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Author Topic: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info  (Read 12562 times)

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Ohio HD

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Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« on: November 03, 2013, 05:09:56 PM »

Need some help from our engine builders, or someone who has experience with the Powerhouse 114 motors. We have a top end from a 114 inch Powerhouse. The owner wants to have the cylinders sleeved, as they're worn, and already at +0.030". He has acquired a set of NOS STD. size pistons for this motor, and wants the cylinders repaired, as they can't be bought new anymore.

The thing that I need help with, is the crankshaft. These motors use offset rods, and the cylinders are in line, the pistons and rods small end have a built in offset to accommodate the cranks offset rods, in a standard Harley style case. The problem I see is that his old pistons are cracked in an area that shouldn't "normally" see stress. And I think it's due to the side loading of the pistons with the offset piston / rod combo.

If you look at the inside of the rear cylinder, you see there are three distinct wear patterns at 120 degrees apart, front is the same. What we were able to find out was that these pistons were made by Keith Black, and the have a three point cam ground shape, rather than a standard two point cam grind that pistons see. I think this was to "try" and stabilize the pistons with the offset rods. Just a guess though.

OK, back to the crank. I believe he's going to see the same problem again due to the motors design. What I wanted to find out is, can a Harley EVO crank fit in these motors, if you had the proper length rods made? Of course I'm not presuming that an Evo crank drops right in, but rather what's critical to know is if the left and right side bearings, Timken and pinion side rollers, are the same span side to side as a stock Evo. If they are, an Evo crank can be made to work with a 4.000" stroke, and the weight / balance taken care of.

Or has anyone known to have had the crank rebuilt to HD style male and female rods? Or a custom crank / rods made. We want to be able to give the owner some info to help him end up with a motor that will last. This is twice in not all that many miles that he's had the pistons fail. All the pics below are what we have, the crank pic is from the link shown, as we don't have the crank here.

Thanks
Brian
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:22:51 PM by Ohio HD »
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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 05:10:21 PM »

rear cyl front thrust side

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 05:10:42 PM »

rear cyl rear thrust side

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 05:11:05 PM »

rear cyl & new liner

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 05:11:29 PM »

old rear piston, note cracked skirt

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 05:12:34 PM »

old front piston, note cracked skirt

« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:15:38 PM by Ohio HD »
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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 05:13:02 PM »

note built in offset for side by side rods

« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:32:37 PM by Ohio HD »
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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 05:13:28 PM »

side view of rods

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 05:13:55 PM »

face view of rods

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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 05:14:19 PM »

new rear piston


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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 05:14:50 PM »

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ltank

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 10:19:11 PM »

Midwest made these motors. The Marlborough Man bike had one of these motors. Midwest now makes
Ultima
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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 10:26:19 PM »

Hi, Close, it was Mid Usa that sold these. The design came from Vern Ott, and from what I've learned, the cases were Delkron, crank by Falicon, rods are Carrillo, cams Crane, lifters were Vern's Velva Touch lifters, oil pump was Vern's, pistons Keith Black, that's about all that I've been able to confirm. 

I just hate to see this put back together without addressing the inherent issues.
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HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 10:05:56 AM »

High-flyin' rpm engines if I recall.
They never really seemed to catch on with folks, not saying anything wrong.
A lot of R&D went into these, again, as I remember.
Scott
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Ohio HD

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Re: Need Help With Evo / Powerhouse 114 Crankshaft Info
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 12:24:12 PM »

I don't have any experience with these Scott, was kinda hopping that you did...   ;D

I suspect that the cost, and from what I know from this owner, there are issues with piston life. Original build both pistons cracked, from what he remembered, pretty much the same place as these did. I see two possible solutions to help longevity, one change the crank to an inline HD style, this may help the side loading that appears to be happening to the pistons. Have custom CP pistons made, as these KB pistons are broken right where a very thin section of the piston meets the pin boss. To me best case scenario is change crank to HD style, new custom CP pistons that are cam ground only on the front and rear.

The other concern I have is what effect changing from a babbitt style bearing, to rollers might have on oil pressure. I read where this oil pump was designed to hold around 40 PSI at idle, of course that style bearing needs the pressure.
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