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Author Topic: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.  (Read 66408 times)

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HD Street Performance

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You have it. I have covered this well and voiced my opinion. Now others can chime in.
If you have a minute look at the difference in weight of the valves when comparing cams and noise. that is what I mean by motor configuration. This fact and the valvespring used is critical to noise levels. Rowe, Kibblewhite, Ferrea, and others list the weights. Light valves with lower spring pressures and light retainers generally run quieter. Or should I say there is a higher probability of them running quieter. There are far too many factors including installation techniques, stem protrusion, seat being concentric, guide to stem clearance, and many others to predict noise levels. I had a complaint once that the TW26 Andrews cam was noisy as an example, but I would not suggest this is normal.
I have done several with the 103" 07up and stock heads that I have only Blueprinted so I know what to expect. Lots of torque over a wide band and decent hp, low noise level.
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happyman

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You have it. I have covered this well and voiced my opinion. Now others can chime in.
If you have a minute look at the difference in weight of the valves when comparing cams and noise. that is what I mean by motor configuration. This fact and the valvespring used is critical to noise levels. Rowe, Kibblewhite, Ferrea, and others list the weights. Light valves with lower spring pressures and light retainers generally run quieter. Or should I say there is a higher probability of them running quieter. There are far too many factors including installation techniques, stem protrusion, seat being concentric, guide to stem clearance, and many others to predict noise levels. I had a complaint once that the TW26 Andrews cam was noisy as an example, but I would not suggest this is normal.
I have done several with the 103" 07up and stock heads that I have only Blueprinted so I know what to expect. Lots of torque over a wide band and decent hp, low noise level.

very good.  So if i were to just install the 5-6 in  the 103", i expect a quite valve train?
Just to be clear Don, am not trying to give you a hard time at all. or get into a match withy you.not what i do. 
i realize lots of people thrive on harrasing people, i don't do it nor do i expect it. seems on a forum at times things seem to get taken out of context.. i for one appreciate the info you have to share.
hope you realize this . 
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HD Street Performance

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I know and how could I say it will run quiet with a clear conscious? Some do and some don't. Not just a Woods cam argument. IME when I sold them they were quiet in that configuration. I did the heads though and I set them up my way. Nothing special or unique to my methods just what any good head shop would do.
What somebody else does and even the install comes into play. What pushrods are used? Are the boxes and supports centered, Will the side play and rocker bushing clearance be checked? What about the rockers stock?? Rollers? There are so many factors that are so far out of my control I would be a fool to promise anything.
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johnsachs

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"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Weak springs + high lift fast cams = premature valve seat wear. :'(
John
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happyman

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I know and how could I say it will run quiet with a clear conscious? Some do and some don't. Not just a Woods cam argument. IME when I sold them they were quiet in that configuration. I did the heads though and I set them up my way. Nothing special or unique to my methods just what any good head shop would do.
What somebody else does and even the install comes into play. What pushrods are used? Are the boxes and supports centered, Will the side play and rocker bushing clearance be checked? What about the rockers stock?? Rollers? There are so many factors that are so far out of my control I would be a fool to promise anything.

now back to the question..
will they be quiet if that is all that is done?   the  rest is elementary   
perhaps you can quiet them down by less seat preasure, or some lifter or another, if they are all in good shape it should make no differance. what i am asking once again is simple.   
lots of people can install a cam and get  things adjusted and centered..   
 
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happyman

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"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Weak springs + high lift fast cams = premature valve seat wear. :'(
John

John, perhaps you could shed a little light on the subject? have to believe you have done  a woods 5-6 a time or two?  what is your experiance with the cam.will the stock valve train on the 2010 ultra LTD be ok? i know the 9-6 was noisey, people could hear me coming three blocks away. it was properly installed.  just the nature of the beast.  many instances of this with differant cams not just woods either.
all i want to do is purchase one cam.
Thanks
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johnsachs

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John, perhaps you could shed a little light on the subject? have to believe you have done  a woods 5-6 a time or two?  what is your experience with the cam.will the stock valve train on the 2010 ultra LTD be ok? i know the 9-6 was noisy, people could hear me coming three blocks away. it was properly installed.  just the nature of the beast.  many instances of this with differant cams not just woods either.
all i want to do is purchase one cam.
Thanks
I've done 2 builds,for insistent customers,using those cams(5-6).I always qualify it by telling them that they WILL be noisy.THEY ARE............... :nixweiss:
Valve spring wise,I use 175 # on the seat with them.IMO,you'll still see premature valve and seat wear.Remember,even the best valve springs lose tension from work.
John
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happyman

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I've done 2 builds,for insistent customers,using those cams(5-6).I always qualify it by telling them that they WILL be noisy.THEY ARE............... :nixweiss:
Valve spring wise,I use 175 # on the seat with them.IMO,you'll still see premature valve and seat wear.Remember,even the best valve springs lose tension from work.
John

[/quote

thanks for the reply, appreciate it. is there a cam that has the higher lift, and early intake close that can pull well dow low  in these big heavy baggers? i have a couple cams laying arond here. one i will not use in my 103" its the  SE 255, the other i was planning on using is the crane 300-2
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HD Street Performance

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The grunt down low comes from dynamic cylinder pressure. The earlier intake close and or fast ramp and high lift cams help accomplish that. Other later close cams can be crutched with added compression to act like this at lower speed although their true sweet spot is higher. There are trade offs and we can always pull the junk out to prove a point. Drop the bomb and then move on. But what is missing is more data. If valve seat life is shortened, how much? Is this a trade-off I am willing to make? So there are logical ways to choose a cam that suits the need. If noise is the focus, the most quiet I have installed are Wild Things cams as a whole, all of them. Andrews, S&S, SE most grinds are not noisy typically. That said the ones that get called on the carpet for noise the most, Woods, vary grind to grind, not all of them are that bad. In my experience as I stated before with stock valve springs, beehives, the TW5-6 runs quiet. I do shim the springs for a little added pressure but they have been used without that. I have a few of these here on daily riden motorcycles and they have in excess of 10k miles no issues yet. As always I respect Johns opinion but we haven't seen any problems as of yet. Time will tell. By the way the TW5-6 is a cam routinely used by our main performance dealer in the northwest, Latus Harley Davidson, for many of their late model builds and they do use stock springs in some cases depending on the head package used.
Side note, I am not a Woods troll. I would and do use and sell many other grinds. I also recommend many I don't sell. This one just fits the bill in this case.
Back to the original post the CR575, looks very similar and would likely perform well in the 103" LTD, but I have no experience with those. I don't know about the ramps or valve spring requirements
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happyman

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will just have to  pick a cam that is  more often than not a performer  where we ride and lacking noise.   heck even the 255 has more nosie than i care for.  when the temp goes up around  here it then gets worse.  going to e-bay that cam off.  not much out there on the new  S&S cams with all the moving parts..     
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waskier

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I have five TW*G builds running. Two 5's. Two 6H's. One 8. Both My Brothers' -5 bagger and his wifes' -5 bagger are both stock beehive at 145lbs (shimmed), and quiet. My Cousins' -6H bagger at 155#'s is quiet, but my choppers 113 w/-6H's @ 175# isn't. My 113 137ftlb SG w/-8's @ 160# beehives is quiet.  I am going to build my '03 95" Ultra w/5's, and another 5 build for another cousin, both with stock beehives and 06up heads.  They could be noisy, but they sure make great power and torque. Some of these builds are close to 20k miles but none with very high miles yet.
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HD Street Performance

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the 255 has more nosie than i care for

So once again, in what? with what valves? pushrods?, and on and on.

The cam does not act alone it is part of a system.
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happyman

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was a stock 07 CVO that came with that cam.    understand about the install.   and its not a cure all no matter what.. just the way it is. not real bad but i did not like other things about the cam regardless..  just not a cam i like for two up and in the hot weather  ya have a bike that will ping. but then othe 07 bike was a differant animal  with gearing too. that compounds the issues of ping.
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HD Street Performance

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2.08 and 1.62 valves with 5/16" stems, 175# springs from the factory.
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happyman

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ya  never checked them out.   i suppose the new 103 has bout the same spring pressure too.The stock cam in these 10's are real quite. doggy performace but quite  still like the way they feel compared to the 255.     part of that is the gearing too.
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