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Author Topic: S&S crate 124 engine dyno  (Read 56880 times)

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hrdtail78

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2013, 07:56:57 PM »

What kind of down low tq are you thinking you want?  I have no comparisons but I am a fan of the 662-2's.
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Hog95023

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2014, 08:02:30 PM »

The bike ran very well.  Update got soome messages on what was in the engine.

We replaced the stock triple valve springs with a set of bee hive springs, cleaned up the heads, and a .030 head gasket. T/B is the 66 MM and the S&S backing plate kit with larger filter. Tuner was a TTS , clutch was a bandit. 6.2 injectors.
I'm leaning toward touching up my heads and raising the compression. 11.2 seems to work good here in your sheet. Would 11.4 or 11.5 be pushing the envelope too much? I wish I had the flywheels welded now.  :-*

I'm referencing the sheet you posted on page 2, reply #29. I'm using a zillia and 5.3 inj, but could switch to 6.2 easy enough.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 08:07:57 PM by Hog95023 »
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2014, 12:49:44 PM »

Maybe swapping to a short cam would be a better route . IF you are looking for the down low grunt. Cams for the crate engine are limited due to the oil pump set up. What ex are you running?  Keeping touring in mind limited choice on fuel quality, option may be use of a PV tuner to have more than one map. Or keeping the dynamic comp ratio to run on poor gas and giving up the Hp for a broad low to mid range tq curve. The 585 cam is extremely fun and easy going in a 124. Several 585 low comp crate 124 that we installed last year. All ran great with massive throttle response and for a 850+ bike run very strong.  The 585 tuned with a good ex will produce 120 TQ by 2700 where as the 640 cam in a 11.2 comp 124 crate engine is going to be more in the 300-3200 range for the same tq .. AVG looking over almost 2 dozen crate engines  585 and 640 from last year.  If you decide on a procharger I would look to have static compression no higher than 10.5 and run a cam like the 640. As when you add in the boost to the static the tune will need to be spot on.. We have been installing a custom made meth kit with the turbo and pro charger bikes. More work more money and one more thing to keep your eye one. However meth kits all for a massive reduction in combustion temps.  Washer solvent is the norm for fluid on touring bikes . Boost juice for a hotter less touring more so hot rod set up. Meth is only on when bike is under boost.. Messed around with it on NA as well. It works but no real huge gains..
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2012 SHARK  S&S 124 150/140   www.gmrperformance.com

BigLew

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2014, 01:19:19 PM »

Ok seems to be good info. The old 124 had the 662 and made a lot of Hp up top but didn't really care about that very much. This stock S&S 124 has the 640 (I believe) but the profile really bleeds off a lot of boost. Tuner says not a great cam combo especially for the TQ. We basically set the limit at 6200 because of lack fuel. pretty happy with the tuner (Jody at Tilley's in NC). 198 HP/ 165 TQ but its all above 3200. Wish I had a little more mid range grunt. @ up on a touring bike with 400lbs of me and the misses combined is a lot to carry.

BigLew
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Classic Beast

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2014, 10:04:48 AM »

Lots of good information, it seems only one that has run the S&S 126, anyone else?  I keep running into information about this motor, with the larger bore 4 3/8, shorter stroke and the B2 heads I would think it would have a higher top end but also with the shorter stroke 4.187 it should live a lot longer. It appears the New S&S cases are good for 4 3/8 bore so this should be able to fit a 2012 road glide ultra? Does anyone know if this has been done? The 4 bolt exhaust ports cuts down on your exhaust choices but I know RB racing makes pipes with this flange.
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2012 Road glide ultra 103
DD7 Baker, S&S 570, Fulsac DX, 2"
SE CNC heads 58mm throttle body
95 FLSTN
127" Ultima
DD6 Baker
3 X PM 6 piston calipers
S&S Clutch
Lindal Ceramic discs
RB Black Hole pipe
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Custom Chrome front end
Rear chain drive
150WW Avon Venom rear tire
2009 Cadillac CTS-V

Bullwinkle

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2014, 06:26:21 PM »

I'm late to the party, sorry about that.

I can tell you some about the 126 but it is by no means definitive.

My 126 is in a 93 FXR and it bolts right in. Header fit is tight but not a problem. Changing rocker box gaskets probably is and it looks as if the engine needs to come out.

All S&S 126 engines are twin cam but available in cases with Evo engine mounts, too. A wiring adapter harness is needed and an Evo ignition module will not work.

I already had a Baker 5 speed, so I can't say if the stock trans is OK. The 126 only took a couple pulls at half throttle and 4th gear to fry the clutch, a Barnett clutch that was adequate for a nasty 120 with ported STD heads and a 266* .650 lift cam. Took a week after that to fry the starter drive, and another couple months to get the next one and I use the fancy drives made in USA with a sprag. The motor will find the weak spots if you don't already know what they are and for that matter, it will find them even if you do know. I am using the S&S high strength drive belt and if (when) it goes I'll switch to chain.

I use RB Racing Pro Stock Spyder head pipes (I cut the muffler off) grafted to a 2.5" Supertrapp muffler with no disks. The Spyder muffler sounded like crap and cost both power and torque. Now power is everywhere.  You don't get that big torque hit down low but it hits hard enough to spin the tire at any throttle more than about 1/3 in 1st gear, which is good. On rare occasions when the tire does hook up, the front tire comes up.  So you end up replacing rear tires when the front has very little wear. At first I was hoping for more low end torque but then realist woke up and let me know that you really don't need any more torque than this in the FXR or Dyna, and if it had more you would get in trouble a lot sooner and deeper.

Power over 4K RPM and half throttle is scary. That 120 was pretty strong and this thing makes it feel like something was wrong with it.

The 126 needs a bigger pipe. I'm thinking a good step pipe. Star Racing suggests 2"->2.125->2.250, if I remember correctly. They want $1900 for their pipe, so I will make my own when I can. Or help a friend who has a TIG welder.

It needs a lot of carb, too. I used first an S&S G, then had John Sachs bore it from 44mm to 47. That was a lot better.  Now I am running a Mikuni 48 and it feels better than either S&S but still held back. Star Racing suggested an S&S D carb but they are no fun on the street. Maybe when my rich aunt dies I can afford one of the hot rod shops to work one over and civilize it.

So, for you FI guys I don't know which throttle body is best, but I would guess 55-60 MM.

I had Star cut the heads for higher compression and port them. Can't say how much this helped, but I am pretty content with it now.

I didn't want to make this message about me, but I thought it might be important to post what I did and any ideas or reactions about what happened and if it might be better.

The lesson so far is that if this thing is to be optimum, then many areas need TLC. If you aren't prepared to go the whole route, then save some money and get a milder 120, 124 or one of the Ultimas. They have the big torque and aren't as fussy about pipes and induction.

There are many here with more experience than me, so listen to then about the nuts and bolts technical aspects.  This is just from the POV of a recently destitute owner, an owner driven to the poorhouse by this thing letting me know which parts are inadequate.
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2014, 06:38:35 PM »

bullwinkle Have you thought about the twin G carbs on the extreme manifold . They can be tuned to be extremely smooth for the 126 for the street, T jets is the norm.
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2012 SHARK  S&S 124 150/140   www.gmrperformance.com

Bullwinkle

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2014, 09:41:38 AM »

I gave them some thought but don't know a thing about synchronizing or tuning more than one carb. Then I thought that two Gs might be too much carb for the street. Seems that they would sized like a single carb feeding a 63" engine with about 75-80 HP and an E might be perfect for that with 2 Gs being overcarbed.  Seems that G carbs might not be as good as E carbs until maybe 190-200 HP. Then again, I could be missing something. Have before, will again.

Then you have the issue of gas mileage. It is fair to say that if mileage is an issue then the 126 should not be in there and I don't disagree. But my son & I go to western NC and Tenn. from time to time and gas stations with premium are not as common there as we would like. An extra 10 miles per tankful can save a lot of pushing.

So, we all have our compromises to make and knowing where to make this one is a challenge.

Thanks for the suggestion. If you get time, let me know how far off the reservation I am regarding G vs. E carb sizing.
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HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2014, 10:19:14 AM »

Dual-carb tuning is not a big deal.
When we devolped our Cross-Ram Double-D, and Double-B systems, with multiple-t/jets in either system, they tuned right in(made more power) on the dyno's that they had been ran on.
Manufacturing a Twin-G system now for a client.
FWIW, we had the very first AHDRA Modified Class Bike with dual-carbs when the rule-change went into effect years ago. :)
Scott
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johnsachs

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2014, 07:18:44 PM »

I gave them some thought but don't know a thing about synchronizing or tuning more than one carb. Then I thought that two Gs might be too much carb for the street. Seems that they would sized like a single carb feeding a 63" engine with about 75-80 HP and an E might be perfect for that with 2 Gs being overcarbed.  Seems that G carbs might not be as good as E carbs until maybe 190-200 HP. Then again, I could be missing something. Have before, will again.

Then you have the issue of gas mileage. It is fair to say that if mileage is an issue then the 126 should not be in there and I don't disagree. But my son & I go to western NC and Tenn. from time to time and gas stations with premium are not as common there as we would like. An extra 10 miles per tankful can save a lot of pushing.

So, we all have our compromises to make and knowing where to make this one is a challenge.

Thanks for the suggestion. If you get time, let me know how far off the reservation I am regarding G vs. E carb sizing.

Bull,
You may want to get hold of James Simonelli at Baker trans. for his experience with 2 carbs. He started out with 2 48 MIK's, sent me 2 "G" carbs to do, and said they worked good. At the end of the day he went to a "D".
His motor is bigger than yours. Street and strip. He's running 9.60s.
John
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Jswerve

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2014, 07:59:41 PM »

Bull,
You may want to get hold of James Simonelli at Baker trans. for his experience with 2 carbs. He started out with 2 48 MIK's, sent me 2 "G" carbs to do, and said they worked good. At the end of the day he went to a "D".
His motor is bigger than yours. Street and strip. He's running 9.60s.
John

There you have it, a Sachs sighting!
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2012 FLHXSE3 Ruby Red/Typhoon Maroon
|Color Matched Detachable Tour Pak | Fuelmoto PV | Dragos 580 cams | Dragula 2-1/Ghost Pipe | Cyclesmith 13's | Sachs heads | Yaffe Stealth III License Plate Frame| Long Angled High

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2014, 07:31:05 AM »

Our Dual-B Cross-Ram intake system helped power the worlds quickest(at the time) 107" XL to a BLISTERING 8.58 @ 152 plus mph, Maple Grove, PA, owned by Rick Muse, Salem, NH, Ganno's Machine, Pelham, NH.
Bike ran an 8.52 in Epping, NH as well.
We know a thing or 3 about dual-carb set-ups................ :)
Scott
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prodrag1320

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2014, 07:44:51 AM »

duals carbs will work very well if set up right,we`ve also had a lot of experience with dual carbs,running 8.14 on gas in the 90`s on our pro gas bikes.the S&S set up for the 126"`s is similar to what we were running (we used 2 D carbs though)

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2014, 11:23:37 AM »

Looked it up on a photo they had sent us.
8.61
8.62
8.58
8.61
152.42 mph.
Could have been a bracket bike......haha. :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
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Hotbo

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Re: S&S crate 124 engine dyno
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2014, 10:58:29 PM »

Dual-carb tuning is not a big deal.
When we devolped our Cross-Ram Double-D, and Double-B systems, with multiple-t/jets in either system, they tuned right in(made more power) on the dyno's that they had been ran on.
Manufacturing a Twin-G system now for a client.
FWIW, we had the very first AHDRA Modified Class Bike with dual-carbs when the rule-change went into effect years ago. :)
Scott

That Twin-G intake i look forward to Brother!
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03 Fatty Hillside 124" Dragos(Rush wrath)pipe,Bored S&S G W/T-Jet
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