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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: HDguy on March 15, 2007, 11:33:36 PM

Title: valve train noise
Post by: HDguy on March 15, 2007, 11:33:36 PM
I got a question for you guru's. I just had zippers 575 direct drive cams, protaper pushrods,feuling oil pump,feuling lifters, and feuling cam support plate installed. Other than the whine from the direct drive cams how much other noise will there be? Maybe I am being paranoid (ok I am paranoid) but it seemed/sounded like the valves were making a bit more noise than what I was used to with the scoot in stock configuration. Is that normal and/or will it go away when I get more miles on her?

Oh, by the way I had a big ole chit eating grin on my face driving her home. Those cams really woke her up. ;D
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: ESJ JESTER on March 15, 2007, 11:59:47 PM
Hey  HDguy.  Glad she's pullin more for ya. Maybe a few miles more and a ride back to the wrench for a listen to and re-adjustment :nixweiss:
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: hd-dude on March 16, 2007, 12:14:36 AM
The 575 zippers cam ( or any aftermarket performance cam) will be louder than the stock cams as the lift and duration are taller than stock. You can expect to have additional noise from the valve train. Also the gear whine should be minimal as long as the gear lash and crank runout were checked and within spec.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: CVOJOE on March 16, 2007, 01:10:49 AM
The 575 zippers cam ( or any aftermarket performance cam) will be louder than the stock cams as the lift and duration are taller than stock. You can expect to have additional noise from the valve train. Also the gear whine should be minimal as long as the gear lash and crank runout were checked and within spec.

Yes, but it's a great noise !!! :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: HDguy on March 16, 2007, 02:23:02 AM
Per the mech crank runout was within spec. When I first started up the bike I had the "whine" which I had expected, but when it was at normal operating temp I was hearing some click/clack coming from I believe the valves and was just wondering if that was normal or if I need to have the the pushrods readjusted.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Boatman on March 16, 2007, 07:52:42 AM
With Hd-dude's and 2Lane's help I did the 575 cam install myself.  I have the same components as you except I do not have the feuling cam plate or protaper pushrods (I used the stock cam plate and S&S adjustable pushrods).  I now have 6,000 miles on the cams..   I have had no gear whine since start up at idle or any speed.  I do have a clickety clack type lifter noise when cold or warmed up.  I have adjusted the pushrods for more or less lash with the same noise.  The lash is now set back to S&S recommendations.  I even removed the larger 7/16" S&S adjustable pushrods to check for scrap marks where they go thru the bottom of the heads (there was none).  Bottom line is just ride it as Hd-dude has said.  Either mine has got quieter with the miles or I am just accustomed to it now.  The way it runs is worth it.  Passing on a 2 lane road is a breeze.  (we can't hear your noise, but I would say it is normal).
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Unbalanced on March 16, 2007, 10:30:24 AM
The noise could be coming from lack of clearancing around the rocker box and the valve springs.   You could have some tapping going on there.   The issue is that you would have to remove the rockerboxes to tell or put a stethascope on the rocker box and see if you can hear it.   Those that have had them clearanced have had the issue go away.   I am not saying you have this issue, but you could and it is something to check. 
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: djkak on March 16, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
Yes, but it's a great noise !!! :2vrolijk_21:

Sounds a little like a jackass in a tin barn. :)

djkak
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Hoist! on March 16, 2007, 11:57:43 AM
Sounds a little like a jackass in a tin barn. :)

djkak

Another Hallmark Moment!!! ;) Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Screamin on March 16, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
HD - I just recently did about the same build in my 103 and was wondering the same. Only have75 miles on the new install so I'm planning on riding it for a bit and then stopping back for a little follow up w/ the shop. I've got about the same noise issue and kind of wrote it off to no music and an active imagination. It's reassuring to hear that it's probably nothing and I'll put my paranoia away once I check in with the mechanic.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: HDguy on March 16, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Screamin,  I am going to do the same thing and just ride it for a while and see what happens. The whine at idle is minimal and I don't have any concerns with that. I only hear the click/clack sound when the eng. is fully warmed up and the eng at idle. Other than that it was well worth the money spent  for the cams and other goodies. ;D
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Screamin on March 16, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
Other than that it was well worth the money spent  for the cams and other goodies. ;D

Amen brother. The mid range get up and go impressed the he__ out of me.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: UK Dave on March 17, 2007, 07:48:11 AM
I had the cams, lifters, pushrods and pump done on my '05 SEEG last week - no whine but there is some clatter

It goes to the dyno on Tuesday which should get rid of some "hunting" at 2000 rpms in town and then I will see whether I can live with the noise

Hey, what am I saying?

Of course I can live with it - I'll just turn the music up a tad  ;)

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: displacing air on March 17, 2007, 09:00:31 PM
HD Guy,

I just called and asked another member the same question who has the same setup, ...I was wandering about the click-clack...it just seems loud.

When my wrench put them in...he called zippers about the push rod adjustment...as it seemed weird to him to have hydraulic lifters and adjust the pushrods so far down...that they were almost like solid lifters. But zippers said thats the way to do it. I guess they are going for maximum lift on the valves...

The bike runs great...but the click-clack made me nervous too. After riding a little more and turning the stereo up...I couldnt hear them that much.

Barry
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: SID8D2 on March 18, 2007, 07:42:35 AM
I road my bike bone stock for a year (04). That winter I put in 103+ heads and pistons, 625S&S gear drive cams, roller rockers, ect ect ect. and true duels. Dyno tuned with SERT and only got 100hp and 103 ft lbs. I wrote it off to the V&H true duels. But, the valve train was noisy, I questioned it with the builder but he said its normal. So I road it another 10,000 miles the 2nd season (05) with know problems. That winter back to the shop (different shop). Wanted more. The builder welded up the heads and re machined them changed the cam to a Woods TC400 that is supposed to have more lift yet put a different set of springs in it and changed one of the gears in the gear drive in an effort to remove some noise. It may be a little less noisy down low but the top end still clatters/clans. Added a set of Fat Cat 2 into 2 pipes and dyno tuned this time with 113hp and 115 ft lbs. I road it another 10,000 miles (06).  Do I like the noise...No! But, I'm living with it and my SEEG seems to living with it too. Maybe some day when I need to do a rebuild I will try something other heads and cams without so much lift and see what I get. One things for sure......This 1/2 ton Bagger runs down the road good with 113 hp and 115 ft lbs of tork. Them honda VTX's fall behind whe :jalapeno: :pumpkin:n its go time. Turn up the radio and Ride! 
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Screamin on March 18, 2007, 07:46:50 AM
"No Bar To Far"

Roger that
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: SneakyPete on March 18, 2007, 09:50:20 AM
I have read all these posts with great interest since I have experienced these same noise issues since installing the zipper's 575 gear driven cams last summer.  In addition to the cams, I installed S&S roller rockers, S&S gear drive, S&S pushrods, stock oil pump (shimmed).  Valve train was noisy, the "clickty clack" sound eminating from the rocker boxes I normally associate with mechanical lifters.  My tech (whom I trust) checked after initial break-in and found one of the roller rockers to be defective (i.e. cracked/collapsed cup where the pushrod makes contact with the rocker arm).  Unusual problem, but rockers where replaced at no cost to me.  However, still noisy, checked again, everything appeared to be normal so I just forgot about it, only noticable under 2000 rpm.

In discussions with Zipper's on the subject, I was told that the roller rockers themselves could be the source of the noise and if it really bothered me, I should go back to the stock rocker arms.  However, when they tore down my motor last month for the 120 build I'm doing, my crank was .008 in out of tolerance which, in combination with the gear drive, was the culprit.  All that being said, everyone here has touched on valid causes of valve train noise (crank shaft out of tolerance, insufficient clearance in rocker boxes, etc.).  The bottom line is that you need to check them all to satisfy yourself that everything is OK.  If all checks out, don't worry about it.  Just my .02.

In any event, great posts and sharing of information, nice to know I'm not the only one.  BTW, I am going to reuse the roller rockers for the 120.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Twolanerider on March 18, 2007, 01:39:24 PM
When the 575s went in the red bike one of the things initially noticed was an almost solid lifter type of sound.  It wasn't a big deal to quickly check all the clearances and make sure things weren't bashing in to each other.  All clear.  Just a nice new sound that sounds like it belongs in a good running motor.

When a little more work happened later that included a different set of cams all clearances were all stay good.  The nice rackety-tap-tap sound was still present.  And I'm still happy.  So everyone should do the minimal due diligence necessary to make sure it isn't eating itself.  Then, when it's ok, just enjoy it.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: HDguy on March 19, 2007, 02:27:39 AM
Well I feel better knowing that others are having the same noise and that it must just be the nature of the beast.Like I said before it's not that bad and it is something that I can live with. Thanks for all the reply's. 
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Tros on March 19, 2007, 08:44:14 AM
I road my bike bone stock for a year (04). That winter I put in 103+ heads and pistons, 625S&S gear drive cams, roller rockers, ect ect ect. and true duels. Dyno tuned with SERT and only got 100hp and 103 ft lbs. I wrote it off to the V&H true duels. But, the valve train was noisy, I questioned it with the builder but he said its normal. So I road it another 10,000 miles the 2nd season (05) with know problems. That winter back to the shop (different shop). Wanted more. The builder welded up the heads and re machined them changed the cam to a Woods TC400 that is supposed to have more lift yet put a different set of springs in it and changed one of the gears in the gear drive in an effort to remove some noise. It may be a little less noisy down low but the top end still clatters/clans. Added a set of Fat Cat 2 into 2 pipes and dyno tuned this time with 113hp and 115 ft lbs. I road it another 10,000 miles (06).  Do I like the noise...No! But, I'm living with it and my SEEG seems to living with it too. Maybe some day when I need to do a rebuild I will try something other heads and cams without so much lift and see what I get. One things for sure......This 1/2 ton Bagger runs down the road good with 113 hp and 115 ft lbs of tork. Them honda VTX's fall behind whe :jalapeno: :pumpkin:n its go time. Turn up the radio and Ride! 

If you're referring to the VTX1800, I'm impressed.   ;) 
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: Tros on March 19, 2007, 08:46:26 AM
Since this is a valvetrain thread, can anyone tell me where I can find the Cam specs for the stock 96" Softail engine?
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: electraglidese on March 19, 2007, 05:40:41 PM
I just got done installing the tw5g woods cam fueling oil pump lifters and cam plate on my seeg 103 you want to talk about noise a lot of noise but nice power down low going in for a dyno tune. will post it when i get it. 29k on stock cam chain tensioners and they are in good shape not much ware at all cams looked good and so did the oil pump. Could of gone 50k but now i don't have to wonder when they will ware out.
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: StreetDog on March 21, 2007, 01:32:28 PM
 I'm new to the site and getting ready to have some mild mods done myself, and I know about the rockerbox clearance problems, but what is crank shaft run out. Someone here mentioned that they had .080 tolerance. Is it side to side movement like the crank is moveing in and out, or a front to back wobble like too much play in the bearings or what. Help, I'm studified by all the problems we are left to correct with this new 110 motor!
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: hd-dude on March 21, 2007, 06:26:54 PM
Kingdog;
Crank runout is wobble in the crank. I'm not positive on the tollerance for the 07's but the max runout on the previous TC motors was only .015".  AT .080" there would be some major problems......Here is a pic of it being measured:
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10878.0;attach=19728;image)
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: electraglidese on April 15, 2007, 01:20:54 AM
I just got my bike dyno tuned at Latus in Portland OR woods tw5g cam sampsom rolled oval slip on pipes screamin eagle air cleaner 95hp 110 torq good enough for me max torq at 3500 to 4000rpm max hp at 4800rpm to 5500rpm
Title: Re: valve train noise
Post by: STICKMAN on April 30, 2007, 07:26:08 PM
 :nixweiss:I just had much of the same work done and have a clanking noise. I say it's coming from the reworked heads. My wrench said it's coming from the primary (comp nut). I took off the comp nut. Cleaned both sets of threads and torqued it back with red loc-tite. I have an auto chain tensioner on there and it seems to be doing it's job. The sound it still there. I also have oil coming from the front lower exhaust stud. Thought it might be a blown new head gasket but it's definitely following the threads on the exhaust stud. When you get on it, it's more then just a trickle, it gets all over the fins and the oil filter. Any ideas?