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[jfh]

Hoist,

Glad to hear that everything is coming together for you.  I agree that Joe is The Man for high performance tuning. Can't wait to hear the details of your build once everything is final. 

Regards,
John

[Hoist!]

Fantastic Hoist, sounds like you have a great setup, wonder how much factor the bigger TB is as mine has a 50mm. Anyway mine should be dome soon I hope Mike is changing cams and who knows what else just waiting to get it back.

Be careful just applying larger TB's or cams for that matter. The set of components I used were carefully matched (on paper at least) to all work together. You can't just bolt such a large TB or the cams I used, on a stock engine and expect these results. The cams I used are not bolt in cams at all. The components require headwork and spring changes for all the flows to match properly, and to handle the lift. Because this package is working so nicely at this point, it is still experimental and I agreed to do the testing and component swaps to see how everything worked together. Will this stuff ever get offered as a performance upgrade package? It might sometime in the future. Or maybe some modification of my package. I still have to test it with the FatCats and then try different TB's. We do believe that the 58 mm will stay though, but we can be surprised with the results of the smaller one. The way it rides now, in the detuned mode for break-in, I can't see it getting better than w/the 58 mm.

Thanks Rooster and John! I'm getting ever so close to completion now and can't wait to put it all behind me and just ride the chit out of it! The bags should be here next week, as he's supposed to complete them before he leaves for Sturgis on Thurs. And you're 100% correct John, Joe is The Man!

Hoist!

[Unbalanced]

Hoist,

What do you mean exactly that it matched on paper?  Could you send me the paper? 

Are you sure I can't just bolt the cam in to my 110?   

Wonder when Horse Power Inc is going to send me my throttle body?   

[Hoist!]

Hoist,

What do you mean exactly that it matched on paper?  Could you send me the paper? 

Are you sure I can't just bolt the cam in to my 110?   

Wonder when Horse Power Inc is going to send me my throttle body?   

I'd be careful Harry, as I'm told by some knowledgable people that the springs are right at the limit for my cams. Maybe. Maybe not. But I'd want heavier srings with this build. They also weren't designed for stock head flow characteristics. I didn't think about it too much as I was doing every bulletproof trick in the book anyway. I wanted the strongest, rideable, performance engine I could get in stock bottom end configuration, and not split the cases. We'll see how long the bottom holds up I guess!

It matched on paper as this package had never been tested before. It's made for the 110 specific and does not exist. Until now anyway!

As for your TB, what do I have, a friggin' crystal ball?

Hoist!

[Unbalanced]

come on I know you got a magic 8 ball, why not a crystal ball too.

[Rhino]

Hello Hoist,

I have been out of it for a while, and when I take a peek, you da man. I followed what you have done here, but after reading the below, are you riding yet? What do you mean, nearing completion. Are you still in the shop tweaking?  And finally, what is this about a paper.  Did you document what you did? Did you do different stuff than Harry created for you? I am curuous to see if you came up with a better combo than he did. That would be a hoot.  Let me know.  I need to take down another CVO off the line.  another XXX on the saddlebag will do me good.

I will be in Burlington NC Thurs through Sat looks like, having my 10K done at Davis Harley, the one and only Opie is doing it personally.

Rhino(stillfasterafterallthisyear)

Be careful just applying larger TB's or cams for that matter. The set of components I used were carefully matched (on paper at least) to all work together. You can't just bolt such a large TB or the cams I used, on a stock engine and expect these results. The cams I used are not bolt in cams at all. The components require headwork and spring changes for all the flows to match properly, and to handle the lift. Because this package is working so nicely at this point, it is still experimental and I agreed to do the testing and component swaps to see how everything worked together. Will this stuff ever get offered as a performance upgrade package? It might sometime in the future. Or maybe some modification of my package. I still have to test it with the FatCats and then try different TB's. We do believe that the 58 mm will stay though, but we can be surprised with the results of the smaller one. The way it rides now, in the detuned mode for break-in, I can't see it getting better than w/the 58 mm.

Thanks Rooster and John! I'm getting ever so close to completion now and can't wait to put it all behind me and just ride the chit out of it! The bags should be here next week, as he's supposed to complete them before he leaves for Sturgis on Thurs. And you're 100% correct John, Joe is The Man!

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Hello Hoist,

I have been out of it for a while, and when I take a peek, you da man. I followed what you have done here, but after reading the below, are you riding yet? What do you mean, nearing completion. Are you still in the shop tweaking?  And finally, what is this about a paper.  Did you document what you did? Did you do different stuff than Harry created for you? I am curuous to see if you came up with a better combo than he did. That would be a hoot.  Let me know.  I need to take down another CVO off the line.  another XXX on the saddlebag will do me good.

I will be in Burlington NC Thurs through Sat looks like, having my 10K done at Davis Harley, the one and only Opie is doing it personally.

Rhino(stillfasterafterallthisyear)

Dear Rhino (whohasn'tmethoistsserkyetandwillprobablybesorryhewrotethis)

I was gonna comment on your TMAT software thread, but decided I'd give you a break! But since your eager to take another CVO off the line, HS should be fun! But off the line is all that thing does from what I hear. And maybe not even that, with somebody with a good reaction time and solid launch! And even then, the line is just thew beginning. It takes a full 1/4 mile to beat someone. You'll need a pretty good jump for that holeshot win. It certainly won't be won on ET! Yes, Harry hooked me up with Wes and Wes put the package together with me. And yes it is different than what you might have heard. Since you and I have never spoken, you can't be assured that you really know what's going on now, can you? You can fiddle with that TMAT all you want. You can keep fiddling until you get some real components in that 110 of yours! And Red Shift 575 in the 110! He, he, he!

BTW, the bike's not picked up yet. I went up and broke it in this weekend. It's now in for final testing and tuning in the hands of a Master Tuner! One of the few that can actually also tune a TMax on a Dyno properly. Then you can dump that Autotune junk! Instead of fiddling with an ECM that most people can't comprehend, because we're not as computer literate as some, my testing has been based on work by proven performance designers, with real American muscle pig iron. Hardware! Not firmware or software! This will insure the correctly matched combination of components, while making the engine stronger and more reliable. Not foo-foo software playing around to get the desired results! Which BTW, I'm not convinced works without a real tune, in spite of your recent trip to MD!

Don't worry about whether I'm riding it yet, because I'm not. I want it right and am waiting as long as necessary to have the most competant people do what they do best. So fiddle away with your TMAT software, while I take the real muscle approach. But unless you've done as much homework on your engines components and changed them accordingly (or have and are just sandbagging), you might not be so cocky after meeting my SERK my friend! And I'm all too familiar pre-race intimidation tactics. By resorting to them now means you're really chitting over meeting!

Let the games begin folks!!!

Hoist!

[Rhino]

Heheeh Hoist,

Glad your muscle is flexing...need to see a real screamer built on a 110 first that lasts for a few miles.   Seen some others with serious HP, but not one on a 110 yet.  We will see.  And mine, its fine for now, but things do change, but just not yet.  Hope you get riding soon, would love to hear dyno numbers, and then some talk about that build.  Spending that coin, I would hope that I would get spanked hard.

Rhino

Dear Rhino (whohasn'tmethoistsserkyetandwillprobablybesorryhewrotethis)

I was gonna comment on your TMAT software thread, but decided I'd give you a break! But since your eager to take another CVO off the line, HS should be fun! But off the line is all that thing does from what I hear. And maybe not even that, with somebody with a good reaction time and solid launch! And even then, the line is just thew beginning. It takes a full 1/4 mile to beat someone. You'll need a pretty good jump for that holeshot win. It certainly won't be won on ET! Yes, Harry hooked me up with Wes and Wes put the package together with me. And yes it is different than what you might have heard. Since you and I have never spoken, you can't be assured that you really know what's going on now, can you? You can fiddle with that TMAT all you want. You can keep fiddling until you get some real components in that 110 of yours! And Red Shift 575 in the 110! He, he, he!

BTW, the bike's not picked up yet. I went up and broke it in this weekend. It's now in for final testing and tuning in the hands of a Master Tuner! One of the few that can actually also tune a TMax on a Dyno properly. Then you can dump that Autotune junk! Instead of fiddling with an ECM that most people can't comprehend, because we're not as computer literate as some, my testing has been based on work by proven performance designers, with real American muscle pig iron. Hardware! Not firmware or software! This will insure the correctly matched combination of components, while making the engine stronger and more reliable. Not foo-foo software playing around to get the desired results! Which BTW, I'm not convinced works without a real tune, in spite of your recent trip to MD!

Don't worry about whether I'm riding it yet, because I'm not. I want it right and am waiting as long as necessary to have the most competant people do what they do best. So fiddle away with your TMAT software, while I take the real muscle approach. But unless you've done as much homework on your engines components and changed them accordingly (or have and are just sandbagging), you might not be so cocky after meeting my SERK my friend! And I'm all too familiar pre-race intimidation tactics. By resorting to them now means you're really chitting over meeting!

Let the games begin folks!!!

Hoist!

[Rhino]

Oh yes, one more thing....OUCH! who got your panties in a knot?

Rhino

[Hoist!]

Oh yes, one more thing....OUCH! who got your panties in a knot?

Rhino

Ooh, not really, the fun's just beginning Ron! If you wanted a rise from the pre-race intimidation, I just play along. Heard it before. It's part of the game. You know it's nothing personal of course! There's no knot, but you didn't expect hugs and kisses, as a response to your post either, did ya?

The money was spent with performance in mind, but bulletproof as the underlying criteria. Yes the numbers would be really nice, because as you said, no one's unleashed this engine properly yet. And with the issues these 110's have had, including my own, it will be well worth it if this thing holds together now. Because the grin factor sure is there!

I will be happy to report after everything's said and done, and will put up the reports. I'll share what component testing I did and the comparative numbers of same for everyone's future benefit. And I'll put the numbers up, good, bad or indifferent! I'll share what I'm authorized to, as I've made some promises to the designer and tuner. And I intend to honor them. I'll release what I can. Hopefully it will become commercially available for all to enjoy. But I've been extremely involved in the process and have been enjoying every minute of it, since I pulled the bike and sought a new direction for my beloved SERK! Stay tuned! (No pun intended!).

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Todays Update:

Just spoke with Joe. He mounted the FatCats today. He said they look freakin' awesome on my bike with the S&S Tuned Induction Runner! He's reclearancing the rockers today and will start tuning it with this setup. After it's tuned and we get the best performance out of it, he's doing the same w/a smaller TB, just to insure we have the correct selection. Once we have the optimum combo of components on the bike, he'll do the final tuning for me. Hopefully I'll be picking it up on Sat or Sun! I spoke w/my engine designer about what might be offered by him for these 110's now. After final testing, he'll make a determination of what he'll offer. He's going to email me the stuff that I can tell you guys about, so you'd be able to contact him for help with these 110's! So far, I'm very happy with his design, choice of components, and w/my Tuner! A proven combination of quality racing components and a perfect tune will once again make you guys fall in love with your 110's! All it takes is a substantial investment and commitment to do it right, making sure you have a properly selected matched set of components, getting a competant engine builder, and finding the best tuner you can! Or you can wait for HD to do this for you. But don't hold your breath, you'll be turning blue in no time!

Hoist!

[Chief]

Todays Update:

Just spoke with Joe. He mounted the FatCats today. He said they look freakin' awesome on my bike with the S&S Tuned Induction Runner! He's reclearancing the rockers today and will start tuning it with this setup. After it's tuned and we get the best performance out of it, he's doing the same w/a smaller TB, just to insure we have the correct selection. Once we have the optimum combo of components on the bike, he'll do the final tuning for me. Hopefully I'll be picking it up on Sat or Sun! I spoke w/my engine designer about what might be offered by him for these 110's now. After final testing, he'll make a determination of what he'll offer. He's going to email me the stuff that I can tell you guys about, so you'd be able to contact him for help with these 110's! So far, I'm very happy with his design, choice of components, and w/my Tuner! A proven combination of quality racing components and a perfect tune will once again make you guys fall in love with your 110's! All it takes is a substantial investment and commitment to do it right, making sure you have a properly selected matched set of components, getting a competant engine builder, and finding the best tuner you can! Or you can wait for HD to do this for you. But don't hold your breath, you'll be turning blue in no time!

Hoist!

That's what I'm afraid of... Any idea of what that would be for those of us not playing guinea pig?

[Hoist!]

That's what I'm afraid of... Any idea of what that would be for those of us not playing guinea pig?

I went all out. You wouldn't necessarily need to do everything I did. And my Guinea Pig status, didn't necessarily save me $ on the components. Only the flexibilty to have them changed if there were a better choice of something that tested better. You should be prepared to probably spend at least 5 Grand for everything. Parts, Labor, and Tuning. I spent a little more, but you wouldn't/couldn't buy some of the things I did. Before I recommend going out and spending all that $$$, let's see how the final testing and reliability goes. Then we'll se if we can come up with a "package" for a good solid build, instead of the way I did it. This should also save some $$$. But if you're working with parts like Feuling, HPI, S&S, SE, Axtel, and other high-end companies, you'll get the best, but it's not cheap. You got these 110's now, so you know they need help. And ya'll know you only get what you pay for. And with stock chit, that ain't too much!!

Hoist!

[vagabond6542]

Be careful just applying larger TB's or cams for that matter. The set of components I used were carefully matched (on paper at least) to all work together. You can't just bolt such a large TB or the cams I used, on a stock engine and expect these results. The cams I used are not bolt in cams at all. The components require headwork and spring changes for all the flows to match properly, and to handle the lift. Because this package is working so nicely at this point, it is still experimental and I agreed to do the testing and component swaps to see how everything worked together. Will this stuff ever get offered as a performance upgrade package? It might sometime in the future. Or maybe some modification of my package. I still have to test it with the FatCats and then try different TB's. We do believe that the 58 mm will stay though, but we can be surprised with the results of the smaller one. The way it rides now, in the detuned mode for break-in, I can't see it getting better than w/the 58 mm.

Thanks Rooster and John! I'm getting ever so close to completion now and can't wait to put it all behind me and just ride the chit out of it! The bags should be here next week, as he's supposed to complete them before he leaves for Sturgis on Thurs. And you're 100% correct John, Joe is The Man!

Hoist!

Hoist,

I know I am stepping late into this modification scenario, But I have a question.
On using the lift characteristics of the cams, the air flow of the headports, and the air flow of the TB, what is the percentage of volumetric efficiency at what rpm bandwith are you shooting for?
Just was wondering.

[Unbalanced]

Chief,   

I just got off the phone with Wes in regards to some transmission warranty work he has in process for me and while on the phone asked him how he wanted this explained since the drama around this package has just gone way to far.   What was supposed to be a quiet non discussed package since it is not a proven combinaton yet has turned into a huge long thread.

This package is infact something I worked out with Wes Brown at Cycle Rama for my 110" Ultra.   I then shared the information with Howie and passed on the headwork due to paying off my remaining hospital bills from my accident.   I called Howie to let him know that I passed on the heads and that since his bike was supposed to be coming apart that he could have them if he wanted them and what throttle body Wes was suggesting and that I would be getting the 2nd set.   

Howie then went with the rest of the package and is now testing some different combinations with throttlebody / air induction / exhaust with his tuner Joe.   I am just waiting on my 58mm throttle body and my blanks to come in.  The cam was installed some weeks ago as the first test.  It works very well but requires more lift than the stock springs have.

The throttlebody suggested by Wes the 58 mm seems to be right on the button with the cam chosen for the 110's based on the preliminary results, but Howie's results may speak contrary to that based on his combination.   

The package that is currently being tested can be had by sending your heads off to Wes or buying heads from him which are 07 blanks, having them shaved a bit to create some compression or going with 10.25 pistons, and then have the heads worked with a change in springs to handle slightly higher lift than they can withstand today.   This should yield an approx compression of 9.6 - 10.0 to 1 with shaved and approx 10.5 - 10.7 with high compression pistons.   You will need a larger throttlebody and injectors 55mm / 58mm depending on the final results.  You could continue to use your flat top pistons, but I would recommend if you decide to go flat tops that you buy forged and new rings and a ball hone.   I would also recommend new lifters, and possibly roller rockers.   

The cam Wes's 595 can be had in 07 chain drive or in gear drive.   They are not on the shelf for the 07's and are ground to order by I believe Andrews for Wes, but you would have to double check that point with Wes.   

Hope this gives you the needed information, for prices and availability please call Wes at Cycle Rama.
www.cycle-rama.com     (727) 546-0889


What is needed:

Heads or Headwork

cylinders honed / new cylinders   I would go with new cylinders or have the dealer get you new cylinders due to the leak problems.   I have yet to hear of anyone having leaking problems once they have been replaced.  Time will tell but ya know better safe than sorry.

flat tops old / flat tops new forged / 10.25 high compression
Cam 595  / 07 chain / Gear Drive version
Gaskets
Rocker Box clearancing
Lifters
Adjustable Push Rods
A good tune

Optional Items:
Roller Rockers
High Flow Oil Filter
upgraded Clutch
VPC

-harry