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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Trapperdog on July 31, 2010, 09:02:09 PM

Title: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on July 31, 2010, 09:02:09 PM
Don (Iselbulls) and I were talking to an old friend of mine that I used to race with who owns a couple of HD dealerships here in northern Ca.. He says that HD will begin offering 120" crate motors for under $6K soon. I  did ask him why they would sell a 120" for less than a 110" but he really didn't have an answer. Either HD is trying to spread their own vicious rumors or there is truth in this.   :nixweiss: We shall soon see.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FNGw/08SERK on July 31, 2010, 09:05:02 PM
Don (Iselbulls) and I were talking to an old friend of mine that I used to race with who owns a couple of HD dealerships here in northern Ca.. He says that HD will begin offering 120" crate motors for under $6K soon. I  did ask him why they would sell a 120" for less than a 110" but he really didn't have an answer. Either HD is trying to spread their own vicious rumors or there is truth in this.   :nixweiss: We shall soon see.
I also heard no more re-man work in house Rog - it's said Jims is doing it now!!
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hdbrad03 on July 31, 2010, 09:29:59 PM
I also heard no more re-man work in house Rog - it's said Jims is doing it now!!

Boy that is Great! Now we have to worry about the Lifters going bad on top of the poor quality rebuild!


 :bananarock: :bananarock:
      Brad
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on July 31, 2010, 11:04:22 PM
I also heard no more re-man work in house Rog - it's said Jim's is doing it now!!
Maybe it's a trade off and the 120" will be a Jim's motor. I'm sure Jim's re-man will still have to adhere to HD's specs so if your runout is .011, you're still within tolerance and no new crank or truing.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Rooster on August 01, 2010, 12:51:50 AM
You might have to wait awhile ;D
Title: 2011 120ci motor
Post by: Lucky88 on August 01, 2010, 01:22:03 PM
At the dealer show a new '120' ci crate motor is available. I heard was around $5400 or lets say under $6k. Has anyone looked into this or perhaps may want to upgrade? :bananarock:
Title: Re: 2011 120ci motor
Post by: hogasm on August 01, 2010, 02:24:15 PM
At the dealer show a new '120' ci crate motor is available. I heard was around $5400 or lets say under $6k. Has anyone looked into this or perhaps may want to upgrade? :bananarock:

Now lets see after we make the changes needed to make it a reliable motor.....crank, cams, bearings, heads cleaned up.....6K more :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: 2011 120ci motor
Post by: Twolanerider on August 01, 2010, 03:39:04 PM
At the dealer show a new '120' ci crate motor is available. I heard was around $5400 or lets say under $6k. Has anyone looked into this or perhaps may want to upgrade? :bananarock:


Is it a Jim's motor or an HD product?  Actually guess it doesn't matter.  With the problems both have been having it's a distinction without a difference.
Title: Re: 2011 120ci motor
Post by: grc on August 01, 2010, 04:03:42 PM

Is it a Jim's motor or an HD product?  Actually guess it doesn't matter.  With the problems both have been having it's a distinction without a difference.

I agree.  From what I've read here and elsewhere, Jim's obviously graduated from the H-D School of Customer Disservice summa cum laude.  And the quality of some of their parts makes one believe they also went to the H-D School of Disfunctional Engineering and Quality Control.

I guess the obvious question now is, does the crate come with the motor?  That could be a serious issue, because it's possible you'll need to ship the engine back at some point and I understand from one of our members that they had a real problem getting Jim's to send the crate so his dealer could ship his POS engine back for warranty evaluation and repair.  Sounds like another great idea for controlling warranty costs.  Can't fix it until you ship it back, but you can't ship it back without our crate, and we can't seem to figure out how to send one to you.

It sure would be nice if S&S or one of the other aftermarket companies would put out a nice TC based complete engine that would bolt in.


Jerry
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: AXIL on August 01, 2010, 04:41:29 PM
   In a word - junk!!!!   :furious3: :furious3:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 01, 2010, 04:46:16 PM
It's listed in the 2011 SE Catalog on the website.  SE120R, built along side the other HD standards sizes.  It's $4400 + shipping from Chicago HD........  My credit card has nearly jumped out of my wallet a couple times just typing this.....

(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeo1xmz/120.jpg)
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 01, 2010, 05:05:57 PM
   In a word - junk!!!!   :furious3: :furious3:


And how did you reach that conclusion?

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

SBB




Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: AXIL on August 01, 2010, 07:09:34 PM
  How do you think i came to that conclusion
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 02, 2010, 10:50:34 PM
  How do you think i came to that conclusion

I'm on the edge of my chair.  How?
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: bigmegina on August 02, 2010, 10:58:55 PM
i am going to guess by his reply is that he bought 1 and it was junk.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 02, 2010, 11:04:11 PM
That seemed to be the implication, but I guess I'd like to know a little more about why he said it's junk.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hard10 on August 02, 2010, 11:14:50 PM
I wonder if I encounter any more problems with my 110" that is still under warranty, they would be willing to replace it with the 120"? ???
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: ultrafxr on August 03, 2010, 05:29:39 AM
I wonder if I encounter any more problems with my 110" that is still under warranty, they would be willing to replace it with the 120"? ???
For $5,400.   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hogasm on August 03, 2010, 07:15:40 AM
i am going to guess by his reply is that he bought 1 and it was junk.

Axil works on them [harleys]  every day
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 03, 2010, 07:53:48 AM
Thanks Hogasm you beat me toooo it. Axil has run into a quite a few problems with the JIMS 120 motors. A couple of them he actually sent me pics of, because I had my doubts. If I had my chance to do a motor change I would do a complete rebuild of my HD cases with S&S and Axtel parts. I would never install a crank assy without having it welded in these heavy bikes. As far as the newer HD cylinders we all know what the story is there. At least HD may have gotten a grip on the cam chain tensioner, cam plate and oil pump!

It seems that all of these big company's are interested in the BOTTOM DOLLAR ONLY!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 03, 2010, 08:45:25 AM
Axil has run into a quite a few problems with the JIMS 120 motors. A couple of them he actually sent me pics of, because I had my doubts.

Be Safe

THE DAWG


Which goes back to my original question,

Quote
And how did you reach that conclusion?

     

Seemed a simple enough question.
What is wrong with a 120 that causes you to consider them junk?
Inquiring minds want to know.

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

SBB

Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 03, 2010, 10:41:45 PM

Which goes back to my original question,

Seemed a simple enough question.
What is wrong with a 120 that causes you to consider them junk?
Inquiring minds want to know.

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

SBB



Yup!  What he said.    :coolblue:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 08:14:02 AM
I would guess he calls them junk because of the problems he has run into while working on them. The motor is no better than your 110 motors, and warranty takes forever. To keep warranty you must inspect and or change your lifters every 5k. The crank assy is just like the one in your motors now. The only thing you are getting is a larger displacement. If you go back and read all of the problems with the CVO motors that will answer your question. If you really want a 120 inch motor call the guys over in Elkridge Maryland. They do build a good one from the ground up!!!!

Like I said in my above post I would rebuild your motor from the ground up using your factory cases using S&S and Axtel parts. And if you think that the 120 motor is a bargin go ahead and buy one. But when you have a problem with it, you have been warned!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 04, 2010, 08:46:00 AM
I would guess he calls them junk because of the problems he has run into while working on them. The motor is no better than your 110 motors, and warranty takes forever. To keep warranty you must inspect and or change your lifters every 5k. The crank assy is just like the one in your motors now. The only thing you are getting is a larger displacement. If you go back and read all of the problems with the CVO motors that will answer your question. If you really want a 120 inch motor call the guys over in Elkridge Maryland. They do build a good one from the ground up!!!!

Like I said in my above post I would rebuild your motor from the ground up using your factory cases using S&S and Axtel parts. And if you think that the 120 motor is a bargin go ahead and buy one. But when you have a problem with it, you have been warned!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG


So Dawg is this like,   :nixweiss: , your the official Axil spokes person or what?
That's cool but you also didn't answer the question asked of him.

Quote
To keep warranty you must inspect and or change your lifters every 5k.

Jim's is a viable option for many members here, are you saying that Jim's requires lifters to be inspected or changed every 5K?
Is that in their sales brochure or warranty information?
People that plan to spend 5, 6, 7K dollars or more want facts about an item they are investing in.

Quote
But when you have a problem with it, you have been warned!!!!!

Facts man, that's why the original question was asked.
Facts will help everyone here to learn.
Drama may increase post count but unless facts are told, drama means nothing.

Quote
The motor is no better than your 110 motors

Yes I have had issues from my 09 110 but after 39K miles in 20 months I bet I have spent less on my 110 motor than you have on your 103.
Inquiring minds want to know.

SBB
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 04, 2010, 09:00:29 AM
The fact is nobody has seen this engine yet, it was just released, when I called Chicago HD they said they had none in yet and weren't sure when they would start shipping.  But everyone is comparing this to a Jim's and it's not a Jim's.  From the description.

Hand assembled alongside Harley-Davidson’s production
Twin Cam engines at the Pilgrim Road Engine Plant in
Milwaukee, these race-use engines feature only the finest
Screamin’ Eagle components:


Now while that may not scream reliability, it does make it known that this is not a Jim's engine.

Folks who work on them see the problems with them, why, because nobody brings them a bike thats running great and they want it fixed.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 04, 2010, 09:11:53 AM
The fact is nobody has seen this engine yet, it was just released, when I called Chicago HD they said they had none in yet and weren't sure when they would start shipping.  But everyone is comparing this to a Jim's and it's not a Jim's.  From the description.

Hand assembled alongside Harley-Davidson’s production
Twin Cam engines at the Pilgrim Road Engine Plant in
Milwaukee, these race-use engines feature only the finest
Screamin’ Eagle components:


Now while that may not scream reliability, it does make it known that this is not a Jim's engine.

Folks who work on them see the problems with them, why, because nobody brings them a bike thats running great and they want it fixed.

A new 120" motor from Harley.

Quote
Hand assembled alongside Harley-Davidson’s production
Twin Cam engines at the Pilgrim Road Engine Plant in
Milwaukee,

Should be interesting to see if it's NEW or if the assembly location has been changed for the old 120.

SBB
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 04, 2010, 10:08:07 AM
A new 120" motor from Harley.

Should be interesting to see if it's NEW or if the assembly location has been changed for the old 120.

SBB


The Jims 120 is still listed in the 2011 SE Catalog (doesn't anybody look at these things) and the specs between the Jims 120 and the SE120R (listed seperate from the Jims) are completely different.  What I see is folks calling this engine junk based on previous history with HD engines, which is a good basis to start from, but damn, give it a chance to fail before claiming you know everything about it (not you SBB).
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Rooster on August 04, 2010, 10:10:49 AM
Maybe the Moco is hoping to use this new motor later if enough people buy (new test pilots) before they actually put it in one of thier bikes and create 07 over again. I am NOT going to be a test pilot this time. ;D
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: partycrasher on August 04, 2010, 12:02:47 PM
doesn't look like they have welded the crank on these120 motors.....and they report pretty big power numbers.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 02:30:08 PM

So Dawg is this like,   :nixweiss: , your the official Axil spokes person or what?
That's cool but you also didn't answer the question asked of him.

Jim's is a viable option for many members here, are you saying that Jim's requires lifters to be inspected or changed every 5K?
Is that in their sales brochure or warranty information?
People that plan to spend 5, 6, 7K dollars or more want facts about an item they are investing in.

Facts man, that's why the original question was asked.
Facts will help everyone here to learn.
Drama may increase post count but unless facts are told, drama means nothing.

Yes I have had issues from my 09 110 but after 39K miles in 20 months I bet I have spent less on my 110 motor than you have on your 103.Inquiring minds want to know.

SBB

You must have paid for an extended warranty. If that is the case you have spent more than I have.

The facts are what they are. Go talk to some people that have a Jims 120. Axil does not live on here, so you may want to wait for him and IF YOU THINK THE JIMS MOTOR IS A VIABLE OPTION YOU HAVE HAD ME FOOLED FOR A FEW YEARS!!!!lol.

Be Safe

THE DAWG



Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 02:36:10 PM
The fact is nobody has seen this engine yet, it was just released, when I called Chicago HD they said they had none in yet and weren't sure when they would start shipping.  But everyone is comparing this to a Jim's and it's not a Jim's.  From the description.

Hand assembled alongside Harley-Davidson’s production
Twin Cam engines at the Pilgrim Road Engine Plant in
Milwaukee, these race-use engines feature only the finest
Screamin’ Eagle components:


Now while that may not scream reliability, it does make it known that this is not a Jim's engine.

Folks who work on them see the problems with them, why, because nobody brings them a bike thats running great and they want it fixed.

This may be a newer version of the Jim's 120, if not it has been in production for a few years and sold at the dealerships!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 04, 2010, 02:40:09 PM
Not related to the Jims
4.060 X 4.625
Stock cases, no Timken, SE Jims crank, 10.5/1 pistons, specially ported 110 head castings, SE266 cam.
$5,700 plus you add the right TB and accessories to make it run.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: ultraswede on August 04, 2010, 03:09:14 PM
Is it so hard to realize that the 120r is a Harley engine, not a Jim's?
 :soapbox:
Some facts,

The Jim's 120 has;
Bore x Stroke  4.125" x 4.500"
Jim's own cyl stud spacing, and therefore their own cyl heads and cylinders.
Has Jim's their own crank case??

The 120r Harley engine has;
Bore x Stroke 4.060" x 4.625"
Standard crankcase and stud spacing.

If the 120r is reliable or not remains to be seen.

But to dismiss the 120r just because a different manufacturer has (had)
some problems with an engine of the same swept volume is plain wrong.

edit,
Sorry  for repeating the facts Deweysheads, you beat me to it.
And the 120r comes with 10,5-1 pistons according to the SE catalogue.



Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 03:23:01 PM
ULTRASWEDE the problems with the Jim's 120 motors of the past were LIFTERS and CRANK ASSY!!!!! If you do not have a pinned and welded crank in these heavy bikes, you are looking for trouble. Not to mention no timken bearing.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 04, 2010, 03:29:48 PM
You must have paid for an extended warranty. If that is the case you have spent more than I have.

The facts are what they are. Go talk to some people that have a Jims 120. Axil does not live on here, so you may want to wait for him and IF YOU THINK THE JIMS MOTOR IS A VIABLE OPTION YOU HAVE HAD ME FOOLED FOR A FEW YEARS!!!!lol.

Be Safe

THE DAWG


Quote
You must have paid for an extended warranty. If that is the case you have spent more than I have.

Fact, No extended warranty Since that IS the case I have spent less on my 110 w/39K miles than you have on your 103 based on your comments above.
Imagine that?

Quote
The facts are what they are.

They may be what they are but where are they in this thread? I have yet to see any concerning issues with the 120 be it the old 120 or the new one.

Quote
Axil does not live on here,

True, so true but you have his cell and you and him are buddies so we are still wondering why he would say,

Quote
 In a word - junk!!!!




And thanks Don and ultraswede for clearing up the old VS the new 120 concerns.!

SBB





Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 04, 2010, 03:33:55 PM
ULTRASWEDE the problems with the Jim's 120 motors of the past were LIFTERS and CRANK ASSY!!!!! If you do not have a pinned and welded crank in these heavy bikes, you are looking for trouble. Not to mention no timken bearing.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thank Dawg for explaining the above.
Did you have those issues with your Jim's 120?
I put 9K miles on mine and it produced 140/141.
My experience with the one I owned was a good one.
The frame sucked but the motor was a beast!

SBB
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Fired00d on August 04, 2010, 03:51:24 PM
If there is anyone else like myself that was wondering the specs on this motor see attachment.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 04:49:55 PM
Damn Chip I forgot you had a 120 motor in the bike that mysteriously disappeared. But if I remember correctly you went into that motor for the need to try to be the fastest on the board. You are right though, that rolling chassis would not let you!!! So I would think if you were producing that kind of HP that motor had a welded crank and a timken bearing assembly in the lower end. If not you would have not got to the 9k mark. That is two of the differences between the Jim's of old and now. If I was going to go with a 120 inch motor I would have Zippers build it for me!!!!!!

As far as my 103 motor goes I have put very little money into that motor.  Since I am not into everybody's business I really don't know what has been done to your 110 or how much you have spent on that motor, and really don't care!!!! If anyone on here is thinking about a Jim's 120, I think they are smart enough to look into the construction and parts that are used in these motors. Oh and check on the warranty procedure After that I think they can make their own intelligent decision on rather to buy or not!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 04:52:56 PM
If there is anyone else like myself that was wondering the specs on this motor see attachment. :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

Thanks DOOD!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 04, 2010, 05:24:19 PM
ULTRASWEDE the problems with the Jim's 120 motors of the past were LIFTERS and CRANK ASSY!!!!! If you do not have a pinned and welded crank in these heavy bikes, you are looking for trouble. Not to mention no timken bearing.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

You Betcha!
Lifters are stock I suppose not Jims
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hard10 on August 04, 2010, 08:18:04 PM
This may be a newer version of the Jim's 120, if not it has been in production for a few years and sold at the dealerships!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Mike, not sure why you're getting your panties in a wad over this. Clearly the 120R is a new engine.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 04, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
ULTRASWEDE the problems with the Jim's 120 motors of the past were LIFTERS and CRANK ASSY!!!!! If you do not have a pinned and welded crank in these heavy bikes, you are looking for trouble. Not to mention no timken bearing.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Response #10 shows the engine cross-section with labels.  SE-266 cam with Timken Bearings
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 04, 2010, 08:36:32 PM
My guess is that we are going to see 120" engines in Screamin' Eagles to come, maybe by next year...after a few of these are out there and they see what kind of problems they really have with them...with the guinea pigs that buy them.  We're seeing the displacement moving upward on the other models, and once they put 120's in the SE's, then we'll see standard models sporting the 110's.  It doesn't seem like any different pattern than what they've been doing over the years...bigger engines.  80", 88", 95", 96", 103", 110"...why not 120" in the SE's.  This is more like the build they should have had already.  But then these are listed as race only and they'll have to find a way to keep them street legal to equip a factory bike with them.  Just a guess, or maybe just some sheer optimism.

The specs sure don't look like the Jim's at all.  I'll be very curious about the reliability on these 120's and very tempted also.  I do think it's one of those upgrades that would make more sense directly at the time of purchase, if the same deal holds true with it being covered with the regular factory and extended warranties, like doing an engine build with the SE kits at time of purchase.  It wouldn't be a big pricing deal if you have a brand new 110" to sell to someone once you are done.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: sadunbar on August 04, 2010, 08:39:37 PM
My guess is that we are going to see 120" engines in Screamin' Eagles to come, maybe by next year...after a few of these are out there and they see what kind of problems they really have with them...with the guinea pigs that buy them.  We're seeing the displacement moving upward on the other models, and once they put 120's in the SE's, then we'll see standard models sporting the 110's.  It doesn't seem like any different pattern than what they've been doing over the years...bigger engines.  80", 88", 95", 96", 103", 110"...why not 120" in the SE's.  This is more like the build they should have had already.  But then these are listed as race only  and they'll have to find a way to keep them street legal to equip a factory bike with them.  Just a guess, or maybe just some sheer optimism.

The specs sure don't look like the Jim's at all.  I'll be very curious about the reliability on these 120's and very tempted also.  I do think it's one of those upgrades that would make more sense directly at the time of purchase, if the same deal holds true with it being covered with the regular factory and extended warranties, like doing an engine build with the SE kits at time of purchase.  It wouldn't be a big pricing deal if you have a brand new 110" to sell to someone once you are done.

:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:  Where exactly do you race a 120" Twin Cam motor?   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 04, 2010, 08:52:33 PM
:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:  Where exactly do you race a 120" Twin Cam motor?   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

The same place I race my 110"....up and down every road I'm on.  I may not be racing anyone else or breaking any records, but it sure is a helluva lotta fun!  I'm all up for a little extra oomf.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 04, 2010, 09:04:48 PM
Response #10 shows the engine cross-section with labels.  SE-266 cam with Timken Bearings

Timken is a brand of bearing like SKF along with being known as a tapered "type" of bearing that is typically called a Timken Bearing.  The bearings for the cams are Timken "brand" bearings, the one he is refering to is a Timken tapered "type" bearing for the crankshaft on the clutch side, pressed onto the crank with a race in the case.  It stops movement in the crank that the stock roller bearing allows.  If given the specs for it you could also buy a Timken "type" bearing from SKF or probably 13 different places in China.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 04, 2010, 09:09:14 PM
If there is anyone else like myself that was wondering the specs on this motor see attachment.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

Good thinking Dood!!  I figured everyone on this site had looked at the 2011 SE Catalog by now.....guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 04, 2010, 09:12:05 PM
Response #10 shows the engine cross-section with labels.  SE-266 cam with Timken Bearings

Negative Ghost Rider. That is not even close to a tapered timken. The tapered timken bearing assembly is superior to HD's Lefty high performance crankcase bearing assembly!!!!! It is still a faster and cheaper way to assemble these motors. That is why Harley does it that way NOW!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: AXIL on August 04, 2010, 09:12:47 PM
  wow! chip, my respose to you was with humor, I have no problem with Jim's only products but i do have a problem Jim's/se products. the issue is with the se crank that is not
welded or pinned.      
 the next time you want to whip up a large bunch of drama , leave me out of it. see ya'll Saturday  axial
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 04, 2010, 10:10:30 PM
 wow! chip, my respose to you was with humor, I have no problem with Jim's only products but i do have a problem Jim's/se products. the issue is with the se crank that is not
welded or pinned.      
 the next time you want to whip up a large bunch of drama , leave me out of it. see ya'll Saturday  axial

Quote
wow! chip, my respose to you was with humor,


Oh really? I'm sorry, I'll fix that, hold on.
 :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
How was that?   ;)

Quote
the issue is with the se crank that is not
welded or pinned.       

Thanks for answering the original question, that was all I and many others wanted to know.
Cool!

Quote
the next time you want to whip up a large bunch of drama , leave me out of it.

Drama? In a thread about the new 120 from Harley you posted,

Quote
In a word - junk!!!! 

When many of us including me spent our hard earned money on a motor you call "junk", now there's drama.

But ultimately all of us have learned that,

1) The new 120" motor from Harley is not the same as the 120" motor from Jim's.
2) You think the crank in the Jim's 120 should be welded or pinned.

***********************************************************************

This has been a very informative thread.
And I have decided that if this construction gig doesn't work out I may try dentistry.

 ;)

SBB





Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 1abastarsmda on August 04, 2010, 10:29:48 PM
Timken is a brand of bearing like SKF along with being known as a tapered "type" of bearing that is typically called a Timken Bearing.  The bearings for the cams are Timken "brand" bearings, the one he is refering to is a Timken tapered "type" bearing for the crankshaft on the clutch side, pressed onto the crank with a race in the case.  It stops movement in the crank that the stock roller bearing allows.  If given the specs for it you could also buy a Timken "type" bearing from SKF or probably 13 different places in China.

Sorry, my bad.  I guess I wasn't paying attention and didn't even notice the mention of the lefty crankcase bearing.  At any rate, I'm glad we're finally finding out where the big problems with the Jim's engines lie, and that the tradition carries on with the new 120".  The sad fact is that there are always built-in problems with about every Harley, yet we are all living proof that it hasn't stopped any of us from buying these problems waiting to happen.  We are a sad bunch, aren't we?
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on August 05, 2010, 12:23:41 AM
Just what's so unique about the "• Unique piston oilers for stroker clearances."?
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: ultraswede on August 05, 2010, 02:02:47 AM
Quote
Just what's so unique about the "• Unique piston oilers for stroker clearances."?

The piston oiler nozzles are closer to the crank center line, to clear the piston at BDC.
The longer the stoke, the further down the piston will be at BDC.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 05, 2010, 08:14:21 AM
Actually this was a good thread. I would still do a complete rebuild of my stock motor and build it bullet proof with a builder you know and trust. We all know the problems with these motors and most of us know what needs to done to correct the problems from the factory.

We buy these bikes because they are the flagship bikes of the Motor Compnay. Yet when we get them we find a lot of problems with them. It's a shame that you would spend 35k for a bike then do another 10k in upgrades.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: FR8TRN on August 05, 2010, 08:44:12 AM
Actually this was a good thread. I would still do a complete rebuild of my stock motor and build it bullet proof with a builder you know and trust. We all know the problems with these motors and most of us know what needs to done to correct the problems from the factory.
We buy these bikes because they are the flagship bikes of the Motor Compnay. Yet when we get them we find a lot of problems with them. It's a shame that you would spend 35k for a bike then do another 10k in upgrades.
Be Safe
THE DAWG

Agreed.  I find it strange that for the "kit" they offer to 120" (page 21) in the 2011 SE Catalog (below) that it can't be used on cases previously bored for a 110".  Wonder why that is.  Also, it recommends purchase of a set of cases already bored for the kit (page 22).  The pricing for the kit/cases is about the same as the built engine, but in the kit situation you'd be able to take it in and have the crank welded and the bearing put in before assembly, the rest of the parts I could deal with and the kits comes with the TB, the built engine doesn't.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Racing/screamin_eagle_parts.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US

Take some of that back, it doesn't come with the cam support plate or the oil pump and covers....
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 05, 2010, 08:57:03 AM
Agreed.  I find it strange that for the "kit" they offer to 120" (page 21) in the 2011 SE Catalog (below) that it can't be used on cases previously bored for a 110".  Wonder why that is.  Also, it recommends purchase of a set of cases already bored for the kit (page 22).  The pricing for the kit/cases is about the same as the built engine, but in the kit situation you'd be able to take it in and have the crank welded and the bearing put in before assembly, the rest of the parts I could deal with and the kits comes with the TB, the built engine doesn't.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Racing/screamin_eagle_parts.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US

Take some of that back, it doesn't come with the cam support plate or the oil pump and covers....


Like I said I would build my cases from the ground up, with an S&S crank assembly. from there I am not sure it would matter. I do have HD cylinders and pistons in my motor but they were bought years ago before the major problems surfaced. I would love to know where some of these engine components and manufactured???

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on August 05, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
The piston oiler nozzles are closer to the crank center line, to clear the piston at BDC.
The longer the stoke, the further down the piston will be at BDC.
But that should be true in any stroker shouldn't it? , just wondered what made them "unique"?
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Rooster on August 05, 2010, 10:28:27 AM
Hey Rog, it's just the way they Sell it, kind of like Charmin Tp is best because it doesn't leave pieces stuck on the bears butt. :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on August 05, 2010, 10:59:13 AM
Hey Rog, it's just the way they Sell it, kind of like Charmin Tp is best because it doesn't leave pieces stuck on the bears butt. :huepfenlol2:
You've been living out in the forest way too long Terry  ;D :P  :o
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: DCFIREMANN on August 05, 2010, 11:21:12 AM
Hey Rog, it's just the way they Sell it, kind of like Charmin Tp is best because it doesn't leave pieces stuck on the bears butt. :huepfenlol2:

YEA WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on August 05, 2010, 11:44:17 AM
YEA WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Sometimes I confuse "unique" with "new and improved"  :nixweiss:  :confused5:  ;D
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: mrmagloo on August 05, 2010, 11:48:26 AM
Won't fit into a 2006 SEUC?     :(
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: sadunbar on August 05, 2010, 01:15:43 PM
Won't fit into a 2006 SEUC?     :(

I believe it only fits to a 2007 and up....  :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: doubledown on August 05, 2010, 08:49:02 PM
Do they give hp/tq numbers for the HD120" ?
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: AXIL on August 05, 2010, 09:04:34 PM
   here we go , chip you have a problem things i post.  I don't have a problem with things you post. is this going to continue ? or can we toast and put itbehind us.                        axil
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: sadunbar on August 05, 2010, 09:06:41 PM
Do they give hp/tq numbers for the HD120" ?

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52315.0;attach=161723

see the link...
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 05, 2010, 09:28:19 PM
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52315.0;attach=161723

see the link...


Thanks Scott!

      :2vrolijk_21:

SBB
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: sadunbar on August 05, 2010, 09:38:05 PM

Thanks Scott!

      :2vrolijk_21:

SBB

Naaa....  Not me...I plagiarized d00d's earlier post!   :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: grc on August 05, 2010, 09:49:36 PM

Looks like they've lowered prices on the other crate engines.  For instance, from the latest catalog:

SE103    $4995   (does not include intake system and primary components)  For '06 and earlier.

SE110    $5195   (does not include intake system and primary components)  For '07 and later.

SE120R   $5495

I remember looking up the price for a 110 last year and it was over $6k.


Jerry
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Rooster on August 05, 2010, 10:28:26 PM
You've been living out in the forest way too long Terry  ;D :P  :o
Yea maybe as I started walking down my drive I looked up and there was a black bear about 30 feet in front of me walking up towards me. Well he ran first and I watch to many commercials since I can't ride much yet. :huepfenlol2:
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Trapperdog on August 05, 2010, 10:36:47 PM
Yea maybe as I started walking down my drive I looked up and there was a black bear about 30 feet in front of me walking up towards me. Well he ran first and I watch to many commercials since I can't ride much yet. :huepfenlol2:
Sounds like maybe it was you that needed the t p.  ;D
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: Rooster on August 05, 2010, 10:56:05 PM
Would have if he had run toward me :'( Anyway back to topic. sorry guys.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 06, 2010, 10:49:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Dmz-hwBak&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hogasm on August 09, 2010, 07:56:55 AM
   here we go , chip you have a problem things i post.  I don't have a problem with things you post. is this going to continue ? or can we toast and put itbehind us.                        axil

Doesn't look like thats going to  happen axil
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: 16HD117 on August 09, 2010, 08:23:22 AM
   here we go , chip you have a problem things i post.  I don't have a problem with things you post. is this going to continue ? or can we toast and put itbehind us.                        axil

Don't take it personally!  He treats everyone me the same way.
 ;)
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: skreminegul07 on August 09, 2010, 09:44:14 AM
Just a couple of comments.  This was very informative.  My first thought is why doesn't a SE bike come with SE parts or an SE engine like this?  The first shock I had with my 2007 SERK (actually the first shock was the lack of gold flame graphic continuing under the seat and no floating rotor on rear) was that there was basically no SE performance parts in the 110 motor.
Also, this motor and I believe Jims as well, are limited to Henry Fords favorite color....black.  I would assume that would be a show stopper for most here.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 09, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
Not exactly true but the SE parts are flawed as recognized by HD with their product improvement program (heads) and the rest are OEM 96" parts that in some cases carry issues.
The 120R would be a stock motor and meet EPA with lowered compression and a specially designed cam. Would that then be a 120EPA? Why wouldn't the MOCO do this and just raise the price marginally or offer it as an option?
Remember when we could choose options especially engines with cars?
Those were the days!
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: hogasm on August 09, 2010, 01:05:42 PM
Not exactly true but the SE parts are flawed as recognized by HD with their product improvement program (heads) and the rest are OEM 96" parts that in some cases carry issues.
The 120R would be a stock motor and meet EPA with lowered compression and a specially designed cam. Would that then be a 120EPA? Why wouldn't the MOCO do this and just raise the price marginally or offer it as an option?
Remember when we could choose options especially engines with cars?
Those were the days!

Harley just laid off....excuse me....restructured the York plant by 1100 jobs with the thought that the children of those 1100 could possibly have a job at York in their lifetime if the restructuring goes as planed. No chit. Now some of  those 1100 have to train their replacements. Sounds like HP with their layoffs in California...having sent many of those laid off to India to train their replacements. Bottom line it sucks.

Do you or anyone believe that the MOCO would bring back those jobs so that an assembly line could be constructed so special order bikes could be constructed. The cost to assemble that line compared to the monies brought in for special ordered bikes would never be justified. Appeasing the stockholders has become the norm of the American way these days...not pleasing the consumers.

Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: III on August 09, 2010, 08:24:04 PM
If someone was to slip a 120r into a bagger what would be the cam choice? You know a torque/cruising cam, not high HP.  ::)
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 09, 2010, 10:56:21 PM
SE259 assuming the dealer is involved and playing the warranty deal.
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: AXIL on August 10, 2010, 08:37:05 PM
   thank you dewey.   axil
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: SBB on August 10, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
Not exactly true but the SE parts are flawed as recognized by HD with their product improvement program (heads) and the rest are OEM 96" parts that in some cases carry issues.
The 120R would be a stock motor and meet EPA with lowered compression and a specially designed cam. Would that then be a 120EPA? Why wouldn't the MOCO do this and just raise the price marginally or offer it as an option?
Remember when we could choose options especially engines with cars?
Those were the days!


Don

I was looking at the specs on the 120R and it calls for a SE-266E cam stock.
How does that compare to the SE-259 as a torque/cruising cam?
No bottom end or what?

 :nixweiss:
SBB
Title: Re: HD 120"crate motor
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 11, 2010, 08:46:46 AM
These are new cams and I truthfully don't have a lot of experience with them. I chose the 259 for a bagger because it is very close in timing to the 251 which I do have a lot of experience with. The 251 is a wide torque band high reving profile in a 95 but either of these cams in a 120 with 10.5 would be a torquer, even with the big ports and valves. On paper the 266 looks like it would be right at home in a softail or dyna. In a late model bagger with high gearing I would prefer a little less gear shifting, of course not suggesting to lug. That's just me. If the bike was not doing touring duty and was used 1up a lot then maybe the 266 would be fine. We will have to wait and see. I am thinking when these hit the streets there will not be so many WOWs as their is in the advertising stage. Those MVA heads are just no windfall over the production pieces. The Hurricane heads are race stuff as are the .700 lift cams.