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Author Topic: 40274-08A Compensator  (Read 5980 times)

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mcdonaldroadcapt

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40274-08A Compensator
« on: October 20, 2011, 08:16:23 AM »

Just installed the updated 40274-08A compensator in my 08 SE Ultra trike conversion and what a difference.  Even shifting into first from cold start is quieter and easier.  No more knocking during accelerating off idle. Also had new inner primary bearing replaced at the same time which was grinding at idle in neutral. Thank goodness I had extended warranty even thought I paid difference for upgrade compensator. Thanks for all of the help in figuring out what needed to be replaced prior to taking to dealer.
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cahdbiker

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 10:45:45 AM »

mcdonaldroadcapt, is that the latest and newest S.E. compensator? Just wondered in case I ever have issues. Thanks CAHDBIKER
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mcdonaldroadcapt

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2011, 08:38:35 AM »

Yes, I am told that it is the latest for my 2008. This is what they told me anyway.
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aero8

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2011, 10:43:06 AM »

What is the function of this part? :-X

Is this compensator a stock part in newer models?

Is it already fitted as OEM part to my 2011 SESG? :nixweiss:

Aero8
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smiley1049

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2011, 11:42:05 AM »

What is the function of this part? :-X

Is this compensator a stock part in newer models?

Is it already fitted as OEM part to my 2011 SESG? :nixweiss:

Aero8
YES
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catahoula58

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 12:35:49 AM »

What's the real difference between the  08 and the 08A?  I recently had the 08 model installed. Do I need to upgrade to 08A?  What is the benefit or draw back?
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sadunbar

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 09:23:42 AM »

What's the real difference between the  08 and the 08A?  I recently had the 08 model installed. Do I need to upgrade to 08A?  What is the benefit or draw back?

There 08A offers no apparent functional change to the design.  A few of the components have been redesigned.  I believe the design alterations to the components have more to do with reducing manufacturing cost than altering the function of the assembly.
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grc

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 11:03:48 AM »


This is only a semi-informed guess, but my understanding is that the redesign was in response to some premature wear issues with the original design.  Look at the exploded views of the two versions below, and note that the shaft extension has a different external spline arrangement (finer) and the sliding cam has a corresponding finer spline to match.  Then the shaft extension has also had the integral bearing journal (designated "A" in the drawing for the old style) removed, and that function (support of the actual comp sprocket) has been moved to the new style sprocket retainer.  Other parts like the thrust washer and bolt, spring packs, etc. remain the same. 


Jerry
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sadunbar

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 11:34:31 AM »

This is only a semi-informed guess, but my understanding is that the redesign was in response to some premature wear issues with the original design.  Look at the exploded views of the two versions below, and note that the shaft extension has a different external spline arrangement (finer) and the sliding cam has a corresponding finer spline to match.  Then the shaft extension has also had the integral bearing journal (designated "A" in the drawing for the old style) removed, and that function (support of the actual comp sprocket) has been moved to the new style sprocket retainer.  Other parts like the thrust washer and bolt, spring packs, etc. remain the same. 


Jerry

Agree...  I just don't see how these design change correct the premature wear issue.   My engineering mind just doesn't see it...   :nixweiss:
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captdave221

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 08:28:59 AM »

I wonder if the finer splines allow the sliding piece (item #3 the sliding cam) to move easier (not bind on the coarser splines) and reduce the wear on the 3 arms that ride on the ramps?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:30:48 AM by captdave221 »
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TinSpinner

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 08:57:22 AM »

Just installed the updated 40274-08A compensator in my 08 SE Ultra trike conversion and what a difference.  Even shifting into first from cold start is quieter and easier.  No more knocking during accelerating off idle. Also had new inner primary bearing replaced at the same time which was grinding at idle in neutral. Thank goodness I had extended warranty even thought I paid difference for upgrade compensator. Thanks for all of the help in figuring out what needed to be replaced prior to taking to dealer.

I had mine replaced last week and experienced the same improvements. It shifts into first so much easier and quieter I find myself double checking to make sure it is actually in gear. Find neutral a little easier too. I had the classic symptoms of hard start (loud clunk when I hit the starter) and shuddering at take-off prior to that have also gone away.
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djkak

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 08:49:11 PM »

This is only a semi-informed guess, but my understanding is that the redesign was in response to some premature wear issues with the original design.  Look at the exploded views of the two versions below, and note that the shaft extension has a different external spline arrangement (finer) and the sliding cam has a corresponding finer spline to match.  Then the shaft extension has also had the integral bearing journal (designated "A" in the drawing for the old style) removed, and that function (support of the actual comp sprocket) has been moved to the new style sprocket retainer.  Other parts like the thrust washer and bolt, spring packs, etc. remain the same. 


Jerry

Agree...  I just don't see how these design change correct the premature wear issue.   My engineering mind just doesn't see it...   :nixweiss:

It looks like the most significant change between the early and late assemblies is the relocation of the Sprocket’s bearing journal from the splined shaft extension to the sprocket’s retainer. This will certainly make it easier to ensure the proper location of the thrust washer during the assembly process. Not such a big deal in the field, but in a production environment I’ll bet it reduces the potential for assembly related issues and the steps necessary to manage those issues.

The coarse spline in the line drawing doesn’t appear to accurately represent the actual parts. My sense is that this has not been changed between the early and late components. JMO.
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sadunbar

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 09:14:34 PM »

It looks like the most significant change between the early and late assemblies is the relocation of the Sprocket’s bearing journal from the splined shaft extension to the sprocket’s retainer. This will certainly make it easier to ensure the proper location of the thrust washer during the assembly process. Not such a big deal in the field, but in a production environment I’ll bet it reduces the potential for assembly related issues and the steps necessary to manage those issues.

The coarse spline in the line drawing doesn’t appear to accurately represent the actual parts. My sense is that this has not been changed between the early and late components. JMO.

Yep, I agree...  It appears to me the changes make the parts more economical to manufacture, and makes proper assembly of the components more reliable/foolproof. 

But I don't see a potential fix for the premature wear issues of the spokes/cams in the 40274-08A revised design. 

Perhaps this fix might be in a future 40274-08B compensator?
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djkak

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 09:07:35 PM »

The following photos in the next two posts picture two versions of the Cruise Drive compensating sprocket; two standard and one SE, in full failure mode. The components of all three sprockets share common issues; burnt lubricant, metal transfer and extreme wear. (7,500 miles on the SE sprocket and 20k on the two others)

Prior to mid 1984, the Big Twin’s primary drive did not run in an oil bath, but was lubricated by a air/oil mist in the housing. It was not unusual, in fact quite common to see the comp sprocket components of early these machines in nearly the same shape as the components pictured in photos. This appearance was not unusual because an adequate film of lubrication was not maintained over the moving parts of the sprocket, resulting in prolonged metal to metal contact and the associated friction.

Beginning in mid 1984 the primary drive was run in an oil bath, and since then lubrication issues with these components, which had been present since the middle ‘50’s, simply went away…until 2007.
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djkak

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Re: 40274-08A Compensator
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 09:08:04 PM »

Torsional loads at the crankshaft increased dramatically in 2007, testing a number of powertrain components beyond their mechanical limits. Components that would have previously run for the life of the machine, now fail with some regularity. The Cush Drive, torque smoothing calibration and SE comp sprocket all serve to reduce torsional load.

The compensating sprocket is designed to reduce torsional load through the transformation of mechanical energy. The SE comp sprocket is claimed to have a 700% increase in torque capacity over the original. I believe that the increased loads generated from the 2007 and later powertrain also significantly impact the lubrication properties required for this assembly to run reliably.

IMHO, with regard to premature wear, the seemingly random failure of the comp sprockets is more likely related to a lubrication failure than to an issue with materials. Also, the manner in which the vehicle is operated has a significant impact on the load and the mechanical energy transformed by the comp sprocket. It seems reasonable that a riding style which “works” the comp assembly hard and often might make the difference between premature failure and normal service life, with all other variables being relatively equal. Then of course there is the lubricant.

Prior to 2007 you could run just about anything for lubrication in the Big Twin primary housing. Based on the appearance of recent failed components, with the burnt lubricant, metal transfer and extreme wear, together with what we know about the 2007 and later powertrain, with regard to lubrication, things seem to have changed significantly.

A redesign of the sprocket would likely reduce reliance on the lubricant; although it appears that there are a large number of machines that do not experience issues, so at this point in time it seems unlikely that this will happen.

It is also interesting to note that in most if not all cases of premature wear with the non SE comp sprocket, the sprocket shaft extension always seems to experience the most wear (as seen in the previous photo). If you open this photo of the SE sprocket, you will notice that there is no appreciable wear on the shaft extension. The splined surface area of the SE extension was increased substantially over the original unit. The distribution of load over an increased surface area reduces the load at each point of contact, improving the resistance to wear.  As always, JMHO.
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