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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin' Eagle® Road King® => Topic started by: tattoo1964 on May 06, 2008, 06:50:47 PM

Title: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: tattoo1964 on May 06, 2008, 06:50:47 PM
I am looking to add the Screaming Eagle heavy breather to my 2007 SERK. Anyone know if retuning is needed? I installed a K&N filter when I first bought the bike and I know it is "high flow "already.

Looking to do this for looks not expecting unrealistic HP gains.

Thanks
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 06, 2008, 09:03:50 PM
Just put one on mine this past weekend looks great, sounds great. I asked both dealers where I live and a senior HD mechanic if re-mapping was necessary and they said no, I also have Bassani TDS. I asked a similar question on this board a while ago and everyone thinks re-mapping is a must. My bike runs great, no problems now have 600+Kms on it with pipes and breather.

T-Bird
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Hoist! on May 06, 2008, 09:07:37 PM
Just put one on mine this past weekend looks great, sounds great. I asked both dealers where I live and a senior HD mechanic if re-mapping was necessary and they said no, I also have Bassani TDS. I asked a similar question on this board a while ago and everyone thinks re-mapping is a must. My bike runs great, no problems now have 600+Kms on it with pipes and breather.

T-Bird

Yeah, it's all fun til ya put a hole in your piston. Let's see how they back ya then when your w.....ty's in the toilet and ya need a new motor! Yeah, there really is a tooth fairy and a Santa Clause! Really! Just ask snopes! ::) >:(

Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 06, 2008, 09:23:58 PM
Riding to Myrtle Beach on Friday, on the way down I'll stop at a few dealers and see what they say, I can't get a dealer around here to agree that it is necessary.
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: tattoo1964 on May 06, 2008, 09:29:47 PM
TBird thank you for your input!
Hoist! Kinda confused with your comment... Are you saying someone installed without remap and had a failure?
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: bikerboy53 on May 06, 2008, 09:31:34 PM
I'm agree with Hoist -if you make an induction and/or exhaust change you need to remap. Especially if you do both! You can take a chance on it, and it may run great -but one day you may have a melt down. Or not. You really don't know what your A/F ratio is though without having it checked!   8)

By the way Hoist when you were listing all those important characters you forgot about the Great Pumpkin.  8) I'm surprised Dood or someone didn't point out your heinous error!!  :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: bikerboy53 on May 06, 2008, 09:50:30 PM
Tattoo,
I'm running an '07 SERK with Rinehart TDs,  K&N filter, and a SERT. One of the sales guys at my local dealer is running the same setup on his '07 SERK but without the SERT. The other day we were out looking at his bike and I noticed a discolored area on the heat shield for the pipe from the front cylinder. His bike is running hot enough that it changed the color of the heat shield, and mine hasn't done that -probably because mine has been remapped. The discolored heat shield is a clue to me that his bike is running leaner than mine. Is it bad enough to hurt the motor? Only time will tell... The service manager told him that he didn't need to remap. But since the sales guy works there I'm thinking his warranty might be a little better than mine.  ???

It is possible that your (& Tbird's) bike may be OK running the way it is. But if you do melt a piston will the w.....ty fix it? You might want to check with the dealer(s) who told you that remapping wasn't necessary. If they say the warranty will hold up, then ride the heck out of it. If they waver any at all though, it's time for a download, or a SERT, or a PC, or whatever!!  8)
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: tattoo1964 on May 06, 2008, 11:14:42 PM
bikerboy53,

My concern is if the bike will run too lean after adding the heavy breather... looks like you confirmed that may be the case. I appreciate your feedback and I will have it remapped.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: 07 CVO on May 07, 2008, 01:27:40 AM
Take it get it re-mapped and dyno'd and take all the worries out of the equation.

Mark
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 07, 2008, 01:18:32 PM
Pardon my ignorance guys but if the dealer says there is no download available to re-map an 08 SERK how do we get the re-map info. Is there a download that works for an 08 SERK with these mods, if so where do we get this info? I have no problem spending the money on a SERT or PC or whatever to get this done however I don't know where to find the info to do the re-mapping, any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: bikerboy53 on May 07, 2008, 03:36:37 PM
TBird,
I don't know about downloads for the SERK. At the time I added the pipes and air cleaner the 110 was still pretty new and there weren't any downloads available. Maybe that hasn't changed. That just means it will cost you a little more...  ??? Not a big surprise if you've had your bike for awhile.  :( That means you need to get something like a SERT, a Power Commander, Vance & Hines FuelPak, or something along those lines. Then like 07 CVO (Mark) says, take it someplace (reputable) and get it dyno'd.

If there aren't any good dyno shops around then you may be able to use a "canned" map from DynoJet (makers of the Power Commander) or sometimes other guys running the same or similar setups will share a map. (Maybe even on this site? Not sure about this.) While this isn't the optimum approach it can be a workable solution.

Another approach is to tune it yourself. I think Nightrider.com sells a wide band oxygen sensor and data logger that can be used to tune your own bike -if you have some reasonably good skills and can understand and follow the directions.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Biker Boy  8)
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: 07 CVO on May 07, 2008, 03:46:51 PM
Have them start with SERT map #84, if you have the same motor as mine, SE A/C T/D's and performance exhaust it should get you in the ballpark. From this starting point they should be able to fine-tune your bike.

Mark
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Talon on May 07, 2008, 03:47:54 PM
Yeah, it's all fun til ya put a hole in your piston. Let's see how they back ya then when your w.....ty's in the toilet and ya need a new motor! Yeah, there really is a tooth fairy and a Santa Clause! Really! Just ask snopes! ::) >:(

Hoist! 8)

Especially on the newer bikes that need a retune even without any upgrades, running lean to begin with!
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 07, 2008, 05:06:38 PM
Thanks for your input, I am going to look into it, I will keep you posted on the progress. Great to have the knowledge base of this board, I can't figure out why the dealer would not steer me in this direction, I have asked them more than once about this issue.

Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Gone Fishin' on May 07, 2008, 05:25:01 PM
I am looking to add the Screaming Eagle heavy breather to my 2007 SERK. Anyone know if retuning is needed? I installed a K&N filter when I first bought the bike and I know it is "high flow "already.

Looking to do this for looks not expecting unrealistic HP gains.

Thanks

I am using the same on my 07' SERK and it was Dynojet tuned (I use a PC III as well) for optimum performance. I think you should notice a considerable difference after the tuning.

Ride safely,
Louis
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Hoist! on May 07, 2008, 05:48:57 PM
Again all, THERE ARE NO DOWNLOADS AVAILABLE FOR '07/'08's!!! You need a SERT, PCIII, or other suitable tuning device that will allow you to adjust at least both the AFR and timing. So you don't download into these bikes, you Dyno tune them with one of these devices. ;)

Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 07, 2008, 06:03:39 PM
Got it Hoist, thanks, good luck with yours Tattoo1964.
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: lilbear on May 07, 2008, 06:23:10 PM
Thanks for your input, I am going to look into it, I will keep you posted on the progress. Great to have the knowledge base of this board, I can't figure out why the dealer would not steer me in this direction, I have asked them more than once about this issue.



TBird,

Perhaps the dealership has no confidence in their tuner and possibly the dealership doesn't even have their own Dyno!  Even if they have their own Dyno and have a "trained professional" tuning the bike, few actually know how to properly tune a bike.  With the 110", it is imperative that a proper tune be performed with a SERT or PCIII keeping in mind that the SERT offers your tuner more options if he is well versed with the SERT.  Any MAP that the dealer downloads is a basic general ECM config that adds a little fuel, etc. to get the bike to run with that set of options (meaning run, not necessarily to run better).  Most general MAPs will throw enough fuel in the mix to keep it running cool enough, but I sure wouldn't begin to trust that scenario with a 110".  Find a good tuner through knowledgable recommendations and have your bike properly tuned for your setup.  Your bike will run cooler, the power will roll on smoother and give your bike the best chance at survival in a cruel world!
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Hoist! on May 07, 2008, 06:50:25 PM
Also, I don't want to imply that you have to always build a map from scratch. You can start with a canned map from your tuning device. Some only use that, and never dyno tune after. But no 2 engines are alike. So dyno tuning assures you that the tune is based on your specific engine. However, there are very few people out there capable of really using all the capabilities of the software, and have mastered these devices as well. The norm today is "good enough is fine". Well it's not fine with me. Perfect is fine with me! But only someone who's mastered the program and the process can bring it to that level. ;)

Hoist! 8)
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: tattoo1964 on May 07, 2008, 11:27:36 PM
Thanks to all who have replied..... :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: kona76 on May 08, 2008, 03:16:07 AM
 :beatdeadhorse:

I know I have said this prior to this post, but when you look in the HD Motor Accessories Catalog, it will state "Recalibration is required  for proper installation, and will allow engine to rev to 6200 RPM. See dealer for details. Labor not included".

I mean, even the MoCo says all EFI equipped models require ECM calibration. The rarely say stuff like that.

I think it is on the box as a advisory note as well.

I would not waste another moments haste, get to your local tuner and let them work the magic. Hell it's an art form, without a doubt.

Mike K.
kona76
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: grc on May 08, 2008, 08:19:39 AM

What he said.  And BTW, notice the crossed flags and the "race use only" designations.

Even though the '07 and later models with O2 sensors may be able to adjust enough to maintain the stock 14.7 AFR, that is only effective when in closed loop mode.  At more than 50% throttle or high rpm the system goes to open loop mode and reverts to the amount of fuel specified in the base map.  Those are the conditions where you could "fry" an engine with an excessively lean mixture.

Jerry
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: TBird on May 08, 2008, 04:26:30 PM
Spoke to a third dealer today in the area and he said the new SERT would fix the issue however they do not have a cable yet to do the downloads, the cable is on back-order but should be in next week, when the cable arrives I am going to bring my bike in and get it setup, thanks to all for your input, I am anxious to get this over with.

T-Bird
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: bikerbehaviorist on May 09, 2008, 11:39:45 PM
Hoist and/or others are you familiar with the Inline enrichment devices (IEDs) that Nightrider.com is selling. Folks are saying with the xtreme versions that you can run pipes and air cleaner like the heavy breather K&N big sucker etc. w/o a fuel management device. Well with the enrichers and no other device. The xtreme changes the voltage sent from the O2 sensor to the ECU so that there is a lean condition and the ECU adjusts with more fuel bring the AFR to 13.8 in closed loop. Unlike what I read above, my understanding was that open loop AFR from stock tables is rich enough as to not be a problem for these add ons and worries about lean conditions and heat. Further, open loop is not a place most of us run in all that often anyway. I am currently running the XIEDS and find that they improved my perception of performace (aka butt dyno) across the board and testing with an infared thermometer, running temps are lower. Any thoughts or opinions is much appreciated. Did I get it wrong...... Do not want to fry my bike and I am thinking about a heavy breather and rush or supertrapp pipes as my next mod....
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Air51 on May 12, 2008, 11:53:25 PM
I like the looks of the SE Heavy Breather but I also like the position of the 08 SERK's highway pegs on the crash bars and was wondering if the heavy breather would get in the way of my rightside leg on the stock 08 SERK pegs?
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: kona76 on May 14, 2008, 08:21:30 AM
I like the looks of the SE Heavy Breather but I also like the position of the 08 SERK's highway pegs on the crash bars and was wondering if the heavy breather would get in the way of my rightside leg on the stock 08 SERK pegs?

I can't even begin to think about riding with my foot position so high on the crash bar. I like to stretch out, but you have to be a contortionist to ride like they suggest. I have read posts that say the opposite. To each opinion, I must give creditability. However, it seems like a completely unusual act of riding in my opinion.

Now to try to maneuver around the Heavy Breather? Yes, of course it is in the way.

I extended my reach by temporarily adding foot pegs to the crash bar just above and ahead of the floorboard, after extending the floorboard by 3/4".

I have a heavy breather for my SERK, however I opted to switch it to my SE FatBoy instead. The Heavey Breather is bulky, but doable.

Mike K.
kona76
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: hunter on May 21, 2008, 08:41:49 AM
Mike,
I just noticed that you have the SE Stage I A/C but with your original A/C cover like I do.  My dealer told me I don't need the SE A/C cover (part# 29121-07) as recommended by Mo Co.  When I took the cover off, I saw that it is too short for the filter and actually crushing the filter and the gasket a little bit.  You might want to concider changing the cover.
I'm going to change the cover and put a new filter on mine.  I've never been a fan of squeezing 10 Lbs. crap in 5 Lbs. bag.
I'm not going to spare $35 on a bike that I spent over $35k. Just my opinion  :nixweiss:
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Rooster on May 21, 2008, 09:55:37 AM
Thanks for your input, I am going to look into it, I will keep you posted on the progress. Great to have the knowledge base of this board, I can't figure out why the dealer would not steer me in this direction, I have asked them more than once about this issue.


Remember also there are dealers out there that still claim there are no 110 problems.
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: ace07fxdl on May 28, 2008, 08:52:38 AM
I put the same question to Mike at Latus HD where I purchased a map for my 08 serk with RHTD exhaust and SE air cleaner. Can I use the new heavy breather OR the standard SE stage 1 air cleaner with this map? His response was they did not see a difference between them dyno'ing the test bike. I have the standard SE stage 1 on my bike.
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: hunter on May 28, 2008, 01:30:51 PM
Ace, did you dyno your bike already?  If I remember correctly you bought a map for super tuner, do you mind sharing your map after tuning for comparison?  I have a SERT and your map is not compatible with it but I have the same setup as you (for now, since I'm spending my next year's budget on a set of AK-20 and BITUBOS   :bananarock:).
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: manny on May 29, 2008, 01:15:19 PM
IMO the bike is running too lean from the factory, causing it to also run hot.  A little more air and fuel lets it run cooler.  I added a heavy breather to my SERK, along with pipes that decreased backpressure.  I noticed a decrease in torque until I enriched the fuel mixture with a DFO.  I got the torque back and then some.  The DFO is relatively simple and does not involve remapping.  It simply allows you to adjust the fuel injection. 
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Dirkenstien on June 28, 2008, 12:14:13 PM
Does anyone know if this item will fit the 2003 SERK? If so, what is needed?
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: donald.e on July 16, 2008, 08:15:46 AM
I have the Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather with V & H Longshot Duels, plus the Fuelpack, done 8k with no problems. That is to say with running or major over heating.
Pity the Bike has now been off the road for Two Months waiting for new Cylinder Heads following the infamous 110 oil leak problems :(
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: Chief on July 16, 2008, 09:06:29 AM
I have the Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather with V & H Longshot Duels, plus the Fuelpack, done 8k with no problems. That is to say with running or major over heating.
Pity the Bike has now been off the road for Two Months waiting for new Cylinder Heads following the infamous 110 oil leak problems :(

Very interesting that you are getting cylinder heads. How'd you pull that one off?

:indian_chief:
Title: Re: Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather
Post by: donald.e on July 16, 2008, 10:01:50 AM
Kicked up a fuss.
Produced info obtained from this site on the 110 and its fault,  my Dealer “Edinburgh HD “ pulled all the stops with HD-UK.
Apparently theses new modified heads the first in the UK, hope it solves the problem’s , but I am still looking for an extended warranty, we here in UK only get 2Years!!!