Harley Wobble Suit Settled

[Chief]

Got this link in an email.

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/tuesday/city_state/story/1094197.html

[outrider]

It's a sad thing about the cop who died and I feel for the family, but I've never ridden a big Harley that didn't wobble at high speed with a little sideways G applied...It's what they do. They are not made for high speed pursuits. My dad is 73 and rode police electroglides back in the 60's, and he says it was so even back then...
I don't know what to make of this article...it says they settled...it doesn't say Harley admitted any fault.  It would make more sense to me that the Mo Co (and the dealer) settled as a PR move to help the family of the fallen cop, and that's commendable

[hard10]

It's a sad thing about the cop who died and I feel for the family, but I've never ridden a big Harley that didn't wobble at high speed with a little sideways G applied...It's what they do. They are not made for high speed pursuits. My dad is 73 and rode police electroglides back in the 60's, and he says it was so even back then...
I don't know what to make of this article...it says they settled...it doesn't say Harley admitted any fault.  It would make more sense to me that the Mo Co (and the dealer) settled as a PR move to help the family of the fallen cop, and that's commendable

Randy, not to make light of the situation, but they do wobble even more when you use them for bumper-bikes.

[cuthbertss]

I hate to see any LOD Death....  and these articles are sufficiently vague that its easy to second guess and be wrong...

pursuits are crazy dangerous in a cage....   wouldnt even think about it on a bike....

my guess is this wasnt a "chase" as they call it...  just catch up speed..

either way..very sad

[outrider]

Randy, not to make light of the situation, but they do wobble even more when you use them for bumper-bikes.

It's a 7 year old lawsuit my brother, sufficient time has past, so"making light" in good taste should not be an issue, and don't knock bumper bikes until you've...naw I won't go there on this thread...have a great day!

[hard10]

It's a 7 year old lawsuit my brother, sufficient time has past, so"making light" in good taste should not be an issue, and don't knock bumper bikes until you've...naw I won't go there on this thread...have a great day!

I know...just don't fall asleep at the wheel handlebar!

[Chief]

I know...just don't fall asleep at the wheel handlebar!

Ever closed your eyes while riding or driving, just for a second or two, because you thought it might help?

[grc]

It's a sad thing about the cop who died and I feel for the family, but I've never ridden a big Harley that didn't wobble at high speed with a little sideways G applied...It's what they do. They are not made for high speed pursuits. My dad is 73 and rode police electroglides back in the 60's, and he says it was so even back then...
I don't know what to make of this article...it says they settled...it doesn't say Harley admitted any fault.  It would make more sense to me that the Mo Co (and the dealer) settled as a PR move to help the family of the fallen cop, and that's commendable

Now that is an interpretation I've never seen before, a manufacturer and dealer handing out money just to help the family of a fallen cop.  Come on, take the rose colored glasses off and join the real world.  If that was the intent, why make the family fight for six years first?  These lawsuits have been going on for decades, and the reason you don't know much about them is that H-D settles without admitting fault and requires a nondisclosure agreement as part of the settlement.  In other words, run your mouth about the settlement, lose the money. 

The entire idea behind settling is to not have an independent assignment of blame on the record.  That way H-D can continue to pretend there is no handling issue with their Touring models.  If there ever were an independent determination of a defect that stood up in court, the cost to the MoCo in future lawsuits and in possible recall actions would be astronomical.  So far, for whatever reason, no one has invested the time, money, and engineering talent to prove beyond doubt that the design defect exists.

When you read the article, look at the statement about the restriction the Raleigh P.D. placed on the bikes after the incident (and which remains in effect to this day); officers no longer are allowed to patrol on the interstates on the Harley's.  I guess if you want to be a full function motor cop, rather than just a parade marshall, you have to move to CA where they have BMW's.  Now that is one hell of an advertisement for the MoCo.

Jerry

[pjpork]

 What can be done about Wobble ?

[bbrown]

buy a road glide

[pete_4854]

What can be done about Wobble ?

Buy a BMW!  Joking aside, there are devices members of this site have installed that have helped or eliminated wobble.  Do a search on true track.  Some of us do not have a wobble problem at high speed, some do, there are lots of factors involved (i.e. rear wheel alignment, swing arm bushings, neck bushings, aerodynamic influences on fairings, etc, etc.).  I once told my mechanic that I thought I was getting a wobble at 100 mph in long sweeping turns and he recommended I consider slowing down, which is probably the best advice.  Can't do it though

[RedFXR2]

I once told my mechanic that I thought I was getting a wobble at 100 mph in long sweeping turns and he recommended I consider slowing down, which is probably the best advice.

It probably really is the best advice.  I would guess that HD could successfully argue in court that no, their Electra Glide is not engineered for stability at speeds in excess of 100 mph through long sweeping turns.  Nor should it have to be.  I'm sure that the MoCo doesn't want to do that though, for marketing reasons.

Look at it this way:  If you (not you Pete, but anyone) drove a Cadillac Escalade 100 MPH through a long sweeping turn on a public highway and it got unstable, would you take it to the dealer and claim that something is wrong with it?  Or would you know that it wasn't intended for such performance?

There's a reason that no Electra Glides are competing in Moto Grand Prix and Superbike races.  Now those bikes are intended for high speed, long sweeping turns.  Completely different engineering.

[pjpork]

Thanks, I brought the bike to the dealer and the sm said about the same thing, The bike wasn't designed to go that fast, that's when I showed him the speedometer suggesting they may have wasted some space there with all those numbers. What happened was as I was decelerating Wobble started at about a 100. Stoped before 90. I recall another incedent riding an 06 seuc but Wobble didn't happen until 113, that took me by suprise. By the way is anyone interested in buying a brown 06 seuc seat. (cheap)

[outrider]

Now that is an interpretation I've never seen before, a manufacturer and dealer handing out money just to help the family of a fallen cop.  Come on, take the rose colored glasses off and join the real world.  If that was the intent, why make the family fight for six years first?  These lawsuits have been going on for decades, and the reason you don't know much about them is that H-D settles without admitting fault and requires a nondisclosure agreement as part of the settlement.   In other words, run your mouth about the settlement, lose the money. 

The entire idea behind settling is to not have an independent assignment of blame on the record.  That way H-D can continue to pretend there is no handling issue with their Touring models.  If there ever were an independent determination of a defect that stood up in court, the cost to the Mo Co in future lawsuits and in possible recall actions would be astronomical.  So far, for whatever reason, no one has invested the time, money, and engineering talent to prove beyond doubt that the design defect exists.

When you read the article, look at the statement about the restriction the Raleigh P.D. placed on the bikes after the incident (and which remains in effect to this day); officers no longer are allowed to patrol on the interstates on the Harley's.  I guess if you want to be a full function motor cop, rather than just a parade marshall, you have to move to CA where they have BMW's.  Now that is one hell of an advertisement for the Mo Co.

Jerry

Jerry...sorry if I was misunderstood...I did not mean to imply that the Mo Co and the dealer are settling to create a public relations lovefest or anything. Furthermore, I interpret the 7 year wait to be a technique used in alot of lawsuits involving big businesses. The Company sequesters the funds they feel they will loose if the trial goes south on them in some type of interest bearing do-hickey. Then they slug out the preliminaries with the plaintiff...inflicting as much red tape on the case as they may, dragging it out... Just prior to trial, they (basically) try to settle for the interest they earned on the original sum, minus (of course a few legal fees), and often do not have to admit guilt...It costs them very little if done right
The public relations I refer to, is that there is still a PD motor unit that will continue to purchase or lease Wheels from someone. The Mo Co and this dealer probably still want that to be their job...Public relations may come from articles written about this type of thing, but the Mo Co hedges their bet, and other (PDs) consumers read it how its written up
The truth about the wobble whether real or perceived rarely matters if these things actually go to trial, and the companies know it... the outcome of a trial to the Mo Co could very well be a lose/lose situation. If they win the trial and pay nothing they still have an angry PD cycle unit who will certainly let others know (probably hurts their sales numbers more than just this PD) , a distraught widow (and the "bad press" that will garner), and they still have legal fees (cause nobody is going after a police widow for legal fees). If they loose the trial they pay the large number for this trial, and (in this case, more than likely) start a chain reaction of similar lawsuits which would be really really bad. This is just my impression of this suit, and the distance between it and the truth in this case is the same regardless of the color of my lenses... -Randy

[spydglide]

but Wobble didn't happen until 113, that took me by suprise. By the way is anyone interested in buying a brown 06 seuc seat. (cheap)

Now, that's going to be a hard one to sell, PJ.  har!  spyder

[Hobo]

buy a road glide

I wish that was the anwser.I know for a fact that a SERG will get the wobble in the right situation.

Hobo

[grc]

It probably really is the best advice.  I would guess that HD could successfully argue in court that no, their Electra Glide is not engineered for stability at speeds in excess of 100 mph through long sweeping turns.  Nor should it have to be.  I'm sure that the MoCo doesn't want to do that though, for marketing reasons.

Look at it this way:  If you (not you Pete, but anyone) drove a Cadillac Escalade 100 MPH through a long sweeping turn on a public highway and it got unstable, would you take it to the dealer and claim that something is wrong with it?  Or would you know that it wasn't intended for such performance?
There's a reason that no Electra Glides are competing in Moto Grand Prix and Superbike races.  Now those bikes are intended for high speed, long sweeping turns.  Completely different engineering.

Automotive customers not only bring their vehicles in with those kinds of complaints, lots of them also win lawsuits.  The logic goes something like this; if you make and sell a product that is capable of 130 mph, then you must assure that it will do so without unreasonable risk to life and limb. 

Electra Glides are definitely not racing bikes, but the fact is they are capable of speeds well in excess of those necessary to generate the "wobble".  Mine has done it at 80 in a long sweeper, and that is definitely a speed that fits into the normal category these days.  Hell, it's even legal in some states.  If the answer is to always ride at lower speeds, then I fail to see the need for larger and more powerful engines.  Perhaps the MoCo should bring back a 1979 era engine to go along with their 1979 era frame.

Jerry