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[Chief]

With the frame swap going on, I'm in a good place to shed some light on the swingarm on our Ultras and Road Kings. Currently, one of the hottest aftermarket parts out there are the many different stabilizers designed to improve the handling of the FLH series of bikes.

Hopefully these pictures will help site members see just how the rear end of the bike goes together and they can understand just what the stabilizers will and won't do.

First, the parts...

This is a shot of the rear of the FLH transmission with the swingarm directly behind the shaft. On the outermost ends of the pivot shaft you have the large rubber mounts, more about them later. Inside of the rubber mounts you can see the outboard spacers. Just inside of that you can see the shiny surface of the inner spacer. The swingarm bearings (not shown) go on the inner spacer and are then pressed into the swingarm. That's all the parts there are to the rear swingarm. It's pretty simple.

[Chief]

Another shot of the parts.

[Chief]

This is where the swingarm bearings will be installed.

[Chief]

Here's where the pivot shaft sticks through to the left side of the transmission.

[Chief]

Here's the shaft installed.

[Chief]

Inner spacer (no bearing) installed on pivot shaft.

[Chief]

Here's the outer spacer slipped on.

[Chief]

And the rubber mount with optional Sta-Bo bushing (more on that one later too).

[Chief]

Ok, that's all good, but why is there so much talk about 'rear steer' or 'rear wobble' and all the other problems.

Here's the problem. This is how the swingarm pivot mounts into the rear of the frame. The rear of the engine, the swingarm and everything else is held into the frame with the big rubber mounts. That's it. There is no other mechanical connection between any of the drive train components at the rear of the motorcycle.

Looks kind of flimsy huh?

[Twolanerider]

Chuck's powder coated frame is home .

[Chief]

Here's a close-up of the left side.

So what's the problem and what's the solution?

The problem is very simple. When a sideways load is placed on the rear wheel, this force pushes the swingarm to the side and there is nothing but these big hunks of rubber to keep everything located properly. The rubber mounts flex and let the swingarm move side to side, causing rear steer.

The problem with the rubber mount rear end is the rubber mount itself. The big rubber donuts flex under load and allow the swingarm to move sideways when a sideways force is applied to the rear tire, like when you are in that sweeper at 80 mph.

How do you fix it? Simple. Come up with a way to keep the swingarm from moving side to side.

[Chief]

Here are some more shots of the rear pivot shaft in the frame notches.

[Chief]

Since the problem of rear steer is caused by lateral movement of the rear of the motor, I belive the simplest way to correct it is to prevent it at the source, the pivot shaft. This is why I chose the Sta-Bo bushings over all of the other stabilizer brackets out there.

Most people hear 'bushing' and think about bushings like those found in car suspension systems. These bushings are not designed to work that way at all. The Sta-Bo bushings are designed to stiffen the rubber mounts laterally and prevent the flex in those parts. The Sta-Bo bushings are the only product out there fixes the problem where it starts.

The Sta-Bo bushings work by providing a bearing surface to absorb the lateral forces produced by cornering loads and prevent the swingarm from moving sideways. The bushings simply fit inside the void of the rubber mount and rest against the metal plate in the bottom of the mount. The outer edge of the Sta-Bos rest against the inside of the swingarm pivot mounts. This effectively removes any sideways movement of the swingarm and the pivot shaft. Through all of this, the transmission isn't the problem, but is just going along for the ride.

Vibration. All of these devices that provide a more rigid connection between the swingarm and the frame increase the possibility of extra vibration. This is to be expected. By installing one of these devices, you're eliminating a mode of isolation by eliminating the movement of the rubber mount.

In the end, I feel the trade-off is worthwhile.

[Chief]

Chuck's powder coated frame is home .

Who spilled the beans?

[twojay]

Since the problem of rear steer is caused by lateral movement of the rear of the motor, I belive the simplest way to correct it is to prevent it at the source, the pivot shaft. This is why I chose to get the Sta-Bo bushings.

Most people hear 'bushing' and think about bushings like those found in car suspension systems. These bushings are not designed to work that way at all. The Sta-Bo bushings are designed to stiffen the rubber mounts laterally and prevent the flex in those parts. It is a very simple fix.

The Sta-Bo bushings work by providing a bearing surface to absorb the lateral forces produced by cornering loads and prevent the transmission from moving sideways. The bushings simply fit inside the void of the rubber mount and rest against the metal plate in the bottom of the mount. The outer edge of the Sta-Bos rest against the inside of the swingarm pivot mounts. This totally removes any sideplay. No sideplay means the transmission can't move sideways and the rear wheel stays inline with the front.

Vibration. All of these devices that provide a metal-to-metal connection between the transmission and the frame increase the possibility of extra vibration. This is to be expected. By installing one of these devices, you're eliminating a mode of isolation by eliminating the movement of the rubber mount.

In the end, I feel the trade-off is worthwhile.

Hey Chief, Glad to hear that you are happy with the new powder coating. Looks awesome to me. I have the sta-bo bushings and the tru track on my bike. I noticed the increase in vibration that you referred to here after installing the bushings and have considered removing them. With the tru track do you think that the sta bo bushings are needed? tia, jj. 

[Chief]

Hey Chief, Glad to hear that you are happy with the new powder coating. Looks awesome to me. I have the sta-bo bushings and the tru track on my bike. I noticed the increase in vibration that you referred to here after installing the bushings and have considered removing them. With the tru track do you think that the sta bo bushings are needed? tia, jj. 

Thanks John.

No, you don't need both. I feel the Sta-Bos are a more direct cure for the problem as they are best able to correct the problem at the source, the rubber mounts.

I understand a lot of people install both brackets AND bushings and are then dissatisfied with the results, normally due to the increased vibration. By not realizing that the stabilizer brackets and the Sta-Bos bushings are both trying to do the exact same thing, many people think if a bracket is good, better bushings, in the normal sense of bushings would help even more. I believe part of the problem is a misunderstanding of what the Sta-Bo bushings are, or more importantly, what they aren't.

Normally, we think of bushings as a cheap alternative to more expensive bearings. Cheap powertools use bushings while good ones use ball bearings, so bushings = cheap. This is what I thought before I looked into them.

If you think of Sta-Bo bushings as thrust bearings or thrust washers instead of standard axle bushings, you'll get it faster. The Sta-Bos stop the side to side motion of the swingarm by providing a semi-rigid load bearing surface to absorb the side loads from the swingarm and transfer them to the frame without flexing or deforming like the rubber mounts do.

I like the Sta-Bos because they stop the problem where it starts instead of relying on the transmission to solve a problem with the rubber motor mounts. The rear of the transmission wasn't designed to carry the horizontal swingarm loads so I'd like to keep it that way. The Sta-Bos are also only $100 which makes it a cheaper experiment than the bolt on stabilizers.

I realize I am putting myself in a position of possibly having to eat crow when this all goes back together and things don't work out as I hope. That's ok, crow ain't bad if you season it correctly.

[twojay]

Chief, Thanks for the response and thanks for posting all the detailed pics. They sure helped me in understanding the swingarm issue. As I stated before I have the true track and the sta bo bushings. I have an issue with each of them and was considering removing one if not both.  After installing the bushings the vibration increased, thus they were counter productive to some of the other mods. The true track causes a slight bit of instability when I raise my bike on my lift. Not a lot but just enough to make me a little nervous. Also have a couple of other concerns with it. Wonder how the swing arm fix of the week will work out? Oh well, time to do some real work. Thanks again and best of luck with your bike. I know it will be better than ever when you finish though the waiting is always a killer. jj

[Black Diamond]

Thanks for the great post. Lots of good info. By the way, what's up with flipping us the "finger" in reply 2? I thought we was all brother and sisters? LOL
JW

[Fired00d]

Thanks for the great post. Lots of good info. By the way, what's up with flipping us the "finger" in reply 2? I thought we was all brother and sisters? LOL
JW

I noticed that too.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Black Diamond]

I noticed because I see it so often! LOL  Must be my personality!

[Fired00d]

Chuck,
Thanks for the information/breakdown of this area.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Chief]

Chief, Thanks for the response and thanks for posting all the detailed pics. They sure helped me in understanding the swingarm issue. As I stated before I have the true track and the sta bo bushings. I have an issue with each of them and was considering removing one if not both.  After installing the bushings the vibration increased, thus they were counter productive to some of the other mods. The true track causes a slight bit of instability when I raise my bike on my lift. Not a lot but just enough to make me a little nervous. Also have a couple of other concerns with it. Wonder how the swing arm fix of the week will work out? Oh well, time to do some real work. Thanks again and best of luck with your bike. I know it will be better than ever when you finish though the waiting is always a killer. jj

John,

Your observation of increased vibration is a very common one. The manufacturer doesn't hide the fact that you will probably notice it but also states that the bushings have to seat in over 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Now, what really happens I don't know. Do they really seat in or do you just get used to it?

All of the brackets also have compromises, some with cornering clearances or problems with jacks and such as well as hooking into the transmission oil pan which I don't like. The Sta-Bos are the purest solution ot the problem, but the vibration issue needs to be addressed.

In general, I would believe that all of these items, brackets and bushings, will increase vibration. I don't see how they can do their job without transfering more vibration to the frame. You're eliminating some of the damping the rubber mounts provide which means more vibration get to the rider.

Everything I've done to improve the suspension on the bike has meant more 'feel' and less of that big cushy Buick ride. The bike is much closer to sports car handling than it ever was. Now, I can run over a quarter and tell you if it was heads or tails.  

[Chief]

Thanks for the great post. Lots of good info. By the way, what's up with flipping us the "finger" in reply 2? I thought we was all brother and sisters? LOL
JW

I had to take that picture three times to get it just right for y'all. It all started last year with Hoist and "Shrimp and Grits". Whenever we found "Shrimp and Grits" ona menu, a picture was taken pointing it out with a selective middle finger.

I was wondering when someone would comment on that.

[Chief]

Chuck,
Thanks for the information/breakdown of this area.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Unlike your rear end, mine has no titanium.

[Fired00d]

Unlike your rear end, mine has no titanium.

Nor stitches for the installation.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[ultrafxr]

Chuck, thanks so much for the lesson and the photos.  I've had my True Track installed since under 1k on my bike and truly could not and still cannot tell of any vibration at all.  Was not aware of the Sta-Bos at that time but still very satisfied with my TT.  Interested to see how you like the Sta-Bos when you get 'er on the road.

[Gecko]

Is the bushing installation a "Step A: remove swing arm" opperation, or is it done from the outside ends of the mounts?

[Chief]

Is the bushing installation a "Step A: remove swing arm" opperation, or is it done from the outside ends of the mounts?

No swingarm removal required. The swingarm mounting plates are removed, the bushings slipped in and the plate is replaced. If you don't have to get into removing the right-side muffler, it's probably a 10 minute job on each side. For the right side I understand you can swing the plate out of the way without having to remove the pipe which makes that side easier.

Good luck.

[porthole]

it's probably a 10 minute job on each side.

Are the holes in the bushings offset or is it just the picture (reply # 12)?

[porthole]

I realize I am putting myself in a position of possibly having to eat crow when this all goes back together and things don't work out as I hope.

Since Chuck did such a good job here, and caused some grief for some of us, I think that he should compensate all of us who have installed the Ride Str8 or Tru Track.

If we take some off for depreciation and average out the cost between the TT and RS at $300, less the $100 for the Sta-Bo's that means Chuck owes us each about $200.

And in all fairness, all though that benefit from his insight and go straight to the Sta-Bo will owe him $200. 

Chuck - PM me for my address 

[porthole]

Vibration is mentioned several times.

What is the the perceived vibration?
In the seat - pegs - bars?

Annoying or just noticeable?

[Chief]

Are the holes in the bushings offset or is it just the picture (reply # 12)?

The holes are offset to match the offset in the swingarm pivot bolt location in the rubber mounts.

[Chief]

Since Chuck did such a good job here, and caused some grief for some of us, I think that he should compensate all of us who have installed the Ride Str8 or Tru Track.

If we take some off for depreciation and average out the cost between the TT and RS at $300, less the $100 for the Sta-Bo's that means Chuck owes us each about $200.

And in all fairness, all though that benefit from his insight and go straight to the Sta-Bo will owe him $200. 

Chuck - PM me for my address 

How about all parties of the second group deliver said funds to all parties of the first group and all just agree to take said funds and throw big parties.

[porthole]

The holes are offset to match the offset in the swingarm pivot bolt location in the rubber mounts.

Haven't in there so I couldn't tell if it was the picture or the "way it works"

So, that leads to question #2, are they offset for alignment purposes, or is it a "fits one way only" thing.

BTW, that frame looks awesome, sucks that E-Glides didn't get the PC option.

[Chief]

Vibration is mentioned several times.

What is the the perceived vibration?
In the seat - pegs - bars?

Annoying or just noticeable?

I'd like to know this as well. The mfg. of the Sta-Bos admits that people have complained about it, but it lessens or goes away with mileage. They also reccomend loosening up the other mounts and running the bike to let it settle in, evidently in an attempt to eliminate and binding that may contribute to the vibration.

[miker]

When my ride-str8 was new, there was some vib through the floor boards at higher rpm's...not much but some.
It has calmed down now with around 3k on it.

[Chief]

Haven't in there so I couldn't tell if it was the picture or the "way it works"

So, that leads to question #2, are they offset for alignment purposes, or is it a "fits one way only" thing.

BTW, that frame looks awesome, sucks that E-Glides didn't get the PC option.

The big rubber mounts have a "U" shaped notch in them to align them with the knob on the swingarm brackets. You can see the notch in this picture.
(The offset of the pivot shaft hole is also visible.)
This notch goes in at about 12:00 position. In that case, the Sta-Bos will always go in one direction only.

I'll take some pics of the reinstall as this is one area that is the source of a lot of questions. It just seems like it is a crude way of setting up the vehicle alignment.

[Boatman]

I had no vibration with just the True Track.  I had the exhaust off and decided to add the Stabos (with the TT) as it was easy to do then and they weren't that much from Puzzled.  
I didn't have a vibration as much as it was a buzzing thru the floorboards and highway pegs at certain rpm's..  Only had the Stabos in about 50 miles and took them out and left the TT on and buzzing was gone thru the pegs and floorbooards .

If I did the Stabos again, I would do some sanding/polishing of the bushings and of the bracketry so they wouldn't be as tight.  

I just didn't want to put up with the buzz for 3,000 miles.

[hogasm]

On my 04 SEEG with the stock Dunlop tires, tour pack loaded down or no tour pack and a light bike..I had no problems what so ever.

Changed tires to a 18x4.25 rear with a 150 or a 160 tire....front 21x3.5 with a 120 tire, the problem with rear steer is horrible even going in a straight line.

Installed the Sta-Bo bushings and it took care of most of the problem in a straight line, but it is still there.

Re-installed the stock tires and there is a small amount of vibration in the floor boards. The bushings have been in for over 10,000 miles.

Re-installed the 18-21 set up and installed a new Alloy Art stabilizer. ALLIGNED THE DRIVETRAIN, Rode the bike yesterday for only 50 miles a nd the straight line rear steer was not there.

Will not get a chance to put many more miles on the scoot till we get to Daytona, and when I get back I will give more feedback.

From what I have experienced so far, I believe that the change in geometry of the bike with the different tire combinations is a huge contributing factor in rear steer. I am also curious as to how many are having this problem with just a change in tire manufacture. Is a sofler compound  tire making the bikes behave strangely. 

[Chief]

I had no vibration with just the True Track.  I had the exhaust off and decided to add the Stabos (with the TT) as it was easy to do then and they weren't that much from Puzzled.  
I didn't have a vibration as much as it was a buzzing thru the floorboards and highway pegs at certain rpm's..  Only had the Stabos in about 50 miles and took them out and left the TT on and buzzing was gone thru the pegs and floorbooards .

If I did the Stabos again, I would do some sanding/polishing of the bushings and of the bracketry so they wouldn't be as tight.  

I just didn't want to put up with the buzz for 3,000 miles.

I think that is very common when both brackets and Sta-Bos are used and I feel part of the reason is because it is not readily apparent that both the brackets and the bushings are attacking the same problem. People are essentially doubling up on the fix which leads to too much direct connection between the drivetrain and frame. The result is converting a rubber mount motor to a semi-rigid mount.

[Chief]

Re-installed the 18-21 set up and installed a new Alloy Art stabilizer. ALLIGNED THE DRIVETRAIN, Rode the bike yesterday for only 50 miles a nd the straight line rear steer was not there.

I think that is a very important point and is overlooked all too often. I'm in a situation that I'm starting from zero. New frame and new engine stabilizers. I can set the new stabilizers to match the stock isolaters in length for a starting point, but it's still a whole new ball game.

The method HD uses, referencing the pivot shaft to the swingarm brackets, just seems crude. The alignment with the front wheel needs to be considered, but doesn't seem to be part of the equation. I'll be digging into this deeper when I get to that point in a week or so.

[Hoist!]

I think that is very common when both brackets and Sta-Bos are used and I feel part of the reason is because it is not readily apparent that both the brackets and the bushings are attacking the same problem. People are essentially doubling up on the fix which leads to too much direct connection between the drivetrain and frame. The result is converting a rubber mount motor to a semi-rigid mount.

That's exactly what you're doing by using the Sta-Bos and the Velva touch Urethane front mount. Between those things and your Corbin seat, I hope you can sit in the saddle all day. You're in for a very stiff ride! I have these on my solo seat FXR style Pro Street, and would not want my Road Bike to ride like that. Great for a bar hopper and for racing. But not good for long road trips. It defeats the purpose of having a rubber-mounted drivetrain.

Hoist!

[hogasm]

I think that is a very important point and is overlooked all too often. I'm in a situation that I'm starting from zero. New frame and new engine stabilizers. I can set the new stabilizers to match the stock isolaters in length for a starting point, but it's still a whole new ball game.

The method HD uses, referencing the pivot shaft to the swingarm brackets, just seems crude. The alignment with the front wheel needs to be considered, but doesn't seem to be part of the equation. I'll be digging into this deeper when I get to that point in a week or so.

We used lasers to align the drive train. You have to make sure that the motor is centerlined in the frame. You must also make sure that the bars and fairing are also aligned. This can cause the air to not hit the bike straight on, which will cause rear steer while going in a straight line. This all takes time but when you are putting the bike together from scratch it wont be that hard. Just make sure that the bike is level on the lift and keep the bike immobile.

[Chief]

That's exactly what you're doing by using the Sta-Bos and the Velva touch Urethane front mount. Between those things and your Corbin seat, I hope you can sit in the saddle all day. You're in for a very stiff ride! I have these on my solo seat FXR style Pro Street, and would not want my Road Bike to ride like that. Great for a bar hopper and for racing. But not good for long road trips. It defeats the purpose of having a rubber-mounted drivetrain.

Hoist!

The VR front mount is still a question for sure. Hopefully the VR uerthane stabilizers will lessen the vibration the solid stabilizers transmitted to the frame. The Sta-Bos alone shouldn't increase the vibration any more than the TT or RS  would by themselves. How does yours ride with the TT installed?  I've also gone to urethane bushings in the bars which may transmit some additional vibes up them too, but then again the 575's are heavier which will tend to dampen that a bit. Lots of unknowns in the equation, so the end result won't be known until it's back on the road.

[Hoist!]

The VR front mount is still a question for sure. Hopefully the VR uerthane stabilizers will lessen the vibration the solid stabilizers transmitted to the frame. The Sta-Bos alone shouldn't increase the vibration any more than the TT or RS  would by themselves. How does yours ride with the TT installed?  I've also gone to urethane bushings in the bars which may transmit some additional vibes up them too, but then again the 575's are heavier which will tend to dampen that a bit. Lots of unknowns in the equation, so the end result won't be known until it's back on the road.

On the SERK, I have the TT, the urethane handlebar riser bushings, and the TT front motor mount, as well as the Velva Stabilizers. The SERK uses 17" wide rear and 18" front, radial tires too. Don't know the impact this wheel tire combo has on geometry. But this SERK is THE best riding FLH I've ever been on! Just ask Don what he thinks. It's my 5th RK, and 6th FLH overall, besides all those I've rented and ridden over the years. So whatever they did with this bike really works well.

Adding the TT, the AK, and the BT's really makes this bike feel like it on rails, while not undermining the ride quality at all. I love the way this bike rides and handles now! And I have no vibration whatsoever, even with the Performance FatCats!

Hoist!

[Chief]

On the SERK, I have the TT, the urethane handlebar riser bushings, and the TT front motor mount, as well as the Velva Stabilizers. The SERK uses 17" wide rear and 18" front, radial tires too. Don't know the impact this wheel tire combo has on geometry. But this SERK is THE best riding FLH I've ever been on! Just ask Don what he thinks. It's my 5th RK, and 6th FLH overall, besides all those I've rented and ridden over the years. So whatever they did with this bike really works well.

Adding the TT, the AK, and the BT's really makes this bike feel like it on rails, while not undermining the ride quality at all. I love the way this bike rides and handles now! And I have no vibration whatsoever, even with the Performance FatCats!

Hoist!

Sounds like the only real differences between our bikes is that you are using the TT bracket instead of the Sta-Bos and the TT front mount instead of the VR front mount. Why then would yours ride so great and mine will be so rough it's only good for a bar hopper?

[Hoist!]

Sounds like the only real differences between our bikes is that you are using the TT bracket instead of the Sta-Bos and the TT front mount instead of the VR front mount. Why then would yours ride so great and mine will be so rough it's only good for a bar hopper?

Never said rough. Said it would be stiff. My Pro Street rides like a solid mount, not a rubber mount.

The TT mount is rubber, not urethane. The rear bushings are intact with the TT, not stiffened with the Sta-Bo's. Major difference in vibration control. Changing the characteristics of the mounts definitely affects the ride. I only added a 3rd link stabilizer to the bike to limit lateral movement of the swingarm, not stiffened the swingarm bushings. I've always used the urethane riser bushings and had no adverse vibration in my handlebars from them. I don't like my bars sloppy like with the rubber riser bushings.

Hoist!
Hoist!

[Boatman]

With the following installed I am happy:

True Track-original design
Velve Ride front mount (don't have their stabilizers)
MOCO urethane handlebar bushings
ME880's
AK20's
Progressive 440's

The above works for me.

[Chief]

Never said rough. Said it would be stiff. My Pro Street rides like a solid mount, not a rubber mount.

The TT mount is rubber, not urethane. The rear bushings are intact with the TT, not stiffened with the Sta-Bo's. Major difference in vibration control. Changing the characteristics of the mounts definitely affects the ride. I only added a 3rd link stabilizer to the bike to limit lateral movement of the swingarm, not stiffened the swingarm bushings. I've always used the urethane riser bushings and had no adverse vibration in my handlebars from them. I don't like my bars sloppy like with the rubber riser bushings.

Hoist!
Hoist!

I'm confused what rear bushings you're refering to. The Sta-Bos are installed outboard of the swingarm and are loosely inserted into the rubber mounts. The bushings are bored out much larger than the pivot shaft and actually slip on over the nut on the shaft so they don't support any load perpendicualr to the shaft, only parallel to it. They're loaded in compression between the metal plate in the back of the rubber mount and the swingarm support plate. I can only see one load path, lateral, just like the brackets.

To me, they all do the same thing, at least in theory.

[Hoist!]

I'm confused what rear bushings you're refering to. The Sta-Bos are installed outboard of the swingarm and are loosely inserted into the rubber mounts. The bushings are bored out much larger than the pivot shaft and actually slip on over the nut on the shaft so they don't support any load perpendicualr to the shaft, only parallel to it. They're loaded in compression between the metal plate in the back of the rubber mount and the swingarm support plate. I can only see one load path, lateral, just like the brackets.

To me, they all do the same thing, at least in theory.

I only assumed they limit the rear bushings by inserting them. I don't use them. But if they don't change the rubber vibration absorption characteristics, then I guess you won't get the stiffness I thought you would. I saw no other reason for added vibration when some people used them and the TT. 2 lateral limiting devices shouldn't add vibration. The Sta-Bo's must stiffen something by stuffing them in there.

Hoist!

[Chief]

I only assumed they limit the rear bushings by inserting them. I don't use them. But if they don't change the rubber vibration absorption characteristics, then I guess you won't get the stiffness I thought you would. I saw no other reason for added vibration when some people used them and the TT. 2 lateral limiting devices shouldn't add vibration. The Sta-Bo's must stiffen something by stuffing them in there.

Hoist!

I hear what you're saying and I think you hear the statements about vibration when they first go in. The mfgr even admits it will happen and says ride it 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Either you accept is as normal after those miles and you no longer object to it, or they actually do wear in. We'll see I'll give them a go and ride them on the DC ride. When we get back I plan on pulling them and going for a ride to see if I can tell if vibes drop off. It will be a good experiment.

Who knows, I may end up with a bracket. I'm cool with admitting they didn't work if they don't. I just don't want to start off with one.

[Gecko]

I think there may be more to the tires in this equation.  My '07 SERK has radials and I've never experienced anything that could be identified as "rear steer" whether in a straight line (hands off the bars) or any type of curve.  Maybe that comes later as the parts wear a bit.  My neigbhor has an '07 RG with stock bias Dunlops and after riding mine once he said he should think about getting radials if they make that much difference.  He said mine handled much better than his.  I have to agree with what others have said, at anything above 10 mph this is the best-handling large bike I've ridden.

[ultrafxr]

The VR front mount is still a question for sure. Hopefully the VR uerthane stabilizers will lessen the vibration the solid stabilizers transmitted to the frame. The Sta-Bos alone shouldn't increase the vibration any more than the TT or RS  would by themselves. How does yours ride with the TT installed?  I've also gone to urethane bushings in the bars which may transmit some additional vibes up them too, but then again the 575's are heavier which will tend to dampen that a bit. Lots of unknowns in the equation, so the end result won't be known until it's back on the road.

Chuck, I also installed those bushings with my WO 575s and can tell you that I cannot detect any vibration in the 2.5k I ridden it.  BTY you'll really like the 575s.

[Chief]

I hear what you're saying and I think you hear the statements about vibration when they first go in. The mfg even admits it will happen and says ride it 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Either you accept is as normal after those miles and you no longer object to it, or they actually do wear in. We'll see I'll give them a go and ride them on the DC ride. When we get back I plan on pulling them and going for a ride to see if I can tell if vibes drop off. It will be a good experiment.

Who knows, I may end up with a bracket. I'm cool with admitting they didn't work if they don't. I just don't want to start off with one.

Well, the 900 miles I've put on the bike with the Sta-Bos in has led me to the conclusion that they were the root cause of my vibration.

Why? It looks like there is just too much inward pressure from the swingarm brackets. They really get squeezed in there and it just takes all of the freedom of movement out of the rubber donuts. It would be great if they could perform their intended function, but still allow the donuts to absorb the up, down, forward and back motion.

Maybe it they were a bit shorter so the clamping load weren't as great they'd work better. I may try that as all I want them to do is to come into play to prevent the swingarm from moving sideways. As long as they can make contact to prevent that, they shouldn't need so much pre-load that everything gets locked down into rigid mode.

So, chapter one closes out with the Sta-Bos sitting on the shelf and the bike riding smooth once more.

[vagabond6542]

Well, the 900 miles I've put on the bike with the Sta-Bos in has led me to the conclusion that they were the root cause of my vibration.

Why? It looks like there is just too much inward pressure from the swingarm brackets. They really get squeezed in there and it just takes all of the freedom of movement out of the rubber donuts. It would be great if they could perform their intended function, but still allow the donuts to absorb the up, down, forward and back motion.

Maybe it they were a bit shorter so the clamping load weren't as great they'd work better. I may try that as all I want them to do is to come into play to prevent the swingarm from moving sideways. As long as they can make contact to prevent that, they shouldn't need so much pre-load that everything gets locked down into rigid mode.

So, chapter one closes out with the Sta-Bos sitting on the shelf and the bike riding smooth once more.

So what is the answer to lateral motion?

[Hoist!]

So what is the answer to lateral motion?

Same as always, TrueTrack!

Hoist!

[Chief]

So what is the answer to lateral motion?

George,

There are numerous manufacturers out there with bolt-on appliances. They all do the same thing in almost the same way. All have drawbacks, none are perfect.

Right now, I'm going without anything. The bike rode great before and it rides great now. If down the road I have a problem then I'll do something about it then.

[vagabond6542]

George,

There are numerous manufacturers out there with bolt-on appliances. They all do the same thing in almost the same way. All have drawbacks, none are perfect.

Right now, I'm going without anything. The bike rode great before and it rides great now. If down the road I have a problem then I'll do something about it then.

Would appreciate an update when you do.

[miker]

Is the bike lowered Chuck?  Thats was the biggest difference I noted on the serk vs my 03 flhr...Didn't really feel any bad r/s on the 03 but the lowered serk was rather mushy on highway exits....But I put the ride-Str8 AND 440's on, who knows what helped what.  Shuldn't changed variables 2 at a time!   

[vagabond6542]

Is the bike lowered Chuck?  Thats was the biggest difference I noted on the serk vs my 03 flhr...Didn't really feel any bad r/s on the 03 but the lowered serk was rather mushy on highway exits....But I put the ride-Str8 AND 440's on, who knows what helped what.  Shuldn't changed variables 2 at a time!   

On the bike being lower, Chuck had an opportunity to ride a lowered SMURF, he could tell you the difference.

[Chief]

Is the bike lowered Chuck?  Thats was the biggest difference I noted on the serk vs my 03 flhr...Didn't really feel any bad r/s on the 03 but the lowered serk was rather mushy on highway exits....But I put the ride-Str8 AND 440's on, who knows what helped what.  Shuldn't changed variables 2 at a time!   

Mike,

The bike is std height and I have no complaints about how it rides. Wobbled once before at 80+, but thats it. Since it was torn down and stabilizers were the talk of the town, I decided to experiment with the Sta-Bos.

I'll look deeper and harder if a more consistent problem presents itself but for right now, no stabilizer for me.

[Chief]

On the bike being lower, Chuck had an opportunity to ride a lowered SMURF, he could tell you the difference.

As far as rear steer, it's most noticeable at freeway speeds in sweeping turns, not just riding around.

[vagabond6542]

As far as rear steer, it's most noticeable at freeway speeds in sweeping turns, not just riding around.

I didn't notice that kind of problem, but then I only go 65 to 75 down the highway. She's pretty stable.

[vagabond6542]

Do you have a picture of the Sta bo?

[Chief]

Do you have a picture of the Sta bo?

Sure,

The Sta-Bos are the white pieces stuck inside the rubber mounts.






Some from the mtg. web site. (Ignore the Sta-Bo I and Sta-Bo III. Only the Sta-Bo II apply to our bikes.)

[vagabond6542]

Sure,

The Sta-Bos are the white pieces stuck inside the rubber mounts.






Some from the mtg. web site. (Ignore the Sta-Bo I and Sta-Bo III. Only the Sta-Bo II apply to our bikes.)

I can see where the vibration is coming in to the bike.
It's called metal vibration transmission. The Sta-Bo help to transmit the vibration to the frame.

[Chief]

I can see where the vibration is coming in to the bike.
It's called metal vibration transmission. The Sta-Bo help to transmit the vibration to the frame.

Expected some, got more than I wanted. Punt.

[miker]

Thats what I was kinda gettin at..Std ht seemed pretty good without help.

Try the Smurf fast long in a corner.  Maybe you will find some.
I found it in highway exits...
It happened before the usual scrape...the scrape was not the nice smooth "grrrrrrr" it was hoppy too.
440's and swingarm device (I am not sure of which)
or(whatever you choose) made it better on this serk...

Probably riding slower is cheapest!

[naitram]

Chief,

could the thicknes of the powder coat be a factor in you case?

[hogasm]

Chief, Where is your bearing...don't see it in the pics

[Chief]

Chief,

could the thicknes of the powder coat be a factor in you case?

Don't think so Neal. The OEM parts are powder coated too. I think the problem is the huge amount of compression that goes on when the swingarm brackets are installed. The Sta-Bos are actually locked in very tightly when the brackets are installed. I'm thinking I'll plane off some material on the outer edge to reduce the pre-load. All I want them to do is to prevent the deflection that would lead to a steering phenomenon. If I could get the bushings to go in and just touch lightly, that should be enough to hold it neutral.

Nothing to lose now, so I can experiment at will.

[Chief]

Chief, Where is your bearing...don't see it in the pics

I was replacing them and at the time of the pictures they hadn't arrived. I installed them, promise.

[Twolanerider]

Don't think so Neal. The OEM parts are powder coated too. I think the problem is the huge amount of compression that goes on when the swingarm brackets are installed. The Sta-Bos are actually locked in very tightly when the brackets are installed. I'm thinking I'll plane off some material on the outer edge to reduce the pre-load. All I want them to do is to prevent the deflection that would lead to a steering phenomenon. If I could get the bushings to go in and just touch lightly, that should be enough to hold it neutral.

Nothing to lose now, so I can experiment at will.

Chuck, mine installed much closer to how you describe you wished yours would be.  They touch.  Just barely more than lightly.   But that's all.  And I still noticed some stiffening in the rear as a positive byproduct of their installation but without the vibration that others have encountered.

[Chief]

Chuck, mine installed much closer to how you describe you wished yours would be.  They touch.  Just barely more than lightly.   But that's all.  And I still noticed some stiffening in the rear as a positive byproduct of their installation but without the vibration that others have encountered.

Interesting. Mine have pretty good depressions in the outer edges from contact pressure.

[chance01]

Chuck, I've read this thread with interest and now I'm wondering since it's been over 6 months and a full riding season have you any new advice for someone thinking of adding a stabilizer system.

I'm hoping to do something this spring. I had been sure I was going to install the Sta-Bo system but after reading this thread I'm not so sure.

Thanks for the detailed posts in this thread,

Bert

[Admiral]

Chuck, I've read this thread with interest and now I'm wondering since it's been over 6 months and a full riding season have you any new advice for someone thinking of adding a stabilizer system.

I'm hoping to do something this spring. I had been sure I was going to install the Sta-Bo system but after reading this thread I'm not so sure.

Thanks for the detailed posts in this thread,

Bert

Welcome from Texas                                                      

Go to New Member Section tell us about your self and post some more pictures of your bike

[Bagger]

Sta-Bo has changed the composite of the bushings.

http://sta-bo.com/
http://sta-bo.com/db3/00241/sta-bo.com/_uimages/ad.jpg