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[RedFXR2]

Has anyone replaced their rocker box gaskets (EVO motor, FXR frame)?

[hatchetjak]

I have the same problem on my FXR4. I replaced the front gaskets with no real trouble, (the rear was not leaking at the time).  You will have to remove the rocker arm assembly  to remove the lower cover and replace the lower gasket. That is where mine was leaking. I would advise you not to use the oem gaskets from Harley, they are paper thin.   JIMS gaskets are thicker and have a silicone strip built in the gasket...much better.  My rear rocker box is now leaking, but I haven't tackled it yet... think I'll wait till riding season slows a bit, but I think you are right about dropping the engine down to get to the bolts. Let me know how it goes, I would appreciate the voice of experience. HJ

[RedFXR2]

Jack, your situation and mine sound identical.  I received my manual and it says to remove the pushrods and rocker arms to get to the bottom piece--which is, of course, where my leak is.  Like yours, my rear cylinder isn't leaking yet, either, but I figure that if the front one is, ther rear one can't be far behind.  I've been warned about HD gaskets, although they're apparently much better than they once were.  Folks tell me to use Jims or James gaskets.  Since I don't have a bike lift I may let my local independent shop tell me how much they'd charge for this and make a decision.

Thanks for the response.

[RedFXR2]

I have the same problem on my FXR4. I replaced the front gaskets with no real trouble, (the rear was not leaking at the time).

[clhtexfxr]

Well Men,I have tackled this problem with the bottom gasket leaking on the back jug. I'am not going to say it was easy and maybe not the most professional way. But this is what I done. And it worked. The allen head bolt that's on the back with little, to no clearence can be removed. Take a pair of small channel locks back the bolt out a little at a time. Then take a good flat file start shaving a little bit at a time , until you have shaved a good 1/8"+ off the top of the allen bolt. The top cover can be removed then you can go to work on the rest of it. I went back with Harley gaskets no problem so far. Everything can be torqued back. The only thing is you can't go back with the same allen head bolts on the left side. I went back with some flat hex head  harden steel bolts. Had to shorten them a little. But it worked and you can't see because the gas tank covers them. About 3,500+ miles no leaks runs great. Cost about 50 bucks, 6 to 7 hours and a few beers.

[FXR2evo99]

Helllo everyone.....

Well I was rereading some old threads and thought this information might help someone in the future, as I had to replace all the way down to the rocker "cover" / "base" gaskets in my 1999 FXR2 in June of 2005 after first purchasing my bike:

I too have incorporated the one piece metal James gasket with the bead for the location of the rocker cover gasket or as some refer to it as the rocker base gasket.  I haven't been all the way down to the cylinder base gasket but if I were to I would also use the james metal base gasket.  I might turn to a metal MLS cometic gasket for the cylinder head perhaps using either a .030 or .040.  I however have read good things about the Geninue James metal cylinder head gasket as well.   Where I would deviate from the James Genuine Gaskets back to the OEM gaskets would be located within the rocker boxes themselves, the rubber (neoprene) upper, lower, and inner rocker gaskets along with the washers which are used to keep the rocker covers secured.  Personal experience with the Geniune James "rubber / neoprene" gasket resulted in a upper rocker gasket failure, although I will say that James did stand behind their product and provided a complete replacement kit for both cylinders free of charge and even asked me to return the "failed" gasket so they might determine the reason....never heard anything from them.  I will just say that I have to agree with the historical comments that I have read on other web sites on this topic that the OEM "rubber / neoprene" rocker gaskets seem to be better designed to fit the "channels" that they must align with inside the rockers.  I specifically and individually found this too be true as well. Also "historical" evidence points to making sure one should place "hylomar" or "aviation gasket cement" very lightly covering the metal cylinder base gasket, the cylinder head gasket and finally the rocker base / rocker cover gasket.  When I did my "gasket" repair in 05 I at the location of the rocker base/cover gasket it I placed "hylomar" upon it and I have had no issues.

A Photo of aviation gasket cement is provided below an EXCELLENT product as well, it can be found at NAPA.  I use this product often times in place of blue loc tite and have done so for over 3 years now....just an excellent product....I use it to keep screws/bolts from gnalling, it never hardens or get's "stringy" always remaining flexible:

[RedFXR2]

Just for closure, since I started this thread waaaaaaay back in '04--my top rocker box cover plates were leaking.  First the front and then the back.

I bought a scissors jack out of a junkyard (mine's from a Honda Accord, just get one that folds low enough to get under the bike) and used it to lower the engine in the frame for access to my rocker boxes.  Slide the jack under the motor, raise it to engage some weight, remove the front engine mount and then lower the motor with the jack, using the rear two mounts as a pivot point.  I used HD rocker box gaskets and discovered that my top plates were warped enough to prevent sealing.  Since the original top covers were scratched up rather badly from someone before me trying to access them without lowering the motor, I bought two new ones, which were also warped new in the box .  So, I used 220 grit sandpaper on a granite countertop and sanded the new ones flat.  This also removes the chrome from the gasket sealing area.  Put in the new gaskets and it's been oil dry since.

[osseobob]

Hey Red,
I had that problem 5 years ago, had a local pro bike shop replace the gaskets for me. Only to have them leak again 3 weeks later. Boy was I pissed. That shop promised to fix the prob but later the owner wound up in jail so I was SOL. So I had my local HD shop do the next repail. apparently Harley had new special gaskets. Well I now have 32k on the bike and they have never leaked since. I do most of my own maintenance but for that repair I am glad I let the HD shop handle it.

[fxr4mikey]

Just for closure, since I started this thread waaaaaaay back in '04--my top rocker box cover plates were leaking.  First the front and then the back.

I bought a scissors jack out of a junkyard (mine's from a Honda Accord, just get one that folds low enough to get under the bike) and used it to lower the engine in the frame for access to my rocker boxes.  Slide the jack under the motor, raise it to engage some weight, remove the front engine mount and then lower the motor with the jack, using the rear two mounts as a pivot point.  I used HD rocker box gaskets and discovered that my top plates were warped enough to prevent sealing.  Since the original top covers were scratched up rather badly from someone before me trying to access them without lowering the motor, I bought two new ones, which were also warped new in the box .  So, I used 220 grit sandpaper on a granite countertop and sanded the new ones flat.  This also removes the chrome from the gasket sealing area.  Put in the new gaskets and it's been oil dry since.

Thanks for posting this up ....
I have a fxr4 candy tangerine (will post up pics later)
My rocker box bottom gaskets have a small leak, both cyl

I'm ready to put SE heads on the bike and have been struggling with how to do this for awhile.

I have one question for you .... you have an fxr2 ?   and is there a stabilizer bar on the top of the engine, attached to the frame ?
there is on my bike .... looks as though I not only need to remove the front motor mount, but must also disconnect this bar

Thanks in advance for any help !

Mike

[RedFXR2]

I have one question for you .... you have an fxr2 ?   and is there a stabilizer bar on the top of the engine, attached to the frame ?
there is on my bike .... looks as though I not only need to remove the front motor mount, but must also disconnect this bar?

This has been quite a while ago but I don't think the top heim joint must be removed in order to lower the engine for rocker box access.  It can simply pivot at each end when the motor movers down on the rear mounts.  I think.  But if it must be removed, it's not hard.  You may need to remove the coil for access. 

[FXR2evo99]

I want to agree with RedFXR2's reflections......and just another thought on this as well...when I did my rocker box gasket repairs I only loosened and dealt with the front engine mount to allow me the needed clearance to get to the rest of the project.


You may find it helpful to have a factory authorized service manual available to you for this project, I believe this topic will be specifically addressed within the service manual......if you have one follow the suggested steps if you don't have one you can acquire them on ebay.  Elvislee under a recent thread has now provided the HD part numbers that are each associated with the parts book, service manual, and owners manual for each of the three "CVO" FXR's. You will want a "factory" "authorized" edition of the Service Manual specific to your bike.   You are going to need a service manual for the rest of what you are doing as well....

Keep asking questions if you need further assistance....someone here can help I am sure of it!!!

Regards,


Tim

[fxr4mikey]

I want to agree with RedFXR2's reflections......and just another thought on this as well...when I did my rocker box gasket repairs I only loosened and dealt with the front engine mount to allow me the needed clearance to get to the rest of the project.


You may find it helpful to have a factory authorized service manual available to you for this project, I believe this topic will be specifically addressed within the service manual......if you have one follow the suggested steps if you don't have one you can acquire them on ebay.  Elvislee under a recent thread has now provided the HD part numbers that are each associated with the parts book, service manual, and owners manual for each of the three "CVO" FXR's. You will want a "factory" "authorized" edition of the Service Manual specific to your bike.   You are going to need a service manual for the rest of what you are doing as well....

Keep asking questions if you need further assistance....someone here can help I am sure of it!!!

Regards,


Tim

Tim - Thanks for your help.   I do have the parts manual for the FXR4 (part no. 99429-00) and the service manual (part no. 99480-99) which is really the FXR3 service manual.
Perhaps I need the FXR4 supplement because I've been looking through the service manual and I haven't found any place in the manual where it describes how to remove the rocker box covers.  Well, I haven't found any place in the manual that describes how to access the left rear rocker box bolt on the rear cylinder.

Do you, or does anyone else, know of a page reference in the service manual that describes how to access the left rear rocker box bolt on the rear cylinder.  If not, that's ok, I'm going to try the method that has been posted here, which is WAY more help than what I've gotten from some of the local service techs.

Thanks to everyone for their input and posts !!

Mike

[FXR2evo99]

I do have the parts manual for the FXR4 (part no. 99429-00) and the service manual (part no. 99480-99) which is really the FXR3 [actually this also is the Service Manual for the FXR2 as well] service manual.

Perhaps I need the FXR4 supplement because I've been looking through the service manual and I haven't found any place in the manual where it describes how to remove the rocker box covers.  Well, I haven't found any place in the manual that describes how to access the left rear rocker box bolt on the rear cylinder.

Do you, or does anyone else, know of a page reference in the service manual that describes how to access the left rear rocker box bolt on the rear cylinder.  If not, that's ok, I'm going to try the method that has been posted here.

Mike~~~~

Alrighty 2 hours of research later and another hour to figure out how to put this accurately in text, here we go.......lol.....I "too" sat down with my FXR2 & FXR3 Service Manual and now I remember why I felt it was so poorly written.  To digress here a moment, when I brought my FXR2 home after purchasing it [I purchased mine in June of 2005] I had some issues with rocker box gaskets leaking as well as a rear cylinder head gasket leak since the bike obviously hadn't been ridden that much....so the gaskets were most likely "dried out".....anyway my point is I had to go into both rocker boxes and I replaced all of the gaskets all the way down to the cylinder head gasket as well for both cylinders even though the front was having no issues....with manual in hand it really wasn't that much help.  So now that I have sat down with the manual and processed how I did it....here is what I would do....there of course may be a better way....but this is at least my way...

The FXR4 supplement will not be of any benefit to you for this "particular" project/task, as the supplement addresses primarily the wiring changes for the speedo/odometer, as well as the front fork changes with the dual discs, and brakes since they are different as well. So the supplement is addressing those issues.....what you are experiencing is that the "Tech" writing for the cvo FXR's was poorly written in some areas....but I suppose they are assuming that if one is working on these bikes they must have some know how....however, I still have a 2003 Dyna Low Rider Service Manual [which while I no longer own the bike I have found the manual to still be valuable to in some practical applications for both the FXR and my RKC] as well as my 2002 Touring Manual for a 2002 RKC [which I still own] to be much better written and detailed in explaining certain aspects....much more so than the FXR2/FXR3 Service Manual.  So rest assured it's not you missing something within the Service Manual, it's that it's not in there.....and in fact if you read carefully the only way they really review working on the rocker boxes is with the "ENGINE REMOVED FROM THE BIKE" what the frick is that all about....lol...as if that is "PRACTICAL"......ok so enough venting....onward.....

(continued)

[FXR2evo99]

(continued from above)

At the time of me doing this work, my buddy took his FXR3 in to our local indy mechanic to also have a cylinder head gasket replaced. So I know what I am about to say has a different methodology as well, but I am not familiar with it.

1) You don't have to but I strongly suggest removing the gas tank...I say you don't have to because the indy mechanic said he didn't remove my buddies to repair his rear cylinder gasket leak.....The indy also owned an earlier model FXR at the time and told me that he drilled his bike's frame area just above the rear left cylinder 3/16" hex head screw to remove it more easily apparently this is what some FXR owners do...I am not sure how often it has been done in the past but obviously it was something that indeed was done...must have been "old school"...lol....well of course I "ain't" drillin into my frame....just because it's quicker to do so....but I bet you know what I am talking about seeing the room that you have. Ok so I say remove the tank.....for a couple of reasons, if you aren't an indy mechanic...and I know your not or you wouldn't be asking these questions....we have more of a "visual" interest in "seeing" things compared to those guys since it's always about speed for them.  So remove the tank, this will give you a wider and more direct view to what's going on....it will add time to the job and so forth....you could prop up the tank by putting a tennis ball underneath the rear of the tank where it bolts below the seat to the frame but you still won't be able to see directly "into" what you are working on which may not be a good thing since we need all the help we can get, right? lol....well @ least I do.... Once the tank is removed now you have more room to work.

2) remove your exhaust system especially if you are going to be around the cam chest for any reason.

3) As RedFXR2 mentions remove the the front engine mount as well....it rotates the engine just enough to provide a bit more room for the rear cylinder upper rocker arm cover 3/16" hex head screws.....once the engine mount is removed now you have all the access you are going to get....BUT BUT BUT...lol before removing the engine mount and lowering the engine via the jack, make sure you get a substantial rag to protect your frame when the engine moves and will eventually rest against the front of the frame as it is lowered.

3) There is NO PAGE reference for addressing how to remove the rear cylinder upper arm rocker cover, it doesn't exist. They don't talk about what tool to use or anything.

So here are your options:

You either cut down a 3/16" hex head wrench until there is barely a curve and enough straightness and depth remaining to fit into the hex head screw hole. This however does not provide you the opportunity to actually torque upon tightening.....I must admit though you may just be happy to get it removed and tightened and practically decidiing that you will "estimate" the torque value for this particular upper rocker arm cover screw based upon all the others you will use the torque wrench with and not worry about "torquing" it precisely.....I am sure many have subscribed to this action over the years...lol....so you wouldn't be the first....but if you are determined to properly "torque" here is another option.....One of the techinicans @ my local Harley Davidson Dealership actually designed and machined a "tool" that has a 16mm [I think the mechanic must have been messin with everyone to make the outside diameter 16mm instead of 5/8" lol] outer 6 pt head with a 3/16" hex head machined into the bottom of it which allows it to "drop" on to the 3/16" hex head upper rocker arm cover screw.....which then allows you to get a open end 16mm wrench and to loosen it that way, BUT because of the depth of a regular open end 16mm wrench you might find that you would need to also "thin" the depth of that wrench as well....essentially when you get this "tool" you say great now I can get it on the 3/16" hex head screw but now how do I get the open end 16mm" wrench in the limiting space you have between the top of the upper rocker box arm cover and the botton of the frame to remove the 3/16" hex head screw.  So you "may"  find that making the tool a bit thinner could prove to be beneficial.  NOW, then to tighten what can you do...the open end 16mm" wrench that you have modified to loosen the upper rocker arm cover screw to begin with doesn't afford you the ability to actually use it to torque....unless you take the other end of that open end wrench and weld on an adaptor to attach to your torque wrench... OR you could get a 16mm" open end crows foot extension to be able to properly torque the hex head but it too would need to be long enough to give you room to properly work your torque wrench and it would need to also be thin enough on the other end to fit properly as I just mentioned above.  At the end of the day it's complicated....and when you don't do it as often as the every day mechanics it's even more cumbersome.  I have worked with this particular tool that I mentioned above...and found that I had to thin the tool a bit more as the outer hex head was a bit too tall....so with some quick grinding it worked....So like I said, you have a couple of choices....and they are quite limiting....

(continue)

[FXR2evo99]

(continued from above)

Another option which might be available to you and would take you in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION would be to check into the feasablity of whether or not the rocker box upper arm cover screws for a "Twin Cam" are the same thread design and length (although if the "Twin Cam" screws are actually longer in theory you could cut to length if needed to properly fasten within the design of the evo engine).  So you might ask WHY would I even suggest this as a "potential" option, well that's because the "Twin Cam" upper rocker arm cover screws have a 7/16" 6 pt outside head [remember the evo upper rocker arm cover screws have a "rounded" outside diameter] and also have the 3/16" hex head center hole as well.  Now what this does is afford you to use a particular tool made by Snap On which is a 2" extension with an adaptor at one end and a 7/16" closed end wrench on the other end it is part # FRDH141, this tool is pretty expensive I think it's like $25.00 or so....it's expensive for how little it is lol.  So now if one were to decide to use the "Twin Cam" upper rocker arm cover bolts you have two ways for either tightening or removing them via a 3/16" internal hex head as well as a 7/16" inch outer 6 pt head.  This could obviously provide another solution for those pesky and difficult upper rocker arm cover screws [side note: Just remember if you do opt for this method anytime you add an extension to a torque wrench as long as you are able to put that extension/adapter 90 degrees to the torque wrench there is no "multiplier" involved however if you have to do it straight on then you have to consider that extension is acting a "multiper" and you have to account for that....]

As you can see it's a bit of a delima.....and the Service Manual is no help.....heck all I can tell you is each bolt you remove when going into the rocker boxes you better write down their sizes so you know what the right torque values are when you put everything back together because of the "criptic" nature of the Service Manual...shaking my head the Service Manual is no help with this....as far as I can figure there are 13 bolts/screws per cylinder down to removing the cylinder head and that I can only figure by looking closely at the FXR2 Parts Manual but the FXR3 Parts manual would acknowledge the same thing as well as the FXR4 since all of these bikes have the exact same engine...the differences in these bikes is obviously not the power plant.

If you decide that you want to call the local Harley Davidson shop and order the tool I described above....the hex head 3/16" with 16mm outer 6pt diameter I will provide the name of the dealership and the part number they ascribe to it and their phone number along with price.  But before I do....there is another tool they make that will definitely work very well....and I have used it with success with no alterations lol...you know on our evo's we have that Oil Screen Plug you will be able to see what I am referring to if you look in your parts manual  under the "crankcase" -gear side page of your FXR4 parts manual.  That "Oil Screen Plug" has a thin screw driver slot attached to it...it's really an akward size and with it being a "regular srew driver" type of slot there is no way to torque or really tighten it properly....so either the same technician or one of their other technicians machined a tool with the proper slot size on one end and @ the other end there is a hex head 6 point diameter area that allows you [with this tool] to remove as well as secure this "Oil Screen Plug" while using a socket adapter....it's really a pretty slick tool....but also expensive for what it is....so you can decide if you are interested or if anyone else is for that matter....I hate advertising for this dealership lol rolling my eyes but I don't know of anyone else doing these two tools which have some merit....oh and this is by NO means a 20% Discount Dealership.....lol not in this lifetime.....I do very little buying from here....but they are local to me.....

here is the information:
Thunder Mountain Harley Davidson
Loveland, CO
(970) 493-3137

They have ascribed their own internal part number for these tools and these tools aren't HD made as I said they were designed by one of their technicans....and they offer them for sale...

SW-4   $9.95  rocker Box 3/16" Hex Head Tool  <~~~ my description not theirs
SW-5 $10.95  Oil Screen Plug Tool  screw driver slot with hex head bottom <~~~~my descripton not theirs

Even though I have provided the descriptions they will know what you are talking about...you can always ask for the Part's Manager whose name is Dave Wheeler...he will know what you are talking about, but most of those guys "SHOULD" know.....lol.

So I am really not sure what real assistance I have provided here......but I tried...lol....since this is obviously something you are currently working on right now....PLEASE come back and post what you actually did and what RESULTS worked best for you....as you may come upon another solution that could benefit us all....and please feel free to keep asking any questions as well if more assistance or further ideas are required.....

Regards,


Tim