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Author Topic: The Harley Death Wobble  (Read 51550 times)

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wolfman

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 02:58:33 PM »



Do you believe this?

only going 25 - 30 MPH?

I believe He wrecked and got hurt, but a "death" wobble at 30 MPH?

I need more info on this.....

comparing this to a 90 MPH wobble is not the same thing.

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 03:14:54 PM »



Do you believe this?

only going 25 - 30 MPH?

I believe He wrecked and got hurt, but a "death" wobble at 30 MPH?

I need more info on this.....

comparing this to a 90 MPH wobble is not the same thing.



I agree, Keats.  May have been daydreamin' on the upshift, and pulled the brake instead of the clutch.  I feel sorry for the guy and all, but something just ain't right here.  :nixweiss: Later--HUBBARD
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 05:24:24 PM »

I tend to ride a LOT harder than I should at times here in Arizona. High speed wobble with my '07 SEUC DEFINITELY exists ! I can't speak for others but the factors that make the bike wobble erraticlly are NOT present at 30 MPH or anywhere near that speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry the guy is hurt and sorry the "NEWS" reported it as a "Death Wobble"
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 06:27:19 PM »

I tend to ride a LOT harder than I should at times here in Arizona. High speed wobble with my '07 SEUC DEFINITELY exists ! I can't speak for others but the factors that make the bike wobble erraticlly are NOT present at 30 MPH or anywhere near that speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry the guy is hurt and sorry the "NEWS" reported it as a "Death Wobble"

I saw an SERG last summer that they were.....it's scarry just watching it and I was on my bike. :nervous:  Got the fall away corrected and problem gone.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 07:25:49 PM »

Just this year, there have been numerous reports of the RG's going into a wobble when decelerating and hitting speeds of around 35mph, so I'm not going to say that it can't happen, because it does.  On the '07 and earlier bikes, with the old type frame, there is DEFINITELY a wobble in sweepers, though not every time, and the severity varies. I've felt it going 40 and I've felt it going 90...it seems dependent on the particular circumstances encountered at the time.  If this were not true, then Tru-Trak and all the variations of those type of devices to "brace" the rear swingarm would both not exist, and would be out of business.  The video of the HD on the track pretty much shows what happens...yes, it's a "police" bike, but they don't have any equipment that I'm aware of that makes them any different than a regular bike loaded down for traveling...probably not as much weight, in fact.

I'm not saying that the inherent "wobble" caused this particular crash...it could have been a number of things:  Neck bearing gave up the ghost at a bad time; swingarm bushings; sudden blowout on the rear tire; motor mount breaking at a really bad time, etc., etc, etc.  Or maybe it's like the HD mouthpiece said and the guy had put on some Kury footpegs instead of genuine HD footpegs, or another brand of windshield  ::)  But, the wobble is a known problem...that is an absoulte fact.  I'm not saying that other bikes don't do it either, as mentioned by the HD mouthpiece.

But, I'm not saying it didn't either...nobody will really ever know for sure, as the bike is totalled, and the crash is not on film.  And, IMO, speed may not even be an issue at times, whether going slower or faster.

The swingarm problem seems to have been solved with the new frame, and perhaps with the additional engine mount.  Let's see...the cop got killed in 2003 because of a "wobble", HD got sued and settled in '08...coincidentally, the new frame came out in '09...could have been in the planning stages for 10 years, I don't know, but then again, HD could have been correcting a known issue that they got their pants sued off about, and the cop case is the only one that we actually know about...no telling how many others have been settled with a "no disclosure" clause in the settlement, which is common.  Plus, they lost the contract in Cali to BMW, which surely would provide some incentive to change things.  Who here actually thinks that HD designed and built a new frame for no good reason?  And changed the engine mounting method?  They had to do something about the brakes, as all other manufacturers were leaving them in the dust with ABS, better calipers, etc.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 08:02:08 PM »

My 2011 RGU wobbled on me today at 25 MPH. I was zipping up my jacket so locked cruise and let go of the bars. Instantly wobbled. Simply grabbed the bars.

Couple years ago the ultra went into a wobble at 120 MPH. That was the death wobble. Or as they say in aviation...a near miss
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 08:03:08 PM »

Thats true Terry. I was just telling Kenny Lee about the one on my RG at about...30-35 MPH. My dealer tech told me he likes to tighten the fall away a little tighter and did so with mine and I haven't had it since. Not saying this was the cause of this riders crash, but it can happen at that speed. HOWEVER, mine usually only happened if I removed my hands from the bars.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 08:30:16 PM »

Thats true Terry. I was just telling Kenny Lee about the one on my RG at about...30-35 MPH. My dealer tech told me he likes to tighten the fall away a little tighter and did so with mine and I haven't had it since. Not saying this was the cause of this riders crash, but it can happen at that speed. HOWEVER, mine usually only happened if I removed my hands from the bars.

FWIW: There's a HD BULLETIN out on this issue. Go to the dealer ASAP!!
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 07:53:04 AM »

Thats true Terry. I was just telling Kenny Lee about the one on my RG at about...30-35 MPH. My dealer tech told me he likes to tighten the fall away a little tighter and did so with mine and I haven't had it since. Not saying this was the cause of this riders crash, but it can happen at that speed. HOWEVER, mine usually only happened if I removed my hands from the bars.

I had the same problem with the 09 SERG and posted about it on that board.  Essentially, it happened at around 35 and 55mph while lightly my finger tips the bars or with my hands off completely.  If I hadn't grabbed the bars firmly it would have developed into a "tank-slapper".  The dealer did the requisite tightening of the neck bearing but the wobble still persisted.  They called the mother ship and no solutions were offered aside of the neck bearing tightening exercise.  NOTE: I had my tourpak on throughout all this...when we removed it, THE WOBBLE DISSAPEARED! 

I talked about this with the techs and was still not satisfied about the wobble w/t-pak but the tech told me the MoCo would just end up telling me to NOT ride with my hands off the bars....

Can't argue with that!

Two things to mention here:

1) My tourpak is the Premium King Leather T/P off the 06-07 SEUCs which I believe is heavier than the plastic/fiberglass ones.

2) You'll see printed throughout the owner's manual the statement " failure to (insert statement here) can result in injury or death"...insert ride with both hands on the handlebars...they're a$$ is covered! 
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 08:40:54 AM »


Funny how you can take your hands off the steering wheel of your car or truck without having the front end start doing a vehicular version of a break dance, but god forbid if you even relax your grip on a Harley touring model.  Perhaps Harley, those wonderful folks with our safety in mind at all times, should design grips that actually grab your hands and don't let go anytime the bike is moving?

Still waiting to see someone come out with a good steering damper specifically for the Harley EG and RG (not the trike part).  If Harley doesn't intend to ever fix their front end geometry, then they need to apply a bandaid (damper).

In the meantime, find a competent mechanic and get the head bearings properly serviced and adjusted.  That's the only thing helping to dampen the oscillations currently.  And make sure the wheel/tire/brake combination is accurately balanced of course.


Jerry
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 08:52:52 AM »

Let me just say that everybody should be able to ride without touching the bars......it's done to often on to many bikes.  Why some and not others?  Something in the mfg. is not consistent from one bike to another.  By the way, I have a king tour pack and a rack on top and even when loaded.....it just doesn't make a difference.....no wobble at all. :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 09:02:10 AM »

I agree you shouldn't have it. Just wanted everyone to know that it was only when I let go of the bars. It would also do a little shimmy when I would set the cruise at 30-35 mph and lightly hold the bars with my fingers as Beemer mentioned.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 09:05:19 AM »

I had a terrible wobble on my old Heritage Softail - if you let go of the bars it would go ape sh*t and get worse and worse until you had to grab hold of the bars again.

Turns out it was because I had put "Slime" in the tyres and the tyre had become unbalanced as a consquence. I only discovered this when I changed the front tyre and the problem became cured.

The guy who changed the tyre said that this is a common occurrence as the slime can sometimes thicken and gather in one place - this then has the effect that a tyre balance weight in the wrong place would have.

I don't slime up anymore.

BD
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 09:09:12 AM »

Maybe mine got "adjusted" before delivery since there was a bulletin on it and I didn't get it until the end of January.  Haven't noticed any wobbles yet, and I've taken my hands off the bars at 80 mph just to see how it tracked, but not at lower speeds.  I'm fully loaded this morning headed to Ribfest, so hopefully there won't be any issues.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 09:12:13 AM »

hey Nige, how you been? Yea I had a front tire balance issue on one of my old bikes, when I'd get down to 35-40 MPH the front end would wobble, rebalanced the tire and it went away. On the old frame touring bikes I think you need a brace, I have a Bagger Brace on my 05, made a big difference, Ricor's in the frontend.

Craig
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 09:16:33 AM »

I thought we were supposed to ride with BOTH hands on the grips. Just to be on the safe side, God have mercy!!!! Enough with the cars that don't see us , to add the hands free riders to the mix!!!!!!!! :confused5: :confused5:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2011, 09:23:39 AM »

I thought we were supposed to ride with BOTH hands on the grips. Just to be on the safe side, God have mercy!!!! Enough with the cars that don't see us , to add the hands free riders to the mix!!!!!!!! :confused5: :confused5:

Only do that on the super slab,when I can sit back and relax, and just keep a finger or two on one grip....even then, when I run up on a group of cages, both hands go back on the grips, with two fingers on the brake.  I take no chances when other vehicles are around me.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2011, 09:57:49 AM »

I thought we were supposed to ride with BOTH hands on the grips. Just to be on the safe side, God have mercy!!!! Enough with the cars that don't see us , to add the hands free riders to the mix!!!!!!!! :confused5: :confused5:

There's one in every crowd. >:(            :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

It's one of those "don't try this at home" things. :2vrolijk_21:
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 09:59:24 AM by JCZ »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2011, 10:02:36 AM »

I thought we were supposed to ride with BOTH hands on the grips. Just to be on the safe side, God have mercy!!!! Enough with the cars that don't see us , to add the hands free riders to the mix!!!!!!!! :confused5: :confused5:

Thank you.  Common sense is among us.  Just like riding a bicycle with no hands, a wobble and a fall is the risk you take (Note - I'm not denying that there is actually an issue with the "death wobble" with hands gripping the bars).  Can't blame the machine for that lest you sound like the woman who sued McDonalds after she spilled her coffee because her coffee was too hot.   :oops:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2011, 10:18:29 AM »

Thank you.  Common sense is among us.  Just like riding a bicycle with no hands, a wobble and a fall is the risk you take (Note - I'm not denying that there is actually an issue with the "death wobble" with hands gripping the bars).  Can't blame the machine for that lest you sound like the woman who sued McDonalds after she spilled her coffee because her coffee was too hot.   :oops:

There's a big difference between holding onto the grips to be ready for evasive action and because it's the safe thing to do... and... holding onto the grips because you're afraid to let go, fearing that the bike might spit you off.

On long rides I will set the cruise and ride with one hand (alternating hands), or to clean my glasses, or adjust my helmet strap. I have even ridden for miles with my hands at my sides on the open road, turns and all. While I don't advocate this... it's not out of concern that the bike will go into tank-slapping headshake and slam itself into the pavement.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2011, 10:21:34 AM »

There's a big difference between holding onto the grips to be ready for evasive action and because it's the safe thing to do... and... holding onto the grips because you're afraid to let go, fearing that the bike might spit you off.

On long rides I will set the cruise and ride with one hand (alternating hands), or to clean my glasses, or adjust my helmet strap. I have even ridden for miles with my hands at my sides on the open road, turns and all. While I don't advocate this... it's not out of concern that the bike will go into tank-slapping headshake and slam itself into the pavement.



 ;) :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2011, 10:32:02 AM »


I have even ridden for miles with my hands at my sides on the open road, turns and all.


And that's totally your choice to do that.  But just don't let your estate bring a wrongful death suit against Harley for a "death wobble" if you clearly took that chance, is all I'm saying.   
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2011, 10:45:05 AM »

And that's totally your choice to do that.  But just don't let your estate bring a wrongful death suit against Harley for a "death wobble" if you clearly took that chance, is all I'm saying.   

Unfortunately one of the things our modern society would do to ..... bring a "Wrongfull" suit to bear. SIGH!

Just like the Helmet debate .. my choice leave me alone.

LET THE DEBATE RAGE.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2011, 10:48:53 AM »

And that's totally your choice to do that.  But just don't let your estate bring a wrongful death suit against Harley for a "death wobble" if you clearly took that chance, is all I'm saying.   
I agree. I do not criticize anyone regarding their riding style and skills to do so. But if I want to ride hands free I get on my monocycle.
By the way, My 2011 sergu has not acted out on me yet 2k miles on it.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2011, 10:55:57 AM »

I have experienced the wobble and keeping the steering head bearing tight and a good tire cure most of it. This thing is a two wheeler so be careful

Hands or hand off or on? It's your bike mate drive it like you want to and live or die with your chioces. :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2011, 11:04:12 AM »

Darth.....I hope you know I was just funnin in my reply above. :2vrolijk_21:

Half Crazy makes a valid point also.  It's not a matter of wether somebody rides with one or both hands off of the bars....the point that some are missing is that the bike should not go into a wobble or tank slapper just because you're only holding the bars with one hand or no hands......that all bikes should be created equal especially where this issue is concerned.

Why can some ride their baggers totally stable and others have to hang on with both hands?  And, my observation with two riders on this forum is that wobble happened wether they were holding on to the bars or not.  So the hands on, hands free issue is a mute point and distracting from the point of this topic.  Of course we all know........that's nothing new on here. ;D

It seems to get progressively worse as time goes on, so what's the cause?  And why does adjusting the stearing head bearings/fall away seem to correct it?  My guess is that some bikes are coming out of the factory with the bearing races or the bearings not fully seated and as time goes by, they drop down into place thereby creating slop in the stearing head.  As they further seat, the slop gets worse.  If that's the case.....then it's simply a matter of quality control. :nixweiss:

JMHO
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2011, 11:09:37 AM »

Darth.....I hope you know I was just funnin in my reply above. :2vrolijk_21:


JMHO
:2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2011, 11:42:50 AM »

My 2011 RGU wobbled on me today at 25 MPH. I was zipping up my jacket so locked cruise and let go of the bars. Instantly wobbled. Simply grabbed the bars.

Couple years ago the ultra went into a wobble at 120 MPH. That was the death wobble. Or as they say in aviation...a near miss

Wobbling at 25mph with your hands off the handlebars is not a death wobble. Just about any motorcycle will wobble under those conditions, at least my prior and current bikes would. I would not consider removing my hands from the bars under 50mph and even then it's not SOP and should be considered risky/dangerous.

DH
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2011, 12:17:18 PM »

Wobbling at 25mph with your hands off the handlebars is not a death wobble. Just about any motorcycle will wobble under those conditions, at least my prior and current bikes would. I would not consider removing my hands from the bars under 50mph and even then it's not SOP and should be considered risky/dangerous.

DH


The point is the bikes that wobble at any speed (some as low as 30 mph) with or without holding on to the handle bars.  It's ugly scary when you observe it.....I can't imagine what it would be like to experience it first hand.

I've experienced slight wobble on a couple of past bikes, usually started in a curve at higher speed (50-60 mph) but there are those that it's happening to a much slower speeds and a lot more severe.

I can't help but wonder if somebody that's posted that it hasn't happened to them...or reading this and thinking it....that at some point in the future will experience it.  Of course I would hope that nobody else ever experience it....but if/when it happens, I hope they do post about it.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 12:19:42 PM by JCZ »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2011, 02:02:37 PM »

The point is the bikes that wobble at any speed (some as low as 30 mph) with or without holding on to the handle bars.  It's ugly scary when you observe it.....I can't imagine what it would be like to experience it first hand.

I've experienced slight wobble on a couple of past bikes, usually started in a curve at higher speed (50-60 mph) but there are those that it's happening to a much slower speeds and a lot more severe.

I can't help but wonder if somebody that's posted that it hasn't happened to them...or reading this and thinking it....that at some point in the future will experience it.  Of course I would hope that nobody else ever experience it....but if/when it happens, I hope they do post about it.

Maybe I had crappy bikes in the past. Certainly my old Yamaha Road Star had issues with going in a straight line at 25mph without a firm grip on the bars.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2011, 02:33:16 PM »

I see many good points in this thread.... below are several examples from personal experience

2001 SERG (friends) does wierd things in sweepers.... but the bike has almost 80K... dont think he'd ever done swingarm bushings. There was one instance where it almost bucked him like a bronco, but he saved it.... now it has new bushings, mounts and a bagger brace... and he rides a bit slower now...

2003 Road King (another friend) went into a death wobble while the 3 of us were our horsing around at about 90.... he almost crapped his pants .... traded the bike in. Said he would never ride a bagger again!

2003 Fatboy (mine) wobbled twice: once due to low air pressure in the front tire, and once due to bad neck bearings. The tire was under 30psi and I accept my responsibility in that for not checking air pressure. the neck bearing caught me at 75... with hands off the bars... THAT could have been ugly

2008 FLHX (mine) loose neck bearings from day one (low speed).... day 2 back at the dealer..... fixed, no problems after.

2009 SERG again, loose neck bearings (low speed). front tire cupping so bad it almost tossed me off the bike (hi-speed 80+)... tire replaced under warranty. No problems since

now.... yes, the death wobble exists... is the mocos fault or is it a result of the lack of maintenance? from what I see it looks to be about 50/50...

the other think I do see is those that blame the death wobble for crashes that are operator error related... you know the ones.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 06:48:23 AM by 2009_FLTRSEI3 »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2011, 02:42:45 PM »

The best part of this thread is ...

...where you have people with the Avatar Half-Crazy and Wild Card debating a safety issue :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2011, 03:04:04 PM »

just don't let your estate bring a wrongful death suit against Harley for a "death wobble"

My estate would have to sue Polaris...

67" wheelbase and 33 degrees of rake is not well suited for the tight cone-weave in a parking lot.... but she's as stable as the Queen Mary going straight...
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2011, 03:40:04 PM »

The best part of this thread is ...

...where you have people with the Avatar Half-Crazy and Wild Card debating a safety issue :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 :2vrolijk_21:  Motorcycle safety is one thing...however, extreme sports are my vice, hence the "Wild Card"! 
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2011, 06:27:41 AM »

As JC said the issue here is not "Hands On" or "Hands Off". The simple point of the matter is that the bike shouldn't do it.

I have been on advanced riding courses (on airfields/closed roads) where the instructor would get you to ride the bike over a plank of wood or through a pothole with no hands. This was to show you how stable a motorcycle really is. With no hands the bikes front wheel would shudderas you went over or through the obstacle and then immediately correct itself once you were past. This is basically a point of physics as the gyroscopic effect of the rotation of the wheel automatically makes the wheel revert to it's straight on format.

If the wheel starts to wobble of it's own accord then there is clearly something wrong with it and it should be attended to before a calamity occurs. Nowadays I make it part of my riding to occasionally loosen/slowly let go of the handle bars to make sure that all is running straight and true. My SERK will travel at any speed without me holding the bars with no wobble at all.

Incidentally, on the same advanced course we even tried to wrench the bike off course by pulling on the side of the tank whilst riding with no hands. The bike will not go because of the centrifugal force of the wheels and also the pistons. The pistons also act to keep the bike upright which is why, at very slow speed (slow riding competitions, traffic etc) it is better to keep the revs slightly higher as this will help the bike to stayupright.

BD

P.S. and Einstein never even owned a Harley!!!

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2011, 07:15:45 AM »

Just seems like RG's have this issue more than others. It happened to me on one and I'll never for get it.   It was at 35 mph and just glad it didn't happen while I was going faster  I'm back on my Electra glide and I really don't think about that while riding.  I will say I do read almost everything I can find on here when it comes to this subject.  I'm just waiting for the day they can get it right  :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2011, 07:52:39 AM »

Just seems like RG's have this issue more than others. It happened to me on one and I'll never for get it.   It was at 35 mph and just glad it didn't happen while I was going faster  I'm back on my Electra glide and I really don't think about that while riding.  I will say I do read almost everything I can find on here when it comes to this subject.  I'm just waiting for the day they can get it right  :nixweiss:

Interesting that you would ID the RG since any of the public reports I have seen broadcast have involved Road Kings and Street/Electra Glides. I think you need to group the whole large frame touring class together on this one, of course HD would disagree altogether.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2011, 08:09:46 AM »

Interestingly it is usually the rider that makes matters worse when a "Tank Slapper" starts to occur. Because of the speed that the front wheel starts to move side to side it is almost impossible to correct. By the time the rider is trying to correct the handlebars going in one direction they are already going in the other direction  so the riders attempt to stop it usually results in pushing it further in the other direction. Advanced riding technique would recommend maintaining a gentle hold on the handlebars whilst decelerating until the "Slapping" stops.

A tough call to keep such presence of mind in such a brown pants panicky situation.

BD
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2011, 08:29:11 AM »

Add to the issue of instability on some bikes (yes, it seems like it's much more on the Road Glide since the 09 models have came out.....or at least the majority posted on this forum have been Road Glides of 09 and later) the problem of wheel weights flying off (and denting fenders) on newer models.

What if we're loosing wheel weights and don't even know it?  I can't help but wonder if that's added to the problem.  Somebody posted in the past few weeks that there's been a service bulletin distributed by the MoCo about the chrome wheel weights.....apparently the chrome was breaking loose (surprise, surprise) and the weight will come loose). 

And then there's the added problem of just a huge amount of weights all together on a wheel......where the tire looks like it's just way, way out of balance. :nixweiss:

I believe that all these issues deserve more conversation because we all know the squeeky wheel is the only wheel getting the grease from the MoCo.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2011, 08:43:09 AM »

Interesting that you would ID the RG since any of the public reports I have seen broadcast have involved Road Kings and Street/Electra Glides. I think you need to group the whole large frame touring class together on this one, of course HD would disagree altogether.


Historically, the high speed wobble has been more of a RK and EG issue.  Of course, that isn't surprising to me since the RK and EG have fork mounted windshields/fairings, which feed forces directly into the steering system, versus the frame mounted fairing of the RG.  And then there is the other factor, actual number of each model on the road.  I think you will find there are about a gazzillion more RK's and EG's on the road than there are RG's.

The large number of reports recently about low speed wobbles on the RG's is a different and separate issue.  This one appears to be just more of the same ol' same ol' lack of quality from H-D.  They really don't seem to have much in the way of effective process controls; that's how you get so many undertightened or overtightened fasteners, improper bearing preload settings, etc.  Fortunately, they have a crackerjack group of dealers to catch all the f-ups before the customer takes possession. ???


Jerry
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2011, 10:19:45 AM »

The large number of reports recently about low speed wobbles on the RG's is a different and separate issue.  This one appears to be just more of the same ol' same ol' lack of quality from H-D.  They really don't seem to have much in the way of effective process controls; that's how you get so many undertightened or overtightened fasteners, improper bearing preload settings, etc.  Fortunately, they have a crackerjack group of dealers to catch all the f-ups before the customer takes possession. ???

Jerry

Jerry, I think your observations are correct and I agree.  I do have a thought though on the RG's.

I have an '09 SERG and have had the Fall Away set twice on my bike under warranty.  I know have about 8550 miles on it.  I have of late with losing a saddlebag last summer, been reaching back with both hands to make sure my bags are still there...  I've done this as well as adjusting my pull strap on my sun glasses at in town speeds, less then 45 mph.

While both hands are off the bars, i notice the bars start to wobble and soon get to a point that if I didn't grab them, I'd be thrown from the bike and down it would go.  I think one of the reasons of this on a RG more than RK or EG is that the batwing fairing tends to act as a flywheel and tends to stabilize the handlebars from wind as well.  On the RG bikes, it's just the bars alone with nothing to help stabilize them or to slow them down.

I know that we should not remove both hands at once, but it does happen sometimes and the bike should not take a dump because of it.  They should be stable and not need constant hands on resistance to not start to wobble.  I've also just held on with a couple fingers to see what would happen and guess what, the wobble will start at those slower speeds without any input other than just smooth roads.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2011, 11:03:42 AM »

Jerry, I think your observations are correct and I agree.  I do have a thought though on the RG's.

I have an '09 SERG and have had the Fall Away set twice on my bike under warranty.  I know have about 8550 miles on it.  I have of late with losing a saddlebag last summer, been reaching back with both hands to make sure my bags are still there...  I've done this as well as adjusting my pull strap on my sun glasses at in town speeds, less then 45 mph.

While both hands are off the bars, i notice the bars start to wobble and soon get to a point that if I didn't grab them, I'd be thrown from the bike and down it would go.  I think one of the reasons of this on a RG more than RK or EG is that the batwing fairing tends to act as a flywheel and tends to stabilize the handlebars from wind as well.  On the RG bikes, it's just the bars alone with nothing to help stabilize them or to slow them down.

I know that we should not remove both hands at once, but it does happen sometimes and the bike should not take a dump because of it.  They should be stable and not need constant hands on resistance to not start to wobble.  I've also just held on with a couple fingers to see what would happen and guess what, the wobble will start at those slower speeds without any input other than just smooth roads.

I frequently reach back to check the saddlebags, even the tour pack... and I do the same with my glasses with the lanyard...

I dont recall this moderate speed wobble since the dealer:

1) Adjusted fall away
2) Replaced the cupping D407 with a D408F

Since then its been good... (now I've done it) and I frequently set the CC to maintain speed while doing this....

I am about to replace front and rear tires (front is worn out.. rear has a nail) and put a set or LRB pads on it ... I will ask them to check fall away while they have the front end up and adjust if needed.

Will report back...
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 10:46:27 PM »

I'm thinking that the Road Glide and all touring bike for that matter have the fall away check as part of the "set up" by the dealer before they even put the bike on the showroom floor.  They get paid from the Moco for practically doing nothing anyway and we pay it as well.  I can't see paying $600.00 to have the put a seat or a windshield on.  A little pride goes a long way if someone needs their jobs and customers these days  :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2011, 08:59:34 PM »

Just read an article stating that the wobble tends to be more prevalent when the fuel tank is low.  For those that have experienced the problem the article suggests filling the tank and then try to repeat the previous ride conditions to see if the wobble disappears or at the very least lessens.
The opinion is based on the balance and geometry of the bike.

Could be true?

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2011, 10:23:03 PM »

I can't see that one at all ???
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2011, 08:41:26 PM »

I tend to ride a LOT harder than I should at times here in Arizona. High speed wobble with my '07 SEUC DEFINITELY exists ! I can't speak for others but the factors that make the bike wobble erraticlly are NOT present at 30 MPH or anywhere near that speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry the guy is hurt and sorry the "NEWS" reported it as a "Death Wobble"

You are sadly mistaken my friend. I have a brand new SESG and it does exactly this same thing at 25-35 when decelerating to a stop. There are several posts about this on the FLHXSE topic and others with road glides and other electra glides do it also. It is nothing new or unheard of.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2011, 04:55:38 AM »

Hmmm,

whereas the high speed wobble is an almost ancient topic with all touring models (with road glides it seemed to be less reported but perhaps just because of their lower numbers) at least until 2009, the slow speed wobble (to my knowledge) was previously reported only from road glides and reports started to become more frequent since last year (only very few were imported to Europe before).

But you are the first I read mentioning a new batwing bike to be affected by a slow speed wobble  :nervous:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2011, 10:18:29 AM »

You are sadly mistaken my friend. I have a brand new SESG and it does exactly this same thing at 25-35 when decelerating to a stop. There are several posts about this on the FLHXSE topic and others with road glides and other electra glides do it also. It is nothing new or unheard of.
I think you may be confused about my post..... i was remarking about my '07 SEUC not a SESG.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2011, 10:59:12 AM »

That is an electra glide as is the street glide, standard, ultra, road king, classic , road glide. They all have the exact same frame and steering head rake and trail. The only one with any significant difference is the road glide with frame mounted fairing. The issue seems to be with the steering head bearings or rake/trail  more than the fairing from everything I have read. Some have even claimed out of balance tires, bad wheel bearings and a multitude of other fixes. Nevertheless they do it and in some situations it gets out of control.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2011, 11:12:37 AM »

Sure is a lotta' fuss about "The High-Speed Wobble."  No doubt, I'm one of the lucky ones.  As I stated here, way back, I experienced the "Wobble", once on Ol' Maudie, at about 100 MPH in a very slight sweeping turn to the left.  Wasn't violent, but definitely got my attention.  I went through all the "if it ain't this, it's gotta' be that" BS 'till I was tired of hearing it.  BTW, I don't run Lower-Leg Fairings.  I decided I would just run that "wobble" out of the Ol' Girl.  Rear Tire 40psi, solo or 2-up, Front Tire, 38psi.  She only registers 120 MPH, and she's been there more times than Dale Jr. has lost a Race.  The fact of the matter is, if I keep my big a$$ed left foot on the hi-way peg on the crash bar, NO WOBBLE from 0 to WFO, for any distance, straight line or draggin' the floorboards.  Take my foot off the hi-way peg, she'll start that chit again.  I know some of you Mental Giants will reference my findings as drivel.  Quite contraire.  Come follow me and see, if you can keep up.  8) Later--HUBBARD        
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2011, 06:54:55 PM »

Sure is a lotta' fuss about "The High-Speed Wobble."  No doubt, I'm one of the lucky ones.  As I stated here, way back, I experienced the "Wobble", once on Ol' Maudie, at about 100 MPH in a very slight sweeping turn to the left.  Wasn't violent, but definitely got my attention.  I went through all the "if it ain't this, it's gotta' be that" BS 'till I was tired of hearing it.  BTW, I don't run Lower-Leg Fairings.  I decided I would just run that "wobble" out of the Ol' Girl.  Rear Tire 40psi, solo or 2-up, Front Tire, 38psi.  She only registers 120 MPH, and she's been there more times than Dale Jr. has lost a Race.  The fact of the matter is, if I keep my big a$$ed left foot on the hi-way peg on the crash bar, NO WOBBLE from 0 to WFO, for any distance, straight line or draggin' the floorboards.  Take my foot off the hi-way peg, she'll start that chit again.  I know some of you Mental Giants will reference my findings as drivel.  Quite contraire.  Come follow me and see, if you can keep up.  8) Later--HUBBARD        

you know what?... there might be a little truth in this...

I keep air pressure up.. 40/41 on the RG...no highway pegs though...so I cant comment on that....

LEO have been pretty vigilant here lately, so I've been pretty mellow.

There are days when I feel the need I will open up and havent had a wiggle/wobble yet...

Lets see what happens when I put new front and rear's on her this week... I'm sure that'll jack everything up.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2011, 08:33:01 PM »

 :cherry:
Interesting topic.  While I have experienced a high speed wobble,  it was many yrs ago and on a small bike and not a HD.   However,  I have from time to time,  had the low-speed wobble on my SE Ultra when going 10 mph or less like into a gas station or driveway.

It seems to me that weight (distribution) may pay a critical role in having or (not) having the wobble.   I have heard of riders that have the wobble riding alone,  but do not have it when their wifes are on board behind them. :nixweiss:

The bulk of heavy items should be within the "triangle" and anything outside the triangle should be minimized but with the Touring HD,  it's not clear that this holds true........given the wife on the back or the legs on the highway pegs versus straight down, etc.

For those of you from West Virginia,............the "triangle" mentioned above consists of lines drawn between the axles and the top of the riders head.   Again, most weight should be (within) that triangle.............which means that anything in a tour pak is pretty much totally (outside) of the triangle.  So go figure on the still unknown reason or reasons for the well known ............"wobble". :-\
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2011, 03:18:57 AM »

It seems to me that weight (distribution) may pay a critical role in having or (not) having the wobble.   I have heard of riders that have the wobble riding alone,  but do not have it when their wifes are on board behind them. :nixweiss:

that's my experience too. While solo the "danger zone" started around 100 mph two up was safe even at 120 with my last (05) Road King. But still I never felt really comfortable  :nervous:

Slow speed wobble I never experienced nor even heard of until last year.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2011, 03:36:52 PM »

Can anyone explain the difference between a wobble and a weave? I have had two bikes that either wobbled or weaved (not sure which) when pushed aggressively in a corner.

My '05 Road King wobbled (weaved?) in fast corners no matter what the dealership did to try to fix it. And now, for the first time my '10 FLHTCUSE with about 11,000 miles on it has wobbled noticeably in a freeway sweeper at about 80 mph. My wife was on the back at the time too. Did NOT make me (or her) happy!  >:( I checked the three-swing afterwards and found that, depending on how strong a shove I gave it, it would just start a third swing. I think that sounds too loose based on what I've heard here?

I thought the "new" frame was suppposed to fix all this stuff? Of course my bike has been modified -it has the Harley front lowering springs, and lowered Bitubo's on the rear, so I'm sure the dealership and/or factory won't touch it now. I'm not sure what to do other than adjust the steering head bearings and maybe put the stock suspension back on it? (I'm 5'9" but have a little trouble reaching the ground on off-camber stops with this bike at stock height.) I always keep my tires at the maximum recommended (owner's manual) pressure, my rear tire is new, and the front is a D408 (I think) with about 11,000 miles on it.

Or maybe it's time for a new bike? Seems like every other Harley I've had has experienced this problem. My '98 Wide Glide was fine, my '05 Road King wobbled, my '07 SERK is great (but still battling oil leaks...), and my '10 CUSE now wobbles. If I could afford a new one, I would be tempted to go for it. I'm tired of not being able to trust my bike when I want to ride it hard!  :(
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2011, 10:45:05 PM »

Had a wobble and it went away after the third shop (Metal Dragon) made sure the neck bearings had the proper amount of grease.

The first shop said everything was okay. The second shop said it needed a bit of grease and my front tire was cupped so put on a new tire. Wobble came back the next day.  At Metal Dragon I watched Joe pump in a good amount of grease until it was pumping out the bottom with every squeeze. Problem finally was fixed in my case.

The first two shops observed grease at the bottom of the neck and must have thought because it was there it was full. I think it must have leaked down leaving an air space. At Metal Dragon we wanted to see it actually pump out, and gave it a few extra pumps just for good measure.

Three HD shops got it wrong. Where I purchased it didn't do the setup correctly, where I took it in the first time, and the place that replaced the cupped tire. (Not sure if it was supposed to be greased during manufacturing? If so make it 4.)

To have this type of problem, you would think the grease must be a major expense or it must be labor intensive to have to wipe it off of the bottom of the neck.

With the wobble, I was beginning to hate the bike, but now I really enjoy the ride! Knock on wood.

I've heard of a different wobble than mine as well.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2011, 09:18:57 AM »

On my 2008 Ultra, I've noticed a slight whoable at high speeds (70-90mph) in long sweepers and only while riding solo while my wife riding a 2006 CVO Ultra never has. My Fat Bob has been through all types of extremes up to 120+ MPH and never any signs of a whoable. Over the years, I've heard many whoable stories happening with Harley touring models and all of them seem specific to solo riders, or at least the greatest percentage. With that said, it makes me wonder if the whoable syndrome is tied into the front and rear shocks  :nixweiss: I'm just saying, we know the touring models have whoable issues not prone to all bikes, some do it, some don't.....someone has to figure this out. Mother Harley sure wont
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2011, 10:12:23 AM »



FYI,

this was not a Road Glide.......



Costa said his speed was about 25-30 mph when, "The whole bike started shaking. I had no idea why the bike was vibrating like that, and it wasn't a little vibrating. I never felt anything like that in my life."

"I got this thought in my head I'm going over the ravine, and I don't want to go down," Costa said.

Costa did go down and was flown to a Phoenix hospital, where he coded and then slipped into a coma. Five days later, he awoke with a quadruple compound leg fracture, eight broken ribs and a punctured lung.

His massive Harley-Davidson Road King was totaled.


It was a "massive" Road King...


you have got to love the press, makes the whole story subject to the "hairy" eyeball
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 10:14:05 AM by Keats »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2011, 01:04:58 PM »

:cherry:
Interesting topic.  While I have experienced a high speed wobble,  it was many yrs ago and on a small bike and not a HD.   However,  I have from time to time,  had the low-speed wobble on my SE Ultra when going 10 mph or less like into a gas station or driveway.

It seems to me that weight (distribution) may pay a critical role in having or (not) having the wobble.   I have heard of riders that have the wobble riding alone,  but do not have it when their wifes are on board behind them. :nixweiss:

The bulk of heavy items should be within the "triangle" and anything outside the triangle should be minimized but with the Touring HD,  it's not clear that this holds true........given the wife on the back or the legs on the highway pegs versus straight down, etc.

For those of you from West Virginia,............the "triangle" mentioned above consists of lines drawn between the axles and the top of the riders head.   Again, most weight should be (within) that triangle.............which means that anything in a tour pak is pretty much totally (outside) of the triangle.  So go figure on the still unknown reason or reasons for the well known ............"wobble". :-\


I knew one of those "mental giants" I referred to would speak up.  Triangle, fliangle.  My angle is, where my Ol' Led-Sled is concerned, is all about aerodynamics.  Left foot on the Hi-way Peg, NO WOBBLE.  Left foot on the Floorboard, WOBBLES LIKE A BITCH.   That's an irrefutable fact.  There endeth the lesson.  8) Later--HUBBARD    
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 01:10:30 PM by HUBBARD »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2011, 01:39:02 PM »

I think it's the Hookey-Pookie. :huepfenlol2:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2011, 03:20:23 PM »

Left foot on the Hi-way Peg, NO WOBBLE.  Left foot on the Floorboard, WOBBLES LIKE A BITCH.   That's an irrefutable fact.  There endeth the lesson.  8) Later--HUBBARD   

Hubbard,
I don't understand why my bike wobbles, but next time it does (I'm pretty sure it hasn't fixed itself) I'll try to remember to stick my foot up on the highway peg to see if that helps. It seems reasonable to me that there could be an aerodynamic angle (triangle?) to all this. I do know that slowing down in a corner when it's wobbling only seems to make things progress more toward the tank slapper direction -it only took one try to learn that one!
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2011, 03:48:10 PM »

Hubbard,
I don't understand why my bike wobbles, but next time it does (I'm pretty sure it hasn't fixed itself) I'll try to remember to stick my foot up on the highway peg to see if that helps. It seems reasonable to me that there could be an aerodynamic angle (triangle?) to all this. I do know that slowing down in a corner when it's wobbling only seems to make things progress more toward the tank slapper direction -it only took one try to learn that one!

Makes ya' quit lookin' at the scenery, don't it?  :o I've always replaced the air shocks with Progressive 440HD's on the 3 Ultra's I've owned, also.  The air shocks were just too rigid for me.  Some will say the Progressives I use are out dated, but they work for me.  8) Later--HUBBARD   
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2011, 07:51:37 AM »

What a dork in the start of the video

http://www.kpho.com/local-video/index.html?grabnetworks_video_id=4697488

When he says

Quote
I like it just because its a Harley Davidson


Worrying issues for some Harley owners though
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2011, 07:52:40 PM »

Sure is a lotta' fuss about "The High-Speed Wobble."  "  Come follow me and see, if you can keep up.  8) Later--HUBBARD        

Wont even try to follow. I know who Maudie`s doctor is.
Left boot in the wind. I gotta try it .
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2011, 04:43:49 PM »

Lots of wobble stories on here. Pretty much enough of them to declare a common problem that needs attention. I have the high speed wobble in turns on my '05 SEEg and the "tank slap" on my '11 SERG. I had the tech at the local HD shop take the SERG out for a spin and he came back looking like he had seen a ghost. He said "you said it was a vibration, not a death slap". lol

Opee
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2011, 04:47:19 PM »

Lots of wobble stories on here. Pretty much enough of them to declare a common problem that needs attention. I have the high speed wobble in turns on my '05 SEEg and the "tank slap" on my '11 SERG. I had the tech at the local HD shop take the SERG out for a spin and he came back looking like he had seen a ghost. He said "you said it was a vibration, not a death slap". lol

Opee

Well, that's one way to get their attention, huh?  :huepfenlol2:

At least you know now they're not going to tell you "it's normal".
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2011, 03:06:19 AM »

very disturbing: as of Thursday evening a late 09 FLHTCUSE4 with some 15.000 m got the high speed wobble just out of nowhere. Bike ran 120 mph last year frequently without any problems. Got new tires last week and at the test ride suddenly developed a violent wobble just above 100 mph (solo). 2 of our mechs retried and got scared like hell. Fall away is ok, stearing head is at specs and freshly greased, wheels are perfectly balanced, tires double checked, pressure in tires and shocks at spec, engine mounts ok - cause of the issue still unknown after 2 days in the shop.

It's the first bike with the new frame to show the high speed wobble over here, both dealership and H-D's importers techs are just clueless. They started totally disassembling her Saturday ...
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2011, 09:13:46 AM »

Always hear bout how great the new frame is.  I hope they can figure this out.  Is it time for a True Track?  I'm use one, though I'm on a bike with the old style frame. :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2011, 09:47:50 AM »


If I read that correctly, the bike was fine until immediately after the dealership replaced both tires, whereupon the severe wobble reared it's head on the initial test ride.  Common sense tells us that something happened during that wheel and tire service;  hopefully they will find something simple, like an improperly assembled wheel spacer or damaged bearing, misaligned rear wheel, etc.


Jerry
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2011, 09:51:14 AM »

If I read that correctly, the bike was fine until immediately after the dealership replaced both tires, whereupon the severe wobble reared it's head on the initial test ride.  Common sense tells us that something happened during that wheel and tire service;  hopefully they will find something simple, like an improperly assembled wheel spacer or damaged bearing, misaligned rear wheel, etc.


Jerry


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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2011, 04:41:42 PM »

I have a 2010 SESG with a King Tour Pak added.  On this recent trip I was able to produce and reproduce a substantial wobble at any speed.

Hands off the bars (I know...I know.. bad)... if I step on the rear brake, the front will start to wobble.  Seems as if with rear brake, the front end unloads and sets up a wobble.

Mal
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2011, 01:36:03 AM »

... Common sense tells us that something happened during that wheel and tire service ...

not neccessarily as our friend did a lot of detailing and maintenance himself during winter and disassembled the bike quite a bit. We have riding season since end of march and as it's not his only bike I doubt it did any high speeds solo this year before the tire job. I remember when we rode back from Wroclav together we didn't do over 100 mph because we had a evo with us.

So whatever the reason may be it could well date back to last November.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2011, 09:33:12 AM »

Wont even try to follow. I know who Maudie`s doctor is.
Left boot in the wind. I gotta try it .

Tilley's a hoot, ain't he David?  Now there's a man that can tell you some stories about some "High-Speed Wobble." I don't know of a man that has crashed as many times as he has, and lived to tell about it.  High speed crashes, too.  He'll dam sure put a Motorsickle to the test.  No fear.  Later--HUBBARD      
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2011, 01:39:44 PM »

Tilley's a hoot, ain't he David?  Now there's a man that can tell you some stories about some "High-Speed Wobble." I don't know of a man that has crashed as many times as he has, and lived to tell about it.  High speed crashes, too.  He'll dam sure put a Motorsickle to the test.  No fear.  Later--HUBBARD      

Motorcycle icon in my book. He and old Harry G. got tangled up on the interstate couple of weeks ago.  All ok. Tilley just called it an incident. Like the time he wrapped around a sighn post in canada. lol.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2011, 07:32:20 PM »

our friends bike has been cured: it was the rear engine mount, the litterally last item checked. Exchanged and the wobble is gone. None of the parts showed any wear or damage so it was probably just added tolerance ::)

Might have even been there out of factory as it showed on a Autobahn run solo and he normally uses his Springer for solo runs only. Anyway it's gone  ;)
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2011, 11:36:48 AM »

very disturbing: as of Thursday evening a late 09 FLHTCUSE4 with some 15.000 m got the high speed wobble just out of nowhere. Bike ran 120 mph last year frequently without any problems. Got new tires last week and at the test ride suddenly developed a violent wobble just above 100 mph (solo). 2 of our mechs retried and got scared like hell. Fall away is ok, stearing head is at specs and freshly greased, wheels are perfectly balanced, tires double checked, pressure in tires and shocks at spec, engine mounts ok - cause of the issue still unknown after 2 days in the shop.

It's the first bike with the new frame to show the high speed wobble over here, both dealership and H-D's importers techs are just clueless. They started totally disassembling her Saturday ...

I want to hear what the diagnosis is so keep us informed please. I found a small wobble on the wife's SG in a uphill left hander at 100mph this morning.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2011, 11:52:16 AM »

On the SERK4 I have had the wobble occur on a couple of occassions. It only occurs over 100 mph with the chopped tour pak mounted in the solo position.

On an earlier trip this year I got to ride the same area with and without the tour pak mounted. I could not get her to wobble without the tour pak mounted. I agree with Hubbard; for some of us it's aerodynamics. I have to give her the left foot test next time.

JW
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2011, 06:22:26 AM »

I have a question on this one,,   Why would having the tour pack mounted give it a reason to have the "wobble"? :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2011, 06:45:22 AM »

our friends bike has been cured: it was the rear engine mount, the litterally last item checked. Exchanged and the wobble is gone. None of the parts showed any wear or damage so it was probably just added tolerance ::)

Might have even been there out of factory as it showed on a Autobahn run solo and he normally uses his Springer for solo runs only. Anyway it's gone  ;)
I think that this is the 1st occurance of a rear motor mount causing a 'wobble' that I can remember.  But, good to know so as to check there right away when/if one occurs (and you live thru it).  :-X spyder
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2011, 08:38:19 AM »

I have a question on this one,,   Why would having the tour pack mounted give it a reason to have the "wobble"? :nixweiss:

weight bias front-to-rear change
aerodynamics change

 
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2011, 08:40:18 AM »

I have a question on this one,,   Why would having the tour pack mounted give it a reason to have the "wobble"? :nixweiss:

I know it doesn't make sense and I can't explain it. However, I can reproduce the wobble by simple remounting the chopped tour pak. Happens on deceleration consistently. I do not remember every having the wobble when she's naked.

Half_Crazy maybe right. I'm just passing on my observations fwiw.

JW
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2011, 10:45:19 AM »

weight bias front-to-rear change
aerodynamics change

 
WaaLaa.  :idea: That's why when Hub throws his big boot up on the hwy. peg he's shifting enough weight forward to change the stability of Maudie and the wobble decreases.  spyder
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2011, 11:09:02 AM »

i have 65k on B/B and never even a vibration. Is it that the bike's neck bearings are properly set?  Tho only time I have ever had that happen was on a brand new RGUC.  :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2011, 12:24:59 PM »

Anyone ever try giving the handlebars a good yank both and forth at slow speed (less then 25)?
I can feel what feels like the forks twisting in the trees. Don't even need to do it real hard, just try a little quick back and forth a few inches.

I'm sure what ever allows that feeling is also involved in the high speed wobble.
I have had the whole bike wobble thing on sweeping turns etc, mostly felt like issues in the rear of the bike. Tying the oil pan to the frame seems to have eliminated that.

I have experienced the “death wobble” once at 80 plus. After that I completely understand why it is called the death wobble. And the look of the girl in the car next to me confirmed what I was thinking.
I hope I never experience that again.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 09:03:38 PM by porthole »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2011, 12:58:57 AM »

I HAVE A TRUE TRACK...   never leave home without it :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2011, 09:04:30 PM »

I have whatever the kit is that works withe Baker +1 pan.

I do have a Ride Str8 if someone is interested.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2011, 01:02:06 PM »

My 2011 RGU wobbled on me today at 25 MPH. I was zipping up my jacket so locked cruise and let go of the bars. Instantly wobbled. Simply grabbed the bars.

Couple years ago the ultra went into a wobble at 120 MPH. That was the death wobble. Or as they say in aviation...a near miss

Same thing with mine, set the swing at one and a slight wiggle..problem solved
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #87 on: July 31, 2011, 06:15:41 PM »

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "set swing to 1"?

Just when I get all warm/fuzzy about CVO's I read about a "death wobble".

I have taken my hands off the bars of my 03 ultra to pluck a bug out of my eye or zip up/down jacket, but have never had any probs with tracking.  It always tracked straight as it should since the tires/wheels should act like gyroscopic stabilizers.  My bike tracked straight as an arrow with no hands on.  In one of my motorpatrol classed a few years back the instructor actually recommended to let loose on your grip (without letting go of course) if you get into a wobble since the gyroscopic force will try to keep the wheel in line with the direction you are traveling.  Problem comes in he said when you try to compensate for the wobble and your reaction time is the issue.  By the time you make your correction it's too late and you will make the problem worse by starting and encouraging a "tank slapper".

I also heard from my local dealer that the new frame (not sure which year it was changed in) handles wobbles well and he also mentioned loosening your grip to let the wheels compensate for any wobbles you get into on sand in the road.

Anyone else experienced this problem or anything else to add?  I want to make sure that doesn't happen for sure.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2011, 11:11:47 PM »

I have a question on this one,,   Why would having the tour pack mounted give it a reason to have the "wobble"? :nixweiss:

I have another question: Why run a 2 wheel vehicle >100 MPH?  I mean, I like to ride fast as my 3 tickets in the past year would show but 100 MPH seems somewhat excessive-JMO.  Stay upright brothers/sisters  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #89 on: July 31, 2011, 11:19:06 PM »

weight bias front-to-rear change
aerodynamics change

Well yes, if coupled with loose neck bearings.  But please keep in mind that there are many of us running around on the same model, same year...don't have loose neck bearings and have rode with our bikes loaded (including king tour pack), unloaded, etc. and don't have this problem.  While others, that don't have a tour pack or leg fairings (or do have them), etc. etc. have also experienced it.  I think it has to be in an adjustment.....something that's different from one bike to another.

The common denominator is that when these guys that have the problem finally find a dealership that knows how to check it and adjust it correctly, that the problem goes away.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2011, 11:26:03 PM »

I have another question: Why run a 2 wheel vehicle >100 MPH?  I mean, I like to ride fast as my 3 tickets in the past year would show but 100 MPH seems somewhat excessive-JMO.  Stay upright brothers/sisters  :2vrolijk_21:

Some might ask the same question about the speeds you were going when you got your tickets.  Not trying to be a smart azz, just sayin that it's different for everybody.  I ride 120 mph from time to time but I don't understand those guys riding those Hyubusa's come flying around us at 150 mph, or those that travel 10-15 miles and hour below the speed limit on a twisty road but will not use the turn outs that are provided.......it's all relevant to the observer. :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #91 on: July 31, 2011, 11:32:03 PM »

Some might ask the same question about the speeds you were going when you got your tickets.  Not trying to be a smart azz, just sayin that it's different for everybody.  I ride 120 mph from time to time but I don't understand those guys riding those Hyubusa's come flying around us at 150 mph, or those that travel 10-15 miles and hour below the speed limit on a twisty road but will not use the turn outs that are provided.......it's all relevant to the observer. :nixweiss:

I hear you brother.  It is all relevant to the observer.  I'm waiting for my insurance rates the change (or shal I say "go up").  Take care!
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2011, 11:10:22 PM »

I see this thread is a few months old, but thought I'd reply anyhow.  I've only had this bike a little over a week.  07 CVO Ultra Classic.  And, I've noticed on a few occasions a front end wobble riding by myself. 

I checked the air pressure in the shocks.  They were at "0".  I added 15 lbs of air, figuring that would be a good amount for a 205 lb guy.  This last two days, no wobble so far.  I'm commuting with the bike around 27 miles each way on mostly freeway, so I'll remain vigilent on how it is handling.  It should not wobble at any speed.  I too have the leather, thus heavier trunk.

Any other observations since May? 
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2011, 11:12:21 PM »

I also believe this is why the San Jose Police department went to Honda ST1300s two years ago.  The officers I've talked with didn't like losing their Hogs, but I hear no complaints, now that they are on the ST1300s.

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2011, 03:02:28 PM »

I also believe this is why the San Jose Police department went to Honda ST1300s two years ago.  The officers I've talked with didn't like losing their Hogs, but I hear no complaints, now that they are on the ST1300s.




I would think radios, helicopters, road blocks and stop sticks would quickly fix the problem.

It won't be long before bikes and cars in the future will have a GPS transmitted chip in them from the factory and dealer with the tag number and owner info transmitted to the police tracker just like NASCAR. Then they can skip the high speed chase stuff and either disable the vechicle or pick the violaters up when they get home. 

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2011, 03:16:59 PM »


I would think radios, helicopters, road blocks and stop sticks would quickly fix the problem.
It won't be long before bikes and cars in the future will have a GPS transmitted chip in them from the factory and dealer with the tag number and owner info transmitted to the police tracker just like NASCAR. Then they can skip the high speed chase stuff and either disable the vechicle or pick the violaters up when they get home. 

How would radios, helicopters, road blocks and stop sticks fix the problem of high speed wobble that he's referring to?
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2011, 03:26:32 PM »

How would radios, helicopters, road blocks and stop sticks fix the problem of high speed wobble that he's referring to?

Actually I was referring to your post #90 and the subsequent replys i/e high speed 150 mph Busa's etc.

Regards

Jerry
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2011, 03:57:51 PM »

Actually I was referring to your post #90 and the subsequent replys i/e high speed 150 mph Busa's etc.

Regards

Jerry

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It's easy confusing an old man, Jerry. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2011, 03:59:56 PM »

:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

It's easy confusing an old man, Jerry. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

Try to keep up, JC   :huepfenlol2:  Actually, I didn't know WTF he was talking about either, so we must both be easily confused...reckon?   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2011, 05:30:10 PM »

Try to keep up, JC    :huepfenlol2:  Actually, I didn't know WTF he was talking about either, so we must both be easily confused...reckon?   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

I've heard that before.......but then they keep tellin me I ride to fast.  WTF...talk about confusing? :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2011, 05:35:42 PM »

I've heard that before.......but then they keep tellin me I ride to fast.  WTF...talk about confusing? :nixweiss:


Well I hope you guys are happy. Now there are at least 3 of us who are confused and I don't remember what we were talking about.........   :nixweiss:  :nixweiss:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2011, 07:25:48 PM »

4
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #102 on: September 01, 2011, 01:09:36 AM »

Hey all,

I have a 2000 FXR4 that has the "Death Wobble." Before everyone gets bent; I've been riding for over 40 years and most of that on sport bikes. Never have I owned such a bike that I almost consider it unsafe to ride. The rear "fork" guts are being replaced with the True- Track TRACKULA Touring/FXR Kit. This also includes the True-Track stabilizer. I will soon let you know how it handles after the install.

 
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2011, 08:56:45 AM »

Hey all,

I have a 2000 FXR4 that has the "Death Wobble." Before everyone gets bent; I've been riding for over 40 years and most of that on sport bikes. Never have I owned such a bike that I almost consider it unsafe to ride. The rear "fork" guts are being replaced with the True- Track TRACKULA Touring/FXR Kit. This also includes the True-Track stabilizer. I will soon let you know how it handles after the install.

 

As advised many times on this board.....have them do a fall away check and tighten the neck bearings.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2011, 10:21:08 PM »

Seriously!?  Not trying to offend anyone here, but I thought Harley's put the definition of Cruiser in the motorcycle dictionary; why drive them over interstate speeds in the first place?  Wouldn't that be like taking a '64 Chevy Impala Lowrider and trying to drive it fast as if it were a Dodge Viper?  There are companies that do make motorcycles that go right close to 200mph from the factory if pure speed is your thing (however those companies are not American).
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2011, 10:33:19 PM »

You don't always have to be travelling at excessive (above freeway speed limit) speed to get into a wobble.  Different conditions can set one up when you least expect it if the bike is prone to go into one.  That's been my experience anyway.  spyder
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2011, 10:36:59 PM »

Seriously!?  Not trying to offend anyone here, but I thought Harley's put the definition of Cruiser in the motorcycle dictionary; why drive them over interstate speeds in the first place?  Wouldn't that be like taking a '64 Chevy Impala Lowrider and trying to drive it fast as if it were a Dodge Viper?  There are companies that do make motorcycles that go right close to 200mph from the factory if pure speed is your thing (however those companies are not American).

No offense taken....least not by me.  However, your analagy is a little askew......."a 64 Chevy Impala Lowrider trying to drive it fast as if it were a Dodge Viper" would be more akin to a 64 panhead with a 74" (they didn't make the Lowrider yet) to a 2010 CVO Screamin Eagle Street Glide with 110"........huge difference if you ever rode both! :2vrolijk_21:

But.......just like four wheeled vehicles....some people naturally like to drive fast (the thrill of adventure) and some people just naturally like to go low and slow (lowriders).  I happened to have a Silverado pickup that's bagged and slammed and I drive it fast, too........just because I can.  But..............I still have the safe driver's discount on my insurance. :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2011, 12:23:16 PM »

Seriously!?  Not trying to offend anyone here, but I thought Harley's put the definition of Cruiser in the motorcycle dictionary; why drive them over interstate speeds in the first place?  Wouldn't that be like taking a '64 Chevy Impala Lowrider and trying to drive it fast as if it were a Dodge Viper?  There are companies that do make motorcycles that go right close to 200mph from the factory if pure speed is your thing (however those companies are not American).

It's perfectly reasonable to expect something you paid 20K plus for to be stable and not make you crap your pants by taking it up to 100mph + for a few seconds.  And I wouldn't define a HD bagger as a "cruiser"...it's a touring bike by design, just like a Gold Wing, some BMW's, Star, etc, etc.  Technically speaking, a case could be made for NO vehicle to be able to go faster than 75mph, but that would go over like a turd in the punchbowl for most American consumers.

If the engine is able to get the bike up to 120mph, the rest of the bike should be designed to get there too.  Some of this wobble thing happens at speeds under 50mph...it can be fixed, but it's not something that should happen in the first place.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #108 on: September 02, 2011, 12:51:15 PM »

It's perfectly reasonable to expect something you paid 20K plus for to be stable and not make you crap your pants by taking it up to 100mph + for a few seconds.  If the engine is able to get the bike up to 120mph, the rest of the bike should be designed to get there too.  Some of this wobble thing happens at speeds under 50mph...it can be fixed, but it's not something that should happen in the first place.
What makes this topic so intriguing is that not all Harleys have the issue.  So many factors can contribute to it or even be the cause of a wobble other than tightening the forks/fall away.  Hell, I've seen lots of racing bikes become unstable at speed and go into the death wobble.  That's why many install the fork shock stabilizer.  Trail, wind, tire pressure, weight distribution, on and on..... My SEEG is stable as a rock most times, yet, I've had it begin the wobble in certain situations and scare me wide awake in a instant.  You've got to treat ea. situation/bike differently and not generalize as it's like solving a puzzle ea. time.  spyder
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Half_Crazy

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #109 on: September 02, 2011, 01:05:57 PM »

It's perfectly reasonable to expect something you paid 20K plus for to be stable and not make you crap your pants by taking it up to 100mph + for a few seconds.  And I wouldn't define a HD bagger as a "cruiser"...it's a touring bike by design

Jump on Interstate 95 between North Carolina and Florida... minivans are cruising at 90-95 mph. Not the best road surface in the world, tire ruts, and lots of wind turbulence from tractor-trailers and campers. Just keeping up with traffic without feeling like you'll be run over would put you at what most would consider 'high speeds' in less than ideal conditions. Since this is exactly the environment a touring bike is supposed to be at home in (in fact, the very reason for 6-speed overdrive transmissions) it is perfectly reasonable to expect the bike to perform with confidence inspiring stability in that situation.

On a single-lane road, stuck behing slow traffic, you will of course want to pass. Your visibility ahead, distance to pass, or oncoming traffic may require that you 'get on with it' and it is not unreasonable that you could achieve 100 MPH. You may only be at that speed for a second (accelerating before and decelerating after)... but that is the type of situation that can expose any instability issues... especially if the bike is loaded down for a 6 day ride. It is perfectly reasonable to expect the bike to get this done without getting my heart rate up or making me pee a little bit.

It doesn't matter if the machine costs $10,000 or $40,000, riding a touring motorcycle under touring conditions should be uneventful, right?


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spydglide

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #110 on: September 02, 2011, 01:27:40 PM »

Jump on Interstate 95 between North Carolina and Florida... minivans are cruising at 90-95 mph. Not the best road surface in the world, tire ruts, and lots of wind turbulence from tractor-trailers and campers. Just keeping up with traffic without feeling like you'll be run over would put you at what most would consider 'high speeds' in less than ideal conditions. Since this is exactly the environment a touring bike is supposed to be at home in (in fact, the very reason for 6-speed overdrive transmissions) it is perfectly reasonable to expect the bike to perform with confidence inspiring stability in that situation.



Absolutely.  Great example HalfCrazy.  You don't have to be trying to keep up with Otis, Hub, and the Rocket Riders to reach unstable speeds.  :o har.  spyder
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #111 on: September 02, 2011, 02:07:02 PM »

Very good point HC...those are exactly the situations that happen almost every time I'm on a trip.  When I'm loaded down for a week long journey, and with a very precious cargo sitting directly behind me who is depending on me to be on top of things, I'd prefer the bike not give me reason to pinch washers with my butthole.
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Half_Crazy

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2011, 08:37:23 PM »

I'd prefer the bike not give me reason to pinch washers with my butthole.

When I was a young lad I had a bike go into a severe tank-slapping headshake at 90 mph and spit me off. Now, when I start to feel headshake I get a flashback to that night so long ago... and let me tell ya, it scares me so bad you couldn't drive a toothpick up my azz with a hammer. My bike has to be stable like the freakin' Queen Mary... I can't do shaky. This is why I ride a bike with 67" of wheelbase and 33 degrees of rake out front.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 08:44:03 PM by Half_Crazy »
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kraut

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #113 on: September 03, 2011, 03:55:48 AM »

If the engine is able to get the bike up to 120mph, the rest of the bike should be designed to get there too.  Some of this wobble thing happens at speeds under 50mph...it can be fixed, but it's not something that should happen in the first place.


that's it exactly. Btw, I looked up my old 2001 FLHRCI manual: it states riding the bike over 80 mph is possibly unsafe  ;D
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2011, 09:09:12 AM »


that's it exactly. BTW, I looked up my old 2001 FLHRCI manual: it states riding the bike over 80 mph is possibly unsafe  ;D

Exactly Kraut...same in a cage.  As stated over and over, a cruiser should be stable, period.  If we wanted to be absolutely safe, we wouldn't leave the house.  :nixweiss:

This past eight years, I've been riding Goldwings.  I put the Kury fork brace on the 1500 because of some low speed stability issues when under full load - mostly in parking lots.  It wasn't as pronounced in the 1800, so I never added one. Around 130 on Airline highway (South of Holister, CA) was the top speed for the 1800.  Aside from not wanting to take my eyes off the road for even a second at that speed and the pucker factor, stable as a rock.  Even my 1982 Suzuki GS750EZ could do 125 at over 20 years old - solid.  But only once.  :2vrolijk_21:

This past week on my way into the office at 5:30 AM, I happend upon a RK and we had a bit of a spirited run.  Not racing, just enjoying the ride.  One sweeper curve transition at I85 N onto I280 N (Sunnyvale, CA) the wobble started at about 80 mph mid-curve.  This is the first time it's happened since my last post above, where I'd adjusted air pressure in the tires.  By backing off the speed a tiny bit and relaxing my grip on the outside grip, it balanced out.  I only backed off to around 70 and it was fine. 

Fast Eddie:  I'm looking forward to your report on the Tru-track?  Consequently, it should not take aftermarket products to make the bike stable at any speed. At risk of stating the obvious and flogging that dead horse, MOCO needs to find the cure for this.  It's a serious issue and lives are at stake. 

My theory is; it is a flexing of the forks at a certain freqency, much like tuning forks. There is no fork brace, so they flex, but only when certain conditions present.  Sort of a witches brew...bad juju.

R/S
Ken2


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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2011, 05:23:51 AM »

... only when certain conditions present.  Sort of a witches brew...bad juju.


that's the most frightening part of "the wobble" - once you experienced it you will never feel really safe again  :nervous:
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2011, 05:30:00 PM »

Exactly Kraut...same in a cage.  As stated over and over, a cruiser should be stable, period.  If we wanted to be absolutely safe, we wouldn't leave the house.  :nixweiss:

This past eight years, I've been riding Goldwings.  I put the Kury fork brace on the 1500 because of some low speed stability issues when under full load - mostly in parking lots.  It wasn't as pronounced in the 1800, so I never added one. Around 130 on Airline highway (South of Holister, CA) was the top speed for the 1800.  Aside from not wanting to take my eyes off the road for even a second at that speed and the pucker factor, stable as a rock.  Even my 1982 Suzuki GS750EZ could do 125 at over 20 years old - solid.  But only once.  :2vrolijk_21:

This past week on my way into the office at 5:30 AM, I happend upon a RK and we had a bit of a spirited run.  Not racing, just enjoying the ride.  One sweeper curve transition at I85 N onto I280 N (Sunnyvale, CA) the wobble started at about 80 mph mid-curve.  This is the first time it's happened since my last post above, where I'd adjusted air pressure in the tires.  By backing off the speed a tiny bit and relaxing my grip on the outside grip, it balanced out.  I only backed off to around 70 and it was fine.  

Fast Eddie:  I'm looking forward to your report on the Tru-track?  Consequently, it should not take aftermarket products to make the bike stable at any speed. At risk of stating the obvious and flogging that dead horse, MOCO needs to find the cure for this.  It's a serious issue and lives are at stake.  

My theory is; it is a flexing of the forks at a certain freqency, much like tuning forks. There is no fork brace, so they flex, but only when certain conditions present.  Sort of a witches brew...bad juju.

R/S
Ken2

Just trying to understand the thinking.  In the past few years (at least as far as this forum goes) the large majority of these issues have been on the Road Glide models.  And, the "fix" seems to be to get the dealership to do the fall away and adjust (tighten) the neck bearings and problem is gone.  

If it were forks flexing, wouldn't it be happening to all baggers......or at least all models of baggers equally?  And if that's the case then how is it that tightening the fork bearings cures the problem for so many?

I have to think that it's bearing races that are not being seated correctly at the factory on all the bikes equally.  Some bikes (and I'm not sure why so many Road Glides) go out to the new owner within fall away specs at the time of leaving the factory however, after some time in service, the bearing races finally drop down in place and the neck bearings are then slightly "looser" thereby creating enough slop to allow the wobble.

Maybe we're saying the same thing just diffrent words.   :nixweiss:  We definately agree that it's a serious life/safety issue that the MoCo needs to get behind right away! :2vrolijk_21:
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 05:33:34 PM by JCZ »
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2011, 06:10:12 PM »


Maybe we're saying the same thing just diffrent words.   :nixweiss:  We definately agree that it's a serious life/safety issue that the MoCo needs to get behind right away! :2vrolijk_21:

Right JCZ...just trying to figure it out.  How about the frame braces being marketed.  It sounds like the entire frame is flexing, according to these products...  http://bitchinbaggers.com/products/bagger-brace/

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #118 on: September 18, 2011, 07:00:30 PM »

With an '07 frame, the brace may help.  On some of the old style frames, the rear end wants to steer the bike in certain situations.  It's not consistant across all of them, but enough to sell a lot of those braces in various configurations.
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2011, 07:33:02 PM »

Mine has always done that low speed wabble. only once over 90 and I needed new tires. The neck bearing adjustment dosent solve the problem always. Im pretty sure its tire related. When I have new rubber on it and tire pressure is right its better almost gone. 5k miles its back.  :-\ just gotta remember its there and dont let go. Not right, It shouldnt do that under and circumstances but its there and that is my only bitch about the bike. (well big one anyhow  ;))
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2011, 07:43:44 AM »

I purchased my SERG back in 09 and before I left the dealership, I had a set of Metzeler Marathons installed. I never rode this bike with the stock Dunlops.

Very soon after the purchase I experienced the "tank slapping" at low speeds with hands eased off the bars along with a severe wobble at high speeds deep into high speed corners.

I had the bike into multiple dealerships for service to investigate and resolve. Ultimately one of the service centers claimed the fall off adjustment got it as close it they could get it and there was nothing more they could do...

Following a hunch, I recently had both front and back tires replaced with the stock Dunlops...   and what do you know...  The wobble is gone!  I can quickly release my grip on the bars and they are rock steady... no wobble.  She steers straight as an arrow with no tank slapping...

What a relief!

I wonder... do many folks get stuck troubleshooting this issue because the notion of having to replace the tire(s) is costly along with extremely inconvenient and without knowing with certainty whether or not it will fix the issue... I'm guessing this is the last thing people attempt to fix...   Whether it's poor balancing or a defect in the tire...

All I can say is it worked for me and I'm sorry I waited so long to trust my gut and make the change...   :2vrolijk_21:


BTW, I changed out the Metzelers with 9K miles on 'em.  The rear ME880 was pretty much worn out... however the front looks great; tread depth is barely worn.  If anyone wants the front tire, make me an offer...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 09:32:38 AM by EagleGlider »
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spydglide

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2011, 09:18:36 AM »

BTW, I changed out the Metzelers with 9K miles on 'em.  The rear ME880 was pretty much worn out... however the front looks great; tread depth is barely worn.  If anyone wants the front tire, make me an offer...
Who would want a 'tank-slapper' tire?  :nixweiss: spyder
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2011, 09:28:40 AM »

Who would want a 'tank-slapper' tire?  :nixweiss: spyder


 :oops:  You're right!

I guess I was thinking about it possibly being improperly balanced...   But you're right... never mind... the tire will be disposed of today.

Thanks!

Matt
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2011, 01:24:05 PM »

Took mine into the dealer yesterday because of a faint noise and a cyclic vibration that appeared to be coming from the front end.  This was at its worst around 30 MPH.  Tech rode it and said he thought it had to do with adjustment of the fall away. This was going to be checked at the 20K maintenance (had scheduled for Friday anyway).  Guess I will find out later today. :drink:

Cheers
Bob
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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #124 on: August 22, 2012, 09:52:49 AM »

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Re: The Harley Death Wobble
« Reply #125 on: August 22, 2012, 10:08:06 PM »

I've had my '12 in more than once for the "wobble"... tightened neck bearing.. got better.. but not 100%

Took it back, adjusted again... seemed ok.. just a faint indicator that got progressively worse.

At about 4500 miles I noted feedback in the bars on right sweepers.

At my 5K service I took the bike in and told them the symptoms... told the tech to ride it and where to ride it...

When he came back he called me and asked me: "you were riding it like this?" LOL

The front tire was bad...
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