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Author Topic: P1510 and P2138 after a handlebar change. What'd I likely screw up?  (Read 4935 times)

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Twolanerider

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On a 2011 SESG.  After a handlebar change the check engine light is staying on and it's throwing codes:

P1510 Throttle actuator control limited
P2138 Twistgrop sensor correlation error


I don't have service/diagnostic manuals for anything new enough to be TBW.  And there's only so much one can intuit trying to troubleshoot.  I don't even know, for example, if the "correlation error" is a correlation of voltage across the TGS or a correlation of TGS position versus throttle position.

With the exception of the light and error code the bike actually runs fine.  It's not nor has it been in limp mode.  All the connectors that were disassembled to run the wires in the bars have been rechecked and all are assembled correctly.  It's been running about three weeks since the handlebars were changed.  Just now taking time to get back to it and try to sort it out.

No wires needed to be extended.  So no impedance changes from bad solders or other extensions.  At time of install it all seemed a relatively straightforward installation actually.  Grip sensor was handled delicately and slid in and out with only minimal effort.

Someone with experience with the newer bikes chime in please.  What is the most likely culprit and solution for a bike that seems to run fine but is throwing these codes and has been doing so since the twist grip sensor was removed from one set of handlebars and installed in another as part of a bar swap?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 01:01:37 PM by Twolanerider »
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hdbrad03

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Basically there are two sensors in the throttle. They are 0-5 volt so at idle one reads 0 and the other reads 5 volts. As the throttle is moved each sensor voltages changes but added together they will = 5 volts.

So if one of the sensors runs wild it throws a code. Are you sure the wire were inserted correctly? Like 5 volt and sensor return crossed?

By chance did you do any adjusting on the sensor end plastic piece that meshes with the grip if so may have thrown off the calibration?


 :bananarock:  :bananarock:

    Brad

« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 02:23:06 PM by hdbrad03 »
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Twolanerider

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Basically there are two sensors in the throttle. They are 0-5 volt so at idle one reads 0 and the other reads 5 volts. As the throttle is moved each sensor voltages changes but added together they will = 5 volts.

So if one of the sensors runs wild it throws a code. Are you sure the wire were inserted correctly? Like 5 volt and sensor return crossed?

By chance did you do any adjusting on the sensor end plastic piece that meshes with the grip if so may have thrown off the calibration?


 :bananarock:  :bananarock:

    Brad



Thanks Brad.  Just got a printout of the P2138 diagnostic procedure from Jim after he checked in to offer a hand also.  May be a few days now before we get back to it so will gladly bank any insights collected in the interim.

The two sides of the sensor aren't crossed.  Have checked and double checked.  The OE harness wrap covers internal wraps that separate each trio of wires.  One trio with a yellow internal wrap and one trio with (if I remember correctly) a white wrap.  Nothing crossed there.

Brian (Hogasm) also mentioned in a phone call this morning that he's seen an instance of the TGS housing itself shorting against the handlebar.  With an accurate low voltage meter I'm getting nothing when measuring at the bars.  So no leakage nor short from the TGS housing itself nor the wires.

Jim mentioned this morning that some of these throttle grip sensors have a harness that includes a small connector that is easily damaged.  I didn't think this sensor had that connector.  But a call and email from yet another site watcher made it clear I could be mistaken there.  Was sent a picture showing an exploded view of that version of the sensor and the micro-connector was shown to be inside the harness wrap that is pulled through the handlebars.  It could be there and I would have missed it as it would've been out of sight and I'd not have known to look.

In that same message I was told the TGS with the small and delicate connector is 32310-08 and that a different version of the TGS that is more robust and does not include the small connector in mid-harness is 32305-08A.  Should later effort end up showing, despite the bike seeming to run ok, that the grip sensor is the problem what I'd also like to confirm is that the two versions of the grip sensor are interchangeable.
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hdbrad03

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My sensor had a 3rd connector that was not used. I assumed it may be the input for Harley Heated grip??? I assume this because the Ultra's have heated grips so the heat source would have to be in the TBW Asymbly.

 :bananarock: :bananarock:

    Brad
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aclass

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I had the exact same issue TwoLane,  I could clear the codes, watch the throttle position on the SEST software go from 0-100% as I twisted the grip but the codes would always come back.   All the wires ohmed out just fine.
Went ahead and paid the $90 bucks for a new one,  codes gone and all is well.

Good luck!
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grc

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Don, my understanding is that you are definitely not alone with this issue.  Since 2008, there have been a lot of reports on various forums about the exact same failure after a bar change.  The parts are obviously way too fragile.

The two different part numbers have to do with external wiring versus internal wiring.  I believe the way it works is 32310-08 is for internally wired bars, and 32305-08A is for externally wired bars.  The internally wired part has longer wires, while the externally routed part has shorter wires and a separate jumper harness.  And there have been reports about a small green connector in the middle of the harness cracking and causing this problem.  Some have reported repairing satisfactorily with solder, others have reported just replacing the sensor.  If this turns out to be your problem, might be worth a little solder attempt first.  I think the sensors sell for $80 to $90.


Jerry
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Twolanerider

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My sensor had a 3rd connector that was not used. I assumed it may be the input for Harley Heated grip??? I assume this because the Ultra's have heated grips so the heat source would have to be in the TBW Asymbly.

 :bananarock: :bananarock:

    Brad

This one does also Brad.  A two pin Deutsch that goes nowhere.  Have yet to find a reference to what it's for. 



I had the exact same issue TwoLane,  I could clear the codes, watch the throttle position on the SEST software go from 0-100% as I twisted the grip but the codes would always come back.   All the wires ohmed out just fine.
Went ahead and paid the $90 bucks for a new one,  codes gone and all is well.

Good luck!

That's what Travis's bike is doing.  Could watch the TGS and TPS positions settings change in real time on the Twin Tec scan tool software.  Nothing looks wrong.  And with an ohm meter this one also shows no opens nor shorts and there's no voltage measured to the bar.  But it obviously doesn't like something.

Have reviewed the trouble shooting page that Jim sent.  Turns out some of it I'd already done.  That combined with the old axiom "it's usually the last thing you messed with" makes me think the TGS sensor is the culprit. 
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Twolanerider

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Don, my understanding is that you are definitely not alone with this issue.  Since 2008, there have been a lot of reports on various forums about the exact same failure after a bar change.  The parts are obviously way too fragile.

The two different part numbers have to do with external wiring versus internal wiring.  I believe the way it works is 32310-08 is for internally wired bars, and 32305-08A is for externally wired bars.  The internally wired part has longer wires, while the externally routed part has shorter wires and a separate jumper harness.  And there have been reports about a small green connector in the middle of the harness cracking and causing this problem.  Some have reported repairing satisfactorily with solder, others have reported just replacing the sensor.  If this turns out to be your problem, might be worth a little solder attempt first.  I think the sensors sell for $80 to $90.


Jerry

That's in line with what further homework has suggested Jerry.  Have seen other references to the micro-connector you mention.  This exploded illustration is what shows up for the SESG and as 32310-08.  If that connector is in this one it must have been inside the plastic wire sheath as I don't remember seeing it when this was all apart a few weeks ago. 

This sensor is definitely six wires out of the handlebar (not counting the other two in the unused Deutsch connector).  This illustrations shows only two connections on the upstream side of the micro-connector.  So if pulling the wires through the bars damaged this small connector there is (apparently) more going on at that connection than a simple direct connection.
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Twolanerider

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This is the illustration of the other sensor.  Fitment example of a Road King.  No small, and apparently delicate, connector and the six expected leads in a straight run from the sensor to the connector.

If the small connector on the other sensor is that delicate I've got to be concerned the new one suffer the same fate when being pulled through the bars.  Especiially if the attempt was made with the right hand harness already inside the handlebar.

Have been told the sensors are interchangeable.  If the dealer has both in stock to compare against will have to consider the options.
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aclass

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TwoLane,   you prolly already know this, but the 2 pin connector is for Heated Grips.  The six pin is the TGS assy.   But my experience is only with the sensor for internal wiring so I cant speak for the unit with the green connector inside the bar that is used for bikes that come with external handle bar wiring.
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