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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on October 30, 2012, 09:16:54 AM

Title: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on October 30, 2012, 09:16:54 AM
bike is a 2009 t/b is a 58 MM SE item.. Pipe is a D&D zilla.. I put the wrong listing on the sheet.. Other than that a direct bolt in..
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: 11seshark on October 30, 2012, 09:43:40 AM
 :drink:Had an S&S 124 in 01 Roadglide--It was a BLAST to ride, Enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bmcgc on October 30, 2012, 09:00:31 PM
That thing needs a rider backrest....how else will you stay on?
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Cvostu on October 31, 2012, 07:17:53 AM
Those numbers look great! :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on October 31, 2012, 10:43:19 AM
The engine really does run very well. Great to have another option for a crate engine. I have another going together, some slight changes, should have it done soon.. Waiting on the 66 MM t/b to come back. Will post it up as well..
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: laylonlor on November 07, 2012, 08:53:07 PM
is the crank welded on the s/s 124? ......a friend of mine wants to sell me one for 6k
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: guppytrash on November 07, 2012, 09:59:49 PM
 :drink:
66MM t/b HOLY shnikes!
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Zinister on December 25, 2012, 02:33:36 PM
I have a friend with a G2 126, how much am I giving up to him with this motor? Also what is the cost difference, never asked what he paid for the G2 126.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Phantom309 on December 26, 2012, 12:03:26 AM
 :2vrolijk_21: I wish I had a dyno sheet like that for mine! That will be a fun ride.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: prodrag1320 on December 26, 2012, 07:29:22 AM
bang for your bucks (& reliability/depenadability) the S&S 124" is pretty hard to beat!!
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bigdave110 on December 27, 2012, 01:33:13 PM
GMR,


I love S&S products.
When I get on the site, it says nothing about 09 and up bikes.
Am I missing that, if so I would like to know.
I may keep one of these bikes longer then the 2 year warranty if I can put a good engine in!
Right now MOCO is not doing much from year to year except paint and I do not trust the engine past the 2 year warranty and I will not purchase a esp.
If I can find a drop in that has reliability like a S&S, I would prob keep my 12 for a long time.
As it stands, it will get traded this July otherwise.
Please let me know on the engine.

Thank you for your time.

Big Dave
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: cherryseeg2 on December 27, 2012, 04:50:25 PM
http://www.starracing.com/vengines.php
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Midnight Rider on December 27, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
With all the Timken work already done, that pricing is not too bad.  If you have a black tranny.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: cherryseeg2 on December 27, 2012, 08:49:30 PM
With all the Timken work already done, that pricing is not too bad.  If you have a black tranny.
I think I read somewhere S&S will do granite for a small upcharge.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bigdave110 on December 28, 2012, 07:59:54 PM
http://www.starracing.com/vengines.php

Thank you sir.
I like it. ;D ;D ;D

Big Dave
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Unbalanced on December 28, 2012, 08:08:29 PM
I have a friend with a G2 126, how much am I giving up to him with this motor? Also what is the cost difference, never asked what he paid for the G2 126.

Zinister,

25-40 hp/tq is what you are giving up to the G2.   Most of the G2 126" motors I have seen have been mid 150-mid 160's  depending on cam/setup.

Get the heads done on the 124" Crate Motor and and you should be in the 140's give or take with throttlebody, exhaust, tune.     
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bigdave110 on December 29, 2012, 10:13:49 AM
I just wanted to add some info I found out yesterday.
Called S&S, spoke with a tech guy. (Scott)
He told me the engine from Star is not from them, that is why it is not listed on there web site.
I found that interesting.
He also stated that the main kit may be from S&S, the cases where not.
Something to do with a deal with the MOCO.
He would not tell me more! :(

Some or most of you guys prob already know this, I however, did not.
Just wanted to post for the other people that may have thought it was a S&S engine.

This info does not not stop me from considering this engine, just nice info to have.

 I do like the 1 year warranty offered with the engine as the 120 has none.

I guess what I am saying is, not matter what engine you would choose, it's nice to have choices. ;D ;D

Anyone please correct me if I misstated anything.

Big Dave
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Unbalanced on December 29, 2012, 11:42:44 AM
BigDave,

The cases are the Screamin Eagle Cases that S&S is using, so the motor will work in the 07 and up style twin cam motor.   S&S is also doing all the reman motors for Harley.   Guess it is all part of the deal they made.  You will also note that S&S has some bigger throttlebodies as well, but I did hear they require a core, haven't validated that yet.

If you are truly considering the 124" '07 up S&S motor "I" would go into with the mindset of 124/124 and if you get better great if you dont you wont be disappointed.

The 1 year warranty is pretty nice and in my experience S&S has been great to deal with.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bigdave110 on December 29, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
BigDave,

The cases are the Screamin Eagle Cases that S&S is using, so the motor will work in the 07 and up style twin cam motor.   S&S is also doing all the reman motors for Harley.   Guess it is all part of the deal they made.  You will also note that S&S has some bigger throttlebodies as well, but I did hear they require a core, haven't validated that yet.

If you are truly considering the 124" '07 up S&S motor "I" would go into with the mindset of 124/124 and if you get better great if you dont you wont be disappointed.

The 1 year warranty is pretty nice and in my experience S&S has been great to deal with.

Thanks so much for the input.
I figured that tech couldn't tell me everything.
I am thinking about it, and at that price, why not.

I have used s&s parts in the past, and always with out problem.
So I do have faith in them.
124-124 should be more then enough to hall my fat butt around pretty good.

Big Dave






Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: WestCoastRuss on December 29, 2012, 01:32:16 PM
If the S&S 124 was paid for out of pocket, I wonder if the "Extended Service Agreement" (if one had a few years left on that for example) would cover any future motor problems?
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Midnight Rider on December 29, 2012, 02:28:07 PM
If the S&S 124 was paid for out of pocket, I wonder if the "Extended Service Agreement" (if one had a few years left on that for example) would cover any future motor problems?

There's no way the ESP is going to pay for a motor that has problems and is not a HD engine that came stock in the bike.  Regardless of who pays for the replacement engine.  It's not a stock engine by a long shot, and it's not made by HD.  The ESP only pays for stock components.  They have been known to "look the other way" if a person has done cams, pipes and a tune, though doing ANY motor work is risky with regards to future coverage.  Technically, the ESP is voided by doing any modifications whatsoever, if you read the contract.  Even if they did not void the entire agreement, the best you could hope for is replacement of the radio or other such things.  The entire drive train would definitely be excluded, including tranny, primary, clutch, etc.  They don't have to pay for any of that stuff if you simply put a trailer hitch on your bike.

That would be like me expecting them to pay for new Legend Air Shocks, or Traxxion AK-20 cartridges on my bike if they failed...ain't going to happen.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: justaguy on December 29, 2012, 10:05:08 PM
The S&S 124" crate engine does come with a 1 year S&S warranty
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: cvobiker on December 30, 2012, 01:16:03 PM
The S&S 124 is very tempting..  The price is good and performance very good.... I'm not a fan of easy start cams though,,  wonder if they would special order them out?  
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Zinister on December 30, 2012, 02:55:41 PM
Is the 126 faster reving then the 124? I did ask my buddy what he paid for his 126 and it was allot more than the 124 asking price. But he got one of the first ones out several years ago.

Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: SDCVO on December 30, 2012, 04:07:23 PM
Looks like the 126 will not fit in a 2012/13?
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Zinister on December 30, 2012, 05:16:15 PM
You are correct about 126 only fitting in 06 and under frames.

My comment was concerning the bore/stroke ratio of the 126 vs 124.

The B2 heads on the 126 cause some modification to the exhaust and intake on the 126. But the SOB does run good!!

For the money and price I think my choice would be the 124 even without the new frame ('09 and later) consideration.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: SDCVO on December 30, 2012, 05:38:40 PM
You are correct about 126 only fitting in 06 and under frames.

My comment was concerning the bore/stroke ratio of the 126 vs 124.

The B2 heads on the 126 cause some modification to the exhaust and intake on the 126. But the SOB does run good!!

For the money and price I think my choice would be the 124 even without the new frame ('09 and later) consideration.
What exhaust would you use? Currently have the Fat Catz which I do love but understand I would have to change to the Boarzilla with that motor for maximum performance. My brother in law runs the CFR's which sound absolutely amazing and look great but if I do this motor, looking for maximum performance.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HD Street Performance on December 30, 2012, 07:46:05 PM
I will be changing my boarzilla out on my 07 next summer for the Dragula 2 into 1. Performs better and is an awesome design.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Supershooter on December 30, 2012, 08:35:19 PM
Waiting to see the 66mm TB dyno run, is it coming anytime soon?
Supershooter
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on January 02, 2013, 10:20:25 AM
The bike ran very well.  Update got soome messages on what was in the engine.

We replaced the stock triple valve springs with a set of bee hive springs, cleaned up the heads, and a .030 head gasket. T/B is the 66 MM and the S&S backing plate kit with larger filter. Tuner was a TTS , clutch was a bandit. 6.2 injectors.

Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: zer0t on January 02, 2013, 01:30:20 PM
Why do a 120R if this has a better bottom end, more power and only a couple hundred bucks more?  This may solve my 110" problem for less than I thought.  I guess I'd have to swap the tranny to get rid of the CVO granite with the black only motor, eh?
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: guppytrash on January 02, 2013, 02:24:04 PM
Why do a 120R if this has a better bottom end, more power and only a couple hundred bucks more?  This may solve my 110" problem for less than I thought. 

I am curious if this is correct?  I read somewhere that the S&S uses timken bearings and I just assumed S&S was a better bottom end than a 120r also.

I would agree with zer0t, this makes the S&S the obvious buy over the 120R but I would like to hear from some more knowledgeable than me.

Just to check on what is in the fine print to make sure we are not overlooking some facts.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: zer0t on January 02, 2013, 03:26:36 PM
I read on the website that it has the timken bearing.  I've heard from a reputable guy the S&S bottom end is stout.

I found this on the link to the motor.

Benefits of S&S 124" Engine vs the SE120R

4 cubes
EZ Start cams
Timken Sleeve and Timken Left Main Bearing
Better Oil Pump - cooler temperatures, 83% more scavenge
Adjustable Pushrods
Roller Rocker Arms
1 year warranty
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Zinister on January 02, 2013, 08:21:28 PM
I think at this price i would go S&S way before the 120R.

Wonder how long before HD raises hell about this motor competing with the 120?
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: guppytrash on January 02, 2013, 08:25:52 PM
I think at this price i would go S&S way before the 120R.

Wonder how long before HD raises hell about this motor competing with the 120?

Exactly what I was thinking on both points.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: zer0t on January 02, 2013, 09:42:52 PM
I saw it for 7995 without throttle body. You can get a 66mm from s&s for about 550 with yours as a core. This is a serious consideration.

Now I'm wondering if I keep or sell my 110. I'm thinking keep it cause it ain't worth much and for resale I can swap it back in.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on January 03, 2013, 07:12:27 AM
The engine is right on par with the SE 120 "IF" you are paying retail for the SE engine. Walk in customers have a better shot at getting a deal on the SE engine at discount than shops do, but that is another story. There are a few dealers out there taking care of the shops but not many.

The S&S engine is a very nice unit. Zer0t, if this is a direction you are looking at. Easy fix on the trans take it apart, most areas have some one that will powder coat. We have a small oven and can get parts up to rims in it. Simple really for your set up.

Cost wise the 124 has a retail price of 6295. Add in the 66 MM t/b and the S&S 66 MM backing plate and air cleaner, a bandit clutch, injectors, tuner, good ex and you are ready to go.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: bowtech40 on January 05, 2013, 02:07:59 PM
  I have been reading this post with interest, and thought I would chime in. The 124 uses SE cases, and has a much better crank assembly and the timken bearing. I have a few friends that have the 120R that ride hard, and I can say they have never had any crank issues as of yet, and the standard lefty bearing seems to be holding up also. The G2 126 is a different animal all together. It uses SA cases which are huge and beefy, and also has a longer pinion shaft to compansate for the big cases. I have seen one, and they look tough as nails for a touring bike.
    As far as putting one in a 06 and newer chassis, it can and is being done at Star Racing. All you need is an older 5 speed and complete primary set up, and it will drop right in. I spoke with Derrick on the phone about this, and they have 2 being done in the shop now. They can supply you with short exhast adapters so you can cut and fit the exhaust of your choice, and they have intakes also. I was going to do this myself on my 07 117, but traded on the skunk instead. Now I have the bike that caught my eye, but am going from 137/139 back to a turd!!  :( Having been down the road of doing a few 117`s, I know how expensive it can get. My only thought on the 124 and the SE cases is that I had my 117 pull the cylinder studs out of the rear cylinder costing me another set of cases I am sure and was told buy a few that it could have been due to a bad heat treat on the cases, because the new ones worked like a champ until I traded.


Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HD Street Performance on January 05, 2013, 03:16:23 PM
Generally speaking IME there are a lot happier guys that have bought either 120r or S&S 124" motors than the built it 117. I have reasons why but won't bore anyone with that. The 124 will make 130 out of the box and needs no "clean up". No clean up and the warranty remains intact. They are set to a conservative state at that level and will run very far reliably if they are maintained and not flogged too hard.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Zinister on January 12, 2013, 04:15:17 PM
Please bore me, I was going the 117 route with my 110 in a couple years
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HD Street Performance on January 12, 2013, 04:45:28 PM
The cost is close to the same after the stock 3/8" crank is reworked with decent rods and with these late models a 4.625" SE or S&S crank is superior.
The S&S 124" cylinder and matching pistons are longer spigot than most of the 117" offerings and stable. The HD 120r piston and cylinder package is also very stable and long lasting.
Longevity, power and value, simple as that.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Hog95023 on February 23, 2013, 07:47:23 PM
I need one of these in my bike!!!!!  What injectors were used
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: kcbike on March 11, 2013, 08:52:23 PM
S&S has 124 for 07 and up. not in new catalog just call and ask. i talked to them at cincy dealer show. as long as they don't run out of harley cases they can make you one
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Ohio HD on March 25, 2013, 06:28:53 PM
Nice one!     :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on March 25, 2013, 09:49:31 PM
We are setting one in a chassis in the next few days.
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Snowyone on May 08, 2013, 02:47:21 AM
Know this is an old post but was looking for cam suggestions for a S&S 124 with the 4 5/8 stoke crank.  this is going in an 2011 Fatboy.  Using 110 heads that are being worked over; cases getting Timken bearings; HPI 58 throttle body with 62mm manifold; using the SE oil pump and cam plate with gear drive cams that I haven't made up my mind about; SE compensator; SE clutch; Baker 7 speed; Don't see much action over 5500 rpm and between me and my bride we're no lite weights.  I had originally chose a TW400G Woods cam but that was for a 107 build that went away with the dial indicator reading 005 plus. I am keeping the compression down to like 10 to 1 because of gas quality concerns and starting issues.  Bob says I'm going to have starting issues and need two compression releases.  Don't want that.  Please help cause I've read till im blind and still in a quandary.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on May 08, 2013, 06:24:43 AM
Used the 400 one time in a local 124"er.
VERY TOUCHY throttle, and the client was intimidated by his want for low end power.
We've used the 408 in 124"s also.
Still hit's like a hammer, and with a good set of heads, rolls out the back door as well.
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on May 08, 2013, 07:13:10 AM
Know this is an old post but was looking for cam suggestions for a S&S 124 with the 4 5/8 stoke crank.  this is going in an 2011 Fatboy.  Using 110 heads that are being worked over; cases getting Timken bearings; HPI 58 throttle body with 62mm manifold; using the SE oil pump and cam plate with gear drive cams that I haven't made up my mind about; SE compensator; SE clutch; Baker 7 speed; Don't see much action over 5500 rpm and between me and my bride we're no lite weights.  I had originally chose a TW400G Woods cam but that was for a 107 build that went away with the dial indicator reading 005 plus. I am keeping the compression down to like 10 to 1 because of gas quality concerns and starting issues.  Bob says I'm going to have starting issues and need two compression releases.  Don't want that.  Please help cause I've read till im blind and still in a quandary.




As for the compression release why not opt for a S&S cam with easy start feature. A 10.1 compression 124 with a S&S 585 ES cam would make huge low-mid range power would sign off somewhere in the 5000-5500 range.  S&S has an option in the 124 crate engine for low compression with the 585 installed with reduced compression over the version we where dealing with.  Good luck with the build sounds good.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: CVOThunder on May 08, 2013, 08:03:17 AM
Sounds like a good way to go. Kinda like a big inch big block where the size brings the torque/streetability without going too wild on the cam.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Snowyone on May 10, 2013, 06:35:21 PM
Thank you for the support.  So thoughts were on the 408 with a bit more duration might be a better choice?  I'd thought about the S&S cam with the easy start feature but had already bought the Woods cam for my 107 build and Bob might trade me.  He told me I'm going to have starter problems and that's not something I want but he was heading to the airport for Germany and couldn' elaborate. So a cam that would bleed of a bit of compression on the start might be good.  I already have ACR's on the 110 heads and he suggested another set of manuals.  I'm used to the manuals on my Dyna 107 so maybe I'll try it.  Changing the cams not a big deal except on the pocket book. 
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on May 11, 2013, 06:15:19 AM
The 585, while it is a greatcam, used in the proper set-up will in no way,shape, or form,have that extrodinary torque curve that either the 400, or the 408 will have in a 124"er, properly set up.
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on May 15, 2013, 07:44:43 AM
So Bob told you that starting would be an issue with current cam .. Guess its an easy choice now.. The 585 ES is a nice easy going cam that is very friendly to valve train, easy to tune etc.. no extra comp releases, etc .  Having a great running engine is not always about bragging rights, or having the best peak numbers.

 Good luck
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Hog95023 on May 25, 2013, 10:03:27 PM
What was the end result
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: hd-dude on May 29, 2013, 05:10:47 PM
Just Finished up a 124" Crate Motor
09 FLH
66mm Throttle Hog
S&S Stealth AC with taller Element
5.3 SE Injectors
D&D Boarzilla
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: sadunbar on May 29, 2013, 05:55:17 PM
Just Finished up a 124" Crate Motor
09 FLH
66mm Throttle Hog
S&S Stealth AC with taller Element
5.3 SE Injectors
D&D Boarzilla

Nice result...  Another nice tune by Bob...   :2vrolijk_21:

What cams come in this motor, Jim?    That's a lot of throttle body!  
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Unbalanced on May 29, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
Scott,

They come with S&S 640 EZ start.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: sadunbar on May 29, 2013, 05:58:06 PM
Scott,

They come with S&S 640 EZ start.

 :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on May 29, 2013, 06:01:38 PM
very NICE !!!  here is a bone stocker in a 09 RK , very close numbers even with my correction factor that some feel is helping me.. Guess not .


Set up on this was with a 58 SE and se air filter I think the baffle was the wrapped version.. Don't recall now. But other than the intake its making the same power.. Again very nice,, that is a ton of fun to ride around.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Unbalanced on May 29, 2013, 06:06:25 PM
Dyno it in Texas LOL      :D   :D   :D   :D     ::)
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on May 29, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
YOU know I will Harry  :orange:  Got two S&S 124s sitting in the clean room right now. Cant wait to see how the one does as we are sending another to  Western Australia

Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Unbalanced on May 29, 2013, 10:16:54 PM
Yup I know you got those 2 there, figured if things would fall in line for you that you would already be well on your way to getting them finished.

Looking forward to seeing how they came out.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Hog95023 on May 30, 2013, 12:36:44 AM
Just Finished up a 124" Crate Motor
09 FLH
66mm Throttle Hog
S&S Stealth AC with taller Element
5.3 SE Injectors
D&D Boarzilla

. Looks like it runs strong  :cucumber:
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 16, 2013, 03:48:24 PM
So would the low compression (10.2) with the 585 cam be a good choice for a RG touring bike. Then I'll need to decide what to do with the procharger?

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on July 17, 2013, 10:30:25 AM
Sure going with the low compression engine would be a great choice. I have not use the 585 cam with a S/C but overall it is not out of the question as it has enough duration . I feel that since you have the 585 give it a try if it does not work well go from there. I would think that low boost with the 585 cam should put you in the high 180 range with ease.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 17, 2013, 10:42:50 AM
I was just asking because that is one of the cam choices offered by S&S. Looks like my motor (built 124 with Tman's 662-2) is trashed. Not sure what happened but maybe some stuff on the cam side and the heads are good. So I need a motor for the bike. Got any suggestions where I can get a good price on a crate 124 of have someone to build it? Not sure if I going to use the procharger or not.
Its going into a 09 SERG with some custom frame work. Looking for lots of usable torque for 2 up touring but the prochager is cool. Just not sure how reliable it is. Just bought the bike and put a few miles and it blew up.

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on July 17, 2013, 10:53:11 AM
the crate engine is a very good choice, adding a pro charger will up the power levels however nothing in the area that I would call low end tq. 
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 17, 2013, 11:27:04 AM
So does that mean that trying to build a 124 touring motor with a procharger is a bad idea?

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HOGMIKE on July 17, 2013, 11:50:37 AM
I was just asking because that is one of the cam choices offered by S&S. Looks like my motor (built 124 with Tman's 662-2) is trashed. Not sure what happened but maybe some stuff on the cam side and the heads are good. So I need a motor for the bike. Got any suggestions where I can get a good price on a crate 124 of have someone to build it? Not sure if I going to use the procharger or not.
Its going into a 09 SERG with some custom frame work. Looking for lots of usable torque for 2 up touring but the prochager is cool. Just not sure how reliable it is. Just bought the bike and put a few miles and it blew up.

BigLew

FWIW
One of my club members had the 124 with turbo on his SERK.....blew it up between Vegas and Mesquite.
My 113 (detuned) ran just fine on the same trip. We were running just about 80-85 most of the way.
IMHO, his could not handle the heat in the desert.
We could not always get good gas.
If you are thinking touring......KISS.
 8)
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 17, 2013, 12:08:35 PM
I think the procharger would be fine with the intercooler and a good tune. just doesnt make a lot of torque at 3,000 rpms!

Biglew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on July 17, 2013, 02:12:03 PM
Yes it would run fine if you kept it off boost with crap gas. Or just use a meth system,... we have been working with Snow systems for a long time, on bikes and automotive and along with diesels. Last turbo upgrade we did the meth system made a huge change in over all power , ease of tuning and it was not even close to being fuel picky.  Always options . :)
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 17, 2013, 02:18:26 PM
Yea I understand that. I've done a few cars with the chargers. My concerns are czn I get enough torque at 3k to make a decient touring bike with the blower on it. Guess I'm looking at the best of both worlds. Dependable touring bagger that I can also from time to time have some fun with. Is that possible?

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on July 18, 2013, 09:43:56 AM
Yes I do feel that it is something that can be done..., provided you can keep boost low and not turn it into a street strip style build. You can have something that will be a very nice mix between the two.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 18, 2013, 05:40:42 PM
Anyone compare the Tman 662-2 with the 640 that comes in the 124 crate motor? I ran the 662-2 in a 124 man it had a great lick and pulled out the top especially when we put the charger on it. But if I can get 135-40 ft/lbs in the 3-4500 range I might leave the blower off. Its cool but a lot of trouble. So how will those cams compare and sound?
Bike had custom pipes on it . I think it started with cycle shack's 2" head pipe. wonder if they will work

BigLew

Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on July 18, 2013, 05:45:39 PM
Look at the dyno sheet I posted we have another 3 just completed and 3 more to get going on. The 640 does very well and has a very broad power curve when matched with the correct items.  ;D
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on July 18, 2013, 05:55:19 PM
I saw that, just wondering how it would compare with the 662-2 because that is what I had in the last 124?

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: hrdtail78 on July 19, 2013, 07:56:57 PM
What kind of down low tq are you thinking you want?  I have no comparisons but I am a fan of the 662-2's.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Hog95023 on June 08, 2014, 08:02:30 PM
The bike ran very well.  Update got soome messages on what was in the engine.

We replaced the stock triple valve springs with a set of bee hive springs, cleaned up the heads, and a .030 head gasket. T/B is the 66 MM and the S&S backing plate kit with larger filter. Tuner was a TTS , clutch was a bandit. 6.2 injectors.
I'm leaning toward touching up my heads and raising the compression. 11.2 seems to work good here in your sheet. Would 11.4 or 11.5 be pushing the envelope too much? I wish I had the flywheels welded now.  :-*

I'm referencing the sheet you posted on page 2, reply #29. I'm using a zillia and 5.3 inj, but could switch to 6.2 easy enough.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on June 09, 2014, 12:49:44 PM
Maybe swapping to a short cam would be a better route . IF you are looking for the down low grunt. Cams for the crate engine are limited due to the oil pump set up. What ex are you running?  Keeping touring in mind limited choice on fuel quality, option may be use of a PV tuner to have more than one map. Or keeping the dynamic comp ratio to run on poor gas and giving up the Hp for a broad low to mid range tq curve. The 585 cam is extremely fun and easy going in a 124. Several 585 low comp crate 124 that we installed last year. All ran great with massive throttle response and for a 850+ bike run very strong.  The 585 tuned with a good ex will produce 120 TQ by 2700 where as the 640 cam in a 11.2 comp 124 crate engine is going to be more in the 300-3200 range for the same tq .. AVG looking over almost 2 dozen crate engines  585 and 640 from last year.  If you decide on a procharger I would look to have static compression no higher than 10.5 and run a cam like the 640. As when you add in the boost to the static the tune will need to be spot on.. We have been installing a custom made meth kit with the turbo and pro charger bikes. More work more money and one more thing to keep your eye one. However meth kits all for a massive reduction in combustion temps.  Washer solvent is the norm for fluid on touring bikes . Boost juice for a hotter less touring more so hot rod set up. Meth is only on when bike is under boost.. Messed around with it on NA as well. It works but no real huge gains..
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: BigLew on June 09, 2014, 01:19:19 PM
Ok seems to be good info. The old 124 had the 662 and made a lot of Hp up top but didn't really care about that very much. This stock S&S 124 has the 640 (I believe) but the profile really bleeds off a lot of boost. Tuner says not a great cam combo especially for the TQ. We basically set the limit at 6200 because of lack fuel. pretty happy with the tuner (Jody at Tilley's in NC). 198 HP/ 165 TQ but its all above 3200. Wish I had a little more mid range grunt. @ up on a touring bike with 400lbs of me and the misses combined is a lot to carry.

BigLew
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Classic Beast on June 16, 2014, 10:04:48 AM
Lots of good information, it seems only one that has run the S&S 126, anyone else?  I keep running into information about this motor, with the larger bore 4 3/8, shorter stroke and the B2 heads I would think it would have a higher top end but also with the shorter stroke 4.187 it should live a lot longer. It appears the New S&S cases are good for 4 3/8 bore so this should be able to fit a 2012 road glide ultra? Does anyone know if this has been done? The 4 bolt exhaust ports cuts down on your exhaust choices but I know RB racing makes pipes with this flange.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 29, 2014, 06:26:21 PM
I'm late to the party, sorry about that.

I can tell you some about the 126 but it is by no means definitive.

My 126 is in a 93 FXR and it bolts right in. Header fit is tight but not a problem. Changing rocker box gaskets probably is and it looks as if the engine needs to come out.

All S&S 126 engines are twin cam but available in cases with Evo engine mounts, too. A wiring adapter harness is needed and an Evo ignition module will not work.

I already had a Baker 5 speed, so I can't say if the stock trans is OK. The 126 only took a couple pulls at half throttle and 4th gear to fry the clutch, a Barnett clutch that was adequate for a nasty 120 with ported STD heads and a 266* .650 lift cam. Took a week after that to fry the starter drive, and another couple months to get the next one and I use the fancy drives made in USA with a sprag. The motor will find the weak spots if you don't already know what they are and for that matter, it will find them even if you do know. I am using the S&S high strength drive belt and if (when) it goes I'll switch to chain.

I use RB Racing Pro Stock Spyder head pipes (I cut the muffler off) grafted to a 2.5" Supertrapp muffler with no disks. The Spyder muffler sounded like crap and cost both power and torque. Now power is everywhere.  You don't get that big torque hit down low but it hits hard enough to spin the tire at any throttle more than about 1/3 in 1st gear, which is good. On rare occasions when the tire does hook up, the front tire comes up.  So you end up replacing rear tires when the front has very little wear. At first I was hoping for more low end torque but then realist woke up and let me know that you really don't need any more torque than this in the FXR or Dyna, and if it had more you would get in trouble a lot sooner and deeper.

Power over 4K RPM and half throttle is scary. That 120 was pretty strong and this thing makes it feel like something was wrong with it.

The 126 needs a bigger pipe. I'm thinking a good step pipe. Star Racing suggests 2"->2.125->2.250, if I remember correctly. They want $1900 for their pipe, so I will make my own when I can. Or help a friend who has a TIG welder.

It needs a lot of carb, too. I used first an S&S G, then had John Sachs bore it from 44mm to 47. That was a lot better.  Now I am running a Mikuni 48 and it feels better than either S&S but still held back. Star Racing suggested an S&S D carb but they are no fun on the street. Maybe when my rich aunt dies I can afford one of the hot rod shops to work one over and civilize it.

So, for you FI guys I don't know which throttle body is best, but I would guess 55-60 MM.

I had Star cut the heads for higher compression and port them. Can't say how much this helped, but I am pretty content with it now.

I didn't want to make this message about me, but I thought it might be important to post what I did and any ideas or reactions about what happened and if it might be better.

The lesson so far is that if this thing is to be optimum, then many areas need TLC. If you aren't prepared to go the whole route, then save some money and get a milder 120, 124 or one of the Ultimas. They have the big torque and aren't as fussy about pipes and induction.

There are many here with more experience than me, so listen to then about the nuts and bolts technical aspects.  This is just from the POV of a recently destitute owner, an owner driven to the poorhouse by this thing letting me know which parts are inadequate.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 29, 2014, 06:38:35 PM
bullwinkle Have you thought about the twin G carbs on the extreme manifold . They can be tuned to be extremely smooth for the 126 for the street, T jets is the norm.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 30, 2014, 09:41:38 AM
I gave them some thought but don't know a thing about synchronizing or tuning more than one carb. Then I thought that two Gs might be too much carb for the street. Seems that they would sized like a single carb feeding a 63" engine with about 75-80 HP and an E might be perfect for that with 2 Gs being overcarbed.  Seems that G carbs might not be as good as E carbs until maybe 190-200 HP. Then again, I could be missing something. Have before, will again.

Then you have the issue of gas mileage. It is fair to say that if mileage is an issue then the 126 should not be in there and I don't disagree. But my son & I go to western NC and Tenn. from time to time and gas stations with premium are not as common there as we would like. An extra 10 miles per tankful can save a lot of pushing.

So, we all have our compromises to make and knowing where to make this one is a challenge.

Thanks for the suggestion. If you get time, let me know how far off the reservation I am regarding G vs. E carb sizing.
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on September 30, 2014, 10:19:14 AM
Dual-carb tuning is not a big deal.
When we devolped our Cross-Ram Double-D, and Double-B systems, with multiple-t/jets in either system, they tuned right in(made more power) on the dyno's that they had been ran on.
Manufacturing a Twin-G system now for a client.
FWIW, we had the very first AHDRA Modified Class Bike with dual-carbs when the rule-change went into effect years ago. :)
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: johnsachs on September 30, 2014, 07:18:44 PM
I gave them some thought but don't know a thing about synchronizing or tuning more than one carb. Then I thought that two Gs might be too much carb for the street. Seems that they would sized like a single carb feeding a 63" engine with about 75-80 HP and an E might be perfect for that with 2 Gs being overcarbed.  Seems that G carbs might not be as good as E carbs until maybe 190-200 HP. Then again, I could be missing something. Have before, will again.

Then you have the issue of gas mileage. It is fair to say that if mileage is an issue then the 126 should not be in there and I don't disagree. But my son & I go to western NC and Tenn. from time to time and gas stations with premium are not as common there as we would like. An extra 10 miles per tankful can save a lot of pushing.

So, we all have our compromises to make and knowing where to make this one is a challenge.

Thanks for the suggestion. If you get time, let me know how far off the reservation I am regarding G vs. E carb sizing.

Bull,
You may want to get hold of James Simonelli at Baker trans. for his experience with 2 carbs. He started out with 2 48 MIK's, sent me 2 "G" carbs to do, and said they worked good. At the end of the day he went to a "D".
His motor is bigger than yours. Street and strip. He's running 9.60s.
John
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Jswerve on September 30, 2014, 07:59:41 PM
Bull,
You may want to get hold of James Simonelli at Baker trans. for his experience with 2 carbs. He started out with 2 48 MIK's, sent me 2 "G" carbs to do, and said they worked good. At the end of the day he went to a "D".
His motor is bigger than yours. Street and strip. He's running 9.60s.
John

There you have it, a Sachs sighting!
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on October 01, 2014, 07:31:05 AM
Our Dual-B Cross-Ram intake system helped power the worlds quickest(at the time) 107" XL to a BLISTERING 8.58 @ 152 plus mph, Maple Grove, PA, owned by Rick Muse, Salem, NH, Ganno's Machine, Pelham, NH.
Bike ran an 8.52 in Epping, NH as well.
We know a thing or 3 about dual-carb set-ups................ :)
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: prodrag1320 on October 01, 2014, 07:44:51 AM
duals carbs will work very well if set up right,we`ve also had a lot of experience with dual carbs,running 8.14 on gas in the 90`s on our pro gas bikes.the S&S set up for the 126"`s is similar to what we were running (we used 2 D carbs though)
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on October 01, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
Looked it up on a photo they had sent us.
8.61
8.62
8.58
8.61
152.42 mph.
Could have been a bracket bike......haha. :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: Hotbo on October 02, 2014, 10:58:29 PM
Dual-carb tuning is not a big deal.
When we devolped our Cross-Ram Double-D, and Double-B systems, with multiple-t/jets in either system, they tuned right in(made more power) on the dyno's that they had been ran on.
Manufacturing a Twin-G system now for a client.
FWIW, we had the very first AHDRA Modified Class Bike with dual-carbs when the rule-change went into effect years ago. :)
Scott

That Twin-G intake i look forward to Brother!
Title: Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
Post by: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on October 03, 2014, 05:19:45 AM
 :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Scott