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Author Topic: Gear drive cam VS chain  (Read 14652 times)

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08_ScreaminSpringer

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Gear drive cam VS chain
« on: November 10, 2007, 07:27:52 AM »

Ok guys very new to this BUT learning a ton daily!!
I Have a 08 softail CVO 110 im looking at head work this winter a set of stage 4s and a cam ( i think i may have to get pistons also to make to 10:5:1)  i have looked at the SE251 cam. I also price a gear drive cam and was told i need a plate to install cam all was 1400.00. Whats the down fall with the chain drives?  I don't turn the motor up hard i was told the max rpm is 6200 but i would like KILLER bottom end when i roll into it at 2200 or so i what it to pull hard.  Thanks
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rednectum

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 07:36:09 AM »

the new style chain drives seem to work great. i beat the heck out of mine and change cams often enough to inspect the tensioners and plate. so far looks great.

you cant go wrong with gears if you have very little runout------probably out of luck with the 08 model.

check your pm.
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rednectum

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 07:37:14 AM »

cool SE, we were typing the same answer at the same time!!!!!!
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08_ScreaminSpringer

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 08:11:58 AM »

Thanks guy!!! So SE251 cam or other? I still want to ride alot with least problems
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rednectum

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 08:49:29 AM »

you said you wanted the bike to hit really hard at 2200. i would go with an earlier closing cam and match compression accordingly. your head guy will have these answers, choose him wisely.
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 09:51:10 AM »

Not stepping on toes here. But I fail to see the reason to work with a crank that has excessive runout??  If the crank is bad it needs to be replaced, it is not going to get better. Over time the pinion will wear the cam plate and only grow larger in runout.  HD has increased the crank specs to huge numbers as they think it is ok for a crank to have 10 thou runout!!! ( dealer provided me with new crank runout specs)  Sorry but a bad crank is a bad crank. Sooner or later you will have problems with it. The oil pump will not be able to handle that kind of movement and will destroy itself. Why not fix the problem before it happens.  I understand that this is a touchy subject as HD gave many of you a raw deal.  There is no way I would build a engine for a customer that has 5 or 6 thou runout. It will fail given time.

Now the other issue that is not being talked about is the elogation of the postion where the cam is in the plate. The upgraded chain works great but the lack of a bushing is a problem.  Add that along with a crank that is jerking up and down side to side, there will be issues.

Not all are doing this, the ones that we have seen had 5+ crank runout. As I said over time it will break.  These issues never happend with the older engines.  We are seeing a huge change in case casting specs. When we do the timken conversions we have to measure the case height they are all over the place. This is one reason for having a crank go bad, some are spot on and are good to go others are less than what they should be this is causing the crank to be pushed to the right side of the engine in the process the rod , bushings are being forced to the side as well.  It seems that the quality control is getting worse.
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Unbalanced

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 01:02:45 PM »

08 Screaming Springer,

I don't understand the rationale to go to stage 4 headwork / big money not cheap then throw a mediocre cam in the middle of it.   If your building it for a purpose than match the cam to the heads / intake / piston and associated parts.   

I know your looking for information, but I think you are going about this build maybe a bit backwards, in that the head guy should already know your riding style so he can mate your style to a cam / his headwork that will accomplish your end goals.   Fishing for combinations is fine, but expect that you will be trying other cam's and there could be reprocussions from the one off build.   The head builder may setup your heads to work with Cam A that he suggests, but be aware that might not work with cam B because of valve to valve clearance or spring heights, compression or whatever the reason.   I think you should step back and ask your head guy to give you a combination that is something he can show you dyno sheets and references from before you jump in and just pay the money and are disappointed after the fact.



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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 02:02:34 PM »

I agree We get customers on a regular basis that have heads that they paid big money for but have a very small chamber, and they are almost no use for a larger bore or larger lift cams. We try to build packages that will allow you to grow if you want in the future.  Example I can use a dome piston to allow less milling of the head for a smaller CI engine, then later if you decide you want to go bigger the heads can be used. Now we use a spring that will go 650 lift so that leaves some room for a big stick.

Now one more thing we cut valves and seats to work within certain cam profiles so you may have to have the valves re cut but that is minor compared to replacing heads due a 80 cc chamber.   We have a saying do it once do it right the first time. Know what you want up front if the builder you have choosen  tells you otherwise on upgrades in the future find another builder.  I would say that I get approx 40% on builds we have done where the customer now wants to go bigger, They are very happy that they have that road to travel.
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08_ScreaminSpringer

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 02:10:42 PM »

? what is the cc on my stock cvo 110 heads? So do i need to check the run out on the crank 1st.
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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2007, 02:14:23 PM »

Well that is a good question they will run from 97cc to 103. That is the range I have seen them.
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geezerglide

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2007, 06:46:13 PM »

OK you folks with pre 08 Bikes,

Their is an excellent brief explanation of Chain vs. Gear Drive Cams by William Denish in this months Hot Bike on page 112.

Oh by the way the picture of the Cherry Red Bike is mine with the JIMS 120 Race engine, just a cheap plug.

geezerglide
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 06:49:25 PM by geezerglide »
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rednectum

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2007, 07:36:05 PM »

thanks yall, i was being short but diplomatic. 
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SBB

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2007, 07:41:21 PM »

thanks yall, i was being short but diplomatic

You diplomatic?

 :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

I like the blunt Dennis myself!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 05:41:30 PM »

Just looking for advice:

If you send the crank to Darkhorse Crankworks and put in a new cam support plate such as the R&R or the new SE aluminum billet plate (6061-T6 heat treated to T6 with pressed in bronze bushings) would you still need to spend the money on a gear drive? Would the new style chain drive get it done?

JW
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rednectum

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Re: Gear drive cam VS chain
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 07:11:09 PM »

Just looking for advice:

If you send the crank to Darkhorse Crankworks and put in a new cam support plate such as the R&R or the new SE aluminum billet plate (6061-T6 heat treated to T6 with pressed in bronze bushings) would you still need to spend the money on a gear drive? Would the new style chain drive get it done?

JW

are you wanting to compare chain vs gear on 07-08 bikes? say something dude, i have an opinion on this.
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