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Author Topic: Miles between oil change Q.  (Read 10704 times)

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RAINEY

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2016, 03:55:45 PM »

Why wouldn't you change the filters anyways?  Thy are not that expensive anyways.  The modern day quality nationally branded oils will out live the drain intervals on the filters.  The filters catches the crud that your oil keeps in suspension.  As an owner of an oil analysis laboratory testing a lot of different fluids and everything from high end exotic cars, power generations assets, industrial equipment and HD offroad equipment you really cannot know the state of the oil or wear unless you perform oil analysis.  I see a lot of premium synthetic lubricants that can be used long after they have been drained.  Some actually spec out close to "new" oil.  There are a few fleets of class 8 trucks running 80,000 - 100,000 miles on the engine oil.  They bring the trucks in for a PM and new filters and send them right back out.

Oil threads of any type always get whacky from myths, know-it-alls, because my grandpa did it that way or I read it somewhere.

I change my primary and trans when the TAN (Total Acid Number) starts to increase.  If there's a mechanical issue, it might warrant a fluid change due to contamination from the mechanical issue.  Gear oils can run a very long time without needing to be changed.  Engine oils will need to be changed more frequently because the the violent nature of the internal combustion engine.  You have high heat, soot, fuel dilution, contaminants being introduced through the air intake and so on.

My nickels worth
Jason
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Burgundy Blaze CVO

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2016, 10:26:05 AM »

I don't even do that.  Engine and primary at 5k.  Any good transmission gear oil will live a lot longer.  For me the tranny gets changed with the spring services in even numbered years or at about 25k miles.  Even that is an abundance of caution.  Just think how long that same oil just keeps going and going and going in the third members of our automobiles?
Why not change all 3 it's only a little oil and effort. It's easier to spot a problem if you check it often.
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longlast

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2016, 11:20:03 AM »

There has been some good discussion and sharing of knowledge on this thread.
Now one on synthetic vis mineral oil, what is the opinion on using a synthetic oil opposed to a mineral oil in the CVOs? I know they come from the factory with syn3 in all holes. Is there a pacific reason WHY synthetic oil is in the CVOs and mineral oil is used in other none CVO Harley bikes.
Asking because I don't know the answer  ::)    Can one use a mineral oil in the CVOs :nixweiss: 
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grc

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2016, 04:12:10 PM »


You can use a regular non-synthetic motor oil, but IMHO a good full synthetic is superior, especially at the higher operating temperatures found with the CVO110 engines.  If you decide to follow your guy's recommendation of 2500 mile changes, then the non-syn would make sense.  No need to spend more for the synthetic if you plan to throw it away long before it's worn out.

Jerry
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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2016, 07:52:55 PM »

You can use a regular non-synthetic motor oil, but IMHO a good full synthetic is superior, especially at the higher operating temperatures found with the CVO110 engines.  If you decide to follow your guy's recommendation of 2500 mile changes, then the non-syn would make sense.  No need to spend more for the synthetic if you plan to throw it away long before it's worn out.

Jerry

...and if this path is chosen then plan to avoid ever getting caught in slow or stop-and-go traffic on a warm or hot day.
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RAINEY

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2016, 09:15:24 PM »

The good nationally branded true full synthetics will remove heat faster and help the engine stay cooler. If your not running hot there no harm in a conventional. Without a doubt the synthetic oils are superior to the conventionals. With the minimal fluid that these bikes take, why not run full syn.
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JCZ

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2016, 09:53:46 PM »

Why wouldn't you change the filters anyways?  Thy are not that expensive anyways.  The modern day quality nationally branded oils will out live the drain intervals on the filters.  The filters catches the crud that your oil keeps in suspension.  As an owner of an oil analysis laboratory testing a lot of different fluids and everything from high end exotic cars, power generations assets, industrial equipment and HD offroad equipment you really cannot know the state of the oil or wear unless you perform oil analysis.  I see a lot of premium synthetic lubricants that can be used long after they have been drained.  Some actually spec out close to "new" oil.  There are a few fleets of class 8 trucks running 80,000 - 100,000 miles on the engine oil.  They bring the trucks in for a PM and new filters and send them right back out.

Oil threads of any type always get whacky from myths, know-it-alls, because my grandpa did it that way or I read it somewhere.

I change my primary and trans when the TAN (Total Acid Number) starts to increase.  If there's a mechanical issue, it might warrant a fluid change due to contamination from the mechanical issue.  Gear oils can run a very long time without needing to be changed.  Engine oils will need to be changed more frequently because the the violent nature of the internal combustion engine.  You have high heat, soot, fuel dilution, contaminants being introduced through the air intake and so on.

My nickels worth
Jason

Jason what does your mileage average on those changes, in the summer months?
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CVOSE

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2016, 05:29:00 AM »

I do an engine oil change once a year. I.e. 10k mls. The primairy and the tranny every other year.
Now over 60k mls and no oil adding between the changes and a very healthy engine.

Bike is mostly used for longer distances. (In the Netherlands this means at least 100 mls)
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RAINEY

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2016, 07:50:13 AM »

Jason what does your mileage average on those changes, in the summer months?

It varies depending on the amount of miles that I can put on.  I don't put the miles on like I did before opening up the lab.  When I do get on some miles I will run up to 7,000 miles but that's conservative and every oil & condition can change the rate of TAN increase.  Excessive heat and a lot of bad and contaminated air getting past the air intake can increase that TAN and contamination more quickly.  The higher performance and higher flow air filters will allow more particles and contaminates to enter the crankcase.  We can detect silicon which is either an additive or dirt/dust in the oil.  The additive aspect is typically a defoament.  We can identify which is which with the type of particle counter that we use.

Sitting for long periods of time and over long winter storage will increase the TAN levels.  That why you will see time/mileage recommended intervals. 

With the mileage I'm running between the two bikes they typically get an oil change every spring when coming out of storage.  I miss living in Southern California where I could ride every day.  BTW I Use Mobil 1 in every vehicle I own and Red Line in the motorcycles.  There's a lot of good oils out there.  Stay away from most store brands.  There's also a lot of oils out there labeled "Full Syn" when they are actually a Group III basestock which technically does not qualify as a Full Synthetic. 

I recommend at least running a couple oil analysis on your components to get a baseline to decide where the ideal change time is.  Since I keep my motorcycles longer than cars and trucks I tend to over maintain them.
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longlast

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2016, 02:02:50 PM »

Thanks guys, I'm lubed up with a lot more oil knowledge for my drivetrain then I was a few days ago  ;) :2vrolijk_21:
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Smellymo

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2016, 12:36:36 AM »

It's not always just miles, it's time too. It is my belief that changing fluids more often than truly needed only costs a little more in time and $. I tend to spend a lot of money on my bikes, so I change fluids often. I can afford it and it makes me feel better.
Your mileage may vary. I change all three holes at least every 5000 miles. If for some odd reason I didn't get 5000 miles in on a particular bike in a year, I would change all the fluids anyway. I'm not making recommendations, just stating what I do.
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bigchuck

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2016, 03:40:19 AM »

Okay, I read this forum every day, I have seen the extensive amount of knowledge here - but I just so happened to be talking with the owner of a pretty reputable shop in southern wisconsin today and this topic came up. Here's what he said: "Change the oil every 2500 miles and the filter on every-other." This was followed by my "Of course you want guys to bring their bikes in 2x as often,..."

Thoughts anyone?

Why run clean oil through a dirty filter? Back in the day, before synthetic oil, some people did the opposite by changing the filter twice as often as the oil.
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skratch

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2016, 07:56:10 AM »

As an owner of an oil analysis laboratory testing a lot of different fluids and everything from high end exotic cars, power generations assets, industrial equipment and HD offroad equipment you really cannot know the state of the oil or wear unless you perform oil analysis. 

do i see cvo discounts on uoa?  :bananarock:
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donvito

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2016, 09:13:23 AM »

Actually, back in the late 90's, when I was a Product Manager working a new series of off-road machine, we introduced a centrifugal filtration system in the hydraulic & transmission circuit. It was a canister containing a spinner that circulated the oil at a very high rate (rpm) and did an amazing job oil cleaning the oil. It was not revolutionary, but was innovative & unique in the industry & application. It completely replaced the industry-standard cartridge and/or replaceable element filter used by all the other (and us, to). Thousands of hours of dirty, high-temp use - and the oil would still be pristine.

Scuttled in the next generation of product a few years later. The Company and dealers couldn't stomach the loss of filter & lubricant sales!

Also...there was some risk/concern the centrifugal system worked SO good it would/could separate the vital oil additives (such as anti-chatter additives for the wet clutches & brakes).

But, technology DOES exist to get FAR more life from our lubricants.
Where I work now we have a fleet of over 400 buses, we use to use that type of spinner filter butafter some extensive testing we found they wernt any good in our applicstion because our average speed was 20 mph. They'd probably work better at high speed driving. We switched everything over to "Eco-Microfilter" which is a low psi fed 4Micron filter. Our results after double mileage drain that the chem pack degradation  was less than 2% of new oil with almist 100% remival of large danaging size particles.
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RAINEY

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Re: Miles between oil change Q.
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2016, 04:48:16 PM »

do i see cvo discounts on uoa?  :bananarock:

Please send me a PM.  This is not a solicitation to make revenue and skirt advertising/marketing.  I will Offer CVO members testing at my cost for consumables and labor.
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