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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Chrome O on January 05, 2009, 02:07:28 PM

Title: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Chrome O on January 05, 2009, 02:07:28 PM
2000 miles and I think I am ready to do a few mods to the 09 SEUC and have been searching for the best pipe, software, breather and cams to do this with.

Just found this website for Woods Performance and would really like for my bike to produce these numbers.
http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc110efitw9bg

Does anyone have any FIRST HAND experience with this group? 

If you have your own setup that you would recommend I would really appreciate you posting your mods and Dyno sheets.

Thanks
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Admiral on January 05, 2009, 03:09:41 PM
2000 miles and I think I am ready to do a few mods to the 09 SEUC and have been searching for the best pipe, software, breather and cams to do this with.

Just found this website for Woods Performance and would really like for my bike to produce these numbers.
http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc110efitw9bg

Does anyone have any FIRST HAND experience with this group? 

If you have your own setup that you would recommend I would really appreciate you posting your mods and Dyno sheets.

Thanks

:cowboy: Welcome from Texas :cowboy:
                                                    :welcome_005:  :cherry:

Go to  New Member Section  (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=30.0) tell us about your self and post some pictures of your bike

BTW, tried your link and it would not go there,.  I was able to get to http://www.woodcarbs.com however.

Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: hd-dude on January 05, 2009, 03:10:04 PM
Your mods will depend on what your are willing to do with the engine.

Are you looking for bolt-in(no head work) Cams?
What numbers are you looking to get too??

I have been selling and installing Wood cams for quite some time and can tell you that there stuff works well. The numbers you are looking to get out of the engine, the dollars you are willing to spend, and the head work will determine what is feasible.

PS, your link above did not work.

Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Chrome O on January 05, 2009, 04:15:53 PM
I have upgraded the 88 CI on my 99 RK, then I put in a 95 CI in and when that was not enough, I went to a Zippers 107 CI and a lower compensator sprocket, Baker 6 speed with customized gears for that setup, by then I was having reliability issues so I eventually sold it. 

This is my second CVO and it does not seem to be has strong as the 103 ci on my 05 SEEG.  But if I can get by with a little head work, cams, pipes, software, or replace the ecm and a breather.... thats what I want to do.

I really like the way that engine made its torque (flat and early) and horsepower grows all the way to 5500 rpms.

I don't have a dollar figure in mind but will consider listening with an open mind, if you will suggest a setup.

I am not "the mad man, red light racer" any more but on an empty back road I like to hit it,with my riding buddies, and the rest of the time we are two up and of course loaded down. 

Right now its just seems chocked down so bad, and I want to open it up asap but I would like to see what's out there and what's working.  I do not want heavy top end noise either.

I hear the Wood components are good. Where is your shop?

Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: grc on January 05, 2009, 04:32:47 PM

This is the dyno chart Chrome O is referencing from Woods.

Jerry
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: mr_magoo on January 05, 2009, 04:40:55 PM
Those are better numbers than I got with freedom cams, but no head work.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Hoist! on January 05, 2009, 05:49:02 PM
Not a lot of choices with these newer engines. First off, HD are the only cases you can use to build a motor. And you can't buy a motor either, from anyone else but Jim's, who's in bed with HD anyway. They make a 120 and a 131 for the '07 & up. So you're left with using that, or a crappy bottom end to do a hipo top end on! Ooops, sorry, thanks for playing folks, you just scissorred your crank with all that power! So you have to build an engine for that kinda power if ya expect it to last. With Timkens and welded or forged cranks. And if you do that, you better know your chit on the way these 110's flow too, or find someone that does!!! But this ain't the old days of HD anymore! You're at their mercy much more than ya might know these days. Do your homework and find a GOOD builder that knows these things. Otherwise you'll go down the road like some of us throwing good money after bad at it! ;)

Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: SBB on January 05, 2009, 06:49:59 PM
Do your homework and find a GOOD builder that knows these things. Otherwise you'll go down the road like some of us throwing good money after bad at it! ;)

Hoist! 8)


Reminds me of December 2006 when I was at Tmans shop going over my Jims 120.
He had a 110 on the bench. I asked what he was doing to it. He said, "Making it run and making it last"
I asked, what kind of numbers? He said, "Depending on headwork, T/B and cams, approx 120 to 135".
I have told many of his work and combinations.
I have never heard of an verified issue with any of his combinations.
Wonder if anyone has?
Even Jim (hd-dude) uses his stuff!

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:


www.Tmanperformance.com
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Godeater on January 05, 2009, 09:50:27 PM
This with just set of gear drives, exact cam escapes me atm, and R&R stage 4 head work.  Power Commander, AC, and pipes of course too.  How the lower end will hold up is yet to be seen.  But there is power there if you go looking for it.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Hoist! on January 05, 2009, 10:12:05 PM
This with just set of gear drives, exact cam escapes me atm, and R&R stage 4 head work.  Power Commander, AC, and pipes of course too.  How the lower end will hold up is yet to be seen.  But there is power there if you go looking for it.

Yep, was running over 126 Ft lbs and over 120HP. But wouldn't dare think about it on stock bottom end! 4-3/8" S&S leg and Timken in my motor! Now I just gotta get the top to stay together!!! ::) ;D ;D ;D ;) :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:

Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: hd-dude on January 06, 2009, 12:08:56 AM
I have upgraded the 88 CI on my 99 RK, then I put in a 95 CI in and when that was not enough, I went to a Zippers 107 CI and a lower compensator sprocket, Baker 6 speed with customized gears for that setup, by then I was having reliability issues so I eventually sold it. 

This is my second CVO and it does not seem to be has strong as the 103 ci on my 05 SEEG.  But if I can get by with a little head work, cams, pipes, software, or replace the ecm and a breather.... thats what I want to do.

I really like the way that engine made its torque (flat and early) and horsepower grows all the way to 5500 rpms.

I don't have a dollar figure in mind but will consider listening with an open mind, if you will suggest a setup.

I am not "the mad man, red light racer" any more but on an empty back road I like to hit it,with my riding buddies, and the rest of the time we are two up and of course loaded down. 

Right now its just seems chocked down so bad, and I want to open it up asap but I would like to see what's out there and what's working.  I do not want heavy top end noise either.

I hear the Wood components are good. Where is your shop?



The 110 falls off pretty quick due to the short duration cams. Without any head work I would recommend a D&D Fatcat, Wood TW7H cams, Ness Big Sucker ( or high fow AC kit of your choice) and a tuner. This will give you the best bang for the buck and cool down the engine as well. It is also a pretty safe build power wise for the bottom end.

If you want to go into the heads and bottom end then the posibilities become almost endless. The build need to be looked at as a whole complete package.

My shop is in Hayward, Ca
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Chrome O on January 06, 2009, 10:08:52 AM
HD-Dude

Thanks for the advice...

Its the way I am going to go.... I was already leaning towards the D&D, cause thats what I had on my RK. (The 107 Zippers never hit the big numbers until we changed the carb and added the Fat Cats.)

Have you all installed, any with this set up, and if so, have you Dynoed any? Would really feel more comfortable to see actual numbers, first.  I have read a ton on tuners,,,, what advice, on this subject if any, do you have?  Or point me to a post if you know of one.

I have decided to "only" do these changes for now due to warranty and it will give me something to look forward to later.

My biggest and really only frustration with this bike,,,is the slow revs and the throttle response.  I have to do this now!! I have actually almost made a couple of mistakes pulling out in front of traffic, hitting the gas and it just bogs down for a second, and I have to clutch it and back of the throttle and re-gas it in order for the motor to rev.  Probably more my riding style and what I am use to with my past bikes then this bike.  I have corrected this by reving the motor a lot more and then slipping the clutch a lot more and for a lot longer than I am used to.

I have to admit I expected a lot more low end torque and much better throtle responce from a 110!





Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: jfh on January 06, 2009, 07:02:03 PM
HD-Dude

My biggest and really only frustration with this bike,,,is the slow revs and the throttle response.  I have to do this now!! I have actually almost made a couple of mistakes pulling out in front of traffic, hitting the gas and it just bogs down for a second, and I have to clutch it and back of the throttle and re-gas it in order for the motor to rev.  Probably more my riding style and what I am use to with my past bikes then this bike.  I have corrected this by reving the motor a lot more and then slipping the clutch a lot more and for a lot longer than I am used to.

I have to admit I expected a lot more low end torque and much better throtle responce from a 110!


Chrome O,

 Sounds like you have an issue with your bike.  Prior to your post, I had not heard anyone complain about slow revs or no bottom end on the '09 110s. My low end torque is actually quite impressive (and I'm accustomed to riding a 120"). The 255 cams that are responsible for that good torque are also largely responsible for the flatline performance above 4k, but that's another chapter.

You should have yours looked at by a competent mechanic to resolve the performance problem before implementing any upgrades.

Good luck.

I would look to resolve this problem prior to implementing any modifications from the stock configuration.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: 1abastarsmda on January 06, 2009, 09:31:29 PM
Question from the above info.  I have an 09 SE Ultra.  I have the Fullsac 2.25", Zipper Maxflo air cleaner, and Super SERT.  If I put in the Wood cam TW7H, would I have to change exhaust?
                                                      would I need to go to a larger throttle body?
                                                      would I get a noticeable gain?
                                                      would I need to do anything else?
I'd be willing to go to the D&D Fatcat, but I don't see a listing for one for the 09's.

I spoke to a service manager at a Harley dealer last week and he told me that I was wasting my money by just putting a different cam in.  He said that I wouldn't notice a difference.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: hd-dude on January 07, 2009, 12:17:53 AM
Question from the above info.  I have an 09 SE Ultra.  I have the Fullsac 2.25", Zipper Maxflo air cleaner, and Super SERT.  If I put in the Wood cam TW7H, would I have to change exhaust?  Need to? No. Will it perfrom better, Yes
                                                      would I need to go to a larger throttle body?Need to? No. Will it perfrom better, Yes especially on top
                                                      would I get a noticeable gain? Yes
                                                      would I need to do anything else? Yes, A dyno tune (preferable not from the dealer that told you the cam won't make a difference
I'd be willing to go to the D&D Fatcat, but I don't see a listing for one for the 09's. They do not list one for an 09, I have not installed one on an 09 yet myself but I know of two people that have
I spoke to a service manager at a Harley dealer last week and he told me that I was wasting my money by just putting a different cam in.  He said that I wouldn't notice a difference.I would go to another shop that knows about performance

Here is a dyno sheet from Wood's website: As you can see in the comparision of the stock SE 255 and Wood TW7H cam you would not notice any difference :P

(http://woodcarbs.com/images/tc110efitw7h.jpg)


Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: hd-dude on January 07, 2009, 12:34:42 AM
HD-Dude

Thanks for the advice...

Its the way I am going to go.... I was already leaning towards the D&D, cause thats what I had on my RK. (The 107 Zippers never hit the big numbers until we changed the carb and added the Fat Cats.)

Have you all installed, any with this set up, and if so, have you Dynoed any? Would really feel more comfortable to see actual numbers, first.  I have read a ton on tuners,,,, what advice, on this subject if any, do you have?  Or point me to a post if you know of one.

I have decided to "only" do these changes for now due to warranty and it will give me something to look forward to later.

My biggest and really only frustration with this bike,,,is the slow revs and the throttle response.  I have to do this now!! I have actually almost made a couple of mistakes pulling out in front of traffic, hitting the gas and it just bogs down for a second, and I have to clutch it and back of the throttle and re-gas it in order for the motor to rev.  Probably more my riding style and what I am use to with my past bikes then this bike.  I have corrected this by reving the motor a lot more and then slipping the clutch a lot more and for a lot longer than I am used to.

I have to admit I expected a lot more low end torque and much better throtle responce from a 110!


I have not done personally this combo on an 09 but I know that it will work well. I do not have a dyno (yet) so I am no expert on tuners but I have been involved with many many tunes. (I typically take bikes into an another local shop near me to do the tunes.)  I would recommend talking with a good tuner in your area and find out what they use and are proficient with, the Mastertune is on the top of my list.

The throttle lag that you are experiencing may me due to the TBW, As HDFR120 stated the 110's do have decent torque down low. They just fall on their face really early.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Twolanerider on January 07, 2009, 12:36:59 AM

 (yet)



This something you're working toward Jim?
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: hd-dude on January 07, 2009, 12:42:23 AM

This something you're working toward Jim?

Have been for a while, it only takes money and shop space (two things I do not have enough of, yet ;D)
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Twolanerider on January 07, 2009, 12:51:57 AM
Have been for a while, it only takes money and shop space (two things I do not have enough of, yet ;D)

The shop space was the first thought that came to mind Jim.  I remember the pictures of your place.  The only open space there was outside.  And even that was crowded :huepfenlol2: !
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: jfh on January 07, 2009, 05:31:39 PM
The throttle lag that you are experiencing may me due to the TBW, As HDFR120 stated the 110's do have decent torque down low. They just fall on their face really early.

My TBW has no lag at all.

If it is is the TBW, it could be an improper Throttle Progressivity setting in the ECM.

From the SSERT Manual:

Throttle Progressivity

Throttle progressivity is a variable that allows the individual to adjust how closely the throttle plate follows the twist grip. You will be able to program progressive throttle opening with this feature.

The table column headings represent the twist grip position in percent. The table row headings represent engine RPM. The values in the table are the "Progressivity" values in percent.

If you want the throttle plate to exactly follow the twist grip, you would make the values under a particular column heading the same percentage as the column heading itself. For example, under a column heading of "40% Twist Grip Position", the table values would be changed to 40 in each of the cells in that column.

If the tuner wants the throttle plate to "lag" the twist grip to help eliminate an engine "bog", then the values in a twist grip column would start at a low value and progressively increase to the same value that is that column's header.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: RJW on January 07, 2009, 11:01:54 PM
At 11700 miles I had the 0905 campaign done. At the same time I sent the new heads out to Heldreth Performance and had them ported and polished. Did not have them decked. Put gear drive TW7HG woods cams in. Heavy duty springs. I was looking to get a cooler running motor and a little more Torque. 1500 miles so far I like it. Seems to run real nice. It's been real wet and cold in Seattle.
121.49 Torque and 107.77 Horses. I think with a new TB could get more but its fine for now.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: RJW on January 07, 2009, 11:16:02 PM
 :oops:I forgot to mention. I have Rinehart true duals, AC, HD race tuner.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: Chrome O on January 08, 2009, 07:20:17 AM
rj walkup

Those are good numbers in my book!  Would be glad to have that kind of tq and hp.  You did not mention what you are riding and its not in your profile.

Bring us you to speed on what bike is producing that, would you please?

Also have heard a couple of members complain that the Wood cam noise is fairly loud.  What is your experience?

Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: RJW on January 08, 2009, 12:59:23 PM
Chrome O

My bike is a CUSE2. The cams are not loud at all!!! Vary nice sound at idle and smooth. I'm using Mobil One V Twin 20/50 oil, Spectro 6speed 75/140 in the Trans. Have not done any thing with the primary.  No gear noise in the motor or trans. So for so good.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: skyhook on January 10, 2009, 07:23:22 AM
i went with r&r stage 4 heads, cometic .030 head gaskets, 10.5 comp, 257 cams, supermeg, hpi 55mm t/body, s.e. injectors, stock pistons, cyls, clutch, bottom end...11k miles and no problems, best run 120/120 uncorrected on a dj250...but this is a dyna, most bagger guys wouldn't like the low torque below 3000

a good bang for the buck would be blueprinted heads with the bigger intake valve/bowl work/muti-angle valve job (see thread by gremlush), thin head gasket, and a mild or midrange cam with compression set to 9.2 corrected...my opinion you're wasting money using a long cam with the stock injection system



Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: wouldkarver on January 13, 2009, 12:01:27 AM
Here is what what I have in an 08 SERK, maybe this will help. would also like comments from others as well....thanks!
I also have the SE Heavy Breather on it too.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: 1abastarsmda on January 13, 2009, 12:18:39 AM
Here is what what I have in an 08 SERK, maybe this will help. would also like comments from others as well....thanks!
I also have the SE Heavy Breather on it too.

Did you change the throttle body also?
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: gremlush on January 13, 2009, 07:10:04 PM
Do you have that run in SAE ? 
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: wouldkarver on January 13, 2009, 07:51:13 PM
Stock throttle body and injectors...

Not sure what you mean by "Do you have that run in SAE ?"
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: gremlush on January 13, 2009, 08:13:07 PM
SAE is the 'standard ' dyno ,yours is DIN which will read higher.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: wouldkarver on January 13, 2009, 08:19:28 PM
No....this is all I have from the dyno
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: gremlush on January 13, 2009, 08:30:05 PM
Thats a goog looking dyno run ,don't get me wrong. Its 2-3 higher than it would be in SAE.  Good cams. I am a dealer for Woods cams too and have know Bob since before he did cams. He started with carbs. If you don't believe me ,look at the 'old' Daytona dyno shootouts. He won with 3SUNS cams.  I been doing this stuff  WAYYY too long. Gunsmoke is on !
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: 1abastarsmda on January 13, 2009, 08:41:23 PM
Gremlush, what do you think he would gain with the bigger throttle body along with his current setup?
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: gremlush on January 14, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
If your talking about the 08 SERK , not much in the RPM you ride ! 2500-3500 rpm. as it already has a 50mm. Yes, you will gain 4-6 more at 3500 and above ,BUT, will you feel it ?  Just remember one thing.  HP sells parts. TQ wins races. PERIOD ! Dewey  ps. it take 3+ lbs. tq. for you to feel in the seat of your pants , and if you really want to go fast ,lose weight !!! it take 10 tq. more for evey 100 lbs. of weight. I am sure someone will hit me on the 3+ tq. thing ,I know ,I know , just like that ex. pipes that was susposed to give me 20 hp.  I lost 12 , but it was loud and I thought I was going fast. LOL
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: ematicic on October 07, 2013, 07:12:55 PM
Any new technology out there that makes this info out of date. I was thinking of "waking up" my CVO BO. It was suggested to go with 585 Cams and 10.5-1 compression. I already have the 2-1 bassani road rage short being installed now. I also have SERT.

Also curious about Lifters, injectors and any recommended change to the clutch.
Title: Re: 110 C.I MAKES 125 HP AND 125 Torque
Post by: HD Street Performance on October 08, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Well HP and TQ are higher with less now. Your injectors are OK as-is. TB could use an upgrade. The SE 259 Stg kit with the 10.5 SE pistons can be tweaked to get over 123 SQ and with a 9B or 662-1 the 110" pushes the 130 mark.