Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 9 [All]

Author Topic: Lever's upgrade  (Read 14935 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Lever's upgrade
« on: December 21, 2011, 11:12:28 PM »

well i have started my winter project  with my cvo
i purchase  HPI 55mm throttle body to 58mm intake 1.8
5.3 injectors
Woods TW-8  Cams
SE 10.5 piston set
pro rivera pro clutch with tpp
fueling cam plate and oil pump
S&S  roller rockers and lifters, allready have there push rods
cometic .030 head gaskets
Headwork  by Hillside cycle
 few days ago my Indy  started tearing down  my motor ..found out @ approx 7,000 miles on bike i have approx  4 thousandth  runout on crank and my oil pump housing has alot of scaring
so to make along story  short  my lower end and my new SE pistons are on the way to Dark Horse   they are going to install timkin bearing replace the
rods cause the top end of the cvo rods are tapered and may be a weak leak   and my pistons will need some machine work to fit new rods
pro plug crank and balance all necessary stuff
Dyno Tunning will be done by "stroker"

 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 05:46:14 AM by Lever »
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 07:55:38 AM »

well i have started my winter project  with my cvo
i purchase  HPI 55mm throttle body to 58mm intake 1.8
5.3 injectors
Woods TW-8  Cams
SE 10.5 piston set
SE clutch spring
fueling cam plate and oil pump
S&S  roller rockers and lifters, allready have there push rods
cometic .030 head gaskets
Headwork  by Hillside cycle
 few days ago my Indy  started tearing down  my motor ..found out @ approx 7,000 miles on bike i have approx  4 thousandth  runout on crank and my oil pump housing has alot of scaring
so to make along story  short  my lower end and my new SE pistons are on the way to Dark Horse   they are going to install timkin bearing replace the
rods cause the top end of the cvo rods are tapered and may be a weak leak   and my pistons will need some machine work to fit new rods
pro plug crank and balance all necessary stuff
Dyno Tunning will be done by "stroker"

 

What's the bill gonna be for all this work?
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 07:21:26 PM »

plenty  trust me
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 08:05:40 PM »

plenty  trust me

Can you share a general range?
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 09:10:48 PM »

5,500-6,500   so far   may have to upgrade clutch and air filter system
oh btw this is why i have fueling cams and lifters for sale
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 09:16:52 PM by Lever »
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 10:44:20 PM »

5,500-6,500   so far   may have to upgrade clutch and air filter system
oh btw this is why i have fueling cams and lifters for sale

I think you'll enjoy the build as its very similar to mine (115hp 119ft lbs). That being said, if I had to do it over, I would have sold the stock motor and bought a 120R. Added, the 58MM TB, PV tuner, and a D&D Boarzilla and I would have spent about the same $ (after counting the $ from selling the stock engine) and I would have had about 15 more hp and 15 more ftlbs then building up the stock 110. Did you consider the 120R option?
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 08:36:44 PM »

really never thought of doing the 120r swap my original budget was approx 3500- 4500 dollars until  the news came about my crank  and oil pump
then i decided to pulled the trigger so to say  and  let dark horse do there magic
in the back of my head  i was kinda worried if the stock lower end would handle  this much up grade    heads, pistons throttle body etc
when my bike is done and back on the road I'm gonna feel real confident  that the weak points in the motor have been  corrected
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 11:58:11 PM »

really never thought of doing the 120r swap my original budget was approx 3500- 4500 dollars until  the news came about my crank  and oil pump
then i decided to pulled the trigger so to say  and  let dark horse do there magic
in the back of my head  i was kinda worried if the stock lower end would handle  this much up grade    heads, pistons throttle body etc
when my bike is done and back on the road I'm gonna feel real confident  that the weak points in the motor have been  corrected

Sounds like a good plan! Keep us posted.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 04:17:33 PM »

 Hillside heads are done  and being shipped out today  :orange:

Dark Horse  called  everything  is done  and shipped out today as well  :orange:
 
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

ob1

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182

    • CVO1: FLSTCUSE 2
    • CVO2: FLSTSE 1
    • CVO3: 2013 Custom FLHX
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 08:05:00 AM »

I know you can't wait as time inches closer.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 07:19:39 PM »

OK my lower end stuff came back from dark horse today   .....  all i can say is wow   my new rods look awesome compare to the OEM rods  SE pistons  look great  i will take pics Saturday and post on the forum  for all to see

i got give thumbs up to my Indy   
for taking the time and explaining the benefits Dark horse work of the pro plug on the flywheel new rods ,pistons machine work , balancing of the motor  and showing me the timkin bearing's   and on the other side of case there is this metal eyebrow piece holding the bearing in place or something like that .
most of my other parts  are in  today also.
my heads I'm hoping will be here Friday
 
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 07:04:44 AM »

You ought to see the heads today. :)
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 07:34:40 AM »

awesome Scott   i cant wait  to see them  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2012, 08:21:25 PM »

Hey Lever how is your build progressing.  Do your heads look like these?
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2012, 08:21:46 PM »

.
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 10:16:03 PM »

everything is going good so far ,most of my  parts are in .
I used my friends  camera to take pics over the weekend and i hope to be able to post them this week for everybody to see

Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

CVO2FIXUP

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • Canada Eh!!!
    • ON


    • CVO1: 2010 CVO Ultra Classic Riptide Blue.
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 07:40:12 PM »

everything is going good so far ,most of my  parts are in .
I used my friends  camera to take pics over the weekend and i hope to be able to post them this week for everybody to see



    I have bin waiting all week to see these photos of the build. Please post them already. I am having withdrawl overhear!!
Logged
I may be a head of cabbage, but I am ahead of you!!

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 08:40:51 PM »

i have the pics just having problem posting cause there are bigger then  2 megs  ... I'll  try to have this posted this weekend ;D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 06:56:09 AM by Lever »
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 09:24:37 PM »

ok i think i got it ...  here is a link to my   photobucket http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb296/Lever03/
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 09:30:57 PM by Lever »
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 09:31:54 PM »

my bike is going back together next week
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Boxman88

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 144

    • CVO1: 2016 CVO Road Glide Ultra
    • States
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2012, 09:44:08 PM »

When all said and done it would be nice to know what HP and Torque you get out of that build. I just did VH exhaust system, high compression pistons and cams and spent  $3000 on the complete package with a tune and have 119 Torque and 111 HP.
Logged
Charcoal Slate / Carbon Dust
HD Super Tuner / Custom Map
VH Power Duals / H.O. Slip On's
121 Torque 111 Hp
Progressive Monotubes Front
Progressive 944 Rear

CVO2FIXUP

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • Canada Eh!!!
    • ON


    • CVO1: 2010 CVO Ultra Classic Riptide Blue.
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2012, 01:10:23 PM »

  Ahhhh, now I can finally stop checking every day. That crank looks gooood.  I really wanted to see a pick of the ports.  Please post the dino results soon. Cheers.
Logged
I may be a head of cabbage, but I am ahead of you!!

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2012, 07:38:57 PM »

update, had to order special tools,they came in today ,  stop by the shop and i got to help installed the flywheel Assembly into the cases :orange:

motor  should be installed in bike frame by Saturday  I'm off this weekend  so i will take more pics  and post them on my photobucket for all to see
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

ob1

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182

    • CVO1: FLSTCUSE 2
    • CVO2: FLSTSE 1
    • CVO3: 2013 Custom FLHX
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2012, 09:19:43 PM »

Looking forward to seeing the results..
Logged

SG Racer

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG2, Black Diamond/ Inferno Orange
    • CVO2: 2005 SEEG, Cherry
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2012, 09:44:50 PM »

Nice.
Logged
D&D Fat Cat W/Ghost pipe
Custom leather seat
12" Yaffe Monkey Bagger Bars
SEPST
93Hp, 116Tq

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 06:04:30 PM »

ok i think i got it ...  here is a link to my   photobucket http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb296/Lever03/

just added more pics   ...motor in frame :orange:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2012, 08:48:42 PM »

well i stop by the shop on my way home from work   motor is complete  except for clutch,  intake and exhaust  :huepfenjump3:  and i gotta say it looks great  my Indy sent a person  to the bike show 
talk to rivera people  and i decide to use there clutch products  so i will have my new clutch Assembly
middle of next week 
also V&H has a new pipe coming out  its a  stepped header  stainless steel  with chrome shields i think its a H/O  pro pipe
that is what i was told ...so dont quote me on this  :)
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Bigjim1661

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Can you curl a harley?
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 10:20:05 PM »

...ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have your flywheels trued and welded AND ALWAYS have a Timkin bearing upgrade installed. You can fill a book with who does the best flywheel reinforcement. Dark Horse, BC Gerolamy (we use them ), or who ever, they are all better than the factory unwelded flywheels. My 2002 FLHT has a 95" motor, Woods 9 cams, S&S gear drive, Delkron plate, fueling pump, BC Gerolamy head work makes 119 hp and 129tq, after over 50,000 miles i am at .001 total pinion runout!  I have customer with a 2007 Glide in the shop now that has 11,000 miles and .031 run out on the pinion shaft! The guy did not listen and it took out his Fueling Oil pump and plate, his S&S gear drive, and his Woods cams. If he would have spent the extra $200 for the weld and true, $150 for the Timkin and sleeve, and 4 more hours labor, he would have had a bill of around $3800. Instead he spent $3000 to install all of his hot rod stuff 8 months ago and now another $3800 to replace it all the right way, that is $6800! Every set of HD factory flywheels are scissored or will scissor and can damage the pinion shaft, bearings, cam plate, oil pump, cams, tensioners or gear drive, and cases. I tell customers this every day "I will bet my labor, fluids, and gaskets that your fly wheels are out of factory specs." I have never had to eat my words or my labor. The problem is that the MOCO will only swap out fly wheels IF they see that they are out of true, with another set of weak flywheels. If you are building a motor or having factory warranty work done, insist that they have the wheels welded and trued before they install them. Easy ways for a novice mechanic to check the condition of the flywheels are to look for case leaks (wetness around the case half seam), pull the cam cover and look for metal, or with the cam cover removed  pull the plug wires and turn over the motor  and watch the pinion shaft ( the round shaft that spins at the bottom of the cam plate)to see if it is wobbling. If you see any of those symptoms, take her in! If i can help with any thing, let me know and i will do what i can...and mention the forum for the best deal i can get you. Big Jim
Logged

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2012, 07:06:52 AM »

well i stop by the shop on my way home from work   motor is complete  except for clutch,  intake and exhaust  :huepfenjump3:  and i gotta say it looks great  my Indy sent a person  to the bike show 
talk to rivera people  and i decide to use there clutch products  so i will have my new clutch Assembly
middle of next week 
also V&H has a new pipe coming out  its a  stepped header  stainless steel  with chrome shields i think its a H/O  pro pipe
that is what i was told ...so dont quote me on this  :)

HI John,
Did you folks fire that off?? :)
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 08:50:47 AM »

not yet scott...  waiting for my new clutch system  should be here on the 15th  ..bike is complete  except  for clutch
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2012, 09:46:12 AM »

We've recently seen the A.I.M. VPC 92T's backed up on their delivery dates.
Ended up with a Rivera Pro Clutch, for a New Fairfield, CT. clients 107"er, we just completed.
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2012, 11:44:34 AM »

yep thats what i odered rivera pro clutch with the ttp  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2012, 06:52:39 PM »

I had some problems with the Pro Clutch and the AIM together.   Ended up talking to Rivera at Daytona they were in JP Cycles and they said you are not supposed to use the AIM with their clutch.   They have a model that is supposed to work with it. 
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2012, 07:15:58 AM »

Correct.
Rivera has their own dedicated lock-up hat, for their clutch.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2012, 01:16:47 PM »

update   my Indy finished the bike and fired it up , doing the heat cycles   .... he says it sounds like a monster

after the heat  cycles are done   my bike heads to  stroker's  this Saturday  for motor break in  and tuning :orange:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2012, 07:19:03 AM »

John,
Those 8 cams, do have a distinct sound!!
Looking forward to what 'ol Jim Kennedy has to say!! :D
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »

Well i dropped off my bike at "Jim Kennedy's" place  as well as my friend's bike to.  after meeting Jim for the 1st time and talking with him in person, I feel very confindent that I'm gonna have a  truly  professional tune and wont be disappointed with the results
I went  over budget on this build but  omg  after i heard the motor run with out the tune it was well worth it

I will post results  as soon as i get them
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

mikegiotto

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101

    • CVO1: 2007 CVO ROADKING
    • CVO2: 2012 CVO STREET GLIDE
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2012, 08:16:43 PM »

I just missed you today. I was there picking up my bike today. Jim is a great guy you will be happy.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2012, 08:43:32 PM »

i think  we passed you  on the road  chevy truck  with black and silver twin axle  trailer
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2012, 06:14:36 AM »

John,
Hear anything from Jim? :)
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2012, 06:39:14 AM »

not yet Scott  , I'm gonna do a follow up call later in the week ...the suspense is killing me
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2012, 04:35:35 PM »

He'll ace it, John. :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2012, 06:40:31 PM »

well Jim put my bike is on the drum today and it's  all ready to go   for break in and tuning :huepfenjump3:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Black Diamond

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363

    • CVO1: 11 FLHXSE2 "Vanessa"
    • CVO2: 08 FLHRSE4 "Lexi" "Bike from Hell"
    • CVO3: 02 FLHRSEI "Ruby"
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2012, 09:09:47 PM »

well Jim put my bike is on the drum today and it's  all ready to go   for break in and tuning :huepfenjump3:

Stroker has done very well for me on two of my scoots. He's a no bs dude.

JW
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2012, 09:29:56 PM »

ok here's my #'s
125/122  STD
124/121  UNCORRECTED
121/119  SAE 
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Black Diamond

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363

    • CVO1: 11 FLHXSE2 "Vanessa"
    • CVO2: 08 FLHRSE4 "Lexi" "Bike from Hell"
    • CVO3: 02 FLHRSEI "Ruby"
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2012, 09:35:33 PM »

ok here's my #'s
125/122  STD
124/121  UNCORRECTED
121/119  SAE 

Good, solid numbers. He emailing you a dyno sheet?
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2012, 09:41:25 PM »

iam sure he will ..  will post it when i get it
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

ob1

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182

    • CVO1: FLSTCUSE 2
    • CVO2: FLSTSE 1
    • CVO3: 2013 Custom FLHX
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2012, 09:42:08 PM »

Should be a blast to ride
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2012, 10:23:04 PM »

Stroker has done very well for me on two of my scoots. He's a no BS dude.

JW


yea I'm very fortunate and greatfull to have  him tune my bike  its very hard to find a straight no BS shooter Jim will take the time and explain stuff to ya
Jim is my only tuner for my current bike and future
thank you very much Jim  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:50:27 PM by Lever »
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

ob1

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182

    • CVO1: FLSTCUSE 2
    • CVO2: FLSTSE 1
    • CVO3: 2013 Custom FLHX
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2012, 11:05:38 PM »

Real nice curve. Going to have Jim do a final tune on mine after i get some additional miles on her.
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Logged

Black Diamond

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363

    • CVO1: 11 FLHXSE2 "Vanessa"
    • CVO2: 08 FLHRSE4 "Lexi" "Bike from Hell"
    • CVO3: 02 FLHRSEI "Ruby"
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2012, 11:17:48 PM »

Is that his prediction of what the bike will pull on his dyno at about 22-1/2 hours from now?  Hahaha!

That was very helpful.


Lever - looks like a very nice tq curve. Enjoy.

JW
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2012, 11:42:35 PM »

(look at the timestamp on the sheets)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 11:46:17 PM by glens »
Logged

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2012, 06:22:42 AM »

 :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
Logged

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2012, 12:45:00 PM »

(look at the timestamp on the sheets)

Probably just a computer error.
Certainly nothing to sweat over. :)
Scott
Logged

SE113

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2012, 03:42:12 PM »

NICE Numbers. What gear was the final pull in?
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2012, 03:44:07 PM »

not sure will ask,,  BTW I'm running a 30th front sprocket
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Skillet

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3525

    • CVO1: 2011 FLHXSE2
    • CVO2: 2008 FLHR Road King
    • CVO3: 1980 FXB Sturgis
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2012, 03:46:58 PM »

Are you entering any stump pulling contests? I hope you will enjoy that beast.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2012, 04:09:35 PM »

lol my wife wants me to pull out the bushes  in front of the house  ....hmmmm
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

SBB

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16404
  • Go fast or go home! EBCM member # 2.36 .01%
    • CVO2: 2011.5 SEUC
    • CVO3: 2012 SERG
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2012, 04:16:05 PM »

lol my wife wants me to pull out the bushes  in front of the house  ....hmmmm

Lever, use a Goldwing for that. (Tow-wing maybe)
Wrapping chains around a Screamin Eagle will most likely mess up the paint.
Who cares on a Goldwing.

 ;D    ::)

SBB
Logged

2012      SERG  "Nu Blue"
2018      Goldwing   
2003      HD Electra Glide Classic Silver and Black, of course!                
2 2012   Suzuki Burgmans
2018      Shelby GT350, 963 crank hp, 825 rear wheel hp

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2012, 05:12:41 PM »

lol your right ,,,you have a good point there
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2012, 10:10:51 PM »

Real nice curve. Going to have Jim do a final tune on mine after i get some additional miles on her.

I'm  telling ya you wont be disappointed  well worth every penny  with Jim at the helm
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

SG Racer

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG2, Black Diamond/ Inferno Orange
    • CVO2: 2005 SEEG, Cherry
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2012, 02:47:17 AM »

Very nice results. Thanks for all the updates and photos. Great job.
 Ray
Logged
D&D Fat Cat W/Ghost pipe
Custom leather seat
12" Yaffe Monkey Bagger Bars
SEPST
93Hp, 116Tq

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2012, 05:43:37 AM »

thank you    I'm really looking forward to riding season now
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2012, 05:51:00 AM »

NICE Numbers. What gear was the final pull in?

pulls were done in 6th gear
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2012, 12:23:06 PM »

John,
We we tickled to be part, of your up-grade!!!! :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2012, 10:26:31 PM »

Scott sent ya  a pm  :bananarock:
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2012, 07:48:35 AM »

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/dyno%20sheets/dynosheets103.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/dyno%20sheets/dynosheets104.jpg



Lever, nice work on the Build. I think you're going to love the ride compared to stock. I had a very similar build done with Hillside Headwork, 5.3 injectors, 58mm TB and roller rockers. The only difference between my build and yours was the cam (Woods 408-6) and exhaust (D&D FatCat) and a larger air filter. The dyno profile is very similar.
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2012, 09:14:55 PM »

thanks heat she sure is fun to ride .....almost better then my...lol   just kiddin
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2012, 06:52:47 AM »

2 similar builds, 2 different dynos, similar numbers.
Where's the hyena's, and the lynch-mob now?  :P
Scott
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2012, 07:12:58 AM »

ok here's my #'s
125/122  STD
124/121  UNCORRECTED
121/119  SAE 

No question about it Scott. Here's 2 different bike's, on very different dyno's with similar builds showing very consistent dyno results.

Lever's 110" bike:
Hillside headwork
58mm SE TB
S&S roller rockers
Woods TW-8 cams
SE Pistons
5.3 injectors

125/122  STD
124/121  UNCORRECTED
121/119  SAE

My 110" bike:
Hillside headwork
58mm SE TB
SE roller rockers
Woods 408-6 cams
Stock Pistons
5.3 injectors

126/126  STD
129/129  UNCORRECTED
123/123  SAE 
 
Hard to argue against these very consistent results on bike's that were dynoed on different drums with different operators.
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2012, 09:25:45 AM »

The argument would be valid if it was the same bike on 2 different dyno's and were this close.  The only consistency here is finding two dynosheets for 110's that Hillside did in order to save his trolling business on this site.  Heatwave since your such a proponent take your bike elsewhere and run it on a reputable  dyno then post it up for comparison sake till then you found two dynosheets for a 110 that are similar.   Concern is one is known for inflated numbers due to issues with the dyno setup.  


« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:45:42 AM by Unbalanced »
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2012, 09:52:34 AM »

The argument would be valid if it was the same bike on 2 different dyno's and were this close.  The only consistency here is finding two dynosheets for 110's that Hillside did in order to save his trolling business on this site.  Heatwave since your such a proponent take your bike elsewhere and run it on a reputable  dyno then post it up for comparison sake till then you found two dynosheets for a 110 that are similar.   Concern is one is known for inflated numbers due to issues with the dyno setup.   

Dear Harold,
Heatwave's build came in at Joe's with low numbers, that were replicated there, upon looking at it, IN THE PRESENSE OF HEATWAVE, as per the others "tuners", tune.
Your response is right on par, and would/could not be expected to be anything less. Unadulterated BS.
2 similar builds, 2 different drums, 2 astute tuners. Verified, period.
BTW Joe's Cycle HAND-CARRIED his weather stack to Dynojet, in Las Vegas, on 1/20/12, on his dime, and their findings, in correlation with the serial number on this dyno, were that if ANYTHING, he was 1, or 2 low.
Put THAT in your pipe, and smoke it. :D
Scott
Logged

SBB

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16404
  • Go fast or go home! EBCM member # 2.36 .01%
    • CVO2: 2011.5 SEUC
    • CVO3: 2012 SERG
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2012, 09:57:00 AM »

Dear Harold,


Harold? Now that's funny.

 :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

SBB

Logged

2012      SERG  "Nu Blue"
2018      Goldwing   
2003      HD Electra Glide Classic Silver and Black, of course!                
2 2012   Suzuki Burgmans
2018      Shelby GT350, 963 crank hp, 825 rear wheel hp

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2012, 09:58:29 AM »

The argument would be valid if it was the same bike on 2 different dyno's and were this close.  The only consistency here is finding two dynosheets for 110's that Hillside did in order to save his trolling business on this site.  Heatwave since your such a proponent take your bike elsewhere and run it on a reputable  dyno then post it up for comparison sake till then you found two dynosheets for a 110 that are similar.   Concern is one is known for inflated numbers due to issues with the dyno setup.  




Sure, I'll take it to another dyno to satisfy your sense of skepticism as soon as you send me the $ for another dyno run. In the absence of you sending the money, I'm confident that others reading these graphs and the consistent performance they show across different dynos and different bikes can reach their own conclusion. A conclusion I suspect you will always doubt regardless of the facts presented. Safe riding to you and maybe one day you'll get to enjoy similar performance out of that 103".
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:02:18 AM by Heatwave »
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2012, 10:23:33 AM »

Heatwave my issue isn't with you its with the comparsion your making which isn't apples to apples.  Same bike 2 dyno's that is consistency.   Two bikes different days and different cams is nothing more than picking 2 bikes and saying ohhh look their close.     What facts?  The facts are that Joe's dyno is happy.   In either case its not my bike and I don't have to worry bout getting spanked.   As long as your happy it makes no difference except that unknowing people shouldn't be sucked in to these builds.   These builds were once touted as 130/130 walk in the park with the 110.   Where are those builds LOL .... they are in refund checks, back to the people.   Yeah ask Scott about those builds where he still holds the guys pipes and wouldnt return them.   Great vendor there.  They are just another part of Hillsides trolling on this site.

Joes dyno showed 120 hp and 119 torques .. .put the same bike on the dealers dyno and it made 104/109.  

« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:54:30 AM by Unbalanced »
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2012, 10:28:15 AM »

Heatwave my issue isn't with you its with the comparsion your making which isn't apples to apples.  Same bike 2 dyno's that is consistency.   Two bikes different days and different cams is nothing more than picking 2 bikes and saying ohhh look their close.     What facts?  The facts are that Joe's dyno is happy.   In either case its not my bike and I don't have to worry bout getting spanked.   As long as your happy it makes no difference except that unknowing people shouldn't be sucked in to these builds.   These builds were once touted as 130/130 walk in the park with the 110.   Where are those builds LOL .... they are in refund checks, back to the people.   Yeah ask Scott about those builds where he still holds the guys pipes and wouldnt return them.   Great vendor there.  They are just another part of Hillsides trolling on this site.

Joes dyno showed 120 hp and 119 torques .. .put the same bike on the dealers dyno and it made 104/109.   



Harold,
Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.
More non-truths, laced with half-baked BS.
BTW, Doc says Hi. :D
Scott
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2012, 10:34:08 AM »

Really Scotty  Half truths?   The denial is yours.   Above you will find the great Hillside 120/120 build tuned by Joe's run on an honest dyno.   Didnt bust a grape.  

Please tell Doc I said hello back.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:37:19 AM by Unbalanced »
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2012, 10:35:43 AM »

Your stuff is so lame I would imagine you walk with a limp............ :D
Logged

Wild Card

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462

    • CVO1: FXSTSSE3
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2012, 10:43:49 AM »

Children!  Keep it up and there will be no recess after lunch.   :sauer007:
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2012, 10:48:46 AM »

Dear Harold,
Heatwave's build came in at Joe's with low numbers, that were replicated there, upon looking at it, IN THE PRESENSE OF HEATWAVE, as per the others "tuners", tune.
Your response is right on par, and would/could not be expected to be anything less. Unadulterated BS.
2 similar builds, 2 different drums, 2 astute tuners. Verified, period.
BTW Joe's Cycle HAND-CARRIED his weather stack to Dynojet, in Las Vegas, on 1/20/12, on his dime, and their findings, in correlation with the serial number on this dyno, were that if ANYTHING, he was 1, or 2 low.
Put THAT in your pipe, and smoke it. :D
Scott

Taking the stack means nothing its the complete setup.   If he took the drum there and ended up 1 or 2 off maybe, but even DOC who you talk to will tell you its configured wrong, guess Doc doesnt know what he is talking about either huh.   You need to learn about the setup of dyno's and drum weight.    The only thing verified is that he took the stack to vegas.
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2012, 11:48:01 AM »

Guys this foolish banter has no other purpose than to kill this thread. So let me just suggest that everyone move on. We can all agree on the facts that are clear and irrefutable on the following points:

- Lever's thrilled with the performance of his build
- I'm thrilled with the performance of my build
- Both builds start with newer HD 110" engines
- Both builds use Hillside headwork
- Both builds use roller rockers
- Both builds use 58mm TBs
- Both builds use 5.3 SE injectors
- Both builds use relatively aggressive Woods Cams (Lever TW-8, mine 408-6)
- Both builds have different exhaust
- Both builds generated similar dyno results
- Both builds generated great HP & Tq that was far above stock and higher than many other combinations used on 110 engines

These facts would be useful information to anyone thinking about building more power from their stock 110". And these facts cannot be disputed.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 11:49:49 AM by Heatwave »
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2012, 11:53:27 AM »

Guys this foolish banter has no other purpose than to kill this thread. So let me just suggest that everyone move on. We can all agree on the facts that are clear and unrefutable on the following points:

- Lever's thrilled with the performance of his build
- I'm thrilled with the performance of my build
- Both builds start with newer HD 110" engines
- Both builds use Hillside headwork
- Both builds use roller rockers
- Both builds use 58mm TBs
- Both builds use 5.3 SE injectors
- Both builds use relatively aggressive Woods Cams (Lever TW-8, mine 408-6)
- Both builds have different exhaust
- Both builds generated similar dyno results
- Both builds generated great HP & Tq that was far above stock and higher than many other combinations used on 110 engines

These facts would be useful information to anyone thinking about building more power from their stock 110". And these facts cannot be disputed.

Different cams, different exhaust, similiar results based on a dyno that is suspect at best.   

The above dynosheet is woods aggressive cams, hillside heads, borzilla , 58mm, SE injectors, SEST and a 110 so where is the consistency there.   

Since you are looking for imperical data when you bring yours to a 2nd dyno and backup your numbers then we can consider this.   

Your arguement just fell apart on top of it Scott did the build on the above 110 motor.    Explain away
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »

Heatwave my issue isn't with you its with the comparsion your making which isn't apples to apples.  Same bike 2 dyno's that is consistency.   Two bikes different days and different cams is nothing more than picking 2 bikes and saying ohhh look their close.     What facts?  The facts are that Joe's dyno is happy.   In either case its not my bike and I don't have to worry bout getting spanked.   As long as your happy it makes no difference except that unknowing people shouldn't be sucked in to these builds.   These builds were once touted as 130/130 walk in the park with the 110.   Where are those builds LOL .... they are in refund checks, back to the people.   Yeah ask Scott about those builds where he still holds the guys pipes and wouldnt return them.   Great vendor there.  They are just another part of Hillsides trolling on this site.

Joes dyno showed 120 hp and 119 torques .. .put the same bike on the dealers dyno and it made 104/109.  



If Joe's dyno is "happy", why then did my baseline dyno results (which I have posted before) show nearly the same hp and tq as the dyno results done 200 miles away with a different operator almost a full year apart? I was standing with Joe when he made the baseline dyno run and he had no clue about my earlier dyno results.
Logged

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2012, 12:00:42 PM »

Guys this foolish banter has no other purpose than to kill this thread. So let me just suggest that everyone move on. We can all agree on the facts that are clear and irrefutable on the following points:

- Lever's thrilled with the performance of his build
- I'm thrilled with the performance of my build
- Both builds start with newer HD 110" engines
- Both builds use Hillside headwork
- Both builds use roller rockers
- Both builds use 58mm TBs
- Both builds use 5.3 SE injectors
- Both builds use relatively aggressive Woods Cams (Lever TW-8, mine 408-6)
- Both builds have different exhaust
- Both builds generated similar dyno results
- Both builds generated great HP & Tq that was far above stock and higher than many other combinations used on 110 engines

These facts would be useful information to anyone thinking about building more power from their stock 110". And these facts cannot be disputed.

Well said, from the words of a gentleman! :2vrolijk_21:
Harold,
It would behoove you to take a lesson, in manners, from folks like this.
I will no longer entertain this type of horse-hockey, with you.
Have at it, and go ahead and continue your apparent hate-fueled, cyber smear campaign.
Have already contacted the moderators here, on this message board,(as I have had to to in regards to you, on other boards as well) once again.
I supposed if you were not hammering on us, you'd just find someone/something else.
Carry on.
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2012, 12:10:07 PM »

Different cams, different exhaust, similiar results based on a dyno that is suspect at best.  

The above dynosheet is woods aggressive cams, hillside heads, borzilla , 58mm, SE injectors, SEST and a 110 so where is the consistency there.  

Since you are looking for imperical data when you bring yours to a 2nd dyno and backup your numbers then we can consider this.  

Your arguement just fell apart on top of it Scott did the build on the above 110 motor.    Explain away


Let's see:

Lever's bike:
2010 HD 110" motor
Hillside Headwork
roller rockers
5.3 injectors
58mm TB
Woods TW-8 Cam
V&H HO Propipe
121/119 SAE

My Bike:
2010 HD 110" motor
Hillside Headwork
roller rockers
5.3 injectors
58mm TB
Woods 408-6 Cam
D&D FatCat (not a Boarzilla)
123/123 SAE (on a different dyno and different operator from the results on Lever's bike)

And you really don't think these engine builds and results are comparable????? Geeeeez.  I smell some envy in the air and it's not a pleasant smell.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 12:12:09 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2012, 12:15:14 PM »

You mean
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2012, 12:19:30 PM »

Sorry no envy, while it might be nice for you and that is great, its not what I am after.  I do think Levers is comparible, but not anything from Joes.   I spent some time looking, but all i found was the above dynoseet, I wasnt able to find the 123/123 dynosheet done not on Joe's could you post that?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 12:21:07 PM by Unbalanced »
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2012, 12:36:05 PM »

You mean

Here you go... (no smoothing) Do you still think they're not comparable showing consistent results? If so you really are just covering your eyes like a little kid that thinks he can't be seen by doing so.

I never said I had 123/123 on a dyno different from Joe's. I said joe got the same results as my earlier dyno when he ran his baseline before tuning.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 12:37:50 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2012, 12:47:58 PM »

Wow!

The dyno (any dyno) is first and foremost a tool which enables one, who can operate it consistently, to see if adjustments/changes either were for the better or for the worse.  Beyond that, they (especially the inertia dynos) really aren't worth much.  Certainly not to generate portable (as in comparable with other dynos) power output graphs with which to assign hard numbers to the amount of power produced.

The most anybody can say about their inertia dyno graph is "look where my power gets made in the RPM range" and arguably to a lesser extent "how it compares to before whatever changes I made".  I ride my bike solely on the public roads so don't personally understand it, but some folks like more on the right side of the graph.  Some like more on the left.  Some like to split the difference.

Lever, I'm glad you're happy with your results and hope that you continue to be happy as the miles roll on.  The rest of this thread is somewhat fun to read, but also not.

Heatwave, it's evidently easy to duplicate results but it's evidently easy to manipulate them as well.  It wouldn't surprise me for an operator to achieve somewhat "common" results at the start and more "glamorous" results at the end.  A lot of women do similarly when preparing to go out for the evening.
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2012, 01:12:03 PM »

Here you go... (no smoothing) Do you still think they're not comparable showing consistent results? If so you really are just covering your eyes like a little kid that thinks he can't be seen by doing so.

I never said I had 123/123 on a dyno different from Joe's. I said joe got the same results as my earlier dyno when he ran his baseline before tuning.

Heatwave,

I would tend to disagree with you that 104/110 is close to 111/114 especially when the graph only reaches these numbers due to no smoothing then in the middle the dyno graph is well not anywhere close to the original one I reposted above that you had done.   People spend lots of money for that hp number and 7 to 8 hp is not a small significance.   Would figure with smoothing this is 102/108 a far cry different.  The shapes of the curve are way different and the same cam should relinquish similiar curve.  The other thing to note is on the tramontin dyno you are peaking at 4000 rpms with a nice steady upgrade on Joes you are losing ground and peaked at 3500.   My guess is tramontin is probably a good representation for your build and while there maybe a few more in there, but its right in the hunt.   Also note there are no correction factors on Joe's dynosheet. 
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2012, 01:23:14 PM »

Wow!

The dyno (any dyno) is first and foremost a tool which enables one, who can operate it consistently, to see if adjustments/changes either were for the better or for the worse.  Beyond that, they (especially the inertia dynos) really aren't worth much.  Certainly not to generate portable (as in comparable with other dynos) power output graphs with which to assign hard numbers to the amount of power produced.

The most anybody can say about their inertia dyno graph is "look where my power gets made in the RPM range" and arguably to a lesser extent "how it compares to before whatever changes I made".  I ride my bike solely on the public roads so don't personally understand it, but some folks like more on the right side of the graph.  Some like more on the left.  Some like to split the difference.

Lever, I'm glad you're happy with your results and hope that you continue to be happy as the miles roll on.  The rest of this thread is somewhat fun to read, but also not.

Heatwave, it's evidently easy to duplicate results but it's evidently easy to manipulate them as well.  It wouldn't surprise me for an operator to achieve somewhat "common" results at the start and more "glamorous" results at the end.  A lot of women do similarly when preparing to go out for the evening.

I suppose that's true for any dyno operator that might be less than scrupulous. But I really don't understand the animosity and skepticism being displayed. Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. I get my bike tuned at another shop a year ago and the results are 111/115 SAE.


The bike runs well but I believe there's more "left on the table". So I take the bike to Joe's and while I"M STANDING THERE he does a baseline dyno run. He has no idea what the bike is capable of. The baseline comes back at 111/114, once again while I'm standing next to Joe on the bike with ear covers watching the screen. Is it that unreasonable to conclude that these 2 dyno runs, made 200 miles and a year apart by 2 different operators can reasonably be interpreted as the dyno's are showing consistent results. What the h*ll other interpretation can there be??

Then I get Joe's final tune and it comes back as 129/129 actual and 123/123 SAE. This is not a complicated story and the results speak for themselves even if other's feel a need to come up with some incredible fantasy to suggest otherwise.

And then on top of everything else, another biker (Lever) has almost the exact same work done and gets dyno results of 121/119 SAE as measured on a different dyno run by a different tuner. Are you kidding me??? Of course this demonstrates a constent outcome of a strong combination of parts that work well together in a 110" tuned by a competent tuner. Any other conclusion is from a mind with an ulterior motive IMO.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 03:24:36 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2012, 01:26:59 PM »

Well said, from the words of a gentleman! :2vrolijk_21:
Harold,
It would behoove you to take a lesson, in manners, from folks like this.
I will no longer entertain this type of horse-hockey, with you.
Have at it, and go ahead and continue your apparent hate-fueled, cyber smear campaign.
Have already contacted the moderators here, on this message board,(as I have had to to in regards to you, on other boards as well) once again.
I supposed if you were not hammering on us, you'd just find someone/something else.
Carry on.

Scotty ever think maybe it is you and your business practices that cause this on sites and not just this one and not just me.  

For instance
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/v-twin-forum-general-harley-talk/153585-hillside-sponsor-info-rule-changes.html    

Ohh thats right you cant read it because your banned for always being in the middle of the controversary.

an excerp for you.

Over the years during their sponsorship, a majority of all the controversy on this forum has revolved around Hillside in some way. It was Hillside and GMR. It was Hillside and Joe's dyno. It was Hillside and Hyperformance. It was Hillside and dyno sheets. It was Hillside and R&R. It came down to one common denominator, Hillside. Regardless of fault, they seem to always be in the thick of it. This wears on everyone. Many do not realize but since Hillside became a sponsor here we have received more complaints about them than any other sponsor or member - not complaints about the work they do or their integrity, but their posting habits, their comments and the controversy that surrounds them. I know the Admin gave a lot of consideration to all of this before deciding to drop Hillside as a sponsor. Contrary to popular belief, it is not always about money and certainly wasn't in this case.
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2012, 01:30:54 PM »

I suppose that's true for any dyno operator that might be less than scrupulous. But I really don't understand the animosity and skepticism being displayed. Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. I get my bike tuned at another shop a year ago and the results are 111/115 SAE.


The bike runs well but I believe there's more "left on the table". So I take the bike to Joe's and while I"M STANDING THERE he does a baseline dyno run. He has no idea what the bike is capable of. The baseline comes back at 111/114, once again while I'm standing next to Joe on the bike with ear covers watching the screen. Is it that unreasonable to conclude that these 2 dyno runs, made 200 miles and a year apart by 2 different operators can reasonably be interpreted as the dyno's are showing consistent results. What the h*ll other interpretation can there be??

Then I get Joe's final tune abd it comes back as 129/129 actual and 123/123 SAE. This is not a complicated story and the results speak for themselves even if other's feel a need to come up with some incredible fantasy to suggest otherwise.

And then on top of everything else, another biker (Lever) has almost the exact same work done and gets dyno results of 121/119 SAE as measured on a different dyno run by a different tuner. Are you kidding me??? Of course this demonstrates a constent outcome of a strong combination of parts that work with with a 110" tuned by a competent tuner. Any other conclusion is from a mind with an ulterior motive IMO.


Heatwave,

Where do you see a base line of 111/114 ....   its not there.   I blew the dynosheet up its 104/110   please point it out to me you posted it and that is unsmoothed giving you some extra.
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2012, 01:33:39 PM »

Heatwave,

I would tend to disagree with you that 104/110 is close to 111/114 especially when the graph only reaches these numbers due to no smoothing then in the middle the dyno graph is well not anywhere close to the original one I reposted above that you had done.   People spend lots of money for that hp number and 7 to 8 hp is not a small significance.   Would figure with smoothing this is 102/108 a far cry different.  The shapes of the curve are way different and the same cam should relinquish similiar curve.  The other thing to note is on the tramontin dyno you are peaking at 4000 rpms with a nice steady upgrade on Joes you are losing ground and peaked at 3500.   My guess is tramontin is probably a good representation for your build and while there maybe a few more in there, but its right in the hunt.   Also note there are no correction factors on Joe's dynosheet.  

To be honest I wanted the graph without "smoothing". Too many dyno operators try to mask a poor tune with smoothing. I'm not suggesting that about Tramontin but as I learned more, I would always want my dyno results printed without "smoothing". O smoothing will "really" tell you the quality of the overall engine performance with a particular tuning map.

And the riding difference between the much older Tramontin tune and my latest tune from Joe is like night & day. They simply aren't even remotely close to the same performance. It is not an exaggeration in the least to suggest the performance after Joe's tuning is superior in every way imagineable. Take off, top end, low rpm acceleration, parking lot maneuvaribility, sheer wicked acceleration. The tramontin dyno is from a map that always felt like the bike had a sock stuck in the TB. The bike runs now like it is always ready to stand up and bite when asked to. Suggesting the Tramontin map represents the true performance is simply ridiculous. Forget about the graphs they are irrelevant when compared with the saddle performance differences.

There's not a rider worth his "salt" that wouldn't feel the difference and more importantly be shocked by the difference.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 03:26:16 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

naitram

  • SMF Administrator
  • 10K CVO Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12662
    • MA


    • CVO1: FLTRXSE2 "Marvin"
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2012, 01:44:59 PM »

give it a rest guys. this thread is supposed to be about levers upgrade.
Logged
:cool26: naitram...


"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
"Work is the curse of the drinking class."

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2012, 01:48:24 PM »

Heatwave,

I am not contesting any of what you just said about how you feel the bike runs, just the numbers you represented as close to the same which they aren't.   You compare smoothing 5 with smoothing 0 and numbers that are off as well as a curve that is off.  I believe you will find that while you like the way the bike runs that Joe's tune, that numbers on a more reputible dyno will be closer to the numbers from the HD dealer.  
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2012, 01:49:44 PM »

Sure Neal np.
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2012, 01:50:28 PM »

Heatwave,

Where do you see a base line of 111/114 ....   its not there.   I blew the dynosheet up its 104/110   please point it out to me you posted it and that is unsmoothed giving you some extra.

I have no clue what you're talking about. The dyno shows the max performance before Tramontin's tune at 104/108 and after their tune 111/115.
Logged

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2012, 01:52:29 PM »

Joe's dyno and baseline as compared to your original.

Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

PASN YU

  • Ride Hard
  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163

    • CVO1: 2012 FLHXSE3 Ruby Red/Typhoon Maroon
    • CVO2: 2019 FLTRXSE Mako Shark
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2012, 02:09:21 PM »

Bench racing is great! Makes me laugh.   :huepfenlol2:
Logged
Trust, but verify.

Unbalanced

  • FUD Examiner
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6708

    • CVO1: 2011 SESG,
    • CVO2: 2004 SEEG Pumpkin,
    • CVO3: 2002 Police Roadking, Maudie and Maybelle Slayer
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2012, 02:10:38 PM »

Heatwave,

Here is the link where you posted your dynosheet from tramontins.   All I did was copy it forward.

You should report yourself to the moderators for posting it if you didnt want your name posted.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=56035.msg805838#msg805838

you can use this one to replace the others where your name still resides.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 02:43:49 PM by Unbalanced »
Logged
HBRR Florida Chapter,  STILL - The Fastest Chapter - Proven yet again Bikeweek 2017

Mr. Warlock

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 781

    • CVO1: 2014 CVO Limited - unnamed
    • CVO2: 2011 Softail Convertable "Bourbon Betty" - Traded
    • CVO3: 2005 SE FatBoy - Sold
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2012, 02:24:09 PM »

I am in no way dis-ing anyones build nor am I trying to jump on Levers thread..... I hope everyone is enjoying there builds!! I know I am.

Pert. information to the discussion though......... Levers bike has a 30T front and was done in 6th gear.
Logged
Lived hard and fast, laughed harder than humans have a right to and continue to do so.

Eagle Eye

  • THE EAGLE HAS LANDED!
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1445
  • Every day is a great day to ride!

    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUE2 Ultra Classic - Light Candy Cherry and Black Ice
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2012, 03:06:29 PM »

Lever...hope it runs like a bat outta hell for you.  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
Ken2
Vietnam Vet
Spec-5
Medic
US Army

Trapperdog

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2965

    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2
    • CVO2: 2009 ST1300 Police
    • CVO3: 2006 ST1300
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2012, 04:07:15 PM »

 :vrolijk_11:
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2012, 04:12:07 PM »

Once again, congrats to Lever on a very nice build. Enjoy...I know exactly how much fun you're having. And now others know exactly how to turn their tame 110" into the same kinda fun-riding beast!
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2012, 07:21:05 PM »

I get my bike tuned at another shop a year ago and the results are 111/115 SAE.


The bike runs well but I believe there's more "left on the table". So I take the bike to Joe's and while I"M STANDING THERE he does a baseline dyno run. He has no idea what the bike is capable of. The baseline comes back at 111/114, once again while I'm standing next to Joe on the bike with ear covers watching the screen. Is it that unreasonable to conclude that these 2 dyno runs, made 200 miles and a year apart by 2 different operators can reasonably be interpreted as the dyno's are showing consistent results. What the h*ll other interpretation can there be??

Look, you state the first set is SAE.  Fine.  But no information as to the level of "smoothing".  Then you say the subsequent baseline is nearly the same numbers, but don't specify what sort of, if any, correction is applied, nor what level of smoothing.  Since the numbers are made up out of thin air anyway (yes, they are), I guess it's possibly a testament to consistency between dynos and the mechanisms/algorithms at play.  But there's too little information provided to really come to that conclusion, right?

Quote
Then I get Joe's final tune and it comes back as 129/129 actual and 123/123 SAE. This is not a complicated story and the results speak for themselves even if other's feel a need to come up with some incredible fantasy to suggest otherwise.

The "actual" numbers aren't "actual" in any event, and without correction factors for air temperature and pressure (SAE) any numbers are especially meaningless.  You wouldn't want to perform a baseline in "actual", then work on the bike and later in the day perform a comparison run again in "actual".  At least not unless your dyno room is temperature and pressure controlled at least.

I wonder what sort of tune the original tuner could provide on that same bike now after this time has passed and the engine has broken in more completely.  I'm not raggin' on Joe (I don't have a clue who he is) or on his dyno.  I guess it could be said I'm raggin' on reported dyno numbers in general.  They really are meaningless and if you understood (better?) the how and the why of it then life would evidently be a little easier for you.  I say that based upon what I've seen here today.  It looks like you're a bit worked up.  I think it's a shame because it's unnecessary.

There are way too many numbers and charts being thrown around for me to follow this well.  Also a factor is that I really don't understand the mindset.  If a bike is tuned well and it operates well, that's the only proof that matters.
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2012, 08:31:48 PM »

Look, you state the first set is SAE.  Fine.  But no information as to the level of "smoothing".  Then you say the subsequent baseline is nearly the same numbers, but don't specify what sort of, if any, correction is applied, nor what level of smoothing.  Since the numbers are made up out of thin air anyway (yes, they are), I guess it's possibly a testament to consistency between dynos and the mechanisms/algorithms at play.  But there's too little information provided to really come to that conclusion, right?

The "actual" numbers aren't "actual" in any event, and without correction factors for air temperature and pressure (SAE) any numbers are especially meaningless.  You wouldn't want to perform a baseline in "actual", then work on the bike and later in the day perform a comparison run again in "actual".  At least not unless your dyno room is temperature and pressure controlled at least.

I wonder what sort of tune the original tuner could provide on that same bike now after this time has passed and the engine has broken in more completely.  I'm not raggin' on Joe (I don't have a clue who he is) or on his dyno.  I guess it could be said I'm raggin' on reported dyno numbers in general.  They really are meaningless and if you understood (better?) the how and the why of it then life would evidently be a little easier for you.  I say that based upon what I've seen here today.  It looks like you're a bit worked up.  I think it's a shame because it's unnecessary.

There are way too many numbers and charts being thrown around for me to follow this well.  Also a factor is that I really don't understand the mindset.  If a bike is tuned well and it operates well, that's the only proof that matters.

What is it with some of you guys? It's one attack after another. I tried to share my data that aligns well with the OPs build and performance and some of you want to turn it all into some mission against Hillside and Joe's tuning. Give it a rest. I was trying to help the next guy out with some data that supports the performance that Lever has experienced with his latest build. I could care less if others accept it or not. I've tried to answer questions where I had additional information that might help others. If it doesn't align with your preconceived views, feel free to move on. To those that are interested, I hope the additional information is helpful.

I've posted the data that's available and it strongly aligns to Lever's performance, and some of you just can't accept the dyno graphs and performance experienced.

The level of smoothing is going to have very little to do with peak #s. Smoothing on the graph will hide or show overall tuning flaws. It also makes the chart easier to read but getting overly hung up on what smoothing factor was applied is absurd. I happen to prefer seeing the graph with smoothing set to "0", but that's just me.

"Actual" is a "real term" that is printed on the graph of a DJ dyno and smply means there's no correction. It's the "actual" dyno performance with the temp, barometric pressure and humidity at the time of the run. That makes it the "actual" graph.

Given your self-professed "limited understanding" of dyno graphs, why would the topic even matter to you? Just because you think your bike is running well, doesn't necessarily mean its running as well as it can. In the absence of dyno runs where variables are considered, you'll never know if you bike is running at 90% of its capability or 50% of its capability. I suppose for some, not knowing what you're missing is best. For others, trying to maximize the performance of their bike is both a hobby and a mission. If you're riding a mostly stock bike, I doubt you can understand that perspective.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 08:45:50 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2012, 08:39:17 PM »

yea my bike runs very well thanks  ....still kinda baby it with the new belt ...for those that don't know i broke my belt ...after talking to my Indy , i think it was a combo of things, the dyno runs that had been done on the bike( not stroker's place  ) but a nother place near my hd dealership .. and maybe a def. belt and my fault as well for not keeping the belt properly  adjusted at all times

now when my bike was tuned  it was a brand new motor  less then 20 miles  on her ..it was broken in on Stroker's dyno ,tuned etc what i may do later this summer  is have the tune rechecked and dyno'd again when i have a couple of thousand miles on her  and see if there is any changes ?

i do have the 30th front gear and yes pulls where done in 6th gear  not sure if that plays in any part of the dyno sheet or not  
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2012, 08:43:45 PM »

yea my bike runs very well thanks  ....still kinda baby it with the new belt ...for those that don't know i broke my belt ...after talking to my Indy , i think it was a combo of things, the dyno runs that had been done on the bike( not stroker's place  ) but a nother place near my hd dealership .. and maybe a def. belt and my fault as well for not keeping the belt properly  adjusted at all times

now when my bike was tuned  it was a brand new motor  less then 20 miles  on her ..it was broken in on Stroker's dyno ,tuned etc what i may do later this summer  is have the tune rechecked and dyno'd again when i have a couple of thousand miles on her  and see if there is any changes ?

i do have the 30th front gear and yes pulls where done in 6th gear  not sure if that plays in any part of the dyno sheet or not   

Just curious. Did you replace with a stock HD belt or are there aftermarket upgrades for the belt? Did the belt break while riding on the road or on the dyno? Was the belt replacement covered under warranty?
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #111 on: April 24, 2012, 08:58:50 PM »

What is it with some of you guys? It's one attack after another.

Not any attacks on my part.

Quote
Smoothing on the graph will hide or show overall tuning flaws.

The graph is WOT, which is a very small part of overall tuning, and truth be told probably the least-used condition the engine ever sees.  I think you're thinking something other than what you're saying?

Quote
"Actual" is a "real term" ... the "actual" graph.

I never said otherwise.  What I said was the numbers are not actual.  They're made up.  A best-guess approximation.

Quote
Given your self-professed "limited understanding" of dyno graphs, why would the topic even matter to you?

Now you're just arguing for the sake of doing it?  I doubt I professed to limited understanding.  Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

I'll bow out now and leave the last word to you if you want it.  There were some question marks in my reply but I didn't really mean them to be questions that I want or need an answer to at this time.  You're obviously in a defensive mode today.  If you review my posts at a later date perhaps you'll see them more along the lines I'd meant them.  That would be nice...
Logged

Lever

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1482
  • keep the rubber side down
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #112 on: April 24, 2012, 09:01:58 PM »

it was  after market belt ..Falcon   ...broke it on my way to work ... i felt froggy and really twisted the throttle  ..no warranty on belt i refused to let  the dealership work on my bike cause i don't want a bunch of people  riding my bike
I'm sure it happens ...  you bring your hot rod in to the shop and leave it there for work to be done ...  u know there are gonna to test ride and the shop will come alive ...saying wow you need to test ride this bike its fast its gotta be 1 of the fastest bike I've riddin... other guy says no way ..let me test ride it .... you get the picture  now   ...only my Indy and stroker have touched my completed  bike and i hope to keep it that way for a long time
Logged
2010 CVO Convertible  crimson red sunglo/Autumn Haze with Metal Grind Graphics
2014 113  motor 10.8 compression
SAE smoothing #5  125.7 hp / 122.9 tq
2017 Road King M8
stage IV

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #113 on: April 24, 2012, 10:26:48 PM »

Not any attacks on my part.

The graph is WOT, which is a very small part of overall tuning, and truth be told probably the least-used condition the engine ever sees.  I think you're thinking something other than what you're saying?

I never said otherwise.  What I said was the numbers are not actual.  They're made up.  A best-guess approximation.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of doing it?  I doubt I professed to limited understanding.  Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

I'll bow out now and leave the last word to you if you want it.  There were some question marks in my reply but I didn't really mean them to be questions that I want or need an answer to at this time.  You're obviously in a defensive mode today.  If you review my posts at a later date perhaps you'll see them more along the lines I'd meant them.  That would be nice...

I've been riding motorcycles for 40 years and involved with dyno tuning efi bikes since some of the first HD efi's came on the market. I've done a fair amount of my own tuning with SEST and SEPST with Smarttune and PowerVision's log tuner. I know the difference between WOT dyno graphs and how little they impact every day riding. That's why if I do pay for a dyno tune I expect a cruise graph that show's the afr for both cyl in additional to wot. This is not to be defensive but simply responding to questions you've asked.

The #s on a dyno are not "made up". They represent algorithyms that attempt to reflect the physics involved with power generation and then applying it to the ground. I also have had my efi performance boat engine tuned (640hp) and the physics are the same. Essentially the question is whether the timing and fuel mixture can be optimized to maximize the performance of an engine's physical capacity. The fat and happy folks riding their bikes and satisfied with their performance without knowing if it's maximized....well ignorance may be bliss for them. For guy's like me that want to improve the performance and are willing to spend the money on engine improvements, there's is no alternative (at least today) to a dyno for optimizing fuel, air and timing to get the most power from a particular engine build. Most guy's won't and don't get it. You appear to be in that group and there's nothing wrong with that.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:34:06 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2012, 11:25:28 PM »

Maybe it's not true, I don't know, I wasn't there.

"One of the biggest headaches of Dynojet's go-it-alone chassis-dyno project was figuring out how to assign meaningful power numbers in the face of unknown inertia from the moving parts of the hundreds or thousands of engine, drivetrain, and tire combinations.  Wrestling to fully understand inertia and powertrain losses, Dobeck and his team quickly realized that the standard physics formula of weight, time, and distance for converting acceleration into horsepower simply didn't work-the derived number was always lower than accepted numbers.  They poured on resources and burned up time and money investigating it, but no matter what they did, the math never added up.

Dynojet's final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200cc Yamaha VMax.  The VMax had 145 advertised factory horsepower, which was far above the raw 90hp number spit out by the formula.  Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120.  Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so that the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax.  And that was that: For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number.  Dobeck's engineering staff was dismayed by the decision, but the Dynojet 100 exclusively measured surplus power available to accelerate the vehicle's mass-no more, no less-and that was true even if the modification was a low-inertia flywheel or lightweight wheels.  As long as the inertial dyno's numbers were repeatable, the critical question (did a particular modification make the engine accelerate faster or slower?) would be answered correctly."

from http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/113_0603_dynojet_chassis_dyno/viewall.html

So what's changed?

If you used a DC or variable-frequency AC motor and could directly measure the power, I would pay attention to the numbers.  At any rate, nothing you said in apparently attempting to show me in error was successful because you didn't address what I'd said.  You set up straw men then knocked them down.

I doubt you're any more anal about wanting things right than I am, but you know what?  I know for a fact my bike ain't set up to deliver the most power it can at WOT.  I don't care.  I have it set up instead to be spot-on in all the places I actually use it.

I don't recall seeing any part-throttle graphs posted, nor anybody else mentioning them, so I wonder why it is you brought them up...
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #115 on: April 25, 2012, 06:47:38 AM »

I think you've made MY point.

First, for those that don't care to optimize their engine for maximum performance, then upgrades don't matter and neither does dyno-tuning. Guys riding stock bikes or nearly stock bikes aren't going to care about dynos or maximizing engine performance. And clearly you fall into this camp as do the vast majority of bikers and bikes on the road. Once again nothing wrong with that.

Maxmized engine performance is not only about WOT. If a tuner is only optimizing a bike at WOT then he's ripping you off. I always get a cruise dyno graph at 3000 rpms and have posted them before. Go look them up if you're interested. It will tell you if you're afr is set to balance both performance and fuel economy and generally should be leaner in both cylinders than the afr at WOT.

Secondly, in the quote above there's only one sentence that matters "As long as the inertial dyno's numbers were repeatable, the critical question (did a particular modification make the engine accelerate faster or slower?) would be answered correctly."

And that is the point of DJ's dyno products. It uses algorithyms and physics and formulas to calculate against a standard. The standard simply doesn't matter. It is not trying to compare the "actual" hp to any other device other than one that can rotate it's drum. So its measurement of hp and tq is NOT comparable to a rocket engine or a rototiller but only to other motorcycles or devices that can properly rotate it's dyno drum. Get it? So a dyno allows the user to make adjustments to efi engine parameters like AFR, fuel mixture and spark advance. And then compare to previous settings to see if the performance against the standard is the same, higher or lower. It also can then compare results from 1 dyno to another assuming they are calibrated consistently. And by using SAE, the theory is that the "math" will standardize key variables in a dyno run like humidity, barometric temp and ambient temp and therefore make those SAE results comparable between different runs on different days and even between 2 calibrated dynos.

You can certainly challenge whether a particular dyno is set to DJ's calibration standards and you can even challenge whether the formulas behind SAE can reasonably standardize measurement from one dyno run to another regardless of external variables, but suggesting that dyno results are meaningless is clearly a statement from someone that doesn't understand the purpose of building and then tuning a bike for maximizing performance. (BTW aren't you the guy that doesn't even own a bike? My apologies if you own a bike but if you don't, then I "really" understand why you are confused!)

In the end Lever's bike appears to be maximizing the performance of the $ he spent to build his engine. And that conclusion can be reached by:
- the measurements achieved on the dyno while tuning his bike
- the comparison of his measurements to all other bikes that have been run on a calibrated dyno
- the measurements as compared to bike's with a similar build such as mine so long as the dyno was calibrated and we're comparing SAE metrics
- and finally and most importantly the smile on Lever's face when he accelerates from a light and kicks a** when running against 99% of all other Harleys on the road
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 07:04:55 AM by Heatwave »
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #116 on: April 25, 2012, 07:01:05 AM »

Maybe it's not true, I don't know, I wasn't there.

"One of the biggest headaches of Dynojet's go-it-alone chassis-dyno project was figuring out how to assign meaningful power numbers in the face of unknown inertia from the moving parts of the hundreds or thousands of engine, drivetrain, and tire combinations.  Wrestling to fully understand inertia and powertrain losses, Dobeck and his team quickly realized that the standard physics formula of weight, time, and distance for converting acceleration into horsepower simply didn't work-the derived number was always lower than accepted numbers.  They poured on resources and burned up time and money investigating it, but no matter what they did, the math never added up.

Dynojet's final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200cc Yamaha VMax.  The VMax had 145 advertised factory horsepower, which was far above the raw 90hp number spit out by the formula.  Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120.  Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so that the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax.  And that was that: For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number.  Dobeck's engineering staff was dismayed by the decision, but the Dynojet 100 exclusively measured surplus power available to accelerate the vehicle's mass-no more, no less-and that was true even if the modification was a low-inertia flywheel or lightweight wheels.  As long as the inertial dyno's numbers were repeatable, the critical question (did a particular modification make the engine accelerate faster or slower?) would be answered correctly."

from http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/113_0603_dynojet_chassis_dyno/viewall.html

So what's changed?

If you used a DC or variable-frequency AC motor and could directly measure the power, I would pay attention to the numbers.  At any rate, nothing you said in apparently attempting to show me in error was successful because you didn't address what I'd said.  You set up straw men then knocked them down.

I doubt you're any more anal about wanting things right than I am, but you know what?  I know for a fact my bike ain't set up to deliver the most power it can at WOT.  I don't care.  I have it set up instead to be spot-on in all the places I actually use it.

I don't recall seeing any part-throttle graphs posted, nor anybody else mentioning them, so I wonder why it is you brought them up...

And exactly how did you conclude that "I have it set up instead to be spot-on in all the places I actually use it."?
Logged

PASN YU

  • Ride Hard
  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163

    • CVO1: 2012 FLHXSE3 Ruby Red/Typhoon Maroon
    • CVO2: 2019 FLTRXSE Mako Shark
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2012, 08:11:38 AM »

Why don't all of you bench racers create a thread of your own to do your arguing?? That way you don't have to hijack everyone else's when they post a dyno sheet. It could be called, "The Bench Racers Dyno Arguments".   :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
Trust, but verify.

glens

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 352
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2012, 08:52:12 AM »

I'm certainly no bench racer, though I guess I'm guilty of arguing with one...

I think you've made MY point.

A bit less than you've made mine!

Quote
Maxmized engine performance is not only about WOT. If a tuner is only optimizing a bike at WOT then he's ripping you off. I always get a cruise dyno graph at 3000 rpms and have posted them before. Go look them up if you're interested. It will tell you if you're afr is set to balance both performance and fuel economy and generally should be leaner in both cylinders than the afr at WOT.

Thanks, but no thanks.  Not interested.  Regarding the first sentence, however, we're in complete agreement.  Or didn't you read what I wrote yesterday?

Quote
Secondly, in the quote above there's only one sentence that matters "As long as the inertial dyno's numbers were repeatable, the critical question (did a particular modification make the engine accelerate faster or slower?) would be answered correctly."

And that is the point of DJ's dyno products. ... It is not trying to compare the "actual" hp to any other device other than one that can rotate [n.b. "accelerate"] it's drum. So its measurement of hp and tq is NOT comparable to a rocket engine or a rototiller but only to other motorcycles or devices that can properly rotate it's dyno drum. Get it?

It's not measuring torque and horsepower, it's inferring them.  Actually, inferring the torque and deriving the hp from that, well, maybe the other way around, I forget.  But other than that, yes, I get it.  I'd thought you'd be able to discern that from what I'd said yesterday.

Quote
So a dyno allows the user to make adjustments to efi engine parameters like AFR, fuel mixture and spark advance. And then compare to previous settings to see if the performance against the standard is the same, higher or lower.  It also can then compare results from 1 dyno to another assuming they are calibrated [n.b. and operated] consistently. And by using SAE, the theory is that the "math" will standardize key variables in a dyno run like humidity, barometric temp and ambient temp and therefore make those SAE results comparable between different runs on different days and even between 2 calibrated dynos.

Basically quoting me yesterday to me today?  Fleshed out a little, obviously, but other than that it's what I plainly said.

Quote
You can certainly challenge whether a particular dyno is set to DJ's calibration standards and you can even challenge whether the formulas behind SAE can reasonably standardize measurement from one dyno run to another regardless of external variables, but suggesting that dyno results are meaningless is clearly a statement from someone that doesn't understand the purpose of building and then tuning a bike for maximizing performance. (BTW aren't you the guy that doesn't even own a bike? My apologies if you own a bike but if you don't, then I "really" understand why you are confused!)

I underlined your misunderstanding of what I'd said.  I didn't say the results are meaningless.  Quite the opposite.  What I'd said was the numbers aren't accurate.  They're relative on any given dyno (when everything's done correctly and consistently) but they're not real.  It's like the "AFR" trace values.  Unless the bike is being run on some sort of laboratory test-grade fuel, you're not likely to find gasoline that burns at an AFR of 14:6:1, though that's the figure hard-coded into the AFR probes to indicate the fuel has been burned at stoichiometric mixture.  You can set up to run stoich with pure ethanol at 9:1 and the probe will indicate this condition as 14.6:1.  Sure, you can (usually) rely on the numbers being relative when you make adjustments to the engine, but to say you've set it up to run, say, 13.8:1 AFR is not correct.  If you'd said instead "0.9452 lambda" you'd be saying something worth saying.

Aren't I the guy who doesn't even own a bike?  See?  You're thinking I'm someone else, as I suggested yesterday.

Quote
In the end Lever's bike appears to be maximizing the performance of the $ he spent to build his engine. And that conclusion can be reached by:
- the measurements achieved on the dyno while tuning his bike
- the comparison of his measurements to all other bikes that have been run on a calibrated dyno
- the measurements as compared to bike's with a similar build such as mine so long as the dyno was calibrated and we're comparing SAE metrics
- and finally and most importantly the smile on Lever's face when he accelerates from a light and kicks a** when running against 99% of all other Harleys on the road

I'll grant you items 1, and possibly 4, with caveats.  But for items 2 and 3, I cannot agree.  They're too vague.  You left out way too many variables such as what gear the bike was in, tire pressure, was the operator sitting on or standing next to the bike, etc.  If the same operator runs two bikes in exactly the same manner on the same machine, then you can use the dyno to accurately compare them.  But the true value in a dyno, as we've both said now, is to compare changes to the same bike.

And exactly how did you conclude that "I have it set up instead to be spot-on in all the places I actually use it."?

Do you understand how closed-loop EFI works and how to adjust the ECM so that it's making little to no change to its calculations as a result of the feedback it's gathering?  If so, then you should be able to understand how I did it.

Thank you for your time and consideration.  I apologize to everyone else for the diversion.

Congrats Lever!
Logged

PASN YU

  • Ride Hard
  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163

    • CVO1: 2012 FLHXSE3 Ruby Red/Typhoon Maroon
    • CVO2: 2019 FLTRXSE Mako Shark
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #119 on: April 25, 2012, 08:55:30 AM »

If you're no bench racer, take it to the track and prove your arguments there. If any of you are arguing about a dyno sheet and it's characteristics, you are a bench racer. Quit hijacking other poeple's threads.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:59:15 AM by PASN YU »
Logged
Trust, but verify.

naitram

  • SMF Administrator
  • 10K CVO Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12662
    • MA


    • CVO1: FLTRXSE2 "Marvin"
Re: Lever's upgrade
« Reply #120 on: April 25, 2012, 09:09:05 AM »

seems some didnt get my point.
Logged
:cool26: naitram...


"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
"Work is the curse of the drinking class."
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 9 [All]
 

Page created in 0.506 seconds with 24 queries.