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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin' EagleĀ® Road KingĀ® => Topic started by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:26:07 AM

Title: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:26:07 AM
On Nov 11, 2007 I posted about looking into options to upgrade my 110 ci motor or perhaps make it a 117/124 ci motor. I was incline to stay with the 110 based on cost. However on Nov 19, 2007 the rear cylinder liner had moved causing the dreaded leak so new Axtell cylinders became a much more acceptable answer for me. See the below for details of my first 117 build:
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=17921.0

So after chasing after a number of possible causes of why my build was not making the power it should,(101 hp / 116 tq) I have decided to try the build recommended by my builder (and Chip in the first response to my original post) and go with T-Man. I am not flaming anyone for my first build. It is what it is and I'm moving on!

Here is what I plan for this build:
Axtell 117 cylinders, diamond cut
  T-Man Stage 3 Street Elite heads w/ 1.940 intake 1.615 exhaust, diamond cut, thermal coated
  JE 4.135 flat top pistons, thermal coated
  T-Man 590 cams
  SE 58mm TB w/ Pro High Flow Injectors & Pro A/C,  SERT
  CR performance lifters, SE adjustable pushrods, roller rockers & rocker arm support, Chrome billet lifter covers
  SE Billet Cam Support Plate, Torrington full coverage bearings
  Dark Horse Pro Plug crank, Timken bearing
  AIM VP92T
  D&D Fat Cats w Big Boar Q baffles, thermal coated
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:30:23 AM
T-Man insisted the cylinders be checked as he was certain they would be out of round. After checking them, they will be bored and honed and I will be using 4.135" JE flat top thermal coated pistons as the cylinders were .006 off. The cylinders were measured and machined in torque plates. TR (T-Man) talked with my builder Roger on this issue. Afterward, TR told me Roger knows what he is doing so there was no reason to send the cylinders to him.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:32:18 AM
The SE billet cam plate, oil pump and related parts all looked like new upon disassembly. I had over 10,000 miles on the first build.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:35:16 AM
I am going with manual compression releases to simplify the motor. This is one of the T-Man heads back from the powder coater. The color was off, for the second time, so I'm painting them instead. Then I'll have them diamond cut and thermal coated.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:38:51 AM
Upon disassembly, we learned one of the thermal coated pistons experience some flaking of the coating. Wes at Cycle Rama had it recoated and sent back to me at no charge. Thanks Wes. If anyone is interested in these pistons, drop me a pm. For some reason my girlfriend does not think they're "necessarily" living room decorations. What's up with that? :nixweiss:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:41:56 AM
Based on my discussions on my build with TR, I'm have replaced my Rinehart True Duals with D&D Fat Cats with the Big Boar Q baffles. I also sent them into Jet Hot to be thermal coated.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 09:44:52 AM
The T-Man 590 cams are already installed. Once I get the heads diamond cut / thermal coated she'll go back together quickly. I'm tired of seeing my scooter look like this every winter.

And with my 84 FXR being restored and my daughter has the Fat Boy, I'm without a scooter! :'(

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on March 17, 2009, 09:49:47 AM
The T-Man 590 cams are already installed. Once I get the heads diamond cut / thermal coated she'll go back together quickly. I'm tired of seeing my scooter look like this every winter.

JW
The only thing I can think to say Jeff, is,   :uhoh2:   :vrolijk27:   :rolleyes3:  Good luck brother!!!!
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 17, 2009, 10:13:06 AM
Thanks Howie. I'll get this right one way or another. It is just a motor after all.
I've talked with Chip. He has always had great results with T-Man. I should have listened to my builder in the 1st place. Sometimes I out smart myself. LOL. My builder is cutting me a great deal as he feels for me, and I bring in some more customers from my neck of the woods.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: SBB on March 17, 2009, 11:42:27 AM
Thanks Howie. I'll get this right one way or another. It is just a motor after all.
I've talked with Chip. He has always had great results with T-Man. I should have listened to my builder in the 1st place. Sometimes I out smart myself. LOL. My builder is cutting me a great deal as he feels for me, and I bring in some more customers from my neck of the woods.

JW


Jeff

Good luck buddy. I have never heard a bad word about Tman parts or work.
He has a great rep.
Even Jim, hd-dude uses his stuff.
So hopefully you will get it back together and the weather will be your only excuse for not riding.
Keep us informed.

 :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: harleyteam on March 17, 2009, 10:29:54 PM
DEJA VU


all this is beginning to sound familiar.

OH MY GOD,,  IS HOIST POSTING UNDER AN ALIAS ????????
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 18, 2009, 09:34:53 AM
DEJA VU


all this is beginning to sound familiar.

OH MY GOD,,  IS HOIST POSTING UNDER AN ALIAS ????????

OUCH! That one hurt!  LOL! Doing my bit to keep a small business alive.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: harleyteam on March 18, 2009, 03:41:17 PM
sorry,,  couldn't resist

he hasn't posted in awhile, but I'll bet he fell out of his chair laughin his a-s off at that post.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: RayG on March 19, 2009, 12:08:26 PM
Jeff,

Once again I'm following your build closely as it will be my turn either next winter or if I have a failure of some type this riding season. Any idea on what caused the Axtell cylinders to go out of round? I have always heard the two most consistent and bullet proof parts of a build similar to yours is the Darkhorse crank and Axtell cylinders. I hope the end results exceed your expectations, your due for a good return on your time and investment. 


Good Luck

Ray G.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on March 19, 2009, 11:49:57 PM
Hey Ray G

Chaz @ Axtell could offer no info on why after 10,000 miles or so they were out of round. I will tell you that I had the guys do a leak down test / compression test on the motor again before tear down. There was no problems with either test. This motor doesn't leak a drop of oil. The cylinders are dead on now!

TR insisted the cylinders be checked...he was right. I'm taking this as a very good indicator of a man that knows of what he speaks.

I rode the builders scooter today, a Road King Custom with a hopped up Jims 120. Went WOT in third gear and the tire was unable maintain it's grip to the pavement. Fortunately I was able to maintain my grip. A very impressive scooter indeed!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 16, 2009, 08:47:52 PM
Back on track. Main man's back and things are starting to move in the right direction.

Since I already thermal coated the D&D header pipe, I went the rest of the way. I'm coating the pistons and heads too.

I located a company named Calico Coating in Denver, N. C. Talked with them at lenght on what I wanted done. Very friendly and knowledgable. They promised a quick turn around of 3 or 4 days from receiving the pistons. They were also $10.00 cheaper a piston than others I check with. I had them put on a Thermal coating on the piston tops, a dry film lubricant coating on the skirts and an oil shedding coat underneath.

This is the JE 4.135 piston as supplied by Axtel
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 16, 2009, 08:48:20 PM
the under side
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 16, 2009, 08:49:09 PM
This is the piston thermal coated and dry lube coated.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 16, 2009, 08:52:53 PM
and the under side with the oil shedding coat
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 16, 2009, 08:57:49 PM
The heads have already been to Susan for diamond cutting to match the job she did on my cylinders. She did them in a day and sent them to Calico Coating for me. She called me when they got there as well as when they were done and shipped knowing I was trying to get this build together. She does great work and is reasonable.

The combustion chamber, valves and exhaust port are being thermal coated and should be shipped Tue/Wed.

In the mean time the cylinders are being fitted to the pistons and will be installed at the beginning of the week. When the heads get there, they will be bolted on, a break in tune installed and we see where we are at.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 22, 2009, 10:48:32 PM
Picked up Lexi (08 SERK) today. Rode her home (160 miles) while a friend trailered my 84 FXR home also. So all the kids are back in the garage. I'm having to baby her right now but I'll get the miles on for the dyno quick.

Initial impressions:

D&D Fat Cat with Big Boar Quiet baffles: not as loud as my old Rinehart T. D. but not quite as nice a sound. Close tho. I like not having the cross over pipe on the left side to worry about with my stubby legs. The ceramic coating works as I felt no heat from the pipe at all. Of course it was 63 degress today.  ;D 

The T-Man 590 cam comes on quick. I can't get on her yet but you can feel the cam is right there. A little louder than the Cycle Rama 595 but she may quiet down some as the parts wear in.

The Diamond Cut heads came out great.

I'll have more later. Taz enjoyed his ride too.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on April 23, 2009, 07:50:19 AM
Picked up Lexi (08 SERK) today. Rode her home (160 miles) while a friend trailered my 84 FXR home also. So all the kids are back in the garage. I'm having to baby her right now but I'll get the miles on for the dyno quick.

Initial impressions:

D&D Fat Cat with Big Boar Quiet baffles: not as loud as my old Rinehart T. D. but not quite as nice a sound. Close tho. I like not having the cross over pipe on the left side to worry about with my stubby legs. The ceramic coating works as I felt no heat from the pipe at all. Of course it was 63 degress today.  ;D 

The T-Man 590 cam comes on quick. I can't get on her yet but you can feel the cam is right there. A little louder than the Cycle Rama 595 but she may quiet down some as the parts wear in.

The Diamond Cut heads came out great.

I'll have more later. Taz enjoyed his ride too.

JW

Congrats Jeff!!! All is well once again. Get those miles on so we can hear about whats lurking below  :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: SBB on April 23, 2009, 08:05:16 AM
Congrats Jeff!!! All is well once again. Get those miles on so we can hear about whats lurking below  :2vrolijk_21:


And again, congrats Jeff.
It's looking good!
Get some miles on it!

         :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Fired00d on April 23, 2009, 08:46:11 AM
Picked up Lexi (08 SERK) today. Rode her home (160 miles) while a friend trailered my 84 FXR home also. So all the kids are back in the garage. I'm having to baby her right now but I'll get the miles on for the dyno quick.

Initial impressions:

D&D Fat Cat with Big Boar Quiet baffles: not as loud as my old Rinehart T. D. but not quite as nice a sound. Close tho. I like not having the cross over pipe on the left side to worry about with my stubby legs. The ceramic coating works as I felt no heat from the pipe at all. Of course it was 63 degress today.  ;D 

The T-Man 590 cam comes on quick. I can't get on her yet but you can feel the cam is right there. A little louder than the Cycle Rama 595 but she may quiet down some as the parts wear in.

The Diamond Cut heads came out great.

I'll have more later. Taz enjoyed his ride too.

JW

Congrats!!!!! Enjoy!!!!!

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 23, 2009, 09:48:47 AM
Congrats Jeff!!! All is well once again. Get those miles on so we can hear about whats lurking below  :2vrolijk_21:

Thanks Howie. Can't wait to see what she's got. Regardless, I'll do like last year...it's riding time. No more laying aroung in the shop. Taz was getting tired of sitting in the garage!

You hear anymore on your SERG? I test rode on yesterday. What a nice platform to cruise on. Just not ready to grow up with a fairing yet. And OMG that is a lot of orange. She's a beauty.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 23, 2009, 09:51:20 AM

And again, congrats Jeff.
It's looking good!
Get some miles on it!

         :2vrolijk_21:

Thanks Chip. It did not take much to love the D&D sound. Reminds me of being at a NASCAR race. Low and mellow! Now to eliminate some of the noise and I'm set. It's already quieting down in just 160 miles.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 23, 2009, 09:54:07 AM
Congrats!!!!! Enjoy!!!!!

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

FireDooD

Thanks, I will. The D&D Fat Cat's with the Big Boar Q baffles are calling out to you. You know you still want them! and they look good to, not so much the rider tho!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on April 23, 2009, 12:23:28 PM
Thanks Howie. Can't wait to see what she's got. Regardless, I'll do like last year...it's riding time. No more laying aroung in the shop. Taz was getting tired of sitting in the garage!

You hear anymore on your SERG? I test rode on yesterday. What a nice platform to cruise on. Just not ready to grow up with a fairing yet. And OMG that is a lot of orange. She's a beauty.

JW
No one told me I had to grow up to ride the SERG  ??? Taz looks good back there, always good to ride with a partner  :2vrolijk_21:  The SILVER SERG ... well I am told 2nd week of May  :nixweiss: We'll see.

Ride Safe,

Howie
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: TimBone on April 23, 2009, 07:08:21 PM
Jeff,
Glad to see you back on the bike!
Looking forward to hearing the results after break in!
Have Fun,
Tim
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: sadunbar on April 23, 2009, 10:25:53 PM
One big huge congratulations to you Jeff!  You look good on her!   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 23, 2009, 10:56:26 PM
One big huge congratulations to you Jeff!  You look good on her!   :2vrolijk_21:

Thanks Scott. And thanks for the advice along the way!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: RayG on April 24, 2009, 11:20:05 AM
Great to see you (both) back together. My questions on the build can wait but what is the procedure you plan to follow for the break in period? I know I would go nuts having all that TQ and not laying into her a few times. As previously mentioned, good luck & I hope you got it nailed to perfection this time. Keep us posted.

Ray G.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 24, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Great to see you (both) back together. My questions on the build can wait but what is the procedure you plan to follow for the break in period? I know I would go nuts having all that TQ and not laying into her a few times. As previously mentioned, good luck & I hope you got it nailed to perfection this time. Keep us posted.

Ray G.

Thanks

I'm keeping her under 3000 rpm for the first 500 miles which will be achieved Sat if not today. Oil change and under 3500 rpm for the next 500 miles. Hope to have her on the dyno next week. I hope this time we nailed it.

Time to ride, I'll cut grass later!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on April 27, 2009, 11:11:51 PM
Got in a day + of riding between rain and family responsibilities. 675 miles. More impressions.

Motor noise: the ticking (valve train noise) has been reduced from when I first picked her up. I'm hoping getting rid of the syn3 for something better may help reduce the noise even further. I'll have them check the pushrod adjustment also.

D&D Fat Cat w/Big Boar Quiet Baffles: they do sound low and throaty. From what little I've gotten on the motor to date, they have a distinctive growl of their own. They are quieter than the RHTD while riding. To me they are louder at idle but quieter the rest of the time compared to the RHTD's. I still miss the TD bark. The D&D chrome is superior to the RH chrome. No noise from the heat shields or brackets.

Jet Hot Coating: the pipes are significantly cooler to the rider. I can still see the pipes in the reflection on the chrome. No bluing. Looks great.

Power: As much as I want to, I'm pampering her. It is probably needless but twice is enough, right Howie? So I think she's going to deliver from glimpses if seen but the prove will be after the tune.

Rear shock: Still leak slightly and bottom a lot. Going to try the Works Street Tracker built for my needs. Cheaper than the Bitubos. Perhaps better than the Progressives. I'll let you know.

Front forks: Going to Traxxion Dynamics in May. nough said!

I hope to get the tuned this week if all goes well and the rain gives me a break. I'll let you know.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 15, 2009, 01:26:40 PM
The saga continues:

Since removing my Cycle Rama heads and cams I have put over 2500 miles on the T-Man build.  Here's what i've observed to date:

The torque comes on significantly faster and stays turned on longer. The motor is at 100 ft lbs before 2400 rpm. This is just over 200 rpm faster than the Cycle Rama kit. She does not drop below 100 ft lbs until 5900 rpm. The Cycle Rama kit dripped below 100 ft lbs at 5300 rpm. This makes the motor "feel" more powerfull than before but the top numbers are very similar. As Just Us Six said after riding her "She's really torquey."

Which of course brings on the horsepower much quicker too. She makes 100 hp by 4400 rpm and levels off and holds at around 114 hp from 5300 - 5900 rpms. The old kit made made 100 horses at 5300 rpm making 101 hp at 5500 rpm.

I'm not much for dyno numbers. I don't care about bragging rights. This is comparing my 1st build (Cycle Rama) to my 2nd build (T-Man) using the same shop and dyno to do both. I know there are many variables that make for changes in the dynos but that's not what I'm posting about, nor do I care! I'm saying the difference to me the rider is this motor is one heck of a lot of fun.

Noise: the T-Man heads do tick more than the SE 110 Cycle Rama heads. But the noise is way down from when I first picked her up.

Exhaust: I still miss my Rinehart True Dual sound. The Fat Cats with the Big Boar Quiet baffles just sound more raspy! I'll give it this riding year to grow on me.

Rear Shocks: the Works shocks worked great on the E. S. trip as well as daily commuting. They were a great investment. Easy to adjust and comfortable to rider and passenger.

Front forks: I'm going to Traxxion Dynamics on May 28 for the AK-20 install. I hope they can adjust them for my purposes as I do not have the front end weight the Ultra / Road Glide bikes have.

Now for the problem. The tech is having a hell of a time with the tune. My bike has been in the dyno room several times trying to get a tune in. The SERT is tossing a couple of codes at the tech that are telling the motor to shut down. There seems to be a problem with my wireless throttle body sensors. He explained all this to me and has talked with the Digital Tech people. So far the problem has not been fixed. The motor will generally idle fine at around 1000 - 1050 rpm. However there will be times where the idle will drop to 900 rpm and be rough. Then on occassion it will be 1200 rpm. The tech has never seen this problem before but believes it is a sensor / ECM issue. They are looking at removing the SERT and installing a Super Tuner on the MoCo dime. I'm dropping her off Monday so they can have her for a few days prior to my Traxxion trip.

She also puked out the air breather on me riding down to E. S. Did this in a traffic jam on I-44 in a traffic jam caused by an accident / broke down car. Cleaned the filter up with Simple Green, rinsed the filter and let it dry and so far have not had a re-occurrance. They are going to track that problem down also.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 15, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
Had to have a little ice cream while waiting for the filter to dry in the sun!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Rooster on May 15, 2009, 02:07:09 PM
Nice report on the motor build, you will like the traxxion front end. You will notice a big difference at first and after awhile it's like it was always that way. No more big dive in the front like stock I think that is the thing I like the best. Good luck with it.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 15, 2009, 02:16:24 PM
Nice report on the motor build, you will like the traxxion front end. You will notice a big difference at first and after awhile it's like it was always that way. No more big dive in the front like stock I think that is the thing I like the best. Good luck with it.

Thanks Rooster

After talking with several guys at the E. S. GTG, my only concern is the AK20's may make the ride a little harsher on a Road King. I'll talk with the techs at Traxxion Dynamics. It's probably just a matter of getting it dialed in.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Rooster on May 15, 2009, 02:44:11 PM
Thanks Rooster

After talking with several guys at the E. S. GTG, my only concern is the AK20's may make the ride a little harsher on a Road King. I'll talk with the techs at Traxxion Dynamics. It's probably just a matter of getting it dialed in.

JW

Yea it seems stiff at first . I was worried about that, but after riding it awhile it is just better. It is such a change from the mushy stock frontend.
I'm sure you'll love it after you have riden it awhile. Get her dialed in.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Rooster on May 16, 2009, 02:22:54 PM
I just remembered, didn't your bike come lowered? That may be why a little stiffer, not sure though.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 16, 2009, 03:35:58 PM
I just remembered, didn't your bike come lowered? That may be why a little stiffer, not sure though.

I've asked the same question? The broucher that came with the bike and all literature I have found says the rear was lowered. However, several have insisted the front is lowered also. Howie says when he had the AK20's installed he raised it an inch to stock Road King height. I have found the part numbers listed both ways.  :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 23, 2009, 11:10:47 AM
The saga continues:

Now for the problem. The tech is having a hell of a time with the tune. My bike has been in the dyno room several times trying to get a tune in. The SERT is tossing a couple of codes at the tech that are telling the motor to shut down. There seems to be a problem with my wireless throttle body sensors. He explained all this to me and has talked with the Digital Tech people. So far the problem has not been fixed. The motor will generally idle fine at around 1000 - 1050 rpm. However there will be times where the idle will drop to 900 rpm and be rough. Then on occasion it will be 1200 rpm. The tech has never seen this problem before but believes it is a sensor / ECM issue. They are looking at removing the SERT and installing a Super Tuner on the MoCo dime. I'm dropping her off Monday so they can have her for a few days prior to my Traxxion trip.

She also puked out the air breather on me riding down to E. S. Did this in a traffic jam on I-44 in a traffic jam caused by an accident / broke down car. Cleaned the filter up with Simple Green, rinsed the filter and let it dry and so far have not had a re-occurrance. They are going to track that problem down also.

JW


While talking with the guys at the shop, I explained several other odd electrical things occurring on my scoot. 1st the remaining fuel / mileage indicator in my speedo is way off. When I have 1 gallon left, the display shows I can go another 103 miles.

The motor shut off like someone turning off a light switch once when I pulled the clutch in. She idled for a couple of seconds just fine then off. Very strange feeling when your 400 miles from home.

Once back home waiting to take her in, the motor is purring along while I'm travelling at 45 - 50 mph. Then I experience a hiccup / stutter for a second then it resumes purring along.

I also noted the turn signals did not alway self-cancel.

The final indicator was the security system went off with my key fob sitting on the bike. When I lifted the fob up, the security system turned off. I rode her into the dealer with no problems on Monday. On Wednesday they called me to ask for my security override code as the fob was not turning off the security system. The code did not work either. The area factory rep was there when it occurred. He has seen this on another CVO. It was either a sensor or the ECM.

After running several diagnostic test, the turn signal sensor was bad. This sensor messed up the timing on my scooter as well as the other items. This was replaced. Everything worked, speedo, turn signals, fob and the idle was perfect. The SM rode my bike a lot as he knew I was going to Georgia Tuesday. Called me Friday morning with the news to pick her up. They were going to do a little cleaning up on the tune to take care of the decel pop and she's ready to go.  :)

Hour later the SM called back. She's back to being the "bike from Hell"  >:( As soon as the hooked the scooter up to fix the decel pop, they got several codes flashing at em. After more testing, the Digital Tech system reports - Replace ECM. They did this test two more times with the same results. Harley is overnighting a new ECM to the shop. The SM insisted the MoCo replace the SERT with the Super Tuner. The MoCo is overnighting the new tuner also. Perhaps this will all be for the best as some believe my tuning problems have been with the Race Tuner and the wireless throttle system.  :nixweiss:

So my trip to Traxxion is off for now. I'm very glad Roger (SM) went to extra mile of checking and rechecking everything. As complicated as the electronic on our bikes has gotten you can never be sure why one thing occurs (such as a idle problem) which leads to other problems (turn signals, speedo, etc) They believe the bad ECM caused the turn signal sensor to go out and not the other way around. However, the replace ecm code did not show up until after the sensor was replace and the tune was being looked at.

I just wanted to pass this along in case someone else starts seeing these problems. I'll up date after the ECM Super Tuner is installed, tuned and I'm on the rode. Sorry for the long winded post!
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 26, 2009, 06:22:57 PM
Roger @ the shop just called me. My scooter is done, again  ???  The new ECM was installed and the SEST installed. The tune is done. Everything was covered under warranty.  ;D  I'm picking her up tomorrow. Let you know  :-\. Just us 6 is coming along for the ride on his pretty O/B SERG.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 28, 2009, 09:03:02 AM
Well I did pick up my scooter. The new ECM is installed. The SEST is tuned and no oil has spewed from her in many test drive miles. A compression test and a leak down test have been done with the the motor appearing to be OK. The oil relief valve has been cleaned up and inspected for the blow by problem. I rode my 84 FXR to leave for a little fine tuning on the S&S carb as she's a little rich.

Just Us Six (Brad) and I leave for home 120 miles away. The bike is clean and shiny. Motor feels strong, still has good low - mid torque. Got on her just a little bit. The clouds were gone, sun is shining. It's a great day. I stop at a Walgreen's to get some sunscreen. Upon returning to the bikes Brads says "You got some oil on your saddlebag." I look and say "No, I got oil on down the whole right side...and a puddle between the pushrods..again!"

A quick call to Roger and Bere. I return to the shop while Just Us Six has family obligations and heads the remaining 100 miles for home.

Upon return to the shop, they are standing there waiting for me in disbelief. They have test ridden this bike on a number of occasions. The S/M has ridden the bike home, 10 miles one way twice. The motor never leaked a drop after they cleaned up the oil relief valve thinking that fixed the problem. I described where and how I road as well as what occurred.

An oil pressure gauge is attached to the motor and quick tied on the engine guard. The bike is started and the motor run through different rpm ranges. Everything appears normal. The tech takes it for a ride following the route I just rode, two lane highway. Approx 45 minutes later he is pulling back in saying over the sound of the motor that the oil pressures is perfect and no leaks. As the motor drops to idle I notice a plum of blue smoke from the tail pipe at the same time the tech is shutting her down. As soon as the motor stops, oil pukes out of the A/C between the pushrods and puddles. I point it out to him as he is getting off. He looks at it then me and says "It's the rings." The S/M comes out. The tech explains what just happened. Roger (S/M) says "It's the rings." It's after 5:00 p.m. so we're done for the day. Roger lets me know I have free gas, meal, etc coming. You can tell they feel like chit. But chit Happens! No one's shooting at me and it ain't raining, so still not a bad day overall.

So the rings will be overnighted to the shop. The bike will be torn down again and inspected, measured and necessary parts ordered. The "Curse of the Jeffs" is alive and well for one Jeff!  :'(  :banghead:  :hyst:

The 84 FXR got me home again, no problems! Old technology has a lot going for it.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on May 28, 2009, 09:27:58 AM
Well I did pick up my scooter. The new ECM is installed. The SEST is tuned and no oil has spewed from her in many test drive miles. A compression test and a leak down test have been done with the the motor appearing to be OK. The oil relief valve has been cleaned up and inspected for the blow by problem. I rode my 84 FXR to leave for a little fine tuning on the S&S carb as she's a little rich.

Just Us Six (Brad) and I leave for home 120 miles away. The bike is clean and shiny. Motor feels strong, still has good low - mid torque. Got on her just a little bit. The clouds were gone, sun is shining. It's a great day. I stop at a Walgreen's to get some sunscreen. Upon returning to the bikes Brads says "You got some oil on your saddlebag." I look and say "No, I got oil on down the whole right side...and a puddle between the pushrods..again!"

A quick call to Roger and Bere. I return to the shop while Just Us Six has family obligations and heads the remaining 100 miles for home.

Upon return to the shop, they are standing there waiting for me in disbelief. They have test ridden this bike on a number of occasions. The S/M has ridden the bike home, 10 miles one way twice. The motor never leaked a drop after they cleaned up the oil relief valve thinking that fixed the problem. I described where and how I road as well as what occurred.

An oil pressure gauge is attached to the motor and quick tied on the engine guard. The bike is started and the motor run through different rpm ranges. Everything appears normal. The tech takes it for a ride following the route I just rode, two lane highway. Approx 45 minutes later he is pulling back in saying over the sound of the motor that the oil pressures is perfect and no leaks. As the motor drops to idle I notice a plum of blue smoke from the tail pipe at the same time the tech is shutting her down. As soon as the motor stops, oil pukes out of the A/C between the pushrods and puddles. I point it out to him as he is getting off. He looks at it then me and says "It's the rings." The S/M comes out. The tech explains what just happened. Roger (S/M) says "It's the rings." It's after 5:00 p.m. so we're done for the day. Roger lets me know I have free gas, meal, etc coming. You can tell they feel like chit. But chit Happens! No one's shooting at me and it ain't raining, so still not a bad day overall.

So the rings will be overnighted to the shop. The bike will be torn down again and inspected, measured and necessary parts ordered. The "Curse of the Jeffs" is alive and well for one Jeff!  :'(  :banghead:  :hyst:

The 84 FXR got me home again, no problems! Old technology has a lot going for it.

JW
Man, sorry to read this Jeff ... but the dealer seems to be working with ya. Come on over to the dark side ... it's easier  :bananarock:

Howie
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 28, 2009, 09:35:16 AM
I had a fleeting thought about a Silver / Blue SEUC. Hit myself up longside the head and I'm OK now. With as much down time as Lexi's had, Im trying to figure out how I got over 18000 miles on her?  :confused5:

The shop is great. They feel as bad as I do. The tech has never had a problem with a build like mine before. Gosh, I love being first in things like this. Happen's to me all the time. As Brad said "Man you got worse luck than me and mine's bad."

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 29, 2009, 02:52:40 PM
OMG!

Just got a call from the shop. Upon inspection of the cylinders, pistons and rings they observed the cylinders are shiny like they have 10000 miles on em instead of under 3000 miles. They re-ground em and measured. They are still straight and measure perfect. The pistons look good. The rings were suspect so they were replaced.

Now the kick in the groin. Two valve stem seals have moved / dropped. They were replaced with Viton valve stems. The motor was fired back up and taken on a test ride. The top was making a lot of ticking noise. So off came the heads again. The T-Man heads intake valve guides have play in them. Both heads have been boxed up and are being returned to T-Man. The guys at the shop did not consider this possibility right away as the T-Man stuff they have used is just been so damn dependable. Once again, I'm a first for them. Never had a cylinder liner move before. First ECM that did the chit mine did. Now the T-Man heads have to be sent back.

Roger is certain TR (T-Man) will stand behind his heads. I'm just trying to figure out how to get rid of this big black cloud.

JW


damn Jeff curse
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on May 29, 2009, 03:16:30 PM
OMG!

Just got a call from the shop. Upon inspection of the cylinders, pistons and rings they observed the cylinders are shiny like they have 10000 miles on em instead of under 3000 miles. They re-ground em and measured. They are still straight and measure perfect. The pistons look good. The rings were suspect so they were replaced.

Now the kick in the groin. Two valve stem seals have moved / dropped. They were replaced with Viton valve stems. The motor was fired back up and taken on a test ride. The top was making a lot of ticking noise. So off came the heads again. The T-Man heads exhaust valve guides have play in them. Both heads have been boxed up and are being returned to T-Man. The guys at the shop did not consider this possibility right away as the T-Man stuff they have used is just been so damn dependable. Once again, I'm a first for them. Never had a cylinder liner move before. First ECM that did the chit mine did. Now the T-Man heads have to be sent back.

Roger is certain TR (T-Man) will stand behind his heads. I'm just trying to figure out how to get rid of this big black cloud.

JW


damn Jeff curse
Hope they found it this time Jeff.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on May 29, 2009, 03:50:19 PM
Hope they found it this time Jeff.

Good Howie

Can you see the cloud from N.Y.?  ???

JW

Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 18, 2009, 01:34:00 PM
GH, I don't know if you can see the cloud but the damn things still here!

Picked up the bike yesterday. T-Man replaced the intake valve guides and went over the valve seats, spring, etc to make certain they are like new. The guys replaced the heads, did some heat cycles for the piston rings gave me the thumbs up and away I went.

For approach 10 blocks when it died as I pulled into the gas station lot. Had a hell of a time restarting it. Hit the compression releases which burnt the pinky. Thought that was strange as T-Man compression releases are capped in plastic. TR removed them when working on the heads and did not put em back in. So the shop put in some the had in the shop while waiting on the T-Man releases to arrive as I wanted the bike back now. They forgot to tell me but it is on the paperwork. No idea why TR did not put them back in.

Still had trouble starting her but finally did. Rode straight back to the shop. Pulled in and told em she's dying when I pull the clutch in. Everyone shakes their head. She only does this stuff when I toss my leg over her. Told to turn her off and Bere will check it as soon as he comes back from a test ride. I turn her off but the speedo is still displaying the mileage. Quick check and I realize the headlight is still on too. So with the ignition switch in the off position, the bike is still on. Several things are tried but the bike remains on regardless of the switch position. Bere leaves for his test ride.

About two minutes later, the speedo / head light turn off on it's own. Try as we might, we can not get the bike to replicate this again. Digital tech hooked up, all is well according to the machine.

Ride her 160 miles in a roundabout way home without issue other than hard as hell to start, needs more rpm to take off and is hot as hell.

This morning, I'm moving the bike in the garage when I realize I do not have the FOB in my pocket. The security system is not working. Start the bike up. She starts right away, no issue at all. Drive her gently seating the rings. She takes off without the need for additional rpm.

Notice after approach 200 miles since picking her up, the tach is not working correctly. Show my idle at 100 - 200 rpm. 6th gear at 75 mph should read around 2750, but is being displayed as 1950 rpm. But the motor is running great. Talk with Roger who remembers speedo problems with her in the past. New speedo/tach ordered.

I'm not sure what electrical problems will show up next but I'm riding her a lot today and tomorrow as I have a planned trip to Ga, Tenn, N.C. starting Monday.  :o

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on June 18, 2009, 04:44:09 PM
GH, I don't know if you can see the cloud but the damn things still here!

Picked up the bike yesterday. T-Man replaced the intake valve guides and went over the valve seats, spring, etc to make certain they are like new. The guys replaced the heads, did some heat cycles for the piston rings gave me the thumbs up and away I went.

For approach 10 blocks when it died as I pulled into the gas station lot. Had a hell of a time restarting it. Hit the compression releases which burnt the pinky. Thought that was strange as T-Man compression releases are capped in plastic. TR removed them when working on the heads and did not put em back in. So the shop put in some the had in the shop while waiting on the T-Man releases to arrive as I wanted the bike back now. They forgot to tell me but it is on the paperwork. No idea why TR did not put them back in.

Still had trouble starting her but finally did. Rode straight back to the shop. Pulled in and told em she's dying when I pull the clutch in. Everyone shakes their head. She only does this stuff when I toss my leg over her. Told to turn her off and Bere will check it as soon as he comes back from a test ride. I turn her off but the speedo is still displaying the mileage. Quick check and I realize the headlight is still on too. So with the ignition switch in the off position, the bike is still on. Several things are tried but the bike remains on regardless of the switch position. Bere leaves for his test ride.

About two minutes later, the speedo / head light turn off on it's own. Try as we might, we can not get the bike to replicate this again. Digital tech hooked up, all is well according to the machine.

Ride her 160 miles in a roundabout way home without issue other than hard as hell to start, needs more rpm to take off and is hot as hell.

This morning, I'm moving the bike in the garage when I realize I do not have the FOB in my pocket. The security system is not working. Start the bike up. She starts right away, no issue at all. Drive her gently seating the rings. She takes off without the need for additional rpm.

Notice after approach 200 miles since picking her up, the tach is not working correctly. Show my idle at 100 - 200 rpm. 6th gear at 75 mph should read around 2750, but is being displayed as 1950 rpm. But the motor is running great. Talk with Roger how remembers speedo problems with her in the past. New speedo/tach ordered.

I'm not sure what electrical problems will show up next but I'm riding her a lot today and tomorrow as I have a planned trip to Ga, Tenn, N.C. starting Monday.  :o

JW
you could try my remedy  ??? just kidding .... it'll work out .... summon the gods of patience my friend.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 18, 2009, 06:22:41 PM
you could try my remedy  ??? just kidding .... it'll work out .... summon the gods of patience my friend.

As a matter of fact. They had a twin to your's sitting outside the front door. God those are gorgerous!

Well went riding again after the rain. With 366 miles on, She started without a problem everytime! The tach is working again. The security system still is not working. She wants a few more rpm at take off but other than that she ran great. Rings are seated so I opened her up some. The trip south is on.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on June 18, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
As a matter of fact. They had a twin to your's sitting outside the front door. God those are gorgerous!

Well went riding again after the rain. With 366 miles on, She started without a problem everytime! The tach is working again. The security system still is not working. She wants a few more rpm at take off but other than that she ran great. Rings are seated so I opened her up some. The trip south is on.

JW
That sounds to be good news .... ride safe .... we'll be waitin for the report  :vrolijk_11: :smilie_staub: :drink:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: SBB on June 18, 2009, 06:57:08 PM
As a matter of fact. They had a twin to your's sitting outside the front door. God those are gorgerous!

Well went riding again after the rain. With 366 miles on, She started without a problem everytime! The tach is working again. The security system still is not working. She wants a few more rpm at take off but other than that she ran great. Rings are seated so I opened her up some. The trip south is on.

JW

Trip south?

To get it tuned, I hope!

Let me know and I will try to meet you there!

SBB
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 18, 2009, 07:00:50 PM
Trip south?

To get it tuned, I hope!

Let me know and I will try to meet you there!

SBB

I'm dropped him a call, so far no response.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: SBB on June 18, 2009, 07:05:17 PM
I'm dropped him a call, so far no response.

JW

For dyno time he's going to refer you to Bryan.
So, , , might as well ask for Brian to get on the schedule.

SBB

 :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: TimBone on June 18, 2009, 09:33:51 PM
Where in NC are you headed?
Anywhere near the east coast...Let me know,
Always have garage space and room to stay.

Tim
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 18, 2009, 10:15:04 PM
For dyno time he's going to refer you to Bryan.
So, , , might as well ask for Brian to get on the schedule.

SBB

 :2vrolijk_21:


I'll do that in the A.M.  Let you know.



Where in NC are you headed?
Anywhere near the east coast...Let me know,
Always have garage space and room to stay.

Tim


We'll be in the area of the Maryville, Tn / Robbinsville, N.C.   Thanks for the offer.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:34:21 AM
Got back yesterday from a 6 day trip in the North Carolina / Tennesse area. Made a trip to T-Man Performance on Wednesday to let TR get a look at my motor as well as Brian for a dyno tune. They told me to arrive at 8:30 a.m. I showed up about twenty after and TR immediately jumped on my scooter and pulled it on the dyno. He immediately noticed the hestitation when trying to get her going.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:35:30 AM
Checking her over they found an intake leak which they immediately took care of.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:38:02 AM
Brian put her on the dyno and worked on the tune for 4.5 hours. It was over 90 degrees but he just keep plugging along.
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:40:50 AM
I also had a couple of visitors that stopped by, GH and SBB. They shot the chit with us which helped to pass the time. GH was riding SBB 01 SERG. Very nice scooter. I got a couple pics of them getting ready to pull out. It was great to meet them!
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:46:02 AM
The end result was a motor tuned better across the board. The torque dip from the Fat Cats is gone. There is not hesitation in her. She is running great. The only problem was getting stuck in traffic for over an hour moving five feet at a time with the temp right at 100 degrees. These air cooled scooters do not like that at all!  >:(

Here's a comparision sheet
The red line is the original tune / the blue line is the T-Man tune.

I got 10 lbs more torque by having the dip eliminated! It was a great trip in spite the heat.

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: SBB on June 28, 2009, 10:12:39 AM



Jeff

Beautiful torque curve!
Over a 100 ft. lbs. of torque at only 2200 RPM!
Outstanding!
Torque is what drives a bagger and you have boat loads!
Congrats!
A trip worthwhile in my opinion.


SBB





And, it was great to meet you!
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: hard10 on June 28, 2009, 11:10:23 AM
... GH was riding SBB 01 SERG. Very nice scooter. ...

Did you enjoy my ride?
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 11:50:54 AM


Jeff

Beautiful torque curve!
Over a 100 ft. lbs. of torque at only 2200 RPM!
Outstanding!
Torque is what drives a bagger and you have boat loads!
Congrats!
A trip worthwhile in my opinion.


SBB






And, it was great to meet you!

Chip

As you know, I was originally coming south for the AK-20 @ Traxxion. But a good tune is more important than a good front end. Thanks for having TR giving us the tour of his facility. The guy forgot more about motors than we all knew collectively!

The trip was certainly well worth the time! See you @ MV!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Rooster on June 28, 2009, 12:06:27 PM
Very nice, got to be fun to ride now. Best part is you have changed all the problem areas of the 110 with much better parts and should be much more reliable with more power too. Now you can do what we all want to do, just ride and enjoy. ;D
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 12:29:11 PM
Very nice, got to be fun to ride now. Best part is you have changed all the problem areas of the 110 with much better parts and should be much more reliable with more power too. Now you can do what we all want to do, just ride and enjoy. ;D

All I was shooting for was a reliable bagger motor making enough power to get it done. That's exactly what TR delivered. He could have made it make more power and torque but I'm not interested in more, just enough and reliable will get it done!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on June 28, 2009, 06:40:07 PM
Did you enjoy my ride?
si senior ...... thankyewverymuch  :huepfenjump3:   :drink:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on June 28, 2009, 06:41:04 PM
All I was shooting for was a reliable bagger motor making enough power to get it done. That's exactly what TR delivered. He could have made it make more power and torque but I'm not interested in more, just enough and reliable will get it done!

JW
Congrats Jeff .... all is good in the world  ;)  :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 28, 2009, 08:15:06 PM
Congrats Jeff .... all is good in the world  ;)  :2vrolijk_21:

Got stuck in traffic and heat for a very long time. She spewed a little oil but other than that, all is good! The farther north we came, the hotter it got. Strange start to summer. However, today it's 80 degrees and beautiful. She ran great all day!


You look right at home with your new scoot!

JW
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: sadunbar on June 29, 2009, 05:34:57 PM
The end result was a motor tuned better across the board. The torque dip from the Fat Cats is gone. There is not hesitation in her. She is running great. The only problem was getting stuck in traffic for over an hour moving five feet at a time with the temp right at 100 degrees. These air cooled scooters do not like that at all!  >:(

Here's a comparision sheet
The red line is the original tune / the blue line is the T-Man tune.

I got 10 lbs more torque by having the dip eliminated! It was a great trip in spite the heat.

JW

Great result, Jeff!  Your patience has finally paid off!   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: T-Man 117 build on my SERK4
Post by: Black Diamond on June 29, 2009, 05:48:14 PM
Great result, Jeff!  Your patience has finally paid off!   :2vrolijk_21:

Thanks Scott. After talking with TR about the RHTD and with the tq dip gone, the Fat Cats are staying. I'm starting to like em anyway. Wonder why they sound better when I let someone ride her than when I'm sitting on her tho?

JW