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[Majorrocky]

I recently dropped my '08 SERK at the local dealer to have some passing lamps installed, turn signals relocated, etc.  While I was there I made the statement that if there were any downloads available for this bike to go ahead and take care of it.  One of the mechanics at the same dealer had mentioned several weeks ago that there was one available that would fix a problem that I had experienced (if you cut the bike of with the ignition switch first instead of the run / off switch on the handlebars there is a possiblity that the throttle by wire (?) may not have time to set the idle all the way down and when you crank it back up it runs at a constant high idle, requiring some magic combination of the ignition switch and run / off buttons to reset it). 

Anyway, I digress... when I picked the bike up today I was told that there was indeed a "chargeable" code download available and that they had performed the update.  I didn't catch the word "chargeable" until I went to pay the bill and even then it didn't really sink in.



I now wonder if I just got taken to the cleaners...  The charge for that update was $149.95 (give or take with labor & local shop discounts, taxes, etc.).  The charge code on the invoice was 33237-08C/DT.

Can anyone explain to me exactly what that update was / what it does and more importantly why I should have to pay $149.95 for a system update on a bike that I've had less than 9 months and has only a little over 3K miles on it?  If there's a reason then so be it, I'd just like to understand it a little better.

I work in the I.T. field and when there's a system update available to fix issues with a computer it is generally made available for free.  I'm gathering that's not the case with bikes?   

Any insight anyone could provide me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Major

Ride On

[rbaker]

I recently dropped my '08 SERK at the local dealer to have some passing lamps installed, turn signals relocated, etc.  While I was there I made the statement that if there were any downloads available for this bike to go ahead and take care of it.  One of the mechanics at the same dealer had mentioned several weeks ago that there was one available that would fix a problem that I had experienced (if you cut the bike of with the ignition switch first instead of the run / off switch on the handlebars there is a possiblity that the throttle by wire (?) may not have time to set the idle all the way down and when you crank it back up it runs at a constant high idle, requiring some magic combination of the ignition switch and run / off buttons to reset it). 

Anyway, I digress... when I picked the bike up today I was told that there was indeed a "chargeable" code download available and that they had performed the update.  I didn't catch the word "chargeable" until I went to pay the bill and even then it didn't really sink in.



I now wonder if I just got taken to the cleaners...  The charge for that update was $149.95 (give or take with labor & local shop discounts, taxes, etc.).  The charge code on the invoice was 33237-08C/DT.

Can anyone explain to me exactly what that update was / what it does and more importantly why I should have to pay $149.95 for a system update on a bike that I've had less than 9 months and has only a little over 3K miles on it?  If there's a reason then so be it, I'd just like to understand it a little better.

I work in the I.T. field and when there's a system update available to fix issues with a computer it is generally made available for free.  I'm gathering that's not the case with bikes?   

Any insight anyone could provide me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Major

Ride On

I had them remove the parade mode as I felt it was unsafe. When i asked them to do it, the first thing out of their mouth was '$350.00"
I told them (dealer) that on the Harley Davidson Web site it states a one time "FREE" download to remove that feature.
After I talked with the General Manager he then talked to the Service Manager and they completed it at "no Charge".
You might check the website also and maybe could find more about your download.
Good luck and you know everyone on this site will be watching and giving you some expert advice.
 

[Crusty]

Google hit on a couple of dealers listing it as "110 CVO TOURING DIGITAL TECH"

http://www.chester-harley-davidson.co.uk/parts-index-display/HD-33237-08C/DT.php

http://adventureharleydavidson.com/webstore/doexpandsearch.asp?keywords=touring

They both charged for it... seems like if there is a lgitch in the firmware, they'd fix it under warranty. 

[Gone Fishin']

Now, what is a 110 CVO TOURING DIGITAL TECH ??

If anyone could explain ...

Ride safely,
Louis

[LarryB]

major, was this at Bumpus?

[Majorrocky]

Yup... Bumpus C'ville.

For clarity and while I'm at it... those guys have been really good to me so I don't think they schlepped me... As referenced a couple of threads up, I did find this part number on a couple of searches and it looks like Harley themselves charge for it.  I just don't understand what it does...

The only thing that I wish the Bumpus guys had done was told me what it was going to cost before they did it... but, I didn't make a distinction when I asked for it to be done.

[grc]

The best way to resolve this is to call H-D customer disservice and flat ask them what that calibration download does, and why you were charged for it.  If the dealership was really stand-up, you would assume they would have explained exactly what it was and they would have verified you wanted it at your expense before they did it.  The fact that you are asking us rather than them makes me believe you don't really trust them.  I'm shocked! (not)

The ECM calibration changes for emissions and driveability problems, or the issue with the electronic throttle, are made at no charge.  Calibrations such as those made for performance upgrades are normally at customer expense, and the going rate over the years has been $149.95 or thereabouts.  I kind of wonder if that one you mentioned is related to one of the street legal kits.  Anyhow, one of the guys on the site who works at/with a dealer will probably be able to look it up and tell you exactly what it is if your dealer won't do so.

It tends to be an expensive lesson, but now you know to never give a Harley dealership a "blank check" to do work without a definite approval. 

Jerry

[djkak]

As I understand it, the 33237-08C/DT ECM download serves two applications. The first is the Stock OE for the 2008 SERK and SEUC; in this application the download is not chargeable. The second application is for the 1800 CVO Stage 1 Touring; in this application the download is chargeable.

The Digital Tech polls the ECM to determine whether the application is chargeable or not. In your case, it is possible that there is a glitch. I speculate that it is also possible that the DT may have detected an ECM modification such as a tuner and flagged the download as chargeable; I’m just guessing at this point. The fact that this download is either changeable or not depending on the application leads me to believe that there may be something to the ECM modification theory.

I wouldn’t bother calling H-D, give Bumpus a call, I’m sure that they will straighten things out for you. At the very least you should find out why the download was chargeable then let us know.

[Twolanerider]

As I understand it, the 33237-08C/DT ECM download serves two applications. The first is the Stock OE for the 2008 SERK and SEUC; in this application the download is not chargeable. The second application is for the 1800 CVO Stage 1 Touring; in this application the download is chargeable.

The Digital Tech polls the ECM to determine whether the application is chargeable or not. In your case, it is possible that there is a glitch. I speculate that it is also possible that the DT may have detected an ECM modification such as a tuner and flagged the download as chargeable; I’m just guessing at this point. The fact that this download is either changeable or not depending on the application leads me to believe that there may be something to the ECM modification theory.

I wouldn’t bother calling H-D, give Bumpus a call, I’m sure that they will straighten things out for you. At the very least you should find out why the download was chargeable then let us know.

DJ, a couple of "if's" to consider.  If this download was in fact a map at all different from OE and if there had been any modification (i.e., retune) after initial delivery did this new update just screw the proverbial pooch for anything later that had been done?

[Majorrocky]

Calling Bumpus is the next step.  Would have already done that if it weren't for this pain in the tail thing called "work" that has taken up most of my day.

Thanks for the input as it lends good insight.

I do however want to clarify that I definitely don't have trust issues with Bumpus (yet).  In this situation they definitely should have explained and I definitely should have asked.  The problem was that it didn't really hit me until well after business hours and I figured that before I went in there half-cocked questioning their practices I should at least get a little bit of information first.

This forum has been great for getting real answers on stuff like this and with your help, that goal has been attained.  I do appreciate it.

 

I'll let you know what I find out.

Ride On

[djkak]

DJ, a couple of "if's" to consider.  If this download was in fact a map at all different from OE and if there had been any modification (i.e., retune) after initial delivery did this new update just screw the proverbial pooch for anything later that had been done?

I am 99.9% certain that the 33237-08C/DT is the “latest” OE base map for the ’08 SERK. At this point I don’t know if a revised base map will overwrite anything added later or not; e.g. if the machine has been flashed with a street legal Heavy Breather download. My guess is that the reflash will take care of enhancements to the base map, like calming down the TBW high idle issues and will not affect the Heavy Breather reflash. In the past I have been known to end up on the wrong end of an assumption, so don’t take this to the bank just yet.

[Majorrocky]

Ok, folks.  Here's what I've found out...

This download is to correct a throttle response issue.  For those of you with this bike (and presumably others of the same ilk) you may have noticed that when you take off there's a little "burp" or "sneeze" if you will and the throttle response may be a little slow.

I have noticed that before but having no frame of reference just chalked it up to "that's the way it is" with this bike and the electronic throttle.  Well, this download fixes that.  I haven't verified any difference as I only rode it home afterwards (3 miles) and didn't know to pay attention to it.

I called Bumpus and they explained all of that to me but could not explain why it was a chargeable item. 

So, I called HD Customer Service and it turns out that on the CVOs downloads of this nature are chargeable post-warranty.    However, mine is still well under warranty so it should have been covered and I should not have been charged.

HDCustSvc is going to call the dealer and presumably the dealer will give me my money back... 

So... be advised... if you're creeping up on that warranty expiration date, drop by the dealer and check for any available downloads lest it cost ye big bucks after the fact... 

[djkak]

Ok, folks.  Here's what I've found out.......So, I called HD Customer Service and it turns out that on the CVOs downloads of this nature are chargeable post-warranty.    However, mine is still well under warranty so it should have been covered and I should not have been charged. ..........

So... be advised... if you're creeping up on that warranty expiration date, drop by the dealer and check for any available downloads lest it cost ye big bucks after the fact... 

That is good info, thanks for the update. 

[Boatman]

That is good info, thanks for the update. 

Rocky should not have been charged to make his bike run as it should.  Sounds like he is going to get it worked out.

[djkak]

Rocky should not have been charged to make his bike run as it should.  Sounds like he is going to get it worked out.

Yes it does, and that is good. I’m still left hanging just a little, though. The service tool (Digital Tech) determines which downloads are available for a specific application and which are chargeable; the user cannot toggle the chargeable status. If the machine is flashed with a chargeable download, the Dealer is billed automatically. If the charge to the Dealer is legitimate, it would be up to the Dealer to eat the download if it made sense to do so. Technician’s flash ECM’s with chargeable downloads daily, so that in itself is not unusual.

It seems that there is a piece of this puzzle that is still missing. The Digital Tech is either not capable of determining the chargeable status of this specific download, or there is some other unknown condition that toggled the status to chargeable. The response from Customer Service makes sense but considering that Rocky’s machine is still “well under warranty”, I would be more interested in a response from Tech Support, but thoroughly satisfied with a refund.

There is extra credit in this for you if you can manage to drill down to the root cause of the issue. The refund really takes care of things for you, but if the folks are gracious enough to indulge you, why not probe for the details.