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Author Topic: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time  (Read 61879 times)

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ultrarider123

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OK, here goes nothing.  This is my first posting for anything...ever...anywhere (except for the new member intro on a couple of forums I'm on).  I mainly read and gather information.  I have to post this, however, in regards to the exhaust discussions and hope to help a few of you/us out there that may just want to keep everything stock but want a bit louder exhaust note.

First off, I've been riding/tinkering/repairing HD's for about 25 years.  I've had some great teachers over these years (Larry Poole for one...gone from this world but riding in the next...) and learned quite a bit about carbs, exhaust and such....pretty much enough to make 'em run better.  This fuel injection "stuff" is great for cold, altitude changes, etc but working on it can be a "-itch".  When you change something, you have to buy more stuff to make it run right when you used to be able to modify and then adjust on the carb and it ran like a top.

My focus here is keeping the stock header pipe (yep, with the catalyst in place) but "fixing" the screaming eagle exhaust.  On the stock mufflers that came on the Evo and older bikes, the Company would tack weld in a small plate (a bit larger than a quarter) inside the inlet of the muffler.  This was addressed a few times on a couple of discussions concerning the Fullsac systems and coreing the cat.  A note on the cat issues...while I've removed the cat material plenty of times on some older four wheeled vehicles over the years, I always removed the entire catalyst material, not just opening a hole.  I'm sure this works great for a while but would worry that after a while, the material remaining would eventually break down and clog the exhaust.  It does it all the time on older cars with no modification...the cat aftermarked business is booming for some reason?

As stated, in the past you could take a good size wooden dowel and a good sledge and "pop" the small plate out of the muffler.  You still had good "stock" sound at road speeds but sitting at idle and when you "open it up", it sounds so much better with a very good, deep rumble.  The Company still has to meet the EPA noise regulations even on the factory customs like our CVO's so to meet this, they have to "quiet" the stock screaming eagle mufflers with the modern version of that plate.  The new thing is a tube style "plug" that's now tacked into the exit end of the muffler and believe me, you cannot knock this one out.  You can however dremel it out.

You are now asking why would you want to do this?  Well, if you want to be stock but don't want to spend the money on the Fullsac conversion (good conversion, by the way...I am NOT knocking that option here!) you can bring those SE mufflers back to the way they were suppose to be running.  How do I know this?  Well, if you look at any aftermarket muffler including the SE mufflers and including most cores you purchase, you have an unobstructive view straight through the muffler.  By taking this plug out, you open that SE back to how it should be running and you DO NOT have to change anything else if you choose not to do so.

In my next post for this discussion, I'll supply a picture of that plug in place and removed and, hopefully...if I can figure out how to do it...of the removal process.  I AM NOT suggesting that this is the end all to all the issues with the stock header and the catalyst but it does give you the sound level for folks that still have to pass yearly exhaust testing from our nanny State(s).  OK, here we go....post the picture of the plug installed and removed in a bit.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 07:22:31 AM by ultrarider123 »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 11:48:15 AM »

I've done two of these for two friends and they could not be happier and all it cost them was a good cigar and an adult beverage (AFTER the work was completed...nothing like a good Guiness after working on a bike).  I've got two more scheduled for this week and will attempt to document the removal on one of the next two.

Here's a picture of the plug in place:
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:53:38 AM by ultrarider123 »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 11:49:16 AM »

....and here is a picture of the plug after removal.  See, it's still restrictive even with the holes and such.  This plug causes the exhaust gasses to pass through the packing material in the muffler making it quieter.  But after removal, what a difference!  Again, no modification other than plug removal so if you want the cat removed also, please see the other discussions that address this.  More pictures and instructions to come.  I do have a removal after work this afternoon so, hopefully, I will have instructions and pictures to come tonight or tomorrow.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 01:35:13 PM by ultrarider123 »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 06:31:29 PM »

Okey dokey...here we go.  This first picture is before removing the saddlebags and the mufflers.  I didn't take an after picture because is looks the same as the before.
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 06:33:43 PM »

I don't want to insult anyone as there are many posts on removing the mufflers and saddlebags and most folks know how...no reason to rehash here...so after you have removed your saddlebags and muffler, you can look down the end of the muffler with the end cap.  You can see the plug (as it looks on the one above from the other bike this weekend).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 06:38:14 PM by ultrarider123 »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 06:37:01 PM »

Here's the dremel tool with the reinforced grinding wheel.  They make a diamond wheel which will cut this much faster but the cost doesn't outweigh the operation as this one works fine.  I bought a 5 pack and after three bikes, still have two of them left.  It just fits inside the opening.

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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 06:43:39 PM »

A note here.  I did not remove the heat sheilds nor the end cap from the muffler in this removal.  I did, however, on the first one and realized it was a waste of time.  As you can see, the dremel fits just fine inside the muffler and end cap and actually sits just on the top of the inner tube.  With the Dremel on high, you can rotate the grinding wheel around the inside of the plug cutting a groove.  After 3 or 4 minutes of good, constant pressure, you will here a plop...that's the tube falling down through the muffler body to the other end.  When you pick up the muffler, the plug will fall out.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 07:25:20 AM by ultrarider123 »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 06:45:56 PM »

...and there it is.  An open Screaming Eagle muffler just as the good Lord and Harley meant it to be.

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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 06:55:10 PM »

This is the plug (again).  Simple, easy and cost effective for those of us that really want to keep the bike stock but a bit more sound.  I made a before and after video of this but I have no clue on how to post anything like this.  If I figure that out, I'll post it.  Once this plug has been removed, you can replace the muffler and do the other side.  In all, the first time I did it took about 1 1/2 hours but there were some accessories he wanted installed, too.  This particular removal took about 40 minutes.  Idle is a bit louder but running down the road under normal load sounds....well normal.  When you get on it or start out, it has a mean but very livable, deep growl.  Hope this helps some of you that just want a bit more muscle from your CVO without spending that extra money.  PLEASE NOTE:  I am not attempting to talk anyone out of removing the stock header or doing anything you choose to your own bike...hey, it's your bike!  Just want to give those that choose a different option.
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lilcoot

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 07:09:18 PM »

How well does the stock ECM handle the change?

Does this cause a loss of back pressure and torque?

I would assume the emissions are still within EPA limits?

This doesn't help with any of the heat issues on the 110s, tho.

I'll be interested to hear what the CVO Ninjas (Jerry, Don, Hillside, Dewey's) have to say...
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Boatman

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 07:18:47 PM »

Thanks for taking the time on the muffler write up and pictures.  Takes a while to do.  The mod may not be for everyone but is nice to know there are choices out there.

It would be nice to hear what the bikes sound like after the removal.

Like lilcoot asked, how is the power/torque compared to stock after this is done?
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glens

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 10:56:47 PM »

I would assume the emissions are still within EPA limits?

I doubt it, since the emissions the EPA regulates are both gaseous content and sound levels.
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dartman

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 12:04:34 AM »

Nice clean job but that baffle just came into being on the 2012 CVOs they are vastly different on the earlier models.
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lilcoot

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 12:56:13 AM »

I would assume the emissions are still within EPA limits?

"I doubt it, since the emissions... are both gaseous content and sound levels."

I wouldn't know anything about gaseous content and sound levels!  What are you implying?  :innocent: :blush: :blush: :blush:  :innocent:

Glen, I meant to include you in the list of CVO Ninjas.  Sorry for the omission.  :oops:  You're right, I was trying to just refer to the chemical emissions, but there are a FEW CVOs around with altered sound emissions, too.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 12:58:26 AM by lilcoot »
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ultrarider123

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Re: OK, here's an easy way to modify and keep stock all at the same time
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 08:17:50 AM »

Thanks for all the replies and yep, the 12 CVO's SE mufflers are a bit different than say my old 2009 that had the cat in the muffler.  I looked at all types of ways to fix that issue with the 2009 but as I was happy with the sound the stock system had, I let it go.  I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the '11 has these same muffer plugs.  I'm not sure about the 2010 CVOs.  Also, you are correct in that this change is not for everyone but it's a great option for folks that want a better rumble, stock system that doesn't turn the heads of the public safety officers as you pass them/they pass you on the highway or sitting at a traffic light.  

Glens: I would agree that if your state/city/county tests both exhaust and sound levels, you may not pass the sound level exam.  As this plug removal only opens the SE muffler and does not effect anything else in the system including the O2 sensors and catalyst, the exhaust content would be the same either with the plug in or out.  If you note in the picture of the exhaust tube after picture, the SE muffler inner tube reduces a bit from the inlet to the exit (get's smaller).  It's not a big difference but that along with the plug causes the gasses to pass through the packing material.  Even without the plug, this slight diameter reduction still causes some of the exhaust to pass through the material...hence it still is muffled a bit at idle and highway speed.  So you still may be able to pass the sound level checks depending on the testing criteria.  Also, that stamp on the side of the muffler states EPA approved and unless you take the muffler off and look down the tube from the inlet, you can't see where the plug was removed.  You could not say that about changing from the stock baffle to an aftermarket unit.  You can still argue the point that it's a legal muffler which it actually is.

Lilcoot:  The ECM should not see anything different as the rest of the system remains intact.  The stock computer allows for single changes in the system (as stated many times by folks on this forum and three different dealers/mechanics I've talked with).  As for back pressure and torque.  The plug is there for noise restriction to cause the exhaust to pass through the packing.  If you note the pictures, the plug has holes so even with it in place, there is some exhaust that goes through anyway.  Removing the plug only allows for the noise level to increase.  If you note the other posts with the pictures of the catalyst material, you could use a stove pipe as a muffler and not effect the back pressure as restrictive as that catalyst is.  I've seen no decrease (seat of the pants) in power or acceleration and the fuel mileage is the same.  

Again, very little was changed in this process that would cause any operational issues, just a bit more sweet sound from that CVO. :bananarock:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 08:25:35 AM by ultrarider123 »
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