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Author Topic: HD down load  (Read 1496 times)

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dep47

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HD down load
« on: April 16, 2010, 03:48:30 PM »

I have read many post here, but have not see whee anyone has done the HD stage one down load.  I have the 010 Ultra CVO and the dealer tells me that if I just change the AC and remove the cat they can do the stage one down load and all will work fine and not run to lean.  Has anyone done this?  I had good success with the stage one down load on my 09 Ultra and would like to start out doing the same on my CVO. 
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Diamondback

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 04:10:58 PM »

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

I have not but one of my buddies with a 09 CVO "did" just what you say.

One thing for sure, the dealer via HD can for sure do it if they don't get into trouble with the EPA.

I had a Stage 1 and a D&D 2-1 that I had to buy the Zippers TMAT for because the HD didn't have a download (or so they said).  Suprise, suprise, I traded the bike in on my 09  CVO and magically the TMAT was gone the original ECM installed and a new download was installed.  Bike ran fine and they sold it that way.

Go figure.  It would make sense that HD has lot's of maps that work great but they are reluctant to install them because of EPA rules (big fines) for someone like HD.

 :coolblue:
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2010 FXDFSE2 CVO Fat Bob, V&H staggers, Windshield, saddle bags, passenger back rest. 

2011 CVO Ultra Glide, Progressive Monotubes, Ultra 944's, Power Vision, ceramic headpipes, Cellset, Cee Baileys 15" and Fullsac 1.75"
Former 2009 SE Ultra, Rineharts, Stage I, PC V with autotune non cat header pipe
Former 2007 SE Ultra, D&D, Stage I, TMAT Metzlers
Former 2006 Dragonfly Ultra
Former 1999 Road King

grc

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 05:02:36 PM »


I have no idea what "Stage 1" download that dealership person is talking about, since the CVO's are already "Stage 1" straight from the factory.  Make sure you verify what this person is telling you; he may be uninformed, or even setting you up to pay $150 for a nonexistant download.  And the fact that he is talking to you about eliminating the catalytic converter isn't exactly confidence inspiring, since that is highly illegal and could net his dealership a very hefty fine.  Have them plug your bike in to the Digital Technician system and check for available downloads while you watch.  If there are any downloads available for your serial number, they will be listed. 

In theory, the stock engine management system will already compensate for minor modifications in air flow.  If your mods exceed the capabilities of the system, the system should illuminate the check engine light, and diagnostic trouble codes will be set and stored in the ECM.  However, if you want to make that bike run cooler and smoother, you need to look into a real tune.  Find a good tuner in your area and talk to him. 


Jerry
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Opossum

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 05:51:57 PM »

My CVO Ultra didn't come with hi flow ac, I had to add it when I did X pipe and baffle upgrade.  Was told by many that if just replace the mufflers or the baffles, no download needed, but if I change the AC then definitely need new mapping.  I think the Street Glide has Hi flow but the Ultra not.
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Diamondback

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 05:59:21 PM »

 :soapbox: :soapbox:

That is true the 07 through 010 CVO Ultra's do not come with the high flow filter's from the factory.  And supposedly, if you install the Stage 1 AC it will lean the bike to far, the stock ecm map will not compensate  (even more so when the cat is removed).  Thus the need for a new map.  The bike will run very lean (even more so than stock) and very hot.

But I am not aware of a HD dealership that will download a "stage 1" map as that would appear to be a EPA violation.  Mine wouldn't hence the need to a TTS, SSERT or PC V fuel management system.  For sure the biggest change on my bike was getting the cat out.  That made a huge diference as I rode it about 25 miles before the PC V was installed.

 :coolblue: :coolblue:
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2010 FXDFSE2 CVO Fat Bob, V&H staggers, Windshield, saddle bags, passenger back rest. 

2011 CVO Ultra Glide, Progressive Monotubes, Ultra 944's, Power Vision, ceramic headpipes, Cellset, Cee Baileys 15" and Fullsac 1.75"
Former 2009 SE Ultra, Rineharts, Stage I, PC V with autotune non cat header pipe
Former 2007 SE Ultra, D&D, Stage I, TMAT Metzlers
Former 2006 Dragonfly Ultra
Former 1999 Road King

grc

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 09:54:33 PM »

The CVO Ultra's have what H-D calls a "high flow" air cleaner, it's just not an open air cleaner like everyone thinks about when you mention high flow.  The airbox has extra holes in it to allow more air in, and the actual filter element is also different, at least on the '09 and '10 models.  Yes, this isn't as "high flow" as the open filters, but it's also not as "low flow" as a standard eglide air cleaner.

With the O2 sensor system, the bike won't run any leaner then it did stock.  If the system can't compensate to maintain the legally required 14.7:1 air fuel ratio, it will illuminate the check engine light, go to open loop mode, and set a diagnostic code.  That is how the emission system works.  

A download from Harley will only maintain the original AFR's, it won't change them or the ignition timing to performance specs.  They cannot do anything that would make the bike noncompliant with the emissions regs, unless they really would like to pay some multimillion dollar fines and be forced to recall all the affected bikes.  Even H-D isn't that dumb.

If you want your bike to run better (and cooler), and I assume you do if you're making mods, you need to get it tuned by a competent tuner and forget the Harley downloads.  The result may not be EPA compliant, but if that idea doesn't bother you then you will be rewarded with better throttle response, driveability, smoothness, cooler temps, and most likely better power output.  The download will just give you the same ol' same ol'.


Jerry
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 10:08:28 PM by grc »
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Diamondback

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 11:26:15 PM »

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

I have my 09 air filter and assembly and if there is more air flow capacity then I can't figure out where. 

I am not sure about the run leaner concept.  One of my riding buddies had the Stage 1 AC and a 09 cat free exhaust installed in October (after 8000 miles on his 09 CVO) and drove the bike 38 miles home and the pipes blued, drove it back a week later and had the PC V installed.  He didn't get any alerts.  He was told the bike was to lean and ran hotter and ruined his stock mufflers.

The end results is just as you say, get a competent tuner and mover on.



 
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2010 FXDFSE2 CVO Fat Bob, V&H staggers, Windshield, saddle bags, passenger back rest. 

2011 CVO Ultra Glide, Progressive Monotubes, Ultra 944's, Power Vision, ceramic headpipes, Cellset, Cee Baileys 15" and Fullsac 1.75"
Former 2009 SE Ultra, Rineharts, Stage I, PC V with autotune non cat header pipe
Former 2007 SE Ultra, D&D, Stage I, TMAT Metzlers
Former 2006 Dragonfly Ultra
Former 1999 Road King

Opossum

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 10:56:38 PM »

I didn't believe there was a hi flow on '10 CVO so I pulled the stock AC assembly  I took off the 08 Ultra and compared it with the old assembly just off '10 CVO an lo and behold there is an extra cut out on the bottom of the old black plastic base plate...a little more intake but not like open Hi flow assembly... things that make ya go hhmmmm.  :nixweiss:
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hdctss

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2010, 10:52:50 AM »

I had my '09 on the computer at the dealer and there were no downloads for my bike...it already has the correct stage 1 download for the 110 cid motor...good luck with your modifications.  the only thing I did was eliminate the cat and powder coat the head pipe.  that alone got rid of a slight stumble that I had right off idle.  the bike runs so good now I am actually afraid to screw with it.
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dep47

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2010, 02:08:41 PM »

I thought maybe the dealer did not know what the deal was with the CVO.  I changed the air cleaner to an Arlen ness high flow type, and I am thinking about eliminating the cat like you did.  I hope the stage one in the bike can handle this modification. 
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JDOFLHRIDER

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Re: HD down load
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2010, 05:52:54 PM »

My tunner says flashes or down loads are generic .I had the flash done on my 05 seeg and it ran ok but nothing like the a dyno tune from a good tunner and when you change things you always can retune where thr flash becomes usless. jdo
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