www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: Boatman on August 19, 2013, 08:55:19 AM
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New for 2014 SE Compensator-comes std on 2014's.. No price yet. Looks like it has deflector shields.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/big-twin-compensator
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I've lost track Bob. Is this compensator # 5?
Hard to tell from the pics as there is no exploded view. But if what we're seeing is all there is to that system it may be less fragile than the prior iterations. If those are solid pieces it may be harder on crankshafts too.
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It appears to have less parts. It's their 3rd or 4th attempt Don. Tired of being their test dummy. Will be on my 3rd compenstaor in 32,000 miles (original, one at 17,500 miles, and this winter for the current one).
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It appears to have less parts. It's their 3rd or 4th attempt Don. Tired of being their test dummy. Will be on my 3rd compenstaor in 32,000 miles (original, one at 17,500 miles, and this winter for the current one).
Unless the "deflector shields" redirect primary lubrication to the critical areas that fail on the current compensators, it'll be another in a series of failed designs. You have to love it - the newest compensator comes with "deflector shields", but doesn't come with the adhesive to install them. The adhesive is an additional separate purchase. WTF.... Not sure I'd want "glue in" pieces within my primary anyway.
I doubt there are fewer components making up this newest compensator. I suspect it's just how it's shown in the photos...
Fits '06-'13 Dyna®, '07-'13 Softail® (except FXCW/C, FXSTSSE3, FXSB and FXSBSE), and '07-'13 Touring and Trike models. Original Equipment on '14 Dyna®, Softail® and Touring models. Requires separate purchase of Installation Adhesive Kit P/N 11100088.[/color] '06-'11 Dyna®, '07-'11 Softail® and '07-'10 Touring and Trike requires separate purchase of Rotor Assembly P/N 30041-08. Installation on '06 Dyna® models require separate purchase of '07-style stator.[/i]
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Just watched the slide show from the "2014 model year technical forum" describing the engineering changes to the redesigned 2014 compensator. If the redesign to better distribute the lubrication functions as described, they may have finally resolved the premature wear of this assembly. The only questionable portion of the redesign is the replacement of the fiber thrust washer with a needle bearing thrust washer assembly. That and hoping the glued on lubrication deflectors stay in place.
So..if 6 members throw in $50.00 each, I'll volunteer to be the crash test dummy guinea pig and test the longevity of the piece! LOL..... :oops: :huepfenlol2: ::) :P
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Will cash be ok?
No PayPal here.
And never will be.
SBB
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Just watched the slide show from the "2014 model year technical forum" describing the engineering changes to the redesigned 2014 compensator.
Just watched that part of the tech forum also. Still can't believe they're so inane as to make the required adhesive separate from the kit. Just when a cynic thinks there might be enough going on to give them the benefit of the doubt and allow optimism they find the simplest ways to prove again that stupid is alive and well at The Motor Company.
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If HD had any integrity, they'd offer to replace all of the earlier compensators at a huge discount, or even better, for free. They knew there were problems withtheir comps. Instead, they're going to gouge us again with a part that should have been stock from the beginning. :soapbox:
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Just watched that part of the tech forum also. Still can't believe they're so inane as to make the required adhesive separate from the kit. Just when a cynic think there might be enough going on to give them the benefit of the doubt and allow optimism they find the simplest ways to prove again that stupid is alive and well at The Motor Company.
Isn't that the truth! The adhesive to attach the deflectors is required for the part to work - in fact, the oil deflectors are central to the re-design functioning. But the adhesive isn't included in the kit??? A separate additional purchase?? :nixweiss:
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Isn't that the truth! The adhesive to attach the deflectors is required for the part to work - in fact, the oil deflectors are central to the re-design functioning. But the adhesive isn't included in the kit??? A separate additional purchase?? :nixweiss:
Having things GLUED onto the inside of the primary scares the BEJESUS out of me!
Ken
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Do you have to buy the duct tape separately also? Will soon be putting my third compensator in the 11 SESG. Not sure why the SERK4 isn't eating these too. :nixweiss: Of course everything else breaks on that one.
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Having things GLUED onto the inside of the primary scares the BEJESUS out of me!
Ken
:2vrolijk_21: Maybe that's where the term "bandaid fix" comes from?
By having you be responsible for properly and thoroughly cleaning the surfaces and then bonding the parts into the correct positions, I guess they give themselves another easy out when something fails. It's not their fault, it's your fault. In the meantime they make even more money (note that the compensator "fixes" escalate in price as the years go by) letting all the customers pay to fix Harley's untested and poorly designed compensator. Hmmmmmm. Seven years from the initial introduction of the new style primary and compensator, and they still don't admit anything and just keep pushing the latest change as some sort of "performance" upgrade in the SE catalog. The chutzpah of this corporation (and lack of integrity) is beyond belief.
Jerry
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:2vrolijk_21: Maybe that's where the term "bandaid fix" comes from?
By having you be responsible for properly and thoroughly cleaning the surfaces and then bonding the parts into the correct positions, I guess they give themselves another easy out when something fails. It's not their fault, it's your fault. In the meantime they make even more money (note that the compensator "fixes" escalate in price as the years go by) letting all the customers pay to fix Harley's untested and poorly designed compensator. Hmmmmmm. Seven years from the initial introduction of the new style primary and compensator, and they still don't admit anything and just keep pushing the latest change as some sort of "performance" upgrade in the SE catalog. The chutzpah of this corporation (and lack of integrity) is beyond belief.
Jerry
TOTALLY AGREE, Jerry! This is BS...
Who is it that is supposedly designing a new compensator? I've seen it discussed but I can't recall. Maybe they will have it on the market soon...
Ken
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:2vrolijk_21: Maybe that's where the term "bandaid fix" comes from?
By having you be responsible for properly and thoroughly cleaning the surfaces and then bonding the parts into the correct positions, I guess they give themselves another easy out when something fails. It's not their fault, it's your fault. In the meantime they make even more money (note that the compensator "fixes" escalate in price as the years go by) letting all the customers pay to fix Harley's untested and poorly designed compensator. Hmmmmmm. Seven years from the initial introduction of the new style primary and compensator, and they still don't admit anything and just keep pushing the latest change as some sort of "performance" upgrade in the SE catalog. The chutzpah of this corporation (and lack of integrity) is beyond belief.
Jerry
That's the tricky part. I'm sure there are adhesives fully capable of bonding the deflector to the primary cover....assuming the surface are sufficiently cleaned and prepped for the adhesive. Hopefully the deflector is designed so it's near impossible to position and bond out of location.
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Does anyone make a replacement Compensator that works and is dependable beside Harley?
SBB
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Someone will have to give us the name of the comapny Chip, but a big aftermarket company is testing theirs and is supposed to be released in the next few months.
Anyone have a link to this "2014 model year technical forum" to see the breakdown of Harley's new compensator??
Scott/Don????
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Someone will have to give us the name of the comapny Chip, but a big aftermarket company is testing theirs and is supposed to be released in the next few months.
Anyone have a link to this "2014 model year technical forum" to see the breakdown of Harley's new compensator??
Scott/Don????
Posted earlier today in another thread...
sorry for maybe double posting but I didn't see it here: 2014_Model_Year_Technical_Forum.zip (http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php?topic=11173.0;topicseen).
Note: as the Company got so terribly innovative as of lately it's no longer a .pdf but a shockwave-application (ca. 30 MB!), so you may need the latest Shockwave Player (http://get.adobe.com/de/shockwave/) and after unpacking the .zip Datei you will have to start the "NMTF_EN.html" in "2014_Model_Year_Technical_Forum".
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Someone will have to give us the name of the company Chip,
I'll wait.
Thanks Bob!
SBB
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Someone will have to give us the name of the comapny Chip, but a big aftermarket company is testing theirs and is supposed to be released in the next few months.
This is the only compensator replacement currently in the aftermarket and available:
http://www.compensaver.com/
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This is the only compensator replacement currently in the aftermarket and available:
http://www.compensaver.com/
Thanks, an easy question with an easy answer.
:2vrolijk_21:
SBB
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BDL - Belt Drives Limited - makes a compensator that I've used for about 1000 miles on my '12 SESG. The original HD compensator was in bad shape after only 5000 miles. Before I traded the SG for an Ultra, I removed the BDL comp and put it in the new bike. It seems to work well; it's quieter than the stock unit and the magnet on the primary drain plug wasn't covered with metal shavings like it was with the POS HD compensator. I paid $140 for it, but I think it retails for around $200.
Here's the link:
http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html
I couldn't find much chatter about it on the Internet, so I don't know about durability. We'll see. So far, so good.
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Here's the link:
http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html
I couldn't find much chatter about it on the Internet, so I don't know about durability. We'll see. So far, so good.
Hadn't seen that one. Just when you think you know what's going on.... :oops:
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Hadn't seen that one. Just when you think you know what's going on.... :oops:
I have been watching this one. I think they had issue with their first design. Like he said above not much talk about it. This could be good or BAD. I may try this one????
Any other users or reviews??
:bananarock: :bananarock:
Brad
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I haven't heard of this one. Be keeping a eye on it and doing a little research. Time for another new one is rapidly approaching.
JW
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I have been watching this one. I think they had issue with their first design. Like he said above not much talk about it. This could be good or BAD. I may try this one????
Any other users or reviews??
:bananarock: :bananarock:
Brad
I've been watching this one also. As Brad said, they've had both manufacturing issues and design issues so far. I knew there were a few out there as beta testers, but I didn't know it had come to the market. I'd be careful with this version. It's would be nice to have a compensator that doesn't wear out prematurely. But don't lose sight of the purpose of the compensator - protection of the driveline. I'd rather have a compensator that wears prematurely but protects the driveline than have the opposite...
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www.darkhorsecrankworks.com in Wisconsin is working on their own but is not to market.
Pictures can be seen at Vtwinforums if you do a google search of "darkhorse compensator"..
The compensaver is probably going to be going out of business the way I see it as the MOCO won't make any more of the compensators we all have so there won't be a need for the compensavor??? A compensavor is going to do no good on our compensators that are already worn out. FWIW..
I would rather pay the aftermarket for a HD product than pay the MOCO again fopr the same item.
The old "fool me lonce/twice" line applies here.
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Compensator's, compensator's, compensator's.
Today (but maybe not tommorrow) the compensator's are fine on the 11.5 SEUC and the 12 SERGC.
Hopefully sadunbar will decide which one I need to buy when it's time, but until then,
I'm more worried about lifters.
It's amazing, with the 01 SERG and the 03 Classic I don't worry about lifters or compensator's.
SBB
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Compensator's, compensator's, compensator's.
Today (but maybe not tommorrow) the compensator's are fine on the 11.5 SEUC and the 12 SERGC.
Hopefully sadunbar will decide which one I need to buy when it's time, but until then,
I'm more worried about lifters.
It's amazing, with the 01 SERG and the 03 Classic I don't worry about lifters or compensator's.
SBB
Wise choice! :2vrolijk_21:
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Wise choice! :2vrolijk_21:
Of course, I took your advice.
But what worries me is I know lifters going bad is not the real problem.
It's what causes them to go bad that scares me.
:nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:
SBB
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I've been watching this one also. As Brad said, they've had both manufacturing issues and design issues so far. I knew there were a few out there as beta testers, but I didn't know it had come to the market. I'd be careful with this version. It's would be nice to have a compensator that doesn't wear out prematurely. But don't lose sight of the purpose of the compensator - protection of the driveline. I'd rather have a compensator that wears prematurely but protects the driveline than have the opposite...
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: From what I've been able to find concerning the design of the BDL unit, it is much closer to a solid drive gear than a true compensator. Very limited travel and I'd suspect rapid wear of the threads it travels on as well. The Harley unit is a POS in terms of reliability, but it at least provides protection for the drivetrain. I'm not so sure anyone can assume the same for the BDL offering.
Jerry
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The Compensaver (http://www.compensaver.com/) is a oil delivery system for the compensator. I recently installed on on my 2008 FLHRSE. It looks to me that it would work on the "new" compensator as well. It is a well made unit that bolts inside the primary an sure makes me feel better than glueing some plastic pieces in the primary. So far everything has been great, but i only have about 1k miles on it.
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Had one compensator replaced 2 years ago. (upgraded to SE) Now it is starting to rattle and a few noisy starts.
So I am willing to give this new compensator a try. Now to decide which lifters to use. :nixweiss:
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Had one compensator replaced 2 years ago. (upgraded to SE) Now it is starting to rattle and a few noisy starts.
So I am willing to give this new compensator a try. Now to decide which lifters to use. :nixweiss:
A lot of us are going thru the same decisions. A lot of recommendations on lifters but no definitive answer. Sad that lifters are a preventative maintenance item.
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My 08 SERK has over 66,000 miles and I'm on compensator #4. I now run the S&S124 with the 66mm throttle hog and while the motor is everything that is printed about them my primary is still the weak link. Having the 110 gave me a number of weak areas to be concerned with. I know if I start to drive aggressively the primary will require an inspection and probably compensator #5. So I'm just cooling my jets for awhile, I will open her up once I'm moving but no more jack rabbit starts. As cool as they are and fun to boot at least for me anyway, no more dropping the hammer and replacing parts on a frequent basis I would think I would need a new type of compensator and a chain drive to go back to the Hooligan days. I sure hope someone solves this issue. So much for the old statement (ride it like you stole it) what they fail to mention is once something fails ( and we all know it will) you need to go out and steal another & another etc. I'll just be a good boy for my taking off from a dead stop. But this 124 has shocked quite a few riders trying to run me down.
Ray G.
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Ray, I don't even ride like you and the compensators still go bad. Don't run under 2200 rpm's in any gear. You may as still "ride it like you stole it" and at least have some fun.
The compensator wear is also why I change my primary oil every 5,000 miles.
I am fortunate mine does not make any noises on startup or when riding but clunks when you shut it off.
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I have almost 16k miles on my 2011 SESG and am still on my original compensator. How would I know if it is going bad? My bike currently feels sluggish coming off the line but once it gains RPMs feels OK.
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I have almost 16k miles on my 2011 SESG and am still on my original compensator. How would I know if it is going bad? My bike currently feels sluggish coming off the line but once it gains RPMs feels OK.
Clunking sounds from the primary upon acceleration and de-acceleration, squeaking sounds from the primary and hard starting are typical signs of a compensator failing.
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Thanks,
Not doing that yet but I'm sure it is coming.
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Have 5000 miles on my last SE Compensator and it just starting to make that awful noise when I start it. Not all the time but maybe once every 20 or 30 times when I hit the start button. This usually happens when it is hot. Not sure if it is the starter or the compensator. I change my primary every 5000 miles as well. I would like to go through just one winter when I can park it and take it out in the spring without some major maintenance or repairs.
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Have 5000 miles on my last SE Compensator and it just starting to make that awful noise when I start it. Not all the time but maybe once every 20 or 30 times when I hit the start button. This usually happens when it is hot. Not sure if it is the starter or the compensator. I change my primary every 5000 miles as well. I would like to go through just one winter when I can park it and take it out in the spring without some major maintenance or repairs.
Very strong likelihood it's the compensator. Classic symptom. ;)
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I tend to agree with that. It's going to have to make it through the fall as I plan to wait for an improved version.
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Having things GLUED onto the inside of the primary scares the BEJESUS out of me!
Ken
I'm with you there! I've been around machinery and motors for a long time and have yet to see where any adhesive can stand up to hot oil and moving parts. I think I'll wait for the Version 6.0 model.
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I should have never read this post. I used to occasionally have the loud noise. My first post said I had the noise when starting the bike once in every 20 times. Today it was about 4 times to every 10 times when I hit the start button. I'm beyond frustrated. I think I'll buy a freaking scooter to finish the year, maybe an aftermarket one will be well tested by then. Sometimes you just reach a point when you have just had enough. If it's not tires scalloping it's compensator's. Must be operator error.
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I'm with you there! I've been around machinery and motors for a long time and have yet to see where any adhesive can stand up to hot oil and moving parts. I think I'll wait for the Version 6.0 model.
I'd give some benefit of the doubt on that. We've developed adhesives that live through orbital shots and reentry. My bigger concern would be using any adhesive on pieces that might come apart and come up the primary chain when it's up to all of us at home to recognize then do the requisite prep for the adhesive to work well long term.
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I'd give some benefit of the doubt on that. We've developed adhesives that live through orbital shots and reentry. My bigger concern would be using any adhesive on pieces that might come apart and come up the primary chain when it's up to all of us at home to recognize then do the requisite prep for the adhesive to work well long term.
:2vrolijk_21: Exactly! There are adhesives these days that will basically last as long as a good weld, so if the correct adhesive is specified that won't be the problem. The problem comes from prepping and applying the adhesive and parts outside of a strictly controlled process. Just telling someone to clean the cover, slap on some adhesive, and press the parts in place is a recipe for disaster. I'll be very interested in reading the actual instructions that come with this latest money maker for Harley. And you can bet if those deflectors come loose and jam in the primary good ol' H-D will disavow all responsibility.
Funny how the guy who invented the idea bolts his parts into the primary, but the folks who stole the idea decided to glue the parts to the cover. Was that an attempt to avoid litigation, or just the typical Harley cheapness coming through? I wonder how they will do this when it becomes the regular production version of the compensator?
This entire compensator deal is like one of those never ending soap opera's.
Jerry
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I'd give some benefit of the doubt on that. We've developed adhesives that live through orbital shots and reentry. My bigger concern would be using any adhesive on pieces that might come apart and come up the primary chain when it's up to all of us at home to recognize then do the requisite prep for the adhesive to work well long term.
:2vrolijk_21: Exactly! There are adhesives these days that will basically last as long as a good weld, so if the correct adhesive is specified that won't be the problem. The problem comes from prepping and applying the adhesive and parts outside of a strictly controlled process. Just telling someone to clean the cover, slap on some adhesive, and press the parts in place is a recipe for disaster. I'll be very interested in reading the actual instructions that come with this latest money maker for Harley. And you can bet if those deflectors come loose and jam in the primary good ol' H-D will disavow all responsibility.
Funny how the guy who invented the idea bolts his parts into the primary, but the folks who stole the idea decided to glue the parts to the cover. Was that an attempt to avoid litigation, or just the typical Harley cheapness coming through? I wonder how they will do this when it becomes the regular production version of the compensator?
This entire compensator deal is like one of those never ending soap opera's.
Jerry
The adhesive may be great, but I'm quite skeptical that the inside of the primary case could ever be cleaned well enough in the field for the stuff to reliably stick.
I'll tell ya right now that nothing is ever going to get glued on the inside of my primary case - not even if I had a dealer do it so they would be liable for any failure. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Ken
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:2vrolijk_21: Exactly! There are adhesives these days that will basically last as long as a good weld, so if the correct adhesive is specified that won't be the problem. The problem comes from prepping and applying the adhesive and parts outside of a strictly controlled process. Just telling someone to clean the cover, slap on some adhesive, and press the parts in place is a recipe for disaster. I'll be very interested in reading the actual instructions that come with this latest money maker for Harley. And you can bet if those deflectors come loose and jam in the primary good ol' H-D will disavow all responsibility.
Funny how the guy who invented the idea bolts his parts into the primary, but the folks who stole the idea decided to glue the parts to the cover. Was that an attempt to avoid litigation, or just the typical Harley cheapness coming through? I wonder how they will do this when it becomes the regular production version of the compensator?
This entire compensator deal is like one of those never ending soap opera's.
Jerry
The change the part makes are cast into the newest primary cover. For those not wanting to glue the pieces in place, the alternative is to buy a new primary cover.
I'm most interested to see how well the needle thrust bearing performs in place of the fiber thrust bearing.
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The adhesive may be great, but I'm quite skeptical that the inside of the primary case could ever be cleaned well enough in the field for the stuff to reliably stick.
I'll tell ya right now that nothing is ever going to get glued on the inside of my primary case - not even if I had a dealer do it so they would be liable for any failure. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Ken
they make the oil funnel out of their proprietary plastic for a reason. not if, but when it does come unglued it disintegrates and dissolves in the primary oil. As long as yer using the special HD branded primary lubricate for this application. :drink:
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they make the oil funnel out of their proprietary plastic for a reason. not if, but when it does come unglued it disintegrates and dissolves in the primary oil. As long as yer using the special HD branded primary lubricate for this application. :drink:
LOL! But I'm more worried about it flipping around in there and what happens when it goes into the sprockets... BEFORE it magically dissolves! :'(
Ken
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3M VHB tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePlqBfixtk
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that's some sticky tape
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I'd give some benefit of the doubt on that. We've developed adhesives that live through orbital shots and reentry. My bigger concern would be using any adhesive on pieces that might come apart and come up the primary chain when it's up to all of us at home to recognize then do the requisite prep for the adhesive to work well long term.
I agree with you mostly but H-D ain't NASA and the idiot's working in the service department at my dealership would probably use a greasy rag to wipe down the area where the adhesive is to be applied and then leave the greasy rag inside the primary. I'm not going to have a glued together compensator on my bike. I'll wait for another version or use the older version or find the answer on the aftermarket.
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I agree with you mostly but H-D ain't NASA and the idiot's working in the service department at my dealership would probably use a greasy rag to wipe down the area where the adhesive is to be applied and then leave the greasy rag inside the primary. I'm not going to have a glued together compensator on my bike. I'll wait for another version or use the older version or find the answer on the aftermarket.
The glue-on piece is only to retrofit old primary covers for use with the latest compensator. If you are willing to spend the coin, the newest primary cover will have the modification cast into them...you can buy one along with a new compensator! :( :drink: :drink:
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The glue-on piece is only to retrofit old primary covers. If you are willing to spend the coin, the newest primary cover will have the modification cast into them...
By the time you get done with that, it would be cheaper to buy that compensaver piece.
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By the time you get done with that, it would be cheaper to buy that compensaver piece.
Will the compensaver work with the new compensator ?? Or does the compensaver have to be reworked??
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Will the compensaver work with the new compensator ?? Or does the compensaver have to be reworked??
I'd be careful unless the manufactures specifically says it will work. I don't know dimensionally how the two compensators compare. If the compensaver interferes with the latest compensator due to size difference, bad things would result. I'd also want to confirm the oil dump of the compensavor is in a happy place with the new compensator. I'd suggest talking to the folks who designed the compensaver before installing it with the latest compensator. :)
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I'd be careful unless the manufactures specifically says it will work. I don't know dimensionally how the two compensators compare. If the compensaver interferes with the latest compensator due to size difference, bad things would result. I'd also want to confirm the oil dump of the compensavor is in a happy place with the new compensator. I'd suggest talking to the folks who designed the compensaver before installing it with the latest compensator. :)
I sent a PM last week to the fellow on this site asking if they were going to purchase a 2014 compensator to see if it would work Scott, but he has not replied. I'm like you, I am pretty sure it will not work with the new compensator (in it's present form).
Compensaver spent some time/money and HD has rendered it obsolete as I can't see HD to continue to make the old design.
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I have a question, suppose you already went through a few of the SE Compensator's, a couple of clutch baskets and replaced every component in the primary 5,000 miles ago and the compensator needs to be replaced right now! Most of you already know my thoughts of the MOCO and the use of OEM parts that die a quick and painful premature death. Is there a company that makes a reliable unit right now or one that may be available in the very near future that can handle the job? I would rather park it and wait rather that just throw away another $250.00 + just to get another 5,000 miles. I will try the Hayden as well. Tired of feeding the MOCO right now. We were supposed to head South for a weeks vacation next week so that will not happen unless I feed the MOCO more money for a very temporary patch. If I was pounding the bike I would just take the blame and move on, but I have been taking it easy with the new motor. I need to get a back up bike and the prices should be dropping now or real soon. Seriously looking at a Sports Touring rig, most likely a Yamaha FJR or the Kawi Connie, something with a radiator that can easily go 100,000 miles. I would like to know what Jim (AKA HD Dude) would do about the compensator issue? Not trying to be negative it's just natural for me, sorry if I offend anyone.
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Seriously looking at a Sports Touring rig, most likely a Yamaha FJR or the Kawi Connie, something with a radiator that can easily go 100,000 miles.
Concours owners are even more RABID about their scooters than Harley riders are! There's a lot to like in a Connie... including a reliable liquid cooled DOHC inline-four 1400 engine, 153 HP STONE STOCK, shaft drive, great handling, complete upper and lower fairings, hard bags, and a smooth quiet ride. They look good, too.
Oh yeah... And NO COMPENSATOR!
Ken
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I couldn't have said it better Ken!
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I notice clunky noises when I shut my motor off. I have 6800 miles on a 2012 Softail Convertible. Could a bad compensator cause this noise? I don`t notice any unusual noises on startup or while riding.
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Hell the adhesive is bad enough but the 07-10 touring and trikes require a new rotor assembly for $105.00
SteveM
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Hell the adhesive is bad enough but the 07-10 touring and trikes require a new rotor assembly for $105.00
SteveM
When first saw the pictures of the new comp kit realized that was going to be needed too. Hadn't noticed it on the printed specs but the part itself makes it clear. The 06 (stand alone year for the rotor) is flat on its face. So is the rotor used on the 2011 and newer bikes. But the years from 07-10 have a rotor with a bigger piece of the compensator that is part of the rotor itself. Can't use that with the new comp kit.
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My 08 FLHTCUSE3 lost its original compensator at 30,000 miles; lost it's 2nd compensator at 76,000 miles. Am now at 92,000 miles and all is quiet BUT, every primary change (5,000 miles) yields a lot of iron on the magnetic drain plug (always has - far different than my '96 Heritage Softail). The last compensator had a revised design (p/n 40296-06A).
One thing I did when my previous comp was failing is as soon as I turned the ignition ON, I quickly hit the starter and held it in until I was SURE the engine fired off. This seemed to minimize the kickbacks I was getting when the comp was failing. So I continued the practice with the current comp. So far, okay. ALSO, it has been reported that on engine shutdown, some hear loud clunking noise. That IS the sound of a failing comp. I heard it on my last failing comp. I do not have that sound at present, but the iron coming out says there is high wear occuring in the primary, and I'm sure it's the comp.
I have a Kawasaki with a 125 cube motor, dynoed at 136 ft-lb torque, and it has a comp in the driveline. Never had an issue in 73,000 miles so far. So, what gives Harley??
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the harley is a 45 deg twin and the kaw is a balanced 4
the 45 twin is very uneven, especially at very low rpm
if you think about it, one of the most reliable hd engines is the 45 - the current engine each cylinder is larger than the entire engine. ???
........
to
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Timo:
WRONG, my Kaw is NOT a V-4;my Kaw is the Vulcan VN2000, a balanced V-twin, 125 cube motor (2053cc), single pin crank, water-cooled heads, air-cooled cylinders. Check it out: http://www.mbike.com/kawasaki/vn2000/2006
I have the shop manual and it does have a compensator in its primary drive.
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Well I bought one for %20 off thru Kutter Harley with free delivery and unpacked it this morning to do the install and low and behold there is an installation kit part # 11100088 that is available to dealers only! (you think the guy woulda told me that when I ordered it) At least that what it says in the install directions. The kit contains the adhesive used to glue the plasic part onto the primary cover. Soooo I guess I'll call Kutter back and see if he will sell it to me if not I'm thinking about installing the previous style one I installed 12000 mi ago. He offerd me one of those at $180 delivered. I plan on purchasing a 2015 Harley so it will hopefully last me till next August. I thought about buying a new primary but I don't feel like spending another $300 bucks just for something that I only need for a year
__________________
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Well I bought one for %20 off thru Kutter Harley with free delivery and unpacked it this morning to do the install and low and behold there is an installation kit part # 11100088 that is available to dealers only! (you think the guy woulda told me that when I ordered it) At least that what it says in the install directions. The kit contains the adhesive used to glue the plasic part onto the primary cover. Soooo I guess I'll call Kutter back and see if he will sell it to me if not I'm thinking about installing the previous style one I installed 12000 mi ago. He offerd me one of those at $180 delivered. I plan on purchasing a 2015 Harley so it will hopefully last me till next August. I thought about buying a new primary but I don't feel like spending another $300 bucks just for something that I only need for a year
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The "installation kit" part number you list above is the part number that shows on the Harley website as being for the adhesive kit. There is now an official bit of confusion and/or contradiction.
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It says its a dealer only part but anyone can buy it as I now know. $33 bucks from Kutter here
http://www.kutterharleyonline.com/harley/11100088
Wish I knew what kind of adhesive it was. The more I think about gluing a plastic part in my primary the more I'm thinking about just getting a 2014 primary and just ebaying my original one. After looking on ebay looks like a hundred bucks for a great condition one would sell pretty quickly and I'll have peace of mind. I'm confident to wrench on my bike but just a little leery about just that part.
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It says its a dealer only part but anyone can buy it as I now know. $33 bucks from Kutter here
http://www.kutterharleyonline.com/harley/11100088
Wish I knew what kind of adhesive it was. The more I think about gluing a plastic part in my primary the more I'm thinking about just getting a 2014 primary and just ebaying my original one. After looking on ebay looks like a hundred bucks for a great condition one would sell pretty quickly and I'll have peace of mind. I'm confident to wrench on my bike but just a little leery about just that part.
That's what I will do when I need this new comp. Can't believe they want $33 for that little glue kit...
I repeat... NOTHING will EVER get GLUED inside of Honey Badger's primary!
Ken
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That's what I will do when I need this new comp. Can't believe they want $33 for that little glue kit...
I repeat... NOTHING will EVER get GLUED inside of Honey Badger's primary!
Ken
Agreed...When I open it up to check on my comp since I think I am hearing the noise, if I replace with the new style it will also get a new outer primary cover.
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That's a $350 primary cover.....
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That's a $350 primary cover.....
True, Don. But on Honey Badger - for better or worse - that's a rounding error. In for a penny, in for a POUND... :'(
Ken
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That's a $350 primary cover.....
True but at %20 off your down to $280 and if you sell the old one for a hundred it still sucks but makes it a little easier to take for peace of mind
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True but at %20 off your down to $280 and if you sell the old one for a hundred it still sucks but makes it a little easier to take for peace of mind
YEP! That's the way I look at it. And for a net $200 I'll do that in a heartbeat. It's a LOT better option than having pieces of plastic glued inside the primary...
Ken
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True, Don. But on Honey Badger - for better or worse - that's a rounding error. In for a penny, in for a POUND... :'(
Ken
Know that feeling....
I keep a spreadsheet on all the bikes with every part changed, added, upgraded or otherwise altered. Keep it for the part numbers so my own maintenance is later made easier. Don't have rediscover later what was done when I always have part numbers.
There's also an MSRP column in each of those sheets should the unfortunate ever occur and something is needed for insurance. That particular column is only visible on first data entry though. After that I just don't want to know. ???
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YEP! That's the way I look at it. And for a net $200 I'll do that in a heartbeat. It's a LOT better option than having pieces of plastic glued inside the primary...
Ken
That was my thinking exactly!
Anybody have the part number for that new cover?
Mike
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Know that feeling....
I keep a spreadsheet on all the bikes with every part changed, added, upgraded or otherwise altered. Keep it for the part numbers so my own maintenance is later made easier. Don't have rediscover later what was done when I always have part numbers.
There's also an MSRP column in each of those sheets should the unfortunate ever occur and something is needed for insurance. That particular column is only visible on first data entry though. After that I just don't want to know. ???
Don, I did that on Bertha, my old '95 FLHTP. Looking at that spreadsheet got me to the point of depression.
I knew better than to do that with Honey Badger. Looking at IT would probably make me suicidal! :knife:
Ken
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Know that feeling....
I keep a spreadsheet on all the bikes with every part changed, added, upgraded or otherwise altered. Keep it for the part numbers so my own maintenance is later made easier. Don't have rediscover later what was done when I always have part numbers.
There's also an MSRP column in each of those sheets should the unfortunate ever occur and something is needed for insurance. That particular column is only visible on first data entry though. After that I just don't want to know. ???
I've got a spreadsheet from day one on my :pumpkin:... it includes MSRP and actual cost (try to purchase P&A when on sale or from discounted dealers). Guess I'm just a little more anal than the average OCD'er. :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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That was my thinking exactly!
Anybody have the part number for that new cover?
Mike
Here is the part # 60553-07A
I'm going to call tomorrow to verify but it says its for 2014 and is a revised #..Old one didnt have the A
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Well lots of great info here.
I am hearing a lot of noise from mine as well especially as I come up to about 3000 rpm rattles pretty good. If someone could do some math here that would be great.
Price for..
New Comp 2014
Clue kit
cover price,,,,am I missing something...
If I gotta spill some coin I want to do it right.
bUB
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It's $33 bucks from here if you choose to go this route
http://www.kutterharleyonline.com/harley/11100088
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Has anyone as of yet completed an install of this new kit? I am curious about the needed rotor.
I am under the understanding that a rotor (30041-08) from a previous SE compensator install will eliminate the need to purchase a new rotor too. However the instructions in the kit calls for a rotor 30041-08A? This must be different or else Harley would not have given it the "A" suffix.
I wonder what the difference between the two are? I hope there is not a difference in the machined flat surface area on the outside face of the rotor as that would affect the stack-up height and change the designed preload on the spring sets.
The SE catalog only calls for a rotor 30041-08 and not a 30041-08A as the instructions do. :oops:
Any thoughts?
JPB :nixweiss:
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I have no idea of the "A" designation.
If you already have a older version of the SE compensator, you do not have to buy a new rotor. All parts of the 2014 compensator are different except for tthe rotor and the clutch washer pack.
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Thanks!
Still curious about the A revision though.
When you say clutch washer pack are you refering to the spring pack? It is included in the new 42200064 kit and also has an "A" suffex added which is different than the previous SE compensator kits.
Strange. I wonder if these springs have a different pressure rating or load curve.
JPB
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Thanks!
Still curious about the A revision though.
When you say clutch washer pack are you refering to the spring pack? It is included in the new 42200064 kit and also has an "A" suffex added which is different than the previous SE compensator kits.
Strange. I wonder if these springs have a different pressure rating or load curve.
JPB
The re-designed SE Comp still uses the same rotor and spring pack. All other parts are new
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Going to do this change up on my 09 eglide
Up here in Canada it will cost 500 bucks 2014 comp kit, adhesive and new rotor.
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I have a 2011 kryptonite sesg with gloss black motor so my 2014 part number is Gloss Black Primary Cover-60886-11A. It is only $239 list so any of us with black motors would be crazy to mess with glue. I have over 16k miles so far without any compensator problems yet but now I know I can upgrade without messing with adhesive kit when I'm ready.
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Is anyone 100% sure the new cover is a new cast or are they just glued parts added to the cover? :nixweiss:
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I bought mine from Hales Harley and the guy opend the box to look at it before shipping and told me it is cast in there as part of the primary.....No plastic
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I bought mine from Hales Harley and the guy opend the box to look at it before shipping and told me it is cast in there as part of the primary.....No plastic
I would love to see a picture of it, if you could after you receive it. :2vrolijk_21:
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No prob. I haven't received it yet. Will post when I get it or email to someone to post it for me
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Anyone have a parts breakdown picture of the screaming eagle compensator 40274-08A? Like to see it compared to 2014 model. Thanks.
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Anyone have a parts breakdown picture of the screaming eagle compensator 40274-08A? Like to see it compared to 2014 model. Thanks.
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thanks very much for the breakdown.
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I attached a comparison picture of the new and old SE comp
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Super. Thanks. I received my adhesive kit to glue in the new oil passage plastic cut inside of primary. No instructions. Anyone have them? Looks like I need a caulking gun but not sure if that is all I need. Anyone know? I am going to gamble with the glue if I can figure out how to use the cylinder.
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Super. Thanks. I received my adhesive kit to glue in the new oil passage plastic cut inside of primary. No instructions. Anyone have them? Looks like I need a caulking gun but not sure if that is all I need. Anyone know? I am going to gamble with the glue if I can figure out how to use the cylinder.
I posted this here with the install instructions. It has instruction on glueing the funnel in my second posting >> http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=88164.0
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I would love to see a picture of it, if you could after you receive it. :2vrolijk_21:
Primary cam in the mail today I took some pictures. If someone wants to post the pictures for me please PM me your email and I'll send them to you
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Here are the Pics reg26 sent me to post. Thank you for sending them. Looks interesting. Still need to glue in the plastic pieces?
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/springer_03/photo1_zpse13cb1d9.jpg?t=1378552564)
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#2
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/springer_03/photo2_zpsa8a00dd6.jpg?t=1378552553)
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#3
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/springer_03/photo3_zps9d7ad4cd.jpg?t=1378552559)
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#4
Here are pics of the new primary. They have already changed the part # for these. If you try and look this up on Harley site it's not there
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/springer_03/photo4_zpsd082c0b4.jpg?t=1378552567)
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They have already changed the part # for these. If you try and look this up on Harley site it's not there
Don't confuse casting or tooling numbers on parts like that with the actual part number. Part number for the primary is 60553-07A.
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Don't confuse casting or tooling numbers on parts like that with the actual part number. Part number for the primary is 60553-07A.
Hmmm.... Then what's that 60685-07A cast in there mean?
And also, from these pics, it looks as if the only thing cast in are positioning ribs for that piece of plastic! Is anyone SURE that nothing has to be glued into the new "A" primary revision? :nixweiss:
The only reason I would buy it is to eliminate that piece of plastic!
Ken
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I had originally looked up the part # 60685-07A on Kutters HD's site and this came up but the guy couldnt confirm that it was the right one so I purchased it from Hales HD. When I went back and looked up the part at cutters the part # had already changed to 60553-07A. It was amazing how fast everything changed. Even on HD's main site it was there and then gone/changed in the same day
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Hmmm.... Then what's that 60685-07A cast in there mean?
And also, from these pics, it looks as if the only thing cast in are positioning ribs for that piece of plastic! Is anyone SURE that nothing has to be glued into the new "A" primary revision? :nixweiss:
The only reason I would buy it is to eliminate that piece of plastic!
Ken
I'm with ya on that one!!
Mike
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Hmmm.... Then what's that 60685-07A cast in there mean?
And also, from these pics, it looks as if the only thing cast in are positioning ribs for that piece of plastic! Is anyone SURE that nothing has to be glued into the new "A" primary revision? :nixweiss:
The only reason I would buy it is to eliminate that piece of plastic!
Ken
My thought was just the opposite Ken. That in the "chicken or the egg" part of the question the primary cover came first then it was used as a mold for the plastic piece which is then used to retrofit the older covers. Just a guess but that was my impression.
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My thought was just the opposite Ken. That in the "chicken or the egg" part of the question the primary cover came first then it was used as a mold for the plastic piece which is then used to retrofit the older covers. Just a guess but that was my impression.
Well, it looks to me that the primary in these pics is the OLD primary - not the new one with the cast-in oil guides for the new compensator, that does not need that piece of plastic glued into it.
I would like to see a pic of the new primary. He someone gets one soon and will post a pic of how the oil guide looks that is cast into it.
Ken
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That plastic piece will not fit in that space. I was just holding it there so as to show that its the same size and height as the casting. If you have the new primary you definitely DO NOT need anything else. Plastic wouldn't fit even if you tried. I placed that plastic in my OLD primary and it fit perfectly
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Those pictures he posted were of my NEW primary.
Here are pics of the stok 2009 primary I took off. You can see that the new casting is not there
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Another better shot sorry, new at this
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Now that I look back over the picture with you holding the plastic piece, I can now see the casting lip in the new cover.
Thanks, Looks like the new cover is the way to go.... I am going to wait for a while to hear how this new comp is holding up before I dive in and replace everything.
Thanks again for the pictures. :2vrolijk_21:
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That plastic piece will not fit in that space. I was just holding it there so as to show that its the same size and height as the casting. If you have the new primary you definitely DO NOT need anything else. Plastic wouldn't fit even if you tried. I placed that plastic in my OLD primary and it fit perfectly
AHHHHH... Light bulb finally came on! Thanks very much for clearing up my misunderstanding. When it's time to replace my comp... hopefully not for awhile... I will definitely get the new primary.
Ken
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I just glued the plastic part inside my Primary. I don't see any issues with it staying. The way Harley presented the Glue really sucks it should have contained the Applicator for the caulking gun, I used 2 1/4 inch sockets like GMR did. You could probably glue 6 pieces with the same glue kits.(Kit came with 4 applicator tips.
:bananarock: :bananarock:
Brad
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As a side note to any of those folks that have not yet purchased their T70 Torx 1/2 drive bit yet. Here is a good deal from NAPA Auto Parts. :apple:
Part number 61-5470. It is only $4.77 and its heavy duty impact rated too. :2vrolijk_21:
And before anyone jumps in, yes I already know not to use an impact gun on this.
Later!
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Thought you weren't supposed to use impact gun on the comp assembly :nixweiss:
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Hi Rooster,
Haven't spoke to you in a long time sime my stuck Baisley exhaust valves! :huepfenlol2:
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Thought you weren't supposed to use impact gun on the comp assembly :nixweiss:
You can impact it loose but not to tighten.
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The install went very well. No kickback on start-up and it ran very smooth. I'm so far glad I changed to the new style. The old one was rusty and had worn a indentation on the ramp. The new one should lubticate itself alot better.
:bananarock: :bananarock:
Brad
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The install went very well. No kickback on start-up and it ran very smooth. I'm so far glad I changed to the new style. The old one was rusty and had worn a indentation on the ramp. The new one should lubticate itself alot better.
:bananarock: :bananarock:
Brad
Well, THAT'S good news! :2vrolijk_21:
Ken
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BDL - Belt Drives Limited - makes a compensator that I've used for about 1000 miles on my '12 SESG. The original HD compensator was in bad shape after only 5000 miles. Before I traded the SG for an Ultra, I removed the BDL comp and put it in the new bike. It seems to work well; it's quieter than the stock unit and the magnet on the primary drain plug wasn't covered with metal shavings like it was with the POS HD compensator. I paid $140 for it, but I think it retails for around $200.
Here's the link:
http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html
I couldn't find much chatter about it on the Internet, so I don't know about durability. We'll see. So far, so good.
A good friend of mine put a BDL with a manual adjuster on his Skunk a few months ago and he told me today that it's going south on him at around 16k (on the comp), he's pissed. He told me that it was noisier at installation than the SE comps that he has been replacing 2x / yr on his last three bikes. (he averages well over 30k / yr) The comp on my '09 is starting to show some symptoms at 16.5k as we are presently doing some sport touring on the west coast, I don't know if I'll have it replaced out here or wait till I get back to FLA. I would hate to have to make a trip interruption claim while in San Francisco watching the Americas Cup later this week.. Wonder if ESP will put in the '14 style SE comp???
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Brad, sent you a PM on the install.
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Hi Rooster,
Haven't spoke to you in a long time sime my stuck Baisley exhaust valves! :huepfenlol2:
[/quote
And hello to you. Hope all is well with your ride these days.
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Rooster, Ride is good and thinking of doing this compensator thing. I will send you a PM.
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With the new compensator you get two oilers. One for one type of cover and one for another. After my glue job on my primary cover, I took the unused oil cup and glued it to a pc of aluminum. After 24 hours drying time, I could not knock it off with a hammer. So much for the worry about glue.
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Good idea on testing the glue.
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:'(
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With the new compensator you get two oilers. One for one type of cover and one for another. After my glue job on my primary cover, I took the unused oil cup and glued it to a pc of aluminum. After 24 hours drying time, I could not knock it off with a hammer. So much for the worry about glue.
Given the glue they're using I'm not concerned about it either. However.... the test here doesn't simulate life inside a fluid bathed and heat soaked compensator. I know of a couple of adhesives off the top of my head that would hold nigh on forever in the nonchallenging environment of my shop work bench but that would fail in relatively short order if they stayed oil soaked.
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I may soak my sample glued on part in oil and heat it up with a torch and see what happens when hammered. Wonder if it will still hold tight?
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I may soak my sample glued on part in oil and heat it up with a torch and see what happens when hammered. Wonder if it will still hold tight?
Definitely use the torch to see what happens. But since you're after absolute verification you'll want to do the test on the part installed in the primary so you're sure your environmentals are accurate :2vrolijk_21: :huepfenlol2: .
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Can't create same environment but I will be soaking the parts in oil for two weeks while I am out of town. When I return I am going to do the torch thing to the aluminum piece that holds the glued on plastic unit. If the plastic unit will not break loose after the heat treatment, I will consider it safe for me. Nothing will touch the plastic unit inside the primary but hot flying oil so if I can't pound it loose I am satisfied. We shall see.
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Can't create same environment but I will be soaking the parts in oil for two weeks while I am out of town. When I return I am going to do the torch thing to the aluminum piece that holds the glued on plastic unit. If the plastic unit will not break loose after the heat treatment, I will consider it safe for me. Nothing will touch the plastic unit inside the primary but hot flying oil so if I can't pound it loose I am satisfied. We shall see.
Again, as mentioned previously, and speaking to the adhesive that's used; there's little doubt that if properly applied the product will do the job. It's a very good product.
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Well, mine is installed already by yours truly. I have ridden about 300 miles and am happy with no noise and able to chug at low RPM all that I want without irritating rattling noise. However, at age 74, I will do the heat and oil tests just to entertain myself.
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I did one more test overnight just for the fun of it. I drilled a hole in the side of the plastic oiler cup which is glued onto a pc of 1/4" aluminum stock. I put asembly in my vice and using paino cable, strung approximately 50 lbs of weight from the hole in the plastic oiler glued to the aluminum stock. Not only did the glue hold up but not even the hole in the oiler tray gave way. Just thought I would pass this along.
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As I mentioned in my original post on the subject, I have no doubts about the capabilities of the actual adhesive. The issue will be in the preparation of the surfaces and the adherence to the process instructions for mixing and applying the adhesive. For every person who actually follows all the instructions to the nth degree, there will be several who do it the same way they apply things like wheel weights: wipe the rim with a halfway clean shop rag, peel the backing off the wheel weight, and place it on the rim. Two days later do it all over again when the weight flies off. That's the scenario that plays in my mind when thinking about this compensator deal. I've worked decades in the auto industry with people who applied adhesive secured parts, and I've observed and reinstructed a large number of them when I found them to be taking shortcuts and not following the process. It tends to be human nature, especially in our culture, to always think you know more than the folks who designed the process and wrote the instructions. Next time you have a nameplate, decal, tape stripe, or wheel weight come loose you can most likely thank one of those folks who thought they knew more than the engineers.
Jerry
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You are correct. May I suggest that when squeezing out the glue, squeeze out about an inch or so and throw it away prior to application. Also, after cleansing the surface of the cover, go over it again several times with alcohol until you are getting no black on the cloth. Let it dry at least 1/2 hour before applying glue. This is what worked for me.
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This is an afterthought but for those who are skeptical about the glue, why not drill one small hole in the primary and install one button head through the primary and plastic tray after glue dries? Extra insurance and button head is hardly noticeable. $3.00 button head sure beats beats $350 for new cover.
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I purchased a rotor when I did not need it as my ride already had the SE (A) version which came with the proper rotor. Too late to return. I have it listed in the for sale section if anyone needs. Thanks.
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Hi Guys, If you go on the Lord website (they manufacture the glue) they say to push the glue out with a gun until both glue and hardener are both present, then put the mixing adapter on and away you go, I did that, cleaned my primary case in my parts washer then cleaned the area with alcohol wipes let it dry and then proceeded to apply the glue and fix the oil catcher in place with a clamp, then set about replacing the old comp with the new one (buy the way did not need to remove the clutch basket), took it step by step, all in all about 1 1/2 hours by then the glue had set so completed the install without primary oil, left it a couple of hours just to be safe then filled primary with oil, gave it 6/7 starts just to check for anything out of the ordinary, nothing found then left till next day, by now glue fully cured, have done about 100 miles everything seems fine, much better starting with the new comp ( I also have the baker high torque inner primary bearing and Hayden BT-07 chain tensioner ), so lets see how it goes, fingers crossed.
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Your chain must be looser than mine. I had to remove clutch basket and remove as a unit.
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BDL - Belt Drives Limited - makes a compensator that I've used for about 1000 miles on my '12 SESG. The original HD compensator was in bad shape after only 5000 miles. Before I traded the SG for an Ultra, I removed the BDL comp and put it in the new bike. It seems to work well; it's quieter than the stock unit and the magnet on the primary drain plug wasn't covered with metal shavings like it was with the POS HD compensator. I paid $140 for it, but I think it retails for around $200.
Here's the link:
http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html
I couldn't find much chatter about it on the Internet, so I don't know about durability. We'll see. So far, so good.
Any update on how this BDL unit is performing???
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So what's the bottom line for my 2009 Fltrse3?
#42200064 or #40274-08A?
And what about rotor issue?
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My 08A lasted only about 3,000 miles before sounding like a jack hammer again. Installed the 2014 version and have had no problems in about 4,000 miles. Against all advice, I did run a small bolt and nut through the glued on part and primary cover. Can hardly notice since nut is hidden behind shifter arm, but I know that it is not going anywhere. If interested, send me a PM and I can take you step by step.