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Author Topic: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?  (Read 24833 times)

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North Georgia Hawg

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 03:56:10 PM »

I agree completely.  I think taking to time to explain the risks and rewards to anything allows everyone to go into the situation with eyes wide open.  My closest HD dealer (Zepka) tunes with Mastertune as their preferred tuning system, so I don't think it is as big of an issue to some dealers as some would lead people to believe.  I actually have another local dealer that doesn't offer any tuning at all, so they are probably clueless either way...but that's really where its up to the consumer not to be clueless.

And that's really my point... Anyone who spends the money for things like tuning devices, a custom tune, etc. really SHOULD educate themselves on what they are getting, and the ramifications thereof. Unlike autos, about which most consumers are, for better or worse, pretty ignorant about the product... Harley owners are well-advised to take some time and go to the effort of learning what devices like the TTS really do - even if its only the basics like the fact that it locks the ECM from having any changes made to the cal, and that the TTS device itself is married to that particular ECM. Not to the bike...  but to that particular ECM unit.

If I were selling the TTS, I would include a sheet listing this stuff, so the buyer would have no excuse to NOT know it. And yeah I know... They might not actually read it, much less understand the ramifications. But even though you can't MAKE the camel drink... you need to at least make the water available to it!

Ken
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North Georgia Hawg

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 04:04:37 PM »

I traded my Ultra Limited just 6 weeks ago.  I included the TTS, along with the cables, in the tourpack.  Since I also removed the air cleaner and aftermarket exhaust, I offered to re-flash the ECM back to stock.....the Dealer refused.  Never even occurred to me to keep the TTS as I cannot imagine what use it would be, other than a very poor paper weight.

Yeah, it's WAY too light for that!

But seriously, if you sell a bike knowing its been tuned with a TTS, you do your buyer a HUGE DISSERVICE by not including the TTS unit in the sale.

The cables are a different matter tho... they can buy the cables cheaply, and you can use the cables with a new TTS on your next bike. They don't need the cables unless/until they retune the bike anyway... and if they have the bike pro tuned by someone who tunes using the TTS, they shouldn't need the cables at all because the tuner can use their own cables.

Ken
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SteveFLHTK

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 04:05:42 PM »

I sent the cables with it because I knew I was getting a new blue unit, and the cables were not compatible.
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mayor

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 04:12:25 PM »

If I were selling the TTS, I would include a sheet listing this stuff, so the buyer would have no excuse to NOT know it. And yeah I know... They might not actually read it, much less understand the ramifications. But even though you can't MAKE the camel drink... you need to at least make the water available to it! 
I agree, hrdtail and I discussed this at length a little while back.  In addition to verbally covering this at the point of sale, I know that he also supplies a instruction/warning document along with the stock mte on a thumb drive to any tune he does with the TTS.  About the only thing I think would be even more of a precautionary step would be apply some sort of label on the ecm or data port, but that might be just be me being a little to OCD. 

I disagree with the TTS VCI only being good for a poor paperweight once the bike it's locked to is no longer around.  You can still use the VCI to record Datamaster data (knock retard events, clear codes, etc.) even on bikes it's not locked too.  I wouldn't advocate keeping one that's been locked to a bike, but I think they still have value even if you can't tune with them anymore.  I have used my personal VCI's to review data from PV tuned bikes, because I like the TTS software better than DJ PV when it comes to reviewing data. 
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North Georgia Hawg

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 04:30:47 PM »

I agree, hrdtail and I discussed this at length a little while back.  In addition to verbally covering this at the point of sale, I know that he also supplies a instruction/warning document along with the stock mte on a thumb drive to any tune he does with the TTS.  About the only thing I think would be even more of a precautionary step would be apply some sort of label on the ecm or data port, but that might be just be me being a little to OCD. 

I disagree with the TTS VCI only being good for a poor paperweight once the bike it's locked to is no longer around.  You can still use the VCI to record Datamaster data (knock retard events, clear codes, etc.) even on bikes it's not locked too.  I wouldn't advocate keeping one that's been locked to a bike, but I think they still have value even if you can't tune with them anymore.  I have used my personal VCI's to review data from PV tuned bikes, because I like the TTS software better than DJ PV when it comes to reviewing data. 

I don't think you're being too OC at all... It's the responsible thing to do for the customer, I think.

Heck, the last time I bought a cup of Starbucks, the cup had a warning that said it is served EXTREMELY HOT! Well, NO CHIT, Sherlock! I guess that's fallout from that woman who sued McDonalds after she spilled a cup in her crotch! If you TELL the customer something - such as "CAUTION! This saw blade is REALLY FRIGGIN' SHARP!" - then if they cut their finger off with it, it ain't your fault.

And yeah, for people like you pros who tune lots of bikes, the TTS can be used to gather data and do everything else on any bike - except actually flash in a new cal other than to the ECM it's married to. I didn't really want to mention that because its not relevant to most of us Great Unwashed, but you brought it up...  ;D

Ken
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hrdtail78

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2013, 04:46:51 PM »

Since the HD06 does save the MTE.  I have quit giving flash drives out.  I do still email them with their final cal and dyno sheet.  The "disclaimer" is stilled used also.

Doesn't matter what I am tuning or with what.  I always use Datamaster for spark tune data.  14 frames a second on 1850.
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North Georgia Hawg

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2013, 05:09:16 PM »

Since the HD06 does save the MTE.  I have quit giving flash drives out.  I do still email them with their final cal and dyno sheet.  The "disclaimer" is stilled used also.

Doesn't matter what I am tuning or with what.  I always use Datamaster for spark tune data.  14 frames a second on 1850.

+1

Mr. Wizard taught me to also ALWAYS do a cam tune run first, to at least get the IVO setting correct before VTuning. When we retuned the Honey Badger last week, he did a spark tune run, and we backed the IVO setting from 4 down to 3 because there was a very slight uptick that just wasn't there the last time. Bike seems to run better with an IVO setting of 3 now...

Ken
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 02:23:00 PM by North Georgia Hawg »
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Hilly13

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2013, 07:48:45 PM »

This is just an idea, how about a nice TTS Blue interface plug cap that would go on the bike to replace the stock black one, have TTS Tuned and Locked in raised lettering as a visual warning to any that go there, might stop an over eager tech from miss diagnosis, maybe not either but it sure would look nice :)
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turboprop

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2013, 09:15:20 PM »

I had the opportunity to use a beta version of TTS that had the Flight Recorder function enabled. Worked very well.
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timo482

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2013, 11:56:28 PM »

Ill bet the liability the dealer was afraid of is EPA tampering liability. If the dongle is on the bike it's obvious.   I really feel for folks buying used efi bikes. Two bikes ago I got a used efi bike, had all kinds of wired issues, turned out it was flashed for 203cams but had stock cams in it

A sticker on the ECM, tuned by x software, not stock. Would do the trick, would also probably lower value as I have found that a bike has highest resale bone stock, mods are often deducts, not adds

Kindest bet for a trade in is flash to stock, throw the dongle and tune in the map pocket and let the new buyer use the tuner of his choice.

To
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Buckeye_Tuning

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 01:15:28 PM »

Forum of Darkness is really GREAT!  I'm going to use that from now on!

I am starting to think of stickers, too.  Even looked at Vistaprint to make me think more about this.  I have ALWAYS given my tuner, with the bike, whenever I traded one in. 

When I finally get around to turning my personal bike back to Lambda (by installing the original 2010 ECM...  I am using an 09 ECM because back in the day... there were no Lambda tunes for a 120r), I am going to buy a blue TTS for that bike for sure. 

We, here, tend to be on the side of knowledge, etc.  but one has to also remember the guys that go to shops with money... not time, nor energy, to DIY anything.  If us members can help educate our fellow members...  PLEASE TURN IN YOUR TUNER WITH THE BIKE...  we can help countless folks down the road.  CHEAP new bikes are $20k anymore.  Give UP that $500 tuner to the next guy.  That will help the next guy... AND the next dude who works on the bike.

It is simply beyond me why someone would allow a bike, with a tuner married to it, down the road to a new owner withOUT that bike's tuner.  Even a PC3!!!  If a bike has mods... and it took some kind, any kind of tune to make it run better....  PLEASE give that tuner up.

The benefit of that is simple.  Kharma won't bite you, and....  you will be forced to buy a new tuner with the new bike.  That is NOT a bad thing... and this discussion points this out readily...  new versions of all tuners seem to be way better tuners.  There is now a TTS2 that is light years away, functionally, from the old TTS.  SEPST has altered their business model to mimic TTS and PV... no more disks to buy.  I have even heard of some calling new PVs a PV2?

Oh...  cables are always available for TTS2 at a Harley dealer.  Good enough quality, too.  Just buy a cable set for a SEPST.  $40
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:36:27 PM by Buckeye_Tuning »
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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2013, 06:06:13 AM »

Update: I went over to the dealership and asked about contacting the guy that bought my V-Rod, so I can give him some spare parts off the bike (I didn't want to say the TTS).  They told me that they could not give me his phone number/info but they would gladly call him and give him my phone #.  Not an issue for me.  Well the dealership called me later and said that the owner did not need the parts as the bike was wrecked and totaled.  What a bummer... :o

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North Georgia Hawg

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2013, 06:26:58 AM »

Update: I went over to the dealership and asked about contacting the guy that bought my V-Rod, so I can give him some spare parts off the bike (I didn't want to say the TTS).  They told me that they could not give me his phone number/info but they would gladly call him and give him my phone #.  Not an issue for me.  Well the dealership called me later and said that the owner did not need the parts as the bike was wrecked and totaled.  What a bummer... :o



Well, that's a shame. Hope no one was injured in the wreck.

Ken
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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2013, 08:20:00 AM »

Not trying to be a smart-butt but..

That really doesn't pass the sniff test. More like someone doesn't want to call the guy for you.

Do you trust that wrecked information?
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charles05663

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Re: TTS Mastertune I (black) vs. TTS Mastertune II (blue) differences?
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2013, 07:33:25 PM »

Update: I went over to the dealership and asked about contacting the guy that bought my V-Rod, so I can give him some spare parts off the bike (I didn't want to say the TTS).  They told me that they could not give me his phone number/info but they would gladly call him and give him my phone #.  Not an issue for me.  Well the dealership called me later and said that the owner did not need the parts as the bike was wrecked and totaled.  What a bummer... :o

Maybe the don't want you to give him the original parts so the can sell him some or they are worried that you might talk about the price of the bike.

 :oops: :nixweiss:
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