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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Fullsac Performance on April 09, 2011, 11:55:57 AM

Title: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 09, 2011, 11:55:57 AM
Here is a 120R dyno chart sent to me from Al at Hot Rod Harley Davidsons, located in the great state of Michigan.
Al is a top notch service and dyno tech who I have worked with for a few years.

The 120R crate engine was installed in a customers 09 Street Glide with a Fullsac "B" X Pipe, Rinehart mufflers and HD Heavy Breather AC.
Typicall smooth X Pipe TQ curve with almost 1.1 HP per cube! Not bad for something that came from an HD catalog.
I'd really like to see one of these 120Rs with a little less compression, smaller cam profile, and the TQ line clearing 125 at 2500.
That would be a Touring motor.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance


Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: timtoolman on April 10, 2011, 10:38:19 PM
I want of them tooooooooo
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Dan_Lockwood on April 11, 2011, 03:01:36 PM
Here is a 120R dyno chart sent to me from Al at Hot Rod Harley Davidsons, located in the great state of Michigan.
Al is a top notch service and dyno tech who I have worked with for a few years.

The 120R crate engine was installed in a customers 09 Street Glide with a Fullsac "B" X Pipe, Rinehart mufflers and HD Heavy Breather AC.
Typicall smooth X Pipe TQ curve with almost 1.1 HP per cube! Not bad for something that came from an HD catalog.
I'd really like to see one of these 120Rs with a little less compression, smaller cam profile, and the TQ line clearing 125 at 2500.
That would be a Touring motor.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance

 

Steve, that shows as run file .001.  Do you think he just put it up on the dyno and did one pull and that's what he got?

Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: mrmagloo on April 11, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Any thoughts on that low 2K torque dip?  I thought the other dyno sheet on 120R that was posted recently showed 100 ft/lbs torque at 2,000 on up with a nice straight curve. Just wondering what might be different? Thanks!
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 11, 2011, 03:57:42 PM
 

Steve, that shows as run file .001.  Do you think he just put it up on the dyno and did one pull and that's what he got?


It does seem odd than it shows run 001. I'm sure this was the best run after quite a few dyno pulls.
Maybe he didn't want anyone to know how many pulls it took?

SG
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Dr.D on April 11, 2011, 04:03:45 PM
Any thoughts on that low 2K torque dip?  I thought the other dyno sheet on 120R that was posted recently showed 100 ft/lbs torque at 2,000 on up with a nice straight curve. Just wondering what might be different? Thanks!

I did not like the bottom of the tq curve either. Are the pipes/mufflers giving enough back pressure? What kind of compression does the motor have? Why smaller cam profile? Early intake would help right?
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 11, 2011, 04:09:25 PM
Any thoughts on that low 2K torque dip?  I thought the other dyno sheet on 120R that was posted recently showed 100 ft/lbs torque at 2,000 on up with a nice straight curve. Just wondering what might be different? Thanks!
A slight take off dip is very common as the accelerator pump floods the motor for a second. I usually start my pulls at 1700 with a roll on
to try to get the fuel cleared out by 2000 rpm. With the huge cams in the 120R I'm surprised it as smooth as it is. Again, I would really like to see this
combo with a smaller cam to bring on the early TQ that is available with 120 CI motor. I've seen dynos from a 124" motor with my B X Pipe
that showed 143 peak TQ, 120 TQ at 2500 with 125 peak HP. That's a nice TQ curve for a Touring motor!

Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 11, 2011, 04:21:03 PM
I did not like the bottom of the tq curve either. Are the pipes/mufflers giving enough back pressure? What kind of compression does the motor have? Why smaller cam profile? Early intake would help right?
Rinehart mufflers? Cant say what size core it had. It needs 2.25 minimum. In this case, small cores will hurt the TQ.
The HD book says 10.5 comp with SE 266E cams. Those are monsters with a 58 deg closing. Really need about 11.5 and race gas to
even act alive on the bottom. For a Touring motor, all wrong. JMHO.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Dr.D on April 12, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
Rinehart mufflers? Cant say what size core it had. It needs 2.25 minimum. In this case, small cores will hurt the TQ.
The HD book says 10.5 comp with SE 266E cams. Those are monsters with a 58 deg closing. Really need about 11.5 and race gas to
even act alive on the bottom. For a Touring motor, all wrong. JMHO.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance

Thanks for the response. I have seen the spec on those 266e and they are bit big and biased to the high rpm hp and not right on the big tourer. I would think the 10.5 comp is as much as you would want on a street bike running the average high test unleaded. I need to look at the header pipes and ask if there is a web site.?
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: ultraswede on April 12, 2011, 01:51:35 PM
This bike is EFI, so there is no acc-pump.
The acc enrichment is very easy to tune in the EFI,
so personally I don't believe that is the reason for the dip.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 12, 2011, 04:23:12 PM
Thanks for the response. I have seen the spec on those 266e and they are bit big and biased to the high rpm hp and not right on the big tourer. I would think the 10.5 comp is as much as you would want on a street bike running the average high test unleaded. I need to look at the header pipes and ask if there is a web site.?

The Fullsac X Pipe can be seen at www.fullsac.com.

SG
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on April 12, 2011, 04:31:41 PM
This bike is EFI, so there is no acc-pump.
The acc enrichment is very easy to tune in the EFI,
so personally I don't believe that is the reason for the dip.
Yes, it is EFI. It does have an accelerator pump or "accel enrichment" if you prefer.
Sorry to disagree, they are a pain in the ass if not impossible to make perfect everywhere at all throttle roll ons, especially if you have
big cams as noted in this engine. Again, JMHO.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on April 13, 2011, 07:24:37 AM
A slight take off dip is very common as the accelerator pump floods the motor for a second. I usually start my pulls at 1700 with a roll on
to try to get the fuel cleared out by 2000 rpm. With the huge cams in the 120R I'm surprised it as smooth as it is. Again, I would really like to see this
combo with a smaller cam to bring on the early TQ that is available with 120 CI motor. I've seen dynos from a 124" motor with my B X Pipe
that showed 143 peak TQ, 120 TQ at 2500 with 125 peak HP. That's a nice TQ curve for a Touring motor!

Steve George
Fullsac Performance

I agree with Steve.
I doubt if the pipe is really responsible for anything, coming off the bottom.
Those 120's need a tune-up in the cam dept., or more compression to support that late-blooming 266.
Scott
Title: Re: Re: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: cvosjoe on November 04, 2011, 10:08:03 AM
Here is a 120R dyno chart sent to me from Al at Hot Rod Harley Davidsons, located in the great state of Michigan.
Al is a top notch service and dyno tech who I have worked with for a few years.

The 120R crate engine was installed in a customers 09 Street Glide with a Fullsac "B" X Pipe, Rinehart mufflers and HD Heavy Breather AC.
Typicall smooth X Pipe TQ curve with almost 1.1 HP per cube! Not bad for something that came from an HD catalog.
I'd really like to see one of these 120Rs with a little less compression, smaller cam profile, and the TQ line clearing 125 at 2500.
That would be a Touring motor.

Steve George
Fullsac Performance

Steve,
Do you know if the stock 50mm TB was used or did they go with a larger one?
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: willyB on November 04, 2011, 11:43:12 AM
My wife and I have unfortunately became unemployed earlier this year. You know, economy etc...

Since I have nothing but time on my hands now I would be more than willing to "test out" a new 120R on my 2011 CVO Street Glide and provide the results back to this forum on a daily basis. If anyone wants to send me a new 120R I will install it and begin the results feedback. If you can't send it I will be more than willing to come and pick it up.

 ;D
Title: Re: Re: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: cvosjoe on November 04, 2011, 12:28:55 PM
:2vrolijk_21: I agree. It is not the AE table that causes a rich dip below 2500 rpm. Here is another 09 FLHX with a 120r right out of the crate.

What exhaust and TB are you using on this?
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: lonewolf55 on November 04, 2011, 02:14:04 PM
SE 58, Supertrapp 2:1. 35 disc's closed cap. He wanted quiet.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: HD Street Performance on November 04, 2011, 03:04:24 PM
120Rs with a little less compression, smaller cam profile,

It has 10.3:1 actual the 54 you like would accomplish the goal. Would probably drop 12hp and gain peak torque of 5 or so and shift it to the right.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Doc 1 on November 04, 2011, 03:45:11 PM
If the dip was made by the flooding of the accel table your AFR line would show a rich condition in the same area. The overlap from the cam coupled with low compression and piston speed slower than the air intake speed will make this dip at that low rpm. If it were pipes the dip would be at 2500 rpm area. This is over a 650 lift cam.....they don't work at 2000 rpm.
Doc
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: North Star on November 04, 2011, 06:16:01 PM
Sounds like even the latest greatest 120 is not right out of the crate- it needs to be modded too.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: sadunbar on November 04, 2011, 06:47:41 PM
Sounds like even the latest greatest 120 is not right out of the crate- it needs to be modded too.

The 120r is fantastic right out of the crate...

Any motor can be improved upon...  And any motor can be altered to suit particular riding styles...   
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Fullsac Performance on November 05, 2011, 01:43:12 AM
If the dip was made by the flooding of the accel table your AFR line would show a rich condition in the same area. The overlap from the cam coupled with low compression and piston speed slower than the air intake speed will make this dip at that low rpm. If it were pipes the dip would be at 2500 rpm area. This is over a 650 lift cam.....they don't work at 2000 rpm.
Doc

 :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Phaq2 on November 05, 2011, 07:57:55 AM
I read alot of posts recommending lower profile cams can anybody make any suggestions? What would have been a better choice for a bagger?  Sorry for the hijack...Thanks
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: HD Street Performance on November 05, 2011, 09:20:31 AM
No change for a bagger. It is a 120 well designed and matched to a heavy bike but still right at home in a lighter chassis. If someone was looking for changes to accelerate better (really??) changing the gearing would help but really this 120 makes good torque surprisingly down low and over a wide range. I stated change to the 54 but if it were mine I would not do that, I would raise the compression a tad though, fix the geometry and add corrected geometry rockers then ride on
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: cvobiker on November 05, 2011, 01:53:54 PM
My wife and I have unfortunately became unemployed earlier this year. You know, economy etc...

Since I have nothing but time on my hands now I would be more than willing to "test out" a new 120R on my 2011 CVO Street Glide and provide the results back to this forum on a daily basis. If anyone wants to send me a new 120R I will install it and begin the results feedback. If you can't send it I will be more than willing to come and pick it up.

 ;D

Hey Willy,,, you can pick one up at your nearest HD Dealer.... Hurry Up!! i want to start seeing your results...   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Phaq2 on November 05, 2011, 01:58:43 PM
No change for a bagger. It is a 120 well designed and matched to a heavy bike but still right at home in a lighter chassis. If someone was looking for changes to accelerate better (really??) changing the gearing would help but really this 120 makes good torque surprisingly down low and over a wide range. I stated change to the 54 but if it were mine I would not do that, I would raise the compression a tad though, fix the geometry and add corrected geometry rockers then ride on

Thanks Dewey, My dealer is running a 20% off special so I got a quote yesterday...$4830.17 including local sales tax....... I just may have to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: willyB on November 06, 2011, 08:12:03 AM
Hey Willy,,, you can pick one up at your nearest HD Dealer.... Hurry Up!! i want to start seeing your results...   :2vrolijk_21:
Now all I have to do is raise $4,800+ and I'll be ready to start sending the results.

Hmmmm, anyone know where I can find a job to raise the funds?
 ;D

Man, I would love to have this motor. If anything just to give my brother a little grief.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: smiley1049 on November 06, 2011, 08:15:59 AM
But they only come in black!
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: eleft36 on November 06, 2011, 05:34:50 PM
My wife and I have unfortunately became unemployed earlier this year. You know, economy etc...

Since I have nothing but time on my hands now I would be more than willing to "test out" a new 120R on my 2011 CVO Street Glide and provide the results back to this forum on a daily basis. If anyone wants to send me a new 120R I will install it and begin the results feedback. If you can't send it I will be more than willing to come and pick it up.

 ;D

Willy,
I see grants for nothing to do with "the common good" for millions of $$$, give it a try.... call your senator. :jack:
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Aceboympk on November 06, 2011, 08:55:30 PM
Thanks Dewey, My dealer is running a 20% off special so I got a quote yesterday...$4830.17 including local sales tax....... I just may have to pull the trigger.

$4800 for a 120R engine?  Well, my bike has 37k miles on her, so I know what I'll be replacing that engine with.  ;-)

Maybe Willy can come over to my house and help me with the install.  Free food and drinks!  Hell, I'll let you take the second ride on her and I don't let anyone on my bikes.

 :help:
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: willyB on November 07, 2011, 11:04:09 AM
$4800 for a 120R engine?  Well, my bike has 37k miles on her, so I know what I'll be replacing that engine with.  ;-)

Maybe Willy can come over to my house and help me with the install.  Free food and drinks!  Hell, I'll let you take the second ride on her and I don't let anyone on my bikes.

 :help:
Hmmmmmm, free food and drinks? You did read that I'm unemployed.
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: Aceboympk on November 07, 2011, 11:07:22 AM
Hmmmmmm, free food and drinks? You did read that I'm unemployed.

I figured you had some time on your hands and what better way to spend that time than installing an 120R engine (you'd be the envy of all your friends) and then going for a ride on her.

Plus food and drinks!!!!  What more can a guy ask for? :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: SE 120R Fullsac X Pipe dyno test!
Post by: willyB on November 07, 2011, 03:05:41 PM
I figured you had some time on your hands and what better way to spend that time than installing an 120R engine (you'd be the envy of all your friends) and then going for a ride on her.

Plus food and drinks!!!!  What more can a guy ask for? :2vrolijk_21:
I'm sorry. I was taking my mid day nap.