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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: 3mcam on February 07, 2012, 01:24:03 PM
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Finally got around to changing out my stock SE-255 cams to CR-575 In my 2010 SESG. WOW!!!. What a difference. Not only is the seat of the pants feel significant the top end noise is completely gone. I was at the point at accepting the top end noise. Kudos to CycleRama. Super quiet cams. Still looking for a TTS Tuner in the upstate of South Carolina. Can't wait for a Dyno run.
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Which lifters and pusrods?
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Still looking for a TTS Tuner in the upstate of South Carolina. Can't wait for a Dyno run.
Have you tried a v-tune of any kind yet?
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Which lifters and pusrods?
:2vrolijk_21: What he said
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Have not tried V tune. Yet. Stock lifters, S&S adjustable quickies.
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I am also running the CR-575 cams. Stock lifters and push-rods. Great torque cam and as the OP said nice and quiet running.
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You guys that did the CR575's- any headwork? Did you use the .030 head gaskets?
Did your torque curves move to the right at all?
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Stock heads and gaskets on my bike.
Here is a link to a dyno sheet to give you an idea of the torque curve.... (not my bike)
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44545.0;attach=176612
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Stock Heads and Gaskets also. TTS Tuner and gutted the CAT from my headpipe. Will post Dyno when complete with tune.
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Stock heads and gaskets on my bike.
Here is a link to a dyno sheet to give you an idea of the torque curve.... (not my bike)
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44545.0;attach=176612
Wow, you mean there's a cam for a 110 CVO bike and I can get 100 HP and 120 ft. lbs of user friendly TQ whereby:
I don't have to pull my heads and have them reworked
I don't have to pull my heads to change head gasket thickness
I don't have to wait until 2700 RPM to get 100 ft. lbs. and pretend I like it
The power is comensurate with our 2.79 and/or 2.87 stock gearing
The power has nice carry out to the right as well
The cam runs quiet and is valve train friendly
C'mon gents so far on this thread none of you guys that posted have multiple thousands of posts, is there credibility here? Is this CR-575 cam really worthy of an install in a CVO bike?
Cheers
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Why does someone have to have a certain number of post to be credible. I am taking my SESG with the CR-575's to the tuner Spartanburg H-D this Saturday. He is a week behind so it will be after that and I will post my results, good or bad. And I really will not give a crap if the anyone believes the results or not because they will only be for informational purposes for those who are interested in examining other variations of builds.
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3mcam, congrats on the CR-575 install.
My preceding post was of jest and sarcasm.
I am pro CR-575.
I did the bike in the link that Old Lefty posted.
Again, congrats on the CR-575 install.
You'll like it even better once tuned.
Cheers
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My Apologies Herko. I misinterpreted your post. Although I have only a few post I have read several hundred and reviewed countless dyno charts. In fact it was the dyno chart of the CR-575 that was a factor in choosing those cams. I thank you for keeping everyone informed with your inputs.
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I bought my cams and bearings from Herko. Installed and tuned by BVBOB.
C'mon gents so far on this thread none of you guys that posted have multiple thousands of posts, is there credibility here? Is this CR-575 cam really worthy of an install in a CVO bike?
Cooler running/ no real change in fuel mileage/ Quiet running/ Torque where you need and want it. No need to change push rods.
Yes they are worthy. I wish I was a better writer, maybe I would post more. But when you have a CVO 110 with CR-575 cams you would rather be riding than posting.
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X2
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Why does someone have to have a certain number of post to be credible. I am taking my SESG with the CR-575's to the tuner Spartanburg H-D this Saturday. He is a week behind so it will be after that and I will post my results, good or bad. And I really will not give a crap if the anyone believes the results or not because they will only be for informational purposes for those who are interested in examining other variations of builds.
Way to work up the new guy Herko :P
That cam does seem promising 3mcam- looking forward to seeing your graph.
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Not to hijack the thread but is there any advantages between this CR-575 and an Andrews TW54 ?
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...any advantages between this CR-575 and an Andrews TW54 ?
Rhetorical question??
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Rhetorical question??
Just a genuine request to know. I`m about to install a tw54 ,after looking at the timing of the cr cam, am now second guessing my choice.
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...looking at the timing of the cr cam, am now second guessing my choice.
The advance this cam has is one of its positives (as well as the intake close event) for the drop-in application.
I see statements like [paraphrased] "power comes on about the same place but I have more power on the right..."
When a bike has the ability to cross 100 TQ at 2200/2300 vs. later at 2700...this is more than "about the same" in terms of rider friendly power. Especially with our 2.79/2.87 gearing.
Yes, I'm aware of rider styles, shift preferences yada yada. But, you get the idea.
Sooo many times with our twin cam bikes I've seen the old adage be true...(especially in the drop-in arena) "The cam we think we want and the cam we really want are usually two different cams".
And, no need to mess with swapping head gaskets!
Cheers.
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Just a genuine request to know. I`m about to install a tw54 ,after looking at the timing of the cr cam, am now second guessing my choice.
I just got a tune on my RGC 103 set-up with the 255's, SERT, SE Intake, Power Duals, and Hi Output Mufflers and got a good gain in both, 87 tuned to 93 HP and 102 tuned to 109 Ft.lbs. The reason beyond getting the SE 103 project finished is because I too am thinking about the SE 103 StageIV kit for $1800. New this month, it comes without the tuner as a seperate kit. I have read a ton and I still don't really know how it is gonna feel when a change has been made to the motor. So when the OP brings up a new cam that is like night and day, well my ears are all open. The HD 103 Stage IV kit gets u over to the 110/110 plus, although everything I read is that power all shifts over a few 100 RPMs, this CycleRama cam is of interest cause it doesn't make the move as extreme, but I'm guessing it won't do the peak numbers of the 259E that comes in the SE kit?????
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I just got a tune on my RGC 103 set-up with the 255's, SERT, SE Intake, Power Duals, and Hi Output Mufflers and got a good gain in both, 87 tuned to 93 HP and 102 tuned to 109 Ft.lbs. The reason beyond getting the SE 103 project finished is because I too am thinking about the SE 103 StageIV kit for $1800. New this month, it comes without the tuner as a seperate kit. I have read a ton and I still don't really know how it is gonna feel when a change has been made to the motor. So when the OP brings up a new cam that is like night and day, well my ears are all open. The HD 103 Stage IV kit gets u over to the 110/110 plus, although everything I read is that power all shifts over a few 100 RPMs, this CycleRama cam is of interest cause it doesn't make the move as extreme, but I'm guessing it won't do the peak numbers of the 259E that comes in the SE kit?????
Herko prolly knoes the answer for sure. my guess would be a couple hp differance maybe and tq would be close too. then how much cruising do yo do at 6200 rpm.. most of us ride at say 2300 -maybe 3000 rpm. the 259 is not ready pull real hard quite yet in a big ole bagger. the 575 is already happy and is gonna get you out there and make the pass without tap dancing on the shift lever. that way you can keep picking your nose.. just kiding.
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i have had a 103 stage 3 with 259E cams and this cam produces power at around 3,0000 rpm not good on a bagger. Always had to shift down to get and go. but when did it went. i am new on here just bought my first CVO am very curious on CR 575 cams and the tw -777 cam trying to figure out which one would be the best. am running se 255 at this time with D&D fat cat and a race tunner. very strong but dead at about 4000 rpm. had this bike dynoed and peak TQ was at 3500 rpm. at 4000 dead no more TQ.
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http://www.roadglide.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7741&d=1321237408
Link above is a dyno sheet of 103 with CR575 cam (no head work or thin head gaskets)
Have not seen or read much on the 777 other than they work best with higher compression.
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Very close to where I am at. 3 more hp than my 255's and 2 ft.lbs. tq. The 259E would actually hurt me without more fuel/air than my setup would give it I'm told. The stage iv kit has heads, throttle body, intake manifold, injectors, and some other bits and pieces... That helps with breathing that is supposed to make a 259E work... does the CycleRama cam set need more work, to make it perform at it's best, ie heads, bigger valves, compression increase, etc. as the 259 does or is it a bolt in cam?
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Very close to where I am at. 3 more hp than my 255's and 2 ft.lbs. tq. The 259E would actually hurt me without more fuel/air than my setup would give it I'm told. The stage iv kit has heads, throttle body, intake manifold, injectors, and some other bits and pieces... That helps with breathing that is supposed to make a 259E work... does the CycleRama cam set need more work, to make it perform at it's best, ie heads, bigger valves, compression increase, etc. as the 259 does or is it a bolt in cam?
it will be close down low but on the with all your looking at doing it will begin to pull real good . spend a little moeny on the 575 build and it works much better also. thing is the 575 is for the people that are happen with a good bolt in cam that don't require all the other money to make the 259 work as well. the 575 will do real good also and if you ride like you stole the bike the 259 is prolly your choice, if not and your riding two up and a big ole heavy bagger the 575 in my opinion is a better choice, its all in how you ride not about peak hp where you are at for a splity second before ya bang another gear, and repeat it four more times and its over , when ya want to pass a coule cars in front of you or a big long semi and you don't have a lot of time and don't have time or want to tap dance on the shifter and maybe risk your life. its your call.
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Dyno sheet after tuner. A little disapointed. Was hoping for more torque. Next step new headpipe, headwork and head gasket. Perhap then I'll be were I would like to be.
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Wow!! I guess there are changes that we second guess ourselves about. What happened? This is a 110?
This graph seems low compared to a stock 110? What do u have for pipes, intake and tuner?
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Everything is stock except I gutted the CAT from the headpipe installed a TTS Mastertuner and installed the CR-575 cams's. Can't really expect alot of improvement over stock with just Cam's and a tuner.
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But what was it in stock form? It is supposed to have better numbers than that??
U stated that the seat of the pants feeling is stronger, and that is the most important!
And yeah with the intake and exhaust are reworked it may turn into a rocketship/with a Cummins Turbo Diesel
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Everything is stock except I gutted the CAT from the headpipe installed a TTS Mastertuner and installed the CR-575 cams's. Can't really expect alot of improvement over stock with just Cam's and a tuner.
What we see here is about a 10% increase in peak numbers with similar changes to what you have.
But, the seat of the pants feeling is way better.
8)
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If I'm not mistaken the stock numbers are around 80hp and 95tq. And yes it does feel more responsive when I twist the throttle. I guess my expectations were higher than I realized. I imagine that if there was a magic recipe to obtain exactly what we wanted without knowing what we wanted then everyone would be in the kitchen cooking up some hp/tq.
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If I'm not mistaken the stock numbers are around 80hp and 95tq. And yes it does feel more responsive when I twist the throttle. I guess my expectations were higher than I realized. I imagine that if there was a magic recipe to obtain exactly what we wanted without knowing what we wanted then everyone would be in the kitchen cooking up some hp/tq.
Here is a well tuned 103 with the 255's, I am really surprised the 110 motors were not better than these using the same cams and CNC heads as well????
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I know how you feel. I just got my 2010 from the dyno shop. ( a very good dyno shop ) I got 100 hp and 116 torque. This is after some serious head work, Doherty intake, Rinehart full system. Stock cams and compression. After reading all the post of high gains with just pipes and intakes I was disappointed with the results. But I tell you what, I rode the bike home from the tuners. ( it is winter up here in Canada and it was a mild dry day ) And as I gassed the bike hard through gears getting on the highway thing felt very fast, when I finally looked at the speedo it was buried at 120mph. I was shocked, and blown away at the same time. I never gone that fast in that bike, now the thing effortlessly accelerated to 120 like it was nothing and was still pulling past that. So I am very happy with the outcome of my build. The bike flies, and is very smooth. A huge change from stock. I will wait for a year or two and then go with SE 10.5 pistons, some cam, ( will have to choose between about 20 cams out there ) And the HPI 55 mm TB and injectors. But I am totally pleased with the results. Cheers.
Dyno sheet after tuner. A little disappointed. Was hoping for more torque. Next step new headpipe, headwork and head gasket. Perhap then I'll be were I would like to be.
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Here is a before and after on the same dyno, bone stock 2010 convertible with 900 miles baseline and then after the install of CR575 cams and a Rinehart 2 onto 1 and tts tune. I think these cams rely heavily on having a good flow exhaust system on a motor with no headwork due to the lower exhaust lift. The stock bagger headpipes probably won't cut it. These cams are quiet, powerful, priced more reasonably than Woods and other custom cams as well. Wes Brown at Cyclerama doesn't just pull some numbers out his arse and hope they work, he tests his stuff and has developed this cam through testing.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x188/BVBOB/CCF06032010_00000.jpg)