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Custom Vehicle Discussions => CVO™ Limited => Topic started by: Billy on August 30, 2013, 07:05:58 PM

Title: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Billy on August 30, 2013, 07:05:58 PM
Just left my dealer and a guy brought back his new cvo ultra  after 250 miles and it stayed in parade mode and the fans won't turn on First day for him.   Billy
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: BDMastiff on August 30, 2013, 07:53:01 PM
Stuff happens.   Sucks to be that dude.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Puzzled on August 30, 2013, 07:58:46 PM
There was one at Pa Mountain HD Wednesday in service leaking water. The group of us there looking at the bike just had to laugh followed by a "they all do that".  :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Ironhorse on August 30, 2013, 08:51:21 PM
Start keeping notes folks. Lest wise the techs start calling these anomalies and isolated incidents. I hope the HDPHD techs get spun up on all this real fast.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on August 30, 2013, 09:35:07 PM
Got 250 on mine and so far it's perfect!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on August 30, 2013, 10:09:08 PM
My new 2014 'Steaming Eagle' is back in the shop after 318 miles.  The Twin Cooling is not working as it should and the bike is overheating.  Furthermore, the Infotainment system is an epic fail IMHO.  Lipstick on a Pig.  Once I compile all of the details, I will post the pros and cons of the new bike and it's functionality.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: North Georgia Hawg on August 30, 2013, 10:26:54 PM
My new 2014 'Steaming Eagle' is back in the shop after 318 miles.  The Twin Cooling is not working as it should and the bike is overheating.  Furthermore, the Infotainment system is an epic fail IMHO.  Lipstick on a Pig.  Once I compile all of the details, I will post the pros and cons of the new bike and it's functionality.

 :'( Oh Myyyy! Sorry to read this. Hope you get things "ironed out" quickly!

Ken
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Rooster on August 30, 2013, 10:28:40 PM
Rut Roh here we go :'(
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on August 30, 2013, 10:45:01 PM
Got 250 on mine and so far it's perfect!

Hey....what's that cord running to the bike? Is it charging okay?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: BUCKNUT GREG on August 30, 2013, 10:47:23 PM
Hey....what's that cord running to the bike? Is it charging okay?
:ROFLOL:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Ironhorse on August 30, 2013, 11:26:11 PM
My new 2014 'Steaming Eagle' is back in the shop after 318 miles.  The Twin Cooling is not working as it should and the bike is overheating.  Furthermore, the Infotainment system is an epic fail IMHO.  Lipstick on a Pig.  Once I compile all of the details, I will post the pros and cons of the new bike and it's functionality.

I am so sorry to read of your trials and difficulties.

Although I know nothing of the infotainment system other than what is on line, I had a suspicion that it may be troublesome. When one unit interfaces with all sorts of accessories, and does so many things, it can often be more of a curse than a blessing. Sometimes I think the race to make these bikes technologically superior often leads to more problems. And while success is borne of these problems, we, the consumer are often left frustrated and displeased.

The cooling issues remind me of the early efforts of the 70s with electric thermostatically controlled radiator fans in cars. The fans would not kick on as designed, and engines would overheat. Then fans were coming on with the cars parked often killing batteries.

Lipstick on a pig,....more accurate than make up on a HOG I guess.

Please keep us posted.

Mark
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on August 31, 2013, 06:02:57 AM
Bike is charging fine, just wanted to top off the new battery after changing the lights around to make everything led. Not sur why Harley did not put led turn signals on this bike. I put custom dynamics LEDs . Total plug and play.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on August 31, 2013, 06:12:38 AM
Agitator wheels
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on August 31, 2013, 06:18:09 AM
I was very impressed on a couple hundred mile ride yesterday. 91 degrees and sun, the bike was very comfortable to ride, heat from rads is funneled out and around your legs and feet and caused no discomfort at all. I had the cat converter removed before I took delivery.
 I had to stop to make a phone call and left the bike idle, the fans kicked on and seemed to be doing a great job of cooling.
So far it's all good!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: sadunbar on August 31, 2013, 06:48:51 AM
There was one at Pa Mountain HD Wednesday in service leaking water. The group of us there looking at the bike just had to laugh followed by a "they all do that".  :huepfenlol2:

Does that make the new model a "shower head"?  lol....
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: LC110 on August 31, 2013, 07:34:52 AM
Quote
I had the cat converter removed before I took delivery.
What head pipe did you replace it with? Or did you just had it bored out?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on August 31, 2013, 07:48:49 AM
Sure hope your no heat trouble free miles continue! I was/am hoping these changes have done two things:

1. No buffeting
2. No extreme heat
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: TinSpinner on August 31, 2013, 09:02:08 AM
Bound to be a few that have issues, hopefully not all will.

Not to jack the thread but it looks like jaymedics jiffy stand is angled back farther than it should be. Has that changed or is he flirting with danger?

Nice garage BTW, Jay.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Grizzly on August 31, 2013, 09:13:28 AM
There was one at Pa Mountain HD Wednesday in service leaking water. The group of us there looking at the bike just had to laugh followed by a "they all do that".  :huepfenlol2:

Maybe she's about to deliver a Sporty   ;D
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: porthole on August 31, 2013, 10:40:20 AM
I had to stop to make a phone call and left the bike idle, the fans kicked on and seemed to be doing a great job of cooling.


Sitting next to my buddies honda shadow I can hear the fan when it kicks on.
How much noise do these make? Both come on at the same time?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: porthole on August 31, 2013, 11:02:25 AM
Not to jack the thread but it looks like jaymedics jiffy stand is angled back farther than it should be. Has that changed or is he flirting with danger?



Looks like part of HD's scary "watch my wife jump whenever I get off the bike and it rolls because of the kickstand" maneuver.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: dlaws01 on August 31, 2013, 05:32:30 PM
Maybe she's about to deliver a Sporty   ;D

That's funny stuff,   ;D :zroflmao:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Skipper on August 31, 2013, 06:03:50 PM
Maybe she's about to deliver a Sporty   ;D
or, maybe her Cherry popped?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: HDMAN on September 01, 2013, 11:04:39 AM
I am curious; you state that you installed Custom dynamics LED turn signals without any issues. I installed them in my 2014 and they would not work, the indicators flash like crazy, and now my security system does not work. The LED lights that you installed in the front were they the type that flash on off not dim bright? I am concerned when it comes making electrical changes with the new system.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tlr on September 01, 2013, 11:10:19 AM
I am curious; you state that you installed Custom dynamics LED turn signals without any issues. I installed them in my 2014 and they would not work, the indicators flash like crazy, and now my security system does not work. The LED lights that you installed in the front were they the type that flash on off not dim bright? I am concerned when it comes making electrical changes with the new system.

did you install a load equalizer?  i beleive that you need to.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: SERK3 on September 01, 2013, 11:17:44 AM
did you install a load equalizer?  i beleive that you need to.

Sounds like he did not.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: cambo on September 01, 2013, 11:45:13 AM
I swapped out the front and rear lights on my '13 FXSBSE with led's and did not need to install a load equalizer. I ordered the CAN Bus kit with the Dynamic Ringz for the front. It comes with a jumper cable that has a resistor and needed to use it to ground the brake light. All went well and the lights work as advertised. I would recommend giving their tech support a call.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: HDMAN on September 01, 2013, 02:45:28 PM
I added the equalizer that I received from Custom Dynamics and the rear flasher would not blink. Perhaps the two are not related but worked well on the 2012 that I removed the unit from.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: MontyB on September 01, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
Watching this thread with much interest.   Guinea Pigs do not enjoy a high standard of living... just sayin'.   And waiting for 2015/16 or whenever they get things figured out over at HD.  :-\
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 02, 2013, 11:28:22 AM
After a shakedown of approx 600+ miles on my new 2014 FLHTKSE, I have compiled a personal list of ‘Pros’,’ Jury Still Out’, ‘Cons’, and ‘Ugly’.  I am certain that there will be those new owners that will have different impressions and disagree with my assessment.  That’s OK, since we all have differing preferences and priorities.  My list is lengthy and will be posted in two parts.  It is a work in progress, but I wanted to get my impressions to you ASAP, and get feedback from those that may have better knowledge on these issues. 
Pros:
•   New 49mm front forks/front fork suspension/improved neck bearing - Ride quality and handling is a quantum leap, especially if you ditch the stock rear shocks in favor of the HD Premium Touring Shocks or equivalent.  This improvement alone is worth the price of admission. 
•   Boost in HP and Torque is definitely noticeable.   
•   Fairing/windshield vent - Really works!  Wind buffeting is reduced approx 30- 40% without any additional wind in the face.
•   Saddlebag/Tourpack latches.  Also, Saddlebag frame mounts much more robust and easier to remove saddlebags.
•   Tourpack capacity increased approx 5%.  Capacity would be much greater if the front and back weren’t nearly as tapered, but I’m OK with it since I like the new look.
•   Stock slip-ons have a better sound and more bark.
Jury Still Out:
Twin Cooling System – I initially had a big problem with this.  Basically, it wasn’t working, and the bike was prone to overheating and stalling. I would ride at highway speeds (55-80mph) well over an hour without stopping or slowing, then at the first stop, the engine would immediately go into EITMS mode.   After a second ECM reflash at the dealer, the system appears to be working, but the ambient temps have been cooler (low 70s) where I live since the last reflash.  I’ll have to see how it works in warmer climes.  One interesting problem that the Dealer Techs discovered was the inability to perform a ‘live’ diagnostic with the bike running.  The new diagnostic software breaks the connection when the bike is started.  This has been brought to the attention of the MoCo and they are supposedly addressing the issue.

I’ll post the ‘Cons’ and the ‘Ugly’, which, IMHO, primarily involves the significant lack of functionality with the GPS and Infotainment systems, in a subsequent message.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: flyguy on September 02, 2013, 12:02:35 PM
Great info!! Keep it coming...
So do I understand that you already replaced the rear shocks? Or are you thinking about it?
From what I see in the spec sheet the 13 has 3 more lb's tq.(But thats the "spec sheet"), but it felt pretty good, about the same as mine. I do agree the slip on's seem to have more bark than the stock 13's.

Looking forward to your update.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: dlaws01 on September 02, 2013, 01:20:05 PM
This is precisely what we want, real world unbiased rider feedback on the new model's improvements.  Thanks for the post and anticipating more reviews.   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: FLHTCUSE7 on September 02, 2013, 07:52:51 PM
Did the stock pipes sound good enough to keep or is aftermarket pipes still a must?



After a shakedown of approx 600+ miles on my new 2014 FLHTKSE, I have compiled a personal list of ‘Pros’,’ Jury Still Out’, ‘Cons’, and ‘Ugly’.  I am certain that there will be those new owners that will have different impressions and disagree with my assessment.  That’s OK, since we all have differing preferences and priorities.  My list is lengthy and will be posted in two parts.  It is a work in progress, but I wanted to get my impressions to you ASAP, and get feedback from those that may have better knowledge on these issues. 
Pros:
•   New 49mm front forks/front fork suspension/improved neck bearing - Ride quality and handling is a quantum leap, especially if you ditch the stock rear shocks in favor of the HD Premium Touring Shocks or equivalent.  This improvement alone is worth the price of admission. 
•   Boost in HP and Torque is definitely noticeable.   
•   Fairing/windshield vent - Really works!  Wind buffeting is reduced approx 30- 40% without any additional wind in the face.
•   Saddlebag/Tourpack latches.  Also, Saddlebag frame mounts much more robust and easier to remove saddlebags.
•   Tourpack capacity increased approx 5%.  Capacity would be much greater if the front and back weren’t nearly as tapered, but I’m OK with it since I like the new look.
•   Stock slip-ons have a better sound and more bark.
Jury Still Out:
Twin Cooling System – I initially had a big problem with this.  Basically, it wasn’t working, and the bike was prone to overheating and stalling. I would ride at highway speeds (55-80mph) well over an hour without stopping or slowing, then at the first stop, the engine would immediately go into EITMS mode.   After a second ECM reflash at the dealer, the system appears to be working, but the ambient temps have been cooler (low 70s) where I live since the last reflash.  I’ll have to see how it works in warmer climes.  One interesting problem that the Dealer Techs discovered was the inability to perform a ‘live’ diagnostic with the bike running.  The new diagnostic software breaks the connection when the bike is started.  This has been brought to the attention of the MoCo and they are supposedly addressing the issue.

I’ll post the ‘Cons’ and the ‘Ugly’, which, IMHO, primarily involves the significant lack of functionality with the GPS and Infotainment systems, in a subsequent message.

Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 02, 2013, 08:24:56 PM
Impressions, Part Deux…..
Once again, these are my impressions of the new features.  Opinions of others may differ.
Cons:
Infotainment System.  What I consider the most serious issue with the system is that it is too convoluted to operate, especially on the fly.  Having accrued over 28,000 hrs flying   military and legacy airline jets, I have finally met my operator limits.  The addition of two five-position joysticks and the left handlebar trigger has been, at times, overwhelming and distracting, and must be used prudently and conservatively, especially when underway.  I will not be surprised if there are a few riders that depart the paved surface while playing with the system.  If this starts to become a trend, I fear the MoCo might update the firmware, effectively ‘locking out’ certain features this system when the bike is moving.  This would effectively transform the system into an $1800 fairing ‘brick’ when underway.  We need to be aware of this and use the system cautiously and safely.       
Bluetooth.  When initially starting up the bike, the Bluetooth is very slow to pair with my IPhone 5.  Takes 3-5 minutes on average.  I thought it might be the phone, so I tried it with the wife’s IPhone 4 and then a friend’s Droid.  Same result.
Inner Fairing Phone/USB Cubby Hole.  Not a good design.  Problematic when trying to stuff both the phone and phone cable in the cavity.  The door assembly to the cubby hole also seems cheap and flimsy.  Hopefully not prone to breaking.
Rider Backrest.  I’m 6’2” with a 32”inseam.  The new seat is extremely comfortable; more so than the previous hammock seat design.  The backrest is another story.  Despite my long torso, the lowest backrest setting positions places it at my mid-back, not lower back as desired.  The backache starts at 50-100 miles.  Shorter riders may find the backrest on their shoulder blades.  This wasn’t a problem on my previous CVOs.
Daymaker Lights.  These have been out for awhile, but they are my first set.   I am concerned about the reduction in brightness in the daytime, compared to the previous lamps.  I’m a big believer in the ‘being seen’ concept, and all of my close calls with cagers have been during daylight hours.  The light ‘throw’ at night is better, but I am not convinced they are worth the compromise during the day.  Currently looking for aftermarket alternatives.  Ideas and suggestions from you guys would be most welcome.     
Ugly
GPS.   My biggest disappointment. 
Short Story:
• The GPS capability is archaic, on a par with 20yr old technology.  I’ll be mounting my old Garmin Zumo on the bike.
Long Story :
• Unable to build/load custom routes with more than 9 total waypoints/via points.  Forget about installing custom routes from Basecamp and Mapsource with more than 9 waypints.  I haven’t tried loading a custom route from HD Ride Planner, since it’s a crappy program and a nightmare to build a custom route.  Basically all you can do is load in the final destination, then enable/disable the route calculation preferences (Twisty, Round Trip, Avoidances).  The existing system places you at the mercy of where the MoCo thinks you should go.       
• Lack of Active Route Information, such as Time, Distance, or ETA to next turn point.  Can only display Time, Distance, and ETA to final destination.  Turn point info is provided only via voice prompts, which is problematic if you wish to mute it so it doesn’t continually interrupt your tunes.
• Display – Screen brightness can be adjusted, but contrast cannot.  Problematic in the sunlight when the GPS display has a gray background with most roads colored yellow.
• Slow to boot up/ready to navigate.  Takes several minutes.
• Check out the price of map updates at:
        https://harley-davidson.naviextras.com/shop/portal/newCatalog?selectedTab=3
               Prices vary from $149.95 to $199.95 depending on region.  Ka-Ching!
• Another very pricey item is the replaceable peel and stick screen protector (P/N 91700034).  Priced at $56.37, the Owner’s Manual states that failure to replace it as needed will void the warranty.  Seriously MoCo?   
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 02, 2013, 08:30:00 PM
Did the stock pipes sound good enough to keep or is aftermarket pipes still a must?




The stock pipes sound good enough for me.  From the rider's seat during cruise, they sound just slightly less than the V&H Monster Ovals that I used to run.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 02, 2013, 08:31:22 PM
Just left my dealer and a guy brought back his new cvo ultra  after 250 miles and it stayed in parade mode and the fans won't turn on First day for him.   Billy

That may have been me.  Was it the red model at Woodstock HD?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 02, 2013, 08:36:34 PM
Great info!! Keep it coming...
So do I understand that you already replaced the rear shocks? Or are you thinking about it?
From what I see in the spec sheet the 13 has 3 more lb's tq.(But thats the "spec sheet"), but it felt pretty good, about the same as mine. I do agree the slip on's seem to have more bark than the stock 13's.

Looking forward to your update.

I had the dealer put the HD Premium Touring Shocks on from the previous bike.  I've been very happy with them, and now with the new front fork/neck bearings the ride is awesome!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Billy on September 02, 2013, 09:34:45 PM
That may have been me.  Was it the red model at Woodstock HD?
Yes I believe that we met there when Nick was trying to fix your bike. I hope all is well now. Sorry to read about the GPS  Very poor  product for a new  bike when GPS  have been out forever that work better  and easier.     Billy
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Ironhorse on September 03, 2013, 03:34:05 AM
UAL767plt,

Harley should be paying you for your reviews. You are providing them the info they need to hopefully "get things right". From what you have written, the Infortainment/GPS system is very disappointing. And the way they milk you for more money via map updates and screen protectors is without conscience.

Mark
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tlr on September 03, 2013, 07:52:35 AM
Impressions, Part Deux…..
Daymaker Lights.  These have been out for awhile, but they are my first set.   I am concerned about the reduction in brightness in the daytime, compared to the previous lamps.  I’m a big believer in the ‘being seen’ concept, and all of my close calls with cagers have been during daylight hours.  The light ‘throw’ at night is better, but I am not convinced they are worth the compromise during the day.  Currently looking for aftermarket alternatives.  Ideas and suggestions from you guys would be most welcome.   


first, thanks for posting your thoughts. This is the info that we all really need.  As for the lights, I opted for the Moto Lights down on the brake calipers and also put in the LED turn signals by CUstom Dynamcis.  They are white while riding and turn yellow when you use turn signal or flashers. They are bright and are "white light" that match the Daymaker and the LED Moto Lights.  I think that the combination of those are pretty good. 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 03, 2013, 08:01:15 AM
first, thanks for posting your thoughts. This is the info that we all really need.  As for the lights, I opted for the Moto Lights down on the brake calipers and also put in the LED turn signals by CUstom Dynamcis.  They are white while riding and turn yellow when you use turn signal or flashers. They are bright and are "white light" that match the Daymaker and the LED Moto Lights.  I think that the combination of those are pretty good. 

Tir, thanks so much for the suggestions on the lights.  I'll check them out  :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tlr on September 03, 2013, 08:07:14 AM
Here is a pic with the lights.  One is yellow as I put a blinker on to capture that.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Jswerve on September 03, 2013, 08:10:36 AM
My new 2014 'Steaming Eagle' is back in the shop after 318 miles.  The Twin Cooling is not working as it should and the bike is overheating.  Furthermore, the Infotainment system is an epic fail IMHO.  Lipstick on a Pig.  Once I compile all of the details, I will post the pros and cons of the new bike and it's functionality.
I don't understand why it would overheat, if the cooling fails, shouldn't it simply be an air cooled Vtwin motor again????  :nixweiss:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Jswerve on September 03, 2013, 08:17:03 AM
Impressions, Part Deux…..

Daymaker Lights.  These have been out for awhile, but they are my first set.   I am concerned about the reduction in brightness in the daytime, compared to the previous lamps.  I’m a big believer in the ‘being seen’ concept, and all of my close calls with cagers have been during daylight hours.  The light ‘throw’ at night is better, but I am not convinced they are worth the compromise during the day.  Currently looking for aftermarket alternatives.  Ideas and suggestions from you guys would be most welcome.     

Let me tell you that while riding to, riding at, and coming home from Sturgis, the HD Daymaker lights were the most visible daytime lamps we noticed. The Phase 7 has a spot when coming head on to it that blanks out and looks like there is no light coming out.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ultrarider123 on September 03, 2013, 08:22:47 AM
UAL767plt,
Harley should be paying you for your reviews. You are providing them the info they need to hopefully "get things right". From what you have written, the Infortainment/GPS system is very disappointing. And the way they milk you for more money via map updates and screen protectors is without conscience.
Mark

Agreed!  

UAL, thanks for the very informative review of your bike and the good/bad/ugly of it.  I'm a firm believer that if the MoCo (or any product manufacturer for that matter) used real world evaluations/testing of their products (and some do) using "real" people instead of paid engineers/evaluators (who's job could be on the line for a negative issue....) is the way to go.  Make your product, review it in-house and then get some actual potential users of your product to use it.  You will get all kinds of opinions (just like we do on the forum) but you also receive positive real-world feedback.  If you read our responses/reviews, there is good, real world information there.  While some of us may not have any of the problems or issues, some of us may have them all or more but it's all here for us to use as needed and we are aware of issues if something does come up.  MoCo, are you listening  :nixweiss:

Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ultrarider123 on September 03, 2013, 08:27:21 AM
Tir, thanks so much for the suggestions on the lights.  I'll check them out  :2vrolijk_21:

One thing I've done on both my SESG (with the Phase 7) and Skunk Ryder's SERG (with the Daymakers) is elevate them a bit more than the stock/standard settings.  I know with the skunk behind me (day or night) I have NO problems seeing him.  We also upgraded to the  Custom Dynamics halo/turn signals as tlr and quite a few others of us have done....really tell a big difference being seen in daylight with them on.  Probably upgrade to the Moto lights eventually, too.  Very well made product from what I can tell

Again, thanks for taking the time for your thorough review of your '14 CVO limited
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 03, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
Let me tell you that while riding to, riding at, and coming home from Sturgis, the HD Daymaker lights were the most visible daytime lamps we noticed. The Phase 7 has a spot when coming head on to it that blanks out and looks like there is no light coming out.

Thanks, that's nice to know.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 03, 2013, 08:38:51 AM
I don't understand why it would overheat, if the cooling fails, shouldn't it simply be an air cooled Vtwin motor again????  :nixweiss:

When I was out on a group ride last Friday, there were two older CVOs in the group, but my bike was the only one that immediately went into ETIMS mode at stop signs/red lights.  I suspect the reason they were running cooler is because they both have the premium oil coolers, and the new '14s do not.  The water pump is now where the oil cooler used to be on previous models.  Since the ECM reflash later that day, the bike has been performing well.  I did a 200+ mile ride on Saturday with no issues.  Doing another ride today.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 03, 2013, 08:40:21 AM
One thing I've done on both my SESG (with the Phase 7) and Skunk Ryder's SERG (with the Daymakers) is elevate them a bit more than the stock/standard settings.  I know with the skunk behind me (day or night) I have NO problems seeing him.  We also upgraded to the  Custom Dynamics halo/turn signals as tlr and quite a few others of us have done....really tell a big difference being seen in daylight with them on.  Probably upgrade to the Moto lights eventually, too.  Very well made product from what I can tell

Again, thanks for taking the time for your thorough review of your '14 CVO limited

A lot of great suggestions.  Thanks all!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Jswerve on September 03, 2013, 08:45:00 AM
Thanks, that's nice to know.
You're welcome. Rubber side down brother. Enjoy your new scoot.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: OBB on September 03, 2013, 09:05:44 AM
Here is a pic with the lights.  One is yellow as I put a blinker on to capture that.  Hope that helps.
Something to keep in mind about this setup. A lot of states have laws stating no more than 4 forward facing white lights. Check your state laws before dropping the coin on the motolights/CD turn signal setup.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tlr on September 03, 2013, 09:56:46 AM
Something to keep in mind about this setup. A lot of states have laws stating no more than 4 forward facing white lights. Check your state laws before dropping the coin on the motolights/CD turn signal setup.

I did not know this.  Thanks for the heads up.  In looking quickly i see that some states say more than 4 and others say more than 6. I will investigate more. 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: skratch on September 03, 2013, 06:33:11 PM
I suspect the reason they were running cooler is because they both have the premium oil coolers, and the new '14s do not. 

without taking temperature measurements, you don't really know that the others were running cooler or not.  i have heard that they have changed the temp at which the eitms kicks in on the 14s and made it lower (in an effort to keep it from heating up as fast).  true or not, i don't know, seems there are no manuals online to be had yet.  hd doesn't have the owners manuals loaded yet on their website either.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 03, 2013, 09:48:34 PM
without taking temperature measurements, you don't really know that the others were running cooler or not.  i have heard that they have changed the temp at which the eitms kicks in on the 14s and made it lower (in an effort to keep it from heating up as fast).  true or not, i don't know, seems there are no manuals online to be had yet.  hd doesn't have the owners manuals loaded yet on their website either.

Yes sir, you are absolutely correct!  I was at the dealership today, and one of the Techs contacted someone in engineering at the MoCo.  Apparently, there was a last minute decision to change the cooling 'strategy' on all the '14 bikes with the EITMS systems.  It was such a late decision, the description is not in the owner's manuals and service manuals.  Here is how the EITMS now works...if the outside ambient (not engine) temp is 80 deg F or higher, 4 minutes after the bike is started, the EITMS mode will kick in regardless of engine temp.  The Twin (liquid) Cooling is always working, but the fans only come on if the engine reaches a predetermined temp.  This was really confusing several service depts, since they were kept in the dark about the new 'strategy'.

Another high note....There was another Infotainment firmware update, Ver 7.1.1 released last Friday.  After downloading and installing it, several noticeable improvements.  The GPS is booting faster, and when navigating, the screen now displays distance and direction to the next turn.  Still only 9 waypoints.  The Tech asked the MoCo engineer about this, and was told there have been no complaints, and 'why would you need more?'
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: mrmagloo on September 04, 2013, 03:39:33 PM
... Still only 9 waypoints.  The Tech asked the MoCo engineer about this, and was told there have been no complaints, and 'why would you need more?'

WTF??  All engineers should be verified riders themselves. That's nuts.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on September 06, 2013, 01:27:44 AM
Picked up my Ltd. today.  Only put on 50 miles so far. I noticed the EITMS kicking on all the time at stop lights, so good to know I guess that's normal.
So far only complaint is every time I start the bike, the sound goes to rear speakers only.  I have to go into the Audio fader settings and as soon as I slide the fade in either direction the front speakers turn on and everything works fine.  Not sure what firmware I have, and I haven't updated anything.
Pairing my iphone 5 was very simple and intuitive via the menus.  That's it for now.  I love this bike!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ridefar on September 06, 2013, 11:03:12 AM
Hey ual767, thanks so much for your very clear and concise appraisals of what you are experiencing with your new ride. If HD is listening they should be paying you for your experience instead of the "yes-men" on their staff that allow all the bugs to reach the consumer product. I am in agreement of your assessment of the "infotainment" system(which I feel has no place in any motor vehicle 2 or 4 wheels) that a bunch of old guys are going to end up in ditches while screwing with all the myriad gizmos. Joysticks and bigscreen tv on a motorcycle? Think alcohol and gunpowder. Best of luck to you sir with your new bike and enjoy the ride!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on September 09, 2013, 10:42:20 AM
I'm not sure why the complaints about the led lights and the GPS on the 14.
First the LEDs, I am the director of an ambulance service and have been a paramedic for over 27 years. I have seen more bad accidents involving motorcycles than i even want to remember. I have had Harley's LEDs plus a set of moto lights on my bikes since they came out. I am constantly recieving comments about how bright my lights are. My buddy was following me yesterday, he also has Harley LEDs , and he stuck out like a sore thumb.
Second the GPS
The screen on my 14 is much bigger, the auto brightness works great and with the color screen the contrast is fantastic. Being 60 my eyesight is not as good as what it used to be for seeing up close. The old zumo was becoming just about useless. I personally think this was one of the biggest and best improvements on the bike.
On My 09 cvo ultra I had replaced the baffles with Fulsac ,removed the cat , installed a 54 cam , put a high flow air cleaner and replaced the ECM with a thundermax. I thought the bike was a screamer until I jumped on my new TOTALY stock 14, well I removed the cat, and the 14 ran every bit as good as the 09 and ran cooler.
The new front forks are as good as the progressives I had on my other bike and I moved the legend air suspension to the 14
Over all I love the new bike and am very glad I upgraded
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Jswerve on September 09, 2013, 11:16:24 AM
I'm not sure why the complaints about the led lights and the GPS on the 14.
First the LEDs, I am the director of an ambulance service and have been a paramedic for over 27 years. I have seen more bad accidents involving motorcycles than i even want to remember. I have had Harley's LEDs plus a set of moto lights on my bikes since they came out. I am constantly recieving comments about how bright my lights are. My buddy was following me yesterday, he also has Harley LEDs , and he stuck out like a sore thumb.
Second the GPS
The screen on my 14 is much bigger, the auto brightness works great and with the color screen the contrast is fantastic. Being 60 my eyesight is not as good as what it used to be for seeing up close. The old zumo was becoming just about useless. I personally think this was one of the biggest and best improvements on the bike.
On My 09 cvo ultra I had replaced the baffles with Fulsac ,removed the cat , installed a 54 cam , put a high flow air cleaner and replaced the ECM with a thundermax. I thought the bike was a screamer until I jumped on my new TOTALY stock 14, well I removed the cat, and the 14 ran every bit as good as the 09 and ran cooler.
The new front forks are as good as the progressives I had on my other bike and I moved the legend air suspension to the 14
Over all I love the new bike and am very glad I upgraded
Thanks for the informative post Jay, you opened my eyes to a few good points.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tpcrawford on September 09, 2013, 01:20:41 PM
I just took delivery of a 2014 CVO Limited Stardust Silver and Autumn Sunset yesterday.    Only thing is ..... the owners manual was missing.   Dealership is taking care of that for me but, I'd like to update the firmware on the radio.

How did you update the firmware on the Radio ?   I downloaded and extracted the iso file and placed it on a 16 GB flash drive.

I followed the instructions to Turn the Ignition to accessory  ...  then I found out, where's Accessory ?   It's not like my 2010 FLHTK.   So I turned the ignition to the right.  The Radio booted and recognized the flash drive and verified the iso image was ok.  The next prompt was ... are you sure, and please don't disrupt the process.    My only option at that point is NO.  Yes is grayed out.

So the next thing I tried was pressing and holding the trip button for more than 2 seconds.  Radio did the same thing, booted, recognized drive, verified iso and again will not allow me to select YES.   

Any ideas ?

-Tim
 BTW ... I'll post pictures of the bike shortly.

Yes sir, you are absolutely correct!  I was at the dealership today, and one of the Techs contacted someone in engineering at the MoCo.  Apparently, there was a last minute decision to change the cooling 'strategy' on all the '14 bikes with the EITMS systems.  It was such a late decision, the description is not in the owner's manuals and service manuals.  Here is how the EITMS now works...if the outside ambient (not engine) temp is 80 deg F or higher, 4 minutes after the bike is started, the EITMS mode will kick in regardless of engine temp.  The Twin (liquid) Cooling is always working, but the fans only come on if the engine reaches a predetermined temp.  This was really confusing several service depts, since they were kept in the dark about the new 'strategy'.

Another high note....There was another Infotainment firmware update, Ver 7.1.1 released last Friday.  After downloading and installing it, several noticeable improvements.  The GPS is booting faster, and when navigating, the screen now displays distance and direction to the next turn.  Still only 9 waypoints.  The Tech asked the MoCo engineer about this, and was told there have been no complaints, and 'why would you need more?'
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: RetSUBLDO on September 09, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
Got the following from http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/Owners/infotainment/software-downloads.html

Boom! Box Audio System Software Update Instructions
1. Verify your audio system’s current software version.
a. Select the following display menu items: “Home/Set-up/System Information/Software Version”.
b. Record the software version.
c. Compare your audio system’s software version with the latest version available on this page.
d. If the software versions are the same, you have the latest software available and there is no need to update. If a higher level software level is available on harley-davidson.com, continue to update your audio system.
NOTE
Do not interrupt the installation process. Leave the vehicle and
radio turned on, and keep the USB flash drive installed until
the installation process is complete.
2. Download the latest software version from harley-davidson.com
a. Select “Download Software Update” for the appropriate audio system.
b. When prompted, save the compressed file to your computer desktop.
c. When the download is complete, copy the file within the zipped folder to the root directory (the first or top most directory in a file system) of a USB flash drive that is 8 GB or larger.
d. Turn your vehicle’s ignition switch to ACCESSORY. (Keyless ignition vehicles: press and hold the trip switch for more than two seconds).
e. Turn on the audio system and connect the USB flash drive to the audio system’s USB port.
f. The audio system will detect the new software available and ask if you want to update. Select “Yes”. The display will prompt you to remove the USB drive when the update is complete.
NOTE
If the incorrect software file for your audio system is copied to the USB flash drive,
and connected to the audio system’s USB port, the following error message will result:
“The ISO image on the attached USB is corrupted or incompatible”.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Opossum on September 09, 2013, 03:09:45 PM
I just took delivery of a 2014 CVO Limited Stardust Silver and Autumn Sunset yesterday.    Only thing is ..... the owners manual was missing.   Dealership is taking care of that for me but, I'd like to update the firmware on the radio.

How did you update the firmware on the Radio ?   I downloaded and extracted the iso file and placed it on a 16 GB flash drive.

I followed the instructions to Turn the Ignition to accessory  ...  then I found out, where's Accessory ?   It's not like my 2010 FLHTK.   So I turned the ignition to the right.  The Radio booted and recognized the flash drive and verified the iso image was ok.  The next prompt was ... are you sure, and please don't disrupt the process.    My only option at that point is NO.  Yes is grayed out.

So the next thing I tried was pressing and holding the trip button for more than 2 seconds.  Radio did the same thing, booted, recognized drive, verified iso and again will not allow me to select YES.   

Any ideas ?

-Tim
 BTW ... I'll post pictures of the bike shortly.

Exactlythe same with me just got the owners manual today and  also tried the radio upgrade with two different thumb drives with the same reults as you.  Dealer says bring it in and they'll try
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tpcrawford on September 09, 2013, 03:27:38 PM
Exactlythe same with me just got the owners manual today and  also tried the radio upgrade with two different thumb drives with the same reults as you.  Dealer says bring it in and they'll try


Weird.   You didn't receive and Owners Manual at delivery either ?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Chains on September 09, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
I don't understand why it would overheat, if the cooling fails, shouldn't it simply be an air cooled Vtwin motor again????  :nixweiss:

I would think it would be more like a pot left on the stove with a lid on it on high. :nervous:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Opossum on September 09, 2013, 04:14:13 PM

Weird.   You didn't receive and Owners Manual at delivery either ?
Nope picked mine up 8/30 and unpacked everything to settle in for some reading, but lo and behold no manual!  Got it today!  We quizzed the guys in service thinkin' it had been "borrowed" but no.  Next day a red one was in from the sister shop and it's was missin' also.  Very wierd.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: scottt on September 09, 2013, 04:19:40 PM
Got the following from http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/Owners/infotainment/software-downloads.html

Boom! Box Audio System Software Update Instructions
1. Verify your audio system’s current software version.
a. Select the following display menu items: “Home/Set-up/System Information/Software Version”.
b. Record the software version.
c. Compare your audio system’s software version with the latest version available on this page.
d. If the software versions are the same, you have the latest software available and there is no need to update. If a higher level software level is available on harley-davidson.com, continue to update your audio system.
NOTE
Do not interrupt the installation process. Leave the vehicle and
radio turned on, and keep the USB flash drive installed until
the installation process is complete.
2. Download the latest software version from harley-davidson.com
a. Select “Download Software Update” for the appropriate audio system.
b. When prompted, save the compressed file to your computer desktop.
c. When the download is complete, copy the file within the zipped folder to the root directory (the first or top most directory in a file system) of a USB flash drive that is 8 GB or larger.
d. Turn your vehicle’s ignition switch to ACCESSORY. (Keyless ignition vehicles: press and hold the trip switch for more than two seconds).
e. Turn on the audio system and connect the USB flash drive to the audio system’s USB port.
f. The audio system will detect the new software available and ask if you want to update. Select “Yes”. The display will prompt you to remove the USB drive when the update is complete.
NOTE
If the incorrect software file for your audio system is copied to the USB flash drive,
and connected to the audio system’s USB port, the following error message will result:
“The ISO image on the attached USB is corrupted or incompatible”.


I wonder if the radio upgrades will become part of the bike service package? It really seems to me that the Harley dealers should automatically check to see if upgrades are needed and if they are take care of them. Or will we need to ask for the service and find a big ol add to the service bill? Just wondering
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: BUCKNUT GREG on September 09, 2013, 04:27:22 PM

I wonder if the radio upgrades will become part of the bike service package? It really seems to me that the Harley dealers should automatically check to see if upgrades are needed and if they are take care of them. Or will we need to ask for the service and find a big ol add to the service bill? Just wondering
Scott, I wouldn't just ask for updates I would demand it.  The bike should be up to date when delivered.  But the dealerships
cant even run a proper check list of what is included with the bikes.  Glad my dealer gives a thorough check in/out upon delivery.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: scottt on September 09, 2013, 04:55:23 PM
Scott, I wouldn't just ask for updates I would demand it.  The bike should be up to date when delivered.  But the dealerships
cant even run a proper check list of what is included with the bikes.  Glad my dealer gives a thorough check in/out upon delivery.


Good point; they should keep updating the radio during the warrantee period, after all, these are not GPS updates, these are issues Harley has found and created software patches for. That is the silver lining about these high tech radio's, they can be updated without taking anything apart. No different than the way my smart phone makes updates to the operating system.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVOgliderider on September 09, 2013, 05:26:56 PM
Nope picked mine up 8/30 and unpacked everything to settle in for some reading, but lo and behold no manual!  Got it today!  We quizzed the guys in service thinkin' it had been "borrowed" but no.  Next day a red one was in from the sister shop and it's was missin' also.  Very wierd.
Picked mine up on the 7th and no owners manual ether... dealer said they called on it and would let me know when they received it..
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Opossum on September 09, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Picked mine up on the 7th and no owners manual ether... dealer said they called on it and would let me know when they received it..

Seems like they probably were reprinted to update things that were so new.  I know that even the dealers don't know how the new radio works and the new handlebar switches etc.  When you take to Harley shop for service the updates and recalls etc, are on the tech computer from the mother ship and any firmware updates are done automaticlly, least they were at my shop on the 2010.  This morning I couldn't get an answer as to mounting my motolights and adding a switch to the dash where the three spare slots are.  Found in the manual that the spare aux switch is now inside the left cover not under the seat, but couldn't get any farther than that YET.  With time it'll all get figgered out.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on September 09, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
When I was out on a group ride last Friday, there were two older CVOs in the group, but my bike was the only one that immediately went into ETIMS mode at stop signs/red lights.  I suspect the reason they were running cooler is because they both have the premium oil coolers, and the new '14s do not.  The water pump is now where the oil cooler used to be on previous models.  Since the ECM reflash later that day, the bike has been performing well.  I did a 200+ mile ride on Saturday with no issues.  Doing another ride today.

Weird. I test rode a 2014 Ultra Limited (non CVO) and there was an oil cooler in the same place it always was. Maybe just a CVO thing?  :nixweiss:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: phato1 on September 09, 2013, 08:46:28 PM
Weird. I test rode a 2014 Ultra Limited (non CVO) and there was an oil cooler in the same place it always was. Maybe just a CVO thing?  :nixweiss:

The cover they put over the water pump on the  Ultra Limited does look an awful lot like the cover that is over the oil cooler on the Ultra, makes it hard to distinguish between the two systems.

Still not sure why there is no oil cooler in addition to the liquid cooling - I 'd be just as concerned about keeping the oil temp down as well as the cylinder head and exhaust valve area. However doesn't seem to much room for an oil cooler, even a vertical one mounted to the downtube would be cramped. Perhaps the "oil Bud" system is an option on the '14's
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on September 09, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
Are we sure it isn't both?

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/harleydavidson/ss/Six-Things-You-Should-Know-About-Liquid-Cooled-2014-Harley-Davidsons_2.htm
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Boatman on September 09, 2013, 10:14:36 PM
Are we sure it isn't both?

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/harleydavidson/ss/Six-Things-You-Should-Know-About-Liquid-Cooled-2014-Harley-Davidsons_2.htm

On the liquid cooled engines, the water pump is where the oil cooler used to be.    There is no oil cooler on liquid cooled bikes.

If you have  a totally air cooled engine (touring), you still have the oil cooler where we are accustomed to it.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tpcrawford on September 09, 2013, 10:43:05 PM

Weird.   You didn't receive and Owners Manual at delivery either ?

I figured the upgrade process out. 

With the bike off, attach flash drive (8gb or larger) with iso image in root directory to USB connection on bike.

On the left handlebar, the trip button (black with circular arrows), press and hold the trip button down until the radio powers up.  Release trip button.

Radio will recognize flash drive and verify I so image.  When prompted, select yes and the upgrade will take place.  Takes about 10 minutes.  You will be prompted to remove flash drive when firmware upgrade is complete.
 
The key to the process is to NOT turn on the bike.   Without the owners manual, I can only assume the trip button doubles as the accessory switch setting.

Tim

Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on September 09, 2013, 11:15:12 PM
Correct, the trip button is the accessory button. 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: BigLew55 on September 10, 2013, 09:03:09 AM
Are we sure it isn't both?

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/harleydavidson/ss/Six-Things-You-Should-Know-About-Liquid-Cooled-2014-Harley-Davidsons_2.htm

The Ultra Classic and other non-H2O bikes still have the oil cooler.  The Limited (both FLHTK and FLHTKSE) and the Tri-Glide do NOT have oil coolers.

There's no way I'm putting an oil cooler under the frame.  It would get smashed within the year.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tazmun on September 10, 2013, 10:43:42 PM
The Ultra Classic and other non-H2O bikes still have the oil cooler.  The Limited (both FLHTK and FLHTKSE) and the Tri-Glide do NOT have oil coolers.

There's no way I'm putting an oil cooler under the frame.  It would get smashed within the year.

Take a look at an oil cooler called OIL BUD! Fits under the engine and you won't have a problem! I have 2 friends that have them, and someone on this site did a right up about one on his 120R!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 10, 2013, 11:23:09 PM
I was also shorted an owner's manual when I took delivery of my new bike.  My dealer ordered one and I picked it up today.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: grc on September 11, 2013, 08:52:36 AM

Why all the worry about oil temps and oil coolers BEFORE anyone has even measured oil temperature on the new water cooled bikes?  I truly do not understand this obsessive interest in reducing oil temperatures when there is no evidence of a problem. 

Jerry
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Rooster on September 11, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
Prolly cause we HD riders have been overheated for so many years in a row there are prolly some who purchase a oil cooler before the bike :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: murphy on September 11, 2013, 10:42:20 AM
Why all the worry about oil temps and oil coolers BEFORE anyone has even measured oil temperature on the new water cooled bikes?  I truly do not understand this obsessive interest in reducing oil temperatures when there is no evidence of a problem. 

Jerry

One word/name Jerry... Pavlov.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: dlaws01 on September 11, 2013, 09:21:09 PM
Why all the worry about oil temps and oil coolers BEFORE anyone has even measured oil temperature on the new water cooled bikes?  I truly do not understand this obsessive interest in reducing oil temperatures when there is no evidence of a problem. 

Jerry

You just don't understand Jerry.  Hot oil, Harley-Davidson, oil coolers, higher capacity oil pans, hot oil,  what am I going to do?   :vrolijk27: :stunned: :uhoh2: :zwtf: :dizzy2: :rolleyes3: :bigcry:  :nervous:  :'(   Can't you see?  Don't you get it?  What am I going to do?
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Rooster on September 12, 2013, 12:04:04 PM
I was at a local dealer last night talking to a salesman about the new bikes and he told me the new cooling system would have oil temp from 170-200 and I called BS and told him its a twin cam not an Evo. Nice guy though he has been there for six years. They did have a new 14 Trike and two CVO Ultras. I asked about price on CVOs he said 1k over msrp. I said not me.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on September 12, 2013, 02:17:26 PM
I was at a local dealer last night talking to a salesman about the new bikes and he told me the new cooling system would have oil temp from 170-200 and I called BS and told him its a twin cam not an Evo. Nice guy though he has been there for six years. They did have a new 14 Trike and two CVO Ultras. I asked about price on CVOs he said 1k over msrp. I said not me.

I had one tell me the same thing. Also had one point to the water pump and declare "see! It still has an oil cooler "
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: North Georgia Hawg on September 12, 2013, 02:32:58 PM
I had one tell me the same thing. Also had one point to the water pump and declare "see! It still has an oil cooler "

The salesperson is the LAST person whose word I would believe about ANYTHING...

Ken
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Kingspoke on September 12, 2013, 08:33:25 PM
You just don't understand Jerry.  Hot oil, Harley-Davidson, oil coolers, higher capacity oil pans, hot oil,  what am I going to do?   :vrolijk27: :stunned: :uhoh2: :zwtf: :dizzy2: :rolleyes3: :bigcry:  :nervous:  :'(   Can't you see?  Don't you get it?  What am I going to do?

LOL, that's why I love this site! :drink:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: porthole on September 12, 2013, 09:32:44 PM
The salesperson is the LAST person whose word I would believe about ANYTHING...


right up there with the weather forecasting being posted  :huepfenjump3:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Robmay on September 13, 2013, 04:51:24 PM
I like that picture in your sig better Ken.  :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: tpcrawford on September 16, 2013, 10:03:24 PM
Picked up my Ltd. today.  Only put on 50 miles so far. I noticed the EITMS kicking on all the time at stop lights, so good to know I guess that's normal.
So far only complaint is every time I start the bike, the sound goes to rear speakers only.  I have to go into the Audio fader settings and as soon as I slide the fade in either direction the front speakers turn on and everything works fine.  Not sure what firmware I have, and I haven't updated anything.
Pairing my iphone 5 was very simple and intuitive via the menus.  That's it for now.  I love this bike!

My radio is doing the same thing, rear speakers only at startup. I did upgrade the firmware to 1.17.1.1 and that did not correct the issue.   Have you had your issue corrected ?  If so, what was the fix ?

Thanks,
-Tim
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on September 16, 2013, 10:33:46 PM
My radio is doing the same thing, rear speakers only at startup. I did upgrade the firmware to 1.17.1.1 and that did not correct the issue.   Have you had your issue corrected ?  If so, what was the fix ?

Thanks,
-Tim

Nope, it's still doing it.  I think mine is possessed.  I've had it switch to WB stations on it's own while riding now.  Just did it tonight.  I was listening to Pandora via the streaming iphone, and as I pulled into the driveway all of a sudden the weather band channel WB 5 turns on.  It's really frustrating to have to keep going into the audio menu to bump the fade back to the front speakers. Ugh!!!  Dealer said they would look into it, but I don't have a lot of faith.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 16, 2013, 10:58:45 PM
Picked up my Ltd. today.  Only put on 50 miles so far. I noticed the EITMS kicking on all the time at stop lights, so good to know I guess that's normal.
So far only complaint is every time I start the bike, the sound goes to rear speakers only.  I have to go into the Audio fader settings and as soon as I slide the fade in either direction the front speakers turn on and everything works fine.  Not sure what firmware I have, and I haven't updated anything.
Pairing my iphone 5 was very simple and intuitive via the menus.  That's it for now.  I love this bike!

I have this exact same problem with the speakers.  This, the lame-ass GPS, Bluetooth issues, and a minor cosmetic issue are the only problems remaining.  Even with these issues, I would still buy the bike again in a heartbeat--the handling and performance are a quantum leap compared to my previous '13.   
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: AMEDD_SFC on September 24, 2013, 05:47:45 PM
I figured the upgrade process out. 

With the bike off, attach flash drive (8gb or larger) with iso image in root directory to USB connection on bike.

On the left handlebar, the trip button (black with circular arrows), press and hold the trip button down until the radio powers up.  Release trip button.

Radio will recognize flash drive and verify I so image.  When prompted, select yes and the upgrade will take place.  Takes about 10 minutes.  You will be prompted to remove flash drive when firmware upgrade is complete.
 
The key to the process is to NOT turn on the bike.   Without the owners manual, I can only assume the trip button doubles as the accessory switch setting.

Tim



Hi All:

Wish I would have seen this thread when I went to update.  Took me quite a few tries to figure out: Ignition off / Trip = Acc.

Me too on the manual.  Called Harley today as I am still waiting for the Dealer to take care of it.  Nice lady said she would have one out to me today.
If you haven't received one yet, give HD a call.  Best if you have your VIN ready.  I didn't have mine so she said she would call the dealer and get it.  I suppose that might be an attention getter....

The CS number on HD website wasn't exactly easy for me to find so here it is 1-800-258-2464 or (414) 343-4056.

Regards,

Mark
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Cerdo on September 30, 2013, 09:35:17 PM
Overall the bike is awesome. It appears that the heat is a lot less on the rider now; however, here in Ohio it has not been hot in a long time to get a real test. Only have 180 miles on her and all appears to be great except for the rear shocks. I changed out my shocks from my old bike (had to make a spacer adjustment (to clear thew saddlebags) and the ride is now perfect. I did a 100 MPH blast the other day and the bike fees more stable and planted to the ground than all of my past models. Wind turbulence appears to be great for the driver; however, my wife is complaining that she has more wind buffeting now. I did notice the new daymaker headlight does not have enough side light when in the twisties. Without the driving lights and / or with the high beam on you loose all of your side light when in corners. The light projects a very wide flat beam and it cuts off the sides of the road  when tipping into corners, I took the bike back to the dealer and they charged me $50 to reprogram the ECM to allow the driving lights to stay on with the high beams. This fixed the problem and I see great now. My only complaint is the radio and GPS system. Very slow to boot up. I'm having an issue where we do not have enough volume to hear (Radio, CB, Intercom) in our helmets clearly at Highway speed. On the old bike, we had plenty of volume and some to spare to hear each other clearly in our headset's at any speed. Dealer claims this is normal and looking into the issue with the MOCO.

I tried to add pictures here and I kept getting an error message. Will try again.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVOgliderider on September 30, 2013, 10:17:04 PM
Well here is an update;

I have almost 1600 miles on the bike now, the bike is great, the only issue I have had with it is it dumped antifreeze out the overflow again.
It did it when I got home after the first 50 mile break in ride and then it did it again last Thursday when I got to Reno for Street Vibrations.
Air temp was in the low 50's so I had the lower fairing vents closed, only thing I can figure is that is what caused it to get hot. I ended up having
to buy a gallon of premix from Reno Harley and a disposable funnel to add about 1/2 a cup to the reservoir.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on September 30, 2013, 10:52:02 PM
Overall the bike is awesome. It appears that the heat is a lot less on the rider now; however, here in Ohio it has not been hot in a long time to get a real test. Only have 180 miles on her and all appears to be great except for the rear shocks. I changed out my shocks from my old bike (had to make a spacer adjustment (to clear thew saddlebags) and the ride is now perfect. I did a 100 MPH blast the other day and the bike fees more stable and planted to the ground than all of my past models. Wind turbulence appears to be great for the driver; however, my wife is complaining that she has more wind buffeting now. I did notice the new daymaker headlight does not have enough side light when in the twisties. Without the driving lights and / or with the high beam on you loose all of your side light when in corners. The light projects a very wide flat beam and it cuts off the sides of the road  when tipping into corners, I took the bike back to the dealer and they charged me $50 to reprogram the ECM to allow the driving lights to stay on with the high beams. This fixed the problem and I see great now. My only complaint is the radio and GPS system. Very slow to boot up. I'm having an issue where we do not have enough volume to hear (Radio, CB, Intercom) in our helmets clearly at Highway speed. On the old bike, we had plenty of volume and some to spare to hear each other clearly in our headset's at any speed. Dealer claims this is normal and looking into the issue with the MOCO.

I tried to add pictures here and I kept getting an error message. Will try again.

I also have the problem with not enough volume in the headset mode.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: AMEDD_SFC on September 30, 2013, 11:09:45 PM
Nope, it's still doing it.  I think mine is possessed.  I've had it switch to WB stations on it's own while riding now.  Just did it tonight.  I was listening to Pandora via the streaming iphone, and as I pulled into the driveway all of a sudden the weather band channel WB 5 turns on.  It's really frustrating to have to keep going into the audio menu to bump the fade back to the front speakers. Ugh!!!  Dealer said they would look into it, but I don't have a lot of faith.

Crap, I thought it was just me.  I had the radio go to WB a couple of times.  Fortunately, it hasn't done it for a while.  I didn't follow the thread so well, but if you haven't update the radio via the flash download.

If you already have, sorry for giving lame advice. 

It is a pretty sophisticated set up one one hand, and on the other it is a PITA.  Just wait until I go with the SENA setup and try to get Blue Tooth working through the headset - I can hardly wait.  And why I will have to do a $200 dongle to get bi-dir with a headset is unconscionable in this day in age.

Best,

Mark
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on October 01, 2013, 12:24:34 AM
Crap, I thought it was just me.  I had the radio go to WB a couple of times.  Fortunately, it hasn't done it for a while.  I didn't follow the thread so well, but if you haven't update the radio via the flash download.

If you already have, sorry for giving lame advice.  

It is a pretty sophisticated set up one one hand, and on the other it is a PITA.  Just wait until I go with the SENA setup and try to get Blue Tooth working through the headset - I can hardly wait.  And why I will have to do a $200 dongle to get bi-dir with a headset is unconscionable in this day in age.

Best,

Mark

I've been using a Sena headset for 4 years now. l Love it, but can't see how it can be integrated into the Infotainment set up. I think I'm going to sideline my Sena as I'm really enjoying the Infotainment even with the glitches that better get fixed.  I figures out the WB coming on by itself.  I had it set to "alert" me.  After I defeated "alerts," all is good.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: porthole on October 01, 2013, 10:37:08 AM
Well here is an update;

I have almost 1600 miles on the bike now, the bike is great, the only issue I have had with it is it dumped antifreeze out the overflow again.
It did it when I got home after the first 50 mile break in ride and then it did it again last Thursday when I got to Reno for Street Vibrations.
Air temp was in the low 50's so I had the lower fairing vents closed, only thing I can figure is that is what caused it to get hot. I ended up having
to buy a gallon of premix from Reno Harley and a disposable funnel to add about 1/2 a cup to the reservoir.


You had to BUY antifreeze on a brand new bike  :nixweiss: That is BS and shame on the dealer for not taking care of an obvious new design bike issue.

Seems like a letter fired off to HD is in order.

Especially since the HD reps - employees that follow this forum won't step up.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Boatman on October 01, 2013, 12:50:27 PM
You had to BUY antifreeze on a brand new bike  :nixweiss: That is BS and shame on the dealer for not taking care of an obvious new design bike issue.

Seems like a letter fired off to HD is in order.

Especially since the HD reps - employees that follow this forum won't step up.

I thought the same thing Duane.  And the guy from Ohio bought a $40,000 bike and dealer charged him $50 for the spotlights to be on with the high beams.  As long as they let the dealer's get away with this BS, it will always be the same.    :soapbox:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVOgliderider on October 01, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
You had to BUY antifreeze on a brand new bike  :nixweiss: That is BS and shame on the dealer for not taking care of an obvious new design bike issue.

Seems like a letter fired off to HD is in order.

Especially since the HD reps - employees that follow this forum won't step up.

I went into service first hoping to have someone care and offer to top it off from a gallon they
had open... the service writer acting like he was put out and didn't want to be there, they were busy with Street Vibrations going on but not that busy. He said sorry, you need to go to parts and buy a gallon and a disposable funnel because I don't have one to loan you ether... I always have heard that Carson City sells way more bikes than Reno does... now I know why..
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: mrmagloo on October 01, 2013, 01:18:22 PM
I went into service first hoping to have someone care and offer to top it off from a gallon they
had open... the service writer acting like he was put out and didn't want to be there, they were busy with Street Vibrations going on but not that busy. He said sorry, you need to go to parts and buy a gallon and a disposable funnel because I don't have one to loan you ether... I always have heard that Carson City sells way more bikes than Reno does... now I know why..

That chump sounds like a great candidate for Dick of the Week. I thought ALL dealers are philosophically supposed to give an extra hand to a stranded Harley owner, especially one with a frigging warranty.  I would have been hopping pissed if that jerk-off pulled that stunt on me. Now, I could understand them making me wait in line for those ahead, or at least give me the option to fill it up myself, but straight out refusing to honor a HD warranty on a new bike and forcing you to buy your own coolant is just not acceptable.  While I would have screamed bloody murder for the owner right then, after the fact, I would definitely send a letter demanding a refund and sending a copy to MOCO too.  Tolerating this kind of crap is just enabling these idiots.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: 110tHunDer on October 01, 2013, 01:45:19 PM
 
Makes ya wanna go out and buy a new bike, doesn't it? ::)
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: TinSpinner on October 01, 2013, 01:54:47 PM
That chump sounds like a great candidate for Dick of the Week. I thought ALL dealers are philosophically supposed to give an extra hand to a stranded Harley owner, especially one with a frigging warranty.  I would have been hopping pissed if that jerk-off pulled that stunt on me. Now, I could understand them making me wait in line for those ahead, or at least give me the option to fill it up myself, but straight out refusing to honor a HD warranty on a new bike and forcing you to buy your own coolant is just not acceptable.  While I would have screamed bloody murder for the owner right then, after the fact, I would definitely send a letter demanding a refund and sending a copy to MOCO too.  Tolerating this kind of crap is just enabling these idiots.

 :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVOgliderider on October 01, 2013, 03:48:05 PM
That chump sounds like a great candidate for Dick of the Week. I thought ALL dealers are philosophically supposed to give an extra hand to a stranded Harley owner, especially one with a frigging warranty.  I would have been hopping pissed if that jerk-off pulled that stunt on me. Now, I could understand them making me wait in line for those ahead, or at least give me the option to fill it up myself, but straight out refusing to honor a HD warranty on a new bike and forcing you to buy your own coolant is just not acceptable.  While I would have screamed bloody murder for the owner right then, after the fact, I would definitely send a letter demanding a refund and sending a copy to MOCO too.  Tolerating this kind of crap is just enabling these idiots.

You will love this, when I asked if they had a funnel to loan me the service writer tells me, the only funnels they have are the ones they use for oil?? guess they
haven't worked on any 2014 bikes and don't plan to. I was so pissed at that point I just wanted to top off the reservoir and get the hell out of there. Thankfully one
of the guys I was riding with was on a trike so he put the gallon in his trunk when we headed home or I would have had to leave it at the hotel.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: sadunbar on October 01, 2013, 04:24:53 PM

Makes ya wanna go out and buy a new bike, doesn't it? ::)


Not a chance...   :nervous:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: AMEDD_SFC on October 01, 2013, 04:52:50 PM
I've been using a Sena headset for 4 years now. l Love it, but can't see how it can be integrated into the Infotainment set up. I think I'm going to sideline my Sena as I'm really enjoying the Infotainment even with the glitches that better get fixed.  I figures out the WB coming on by itself.  I had it set to "alert" me.  After I defeated "alerts," all is good.

I can't take credit for the find as I saw a post elsewhere on CVOHarley, but  http://www.spoiledbiker.com/product3326.html (http://www.spoiledbiker.com/product3326.html).

From Spoiled Biker:

Spoiled Biker is proud to introduce the only wireless 2-way connection to your Harley Davidson intercom.  This device plugs directly into your Harley intercom port and can then be paired to the Bluetooth headset of your choice.  Full 2-way communication through your Harley's audio system is then available.   - See more at: http://www.spoiledbiker.com/product3326.html#sthash.267Rg89w.dpuf (http://www.spoiledbiker.com/product3326.html#sthash.267Rg89w.dpuf)

It's a little pricey, but we did pay for CVOs after all.   :-\  I see using the Bluetooth adapter for the bike tunes/voice commands and using the integral SENA intercom for passenger and bike2bike comms.  I am thinking of having it hard-wired and hidden, though they warn about signal degradation if installed under the tank or metal.  Maybe somewhere in the faring.

My wife has her own tunes and with either a mic jack (or a new Bluetooth mp3 player) she can have her own tunes on her headset and we still get convenient rider/passenger comms.

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: phato1 on October 01, 2013, 08:57:34 PM

Makes ya wanna go out and buy a new bike, doesn't it? ::)


I'm just getting my '11 set up the way I want it - no way am I starting over again...
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: SBB on October 01, 2013, 09:35:38 PM
I'm just getting my '11 11.5 set up the way I want it - no way am I starting over again...


X2





SBB






Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: OBB on October 01, 2013, 09:36:36 PM

X2





SBB






[/b]
Fixed that for ya Chip :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: porthole on October 01, 2013, 09:50:46 PM
I thought ALL dealers are philosophically supposed to give an extra hand to a stranded Harley owner, especially one with a frigging warranty. 


I'm pretty sure it is more then philosophical - like in their franchise agreement
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: ual767plt on October 02, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
Got the 'gouge' yesterday on the primary cause of coolant leaks, should you experience one.  The weak link is the thermostat.  It has a composite housing that is 'sonic' welded.  The fibrous material sometimes doesn't bond well during the weld process, and once the system is pressurized to 16psi, a leak occurs.  If it's a major leak, it doesn't take long to drain the coolant since the capacity is only one liter.  I was told there is a new thermostat design in the works, but we won't see it anytime soon.  The assembly line will get the new redesign first, and will only be available for repairs/replacement once the original inventory of thermostats is attritted. 
 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: FLHTCUSE7 on October 02, 2013, 10:43:13 AM
Thanks, good info.

Got the 'gouge' yesterday on the primary cause of coolant leaks, should you experience one.  The weak link is the thermostat.  It has a composite housing that is 'sonic' welded.  The fibrous material sometimes doesn't bond well during the weld process, and once the system is pressurized to 16psi, a leak occurs.  If it's a major leak, it doesn't take long to drain the coolant since the capacity is only one liter.  I was told there is a new thermostat design in the works, but we won't see it anytime soon.  The assembly line will get the new redesign first, and will only be available for repairs/replacement once the original inventory of thermostats is attritted. 
 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: scottt on October 02, 2013, 12:56:20 PM
Got the 'gouge' yesterday on the primary cause of coolant leaks, should you experience one.  The weak link is the thermostat.  It has a composite housing that is 'sonic' welded.  The fibrous material sometimes doesn't bond well during the weld process, and once the system is pressurized to 16psi, a leak occurs.  If it's a major leak, it doesn't take long to drain the coolant since the capacity is only one liter.  I was told there is a new thermostat design in the works, but we won't see it anytime soon.  The assembly line will get the new redesign first, and will only be available for repairs/replacement once the original inventory of thermostats is attritted. 
 

I wonder if this is already happening? My dealer fixed my 14 Limited by pulling the parts off a 14 Limited that had just come in from the factory. They replaced the vast majority of the parts including the thermostat. The MoCo sent the dealership new parts to replace those that they used on my bike. I have not had a issue since. Love the bike
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on October 04, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
Mine just puked coolant at 1380 miles.  Took it to the dealer and she puked all over the dealers floor too.  They removed the bottle cap, ran the bike for about 2.5 minutes and it shot coolant out all over my bike. I'm so freaking bummed right now. :( 
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: FLHTCUSE7 on October 04, 2013, 09:58:42 PM
Sorry man, that sucks. Hope they get it back on the road soon again
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: limited1432 on October 06, 2013, 01:53:56 AM
I have the 2014 ultra limited 2500 miles ....no problems......what a difference from my 2011.....
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: SDCVO on October 07, 2013, 12:30:08 AM
Guy I work with bought a Ultra which was his first Harley and he really stretched for the Ultra (I promised him it would be worth being broke all the time after he paid for it each month) and when he got it home the first time it leaked all over his garage. Been in service for almost 2 weeks since (I feel absolutely horrible) but supposed  to be done Tuesday. They told him their is a "fitting" issue that will end up being a recall because every one of them will end up leaking until they get it replaced and they are running out of the new part. They said the Moco pulled one off the assembly line for him so they could get him on the road...
ohh boy
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: kraut on October 07, 2013, 10:08:52 AM
there already is a Bulletin (http://www.abtmeyer-fricke.de/public/Diverses/TT430.pdf) about some sooling system issues.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: dlaws01 on October 08, 2013, 11:32:16 PM
Guy I work with bought a Ultra which was his first Harley and he really stretched for the Ultra (I promised him it would be worth being broke all the time after he paid for it each month) and when he got it home the first time it leaked all over his garage. Been in service for almost 2 weeks since (I feel absolutely horrible) but supposed  to be done Tuesday.




Good it was just some guy you work with instead of a friend.   :oops:
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: denis on October 09, 2013, 01:01:22 AM
my radio on my cvo ultra started cutting in and out dealer stated they know of the problem and moco is sending them a download to correct the problem  outherwise my 2014 runs great so far
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: CVO Aqua-Glider on October 09, 2013, 08:36:25 AM
my radio on my cvo ultra started cutting in and out dealer stated they know of the problem and moco is sending them a download to correct the problem  outherwise my 2014 runs great so far

Guy at my dealer said they've had hundreds of firmware updates, so I shouldn't be having any radio issues if I have the latest udpate.  I didn't have the heart to ask him to show me the latest update knowing there has only been 1 for my model.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: jaymedic44 on October 11, 2013, 07:51:45 PM
I have 1400 miles on mine and so far it has been perfect!
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: Texaco87 on November 03, 2013, 11:50:50 AM
Impressions, Part Deux…..
Once again, these are my impressions of the new features.  Opinions of others may differ.
Cons:

• Lack of Active Route Information, such as Time, Distance, or ETA to next turn point.  Can only display Time, Distance, and ETA to final destination.  Turn point info is provided only via voice prompts, which is problematic if you wish to mute it so it doesn’t continually interrupt your tunes.


If you go to set up for the Nav system there is check box for seeing next turn with the distance to next turn with direction of turn and the street name.
Title: Re: 2014 CVO Ultra problems
Post by: scottt on November 03, 2013, 12:37:34 PM
If you go to set up for the Nav system there is check box for seeing next turn with the distance to next turn with direction of turn and the street name.

Yesterday I took my lady on a ride using the GPS. Was able to easly set to senic route, it was great. Took us on back roads I had not rode before. Night and day improvement over 07 GPS. Was blown away how it showed the freeway lane choices.