SE 110 Upgrade - T Man

[Smitty2u]

I was originally thinking of doing the SE 110 Pro Upgrade kit, but I'm thinking of switching gears a bit as that upgrade seems to move the torque curve too far to the right.  The performance tech at my dealer , Buckmins HD in Xenia Oh, has suggested a different route.  Having T-Man do some of the work.  From what I've read here, it seems they do good work.  

Here's their advert for the kit I'm looking at.  

Stage 2 110" CVO Kit (on OEM cylinders)
Kit includes:
Stage 2 Street Eliminator Pro-Touring Heads for CVO SE110
Custom forged pistons made for T-Man Performance by Wisco
Head Gaskets and Base O-Rings
Cylinder Boring and Honing, matched to pistons (Customer supplied cylinders).
Your choice of cam
SE CVO110 heads with matching pistons made exclusively for T-Man Performance by Wisco. This is the perfect performance upgrade for the CVO SE110 engine. Includes the Head Gaskets, Base O-Rings and cylinder boring/honing.
Step up to a mark increase in performance with T-Man's Pro-Touring ported heads. Increased valve sizes with TR's new Bee-Hive*, high lift springs and the legendary TR porting make this a proven Pro-Touring head.
Before any valve work is performed, the heads are prepared with new over-size intake valve seat to ensure proper stability for larger valve installation. This head features 1.940" Intake with 1.615" Exhaust; precision 5 angle cut on Intake valve and Multi-angle Exhaust cut that provides optimal flow made to TR's specs. Precision ported CNC Intake and Exhaust port with hand finished for maximum performance. Fully CNC chamber with hand finishing sized for your particular application. Valve geometry is corrected to insure longevity and quietness of valve train. This is truly a high performance upgrade.

This head provides proven performance upgrade for any build, as well as the perfect compliment to heavy touring bikes!

This head features a 1.710" inlet for maximum performance when using stock and aftermarket TB.

*TR's New Bee-Hive springs eliminate the need to relieve the bottom rocker boxes. This head accommodates cam lifts to .650"

The pistons would be 10.5-1 and the cam being considered is the T-Man 625.  
Also looking at having them do the complete bottom end service (trued, balanced, welded, H-rods, timekin bearings).
V&H Power Dual headers and V&H 4" Monster Round mufflers.
SE Pro tuner.
Woods lifters, new rods, and a heavier clutch spring.
Staying with the stock high flow SE breather.
Last but not least, would be a good Dyno.

If anyone has feedback or opinions I would welcome them.  I am looking for touring power with a touch of scorch in the low range.  I'm told I can expect numbers near 120 & 120 with the torque curve staying pretty consistent from around 2000RPM to 6000RPM.

Again.....  Feedback would be welcomed!
 

[Deweysheads]

It all sounds fine but in the end wouldn't a swap to a 120r make more power and cost less?

[Smitty2u]

Cost wise...  The 120R is list priced at $5800 +-.  This entire project is just a few hundred more and includes new exhaust, tuner, complete bottom end worked over, labor, and dyno.
Here's a dyno with a similar setup.  This example has stock headers.

Max Power = 120.57, Max Torque = 119.16
CI = 110", Heads = T-Man CVO, Cam = TR-625, Pistons = SE Forged set to 10.6:1, TB = SE 58mm, Injectors = SE, Exhaust = Stock headers with Supertrapp Slip-ons, 2010 FLHXSE

[hd-dude]

I have used the 625 cam in several builds. It is a great cam with a very broad torque band. You cannot go wrong with tman performance work either.

[sammyj]

Smitty,

I did the T-Man stage II kit to my 2011 Street Glide. Very happy with the outcome.
I used a Jims crank & rods and SE roller rockers.
She breaks the 100 ft lb mark at 2000 rpm and pulls hard to 6000.

Go for it, you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Sammy

[erniezap]

I had the .625 in my 124 and 117 motors.  Fantastic mid-range cam that I would definitely recommend!  Wish that I had it in my 2012...

[smkblwr]

Been using TManns stuff in both my motor builds, in my 03 95in and in the 2010 117" been real happy with his products.
on my 95in, 3000rpm i am  at 95ft/lbs it breaks 100ft/lbs at 4200rpms it stays above 95ft/lbs from 3k to 6k rpms, peak Hp at 6k 106hp Compression just under 10.20
on my 117in, 3000rpms i am at 120ft/lbs, 3750rpms 130ft/lbs , it stays above 120ft/lbs from 3k to 5k rpms, peak Hp117 at 5500rpms Compression at 9.8
both motors were built for touring, with Torque, reliability, and fuel economy as i mostly enjoy distance riding.  on both motors AFR is set at 13-1, both bikes have TManns stage 2heads,625 cams,  D&D Exhaust, zipper's air filters, the 117in has Tmanns bottom end work done to it, welded, balance, true'd, with H rod beams.

[Smitty2u]

Been using TManns stuff in both my motor builds, in my 03 95in and in the 2010 117" been real happy with his products.
on my 95in, 3000rpm i am  at 95ft/lbs it breaks 100ft/lbs at 4200rpms it stays above 95ft/lbs from 3k to 6k rpms, peak Hp at 6k 106hp Compression just under 10.20
on my 117in, 3000rpms i am at 120ft/lbs, 3750rpms 130ft/lbs , it stays above 120ft/lbs from 3k to 5k rpms, peak Hp117 at 5500rpms Compression at 9.8
both motors were built for touring, with Torque, reliability, and fuel economy as i mostly enjoy distance riding.  on both motors AFR is set at 13-1, both bikes have TManns stage 2heads,625 cams,  D&D Exhaust, zipper's air filters, the 117in has Tmanns bottom end work done to it, welded, balance, true'd, with H rod beams.

That sounds like just the ticket.... 

[Unbalanced]

Since you asked for feedback here is mine.

Please note above he states 95" and 117" not 110.  If you go to many of the sites like HTT etc you wont find many bell ringing 110's.  The 110 its an oddball motor based on crank/bore.  Many on this site have abandoned the 110 and gone to 117, 120, 131's or just put a cam in and exhaust and accepted the 115 -120 tq and 104-110 hp.   The 110 is just not the platform I would recommend going with too many other good choices, been there done it.    IMO 117 or a HD 120 would be better than spending all that money on a 110.   If you go with the Tman build you will have the cases torn apart for the crank, great time to do a 117 or buy a 120 while you say cost, the 120's have been found pretty easily at 20 precent off with little to no effort. 

Good luck look forward to seeing what you decide and how you make out with your bike.

[Smitty2u]

Since you asked for feedback here is mine.

Please note above he states 95" and 117" not 110.  If you go to many of the sites like HTT etc you wont find many bell ringing 110's.  The 110 its an oddball motor based on crank/bore.  Many on this site have abandoned the 110 and gone to 117, 120, 131's or just put a cam in and exhaust and accepted the 115 -120 tq and 104-110 hp.   The 110 is just not the platform I would recommend going with too many other good choices, been there done it.    IMO 117 or a HD 120 would be better than spending all that money on a 110.   If you go with the Tman build you will have the cases torn apart for the crank, great time to do a 117 or buy a 120 while you say cost, the 120's have been found pretty easily at 20 precent off with little to no effort. 

Good luck look forward to seeing what you decide and how you make out with your bike.

Thanks for the input!  I appreciate a different perspective.

[Proctor]

Smitty,

I have done pretty much what you are thinking with just a few differences.  I used the T 662-2, 660 lift cams and was able to bump the hp to almost 130.  I love the way it runs.  I think you would be very happy with that set up.  I have been and with 20,000 miles on the build, it has given me no problems.

[Dead_Reckoning]

Smitty,

I did the T-Man stage II kit to my 2011 Street Glide. Very happy with the outcome.
I used a Jims crank & rods and SE roller rockers.
She breaks the 100 ft lb mark at 2000 rpm and pulls hard to 6000.

Go for it, you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Sammy

Could do a complete list please?
Sounds interesting and great number for typical touring 2 up, or at least in my case.
My local HD Performance orientated Shop likes T-Man

Thanks
DR

[Smitty2u]

Smitty,

I have done pretty much what you are thinking with just a few differences.  I used the T 662-2, 660 lift cams and was able to bump the hp to almost 130.  I love the way it runs.  I think you would be very happy with that set up.  I have been and with 20,000 miles on the build, it has given me no problems.

Proctor,
Those are some sweet numbers your scooter is turning.  Seeing as how you've got 11.1-1 compression have you had any issues with fuel?  
Do you have the Dyno sheet available to post?  I'm interested in seeing how the torque and hp curves run out.

[Proctor]

I do have to add octaine boost.  But it's worth it.

This is not a real low end motor, but from 3500 to 6500 it screams.

[Proctor]

The dyno shows 10.8 : 1, but the builder said it is actually 11:1. 

[Smitty2u]

I do have to add octaine boost.  But it's worth it.

This is not a real low end motor, but from 3500 to 6500 it screams.

I'll bet it does scream.  Are you using the octane boost because of detonation?

[Proctor]

I'll bet it does scream.  Are you using the octane boost because of detonation?

Yep.  Straight 91 will make it ping.  I just add a little Lucas octaine boost to every fill up and it runs great.  We could have taken alittle timing out of it, but why!!

[Smitty2u]

Yep.  Straight 91 will make it ping.  I just add a little Lucas octaine boost to every fill up and it runs great.  We could have taken alittle timing out of it, but why!!

Like my lady says, "Go big or go home".

[Smitty2u]

Well the project is underway......

[Smitty2u]

Well the project is underway......

Pretty much staying with the original idea, just a little tweaking.Stage
Going to have T-Mann's do his Stage 2 110" CVO Kit with his 625 Cam and compression ratios at 10.75:1  
Complete bottom end service (trued, balanced, welded, H-rods, timekin bearings).
V&H Power Dual headers and V&H 4" Monster Round mufflers.
SE Pro tuner.
Woods lifters, new SE rods, and a heavier clutch spring.
Stock TB and injectors.
Staying with the stock breather cover, but switching to a K&N filter.
Last but not least, would be a good Dyno.
Now comes the hard part........ WAITING......

[nbomar]

subscribed! Got a stock 110 itching for something to be done to it....

[clubbie]

Smitty the scoot looks so bare without the motor.

Look forward to seeing the results.

[Mr. Warlock]

Who's doing the bottom end service?

[Smitty2u]

Smitty the scoot looks so bare without the motor.

Look forward to seeing the results.

She does look bare indeed!  I told the dealer I wanted her back by end of Feb.  At least that way she's not taking up space in the garage for the winter.
I will update as things develop.

[Smitty2u]

Who's doing the bottom end service?

My HD dealer (Buckmin's in Xenia Ohio) is doing the bearings and T-Man is doing the rest.

[faceracer]

It all sounds fine but in the end wouldn't a swap to a 120r make more power and cost less?

I agree about the 120r but have not heard anyone say if the crank is ok in those motors? He may spend close to the same money but sounds like it will be a prteey solid build. Has anyone had any crank problems with the 120r? Does it still need to be welded up? I think I read it had the timkin bearings already correct?  Thx Face

[Unbalanced]

Pretty much staying with the original idea, just a little tweaking.Stage
Going to have T-Mann's do his Stage 2 110" CVO Kit with his 625 Cam and compression ratios at 10.75:1  
Complete bottom end service (trued, balanced, welded, H-rods, timekin bearings).
V&H Power Dual headers and V&H 4" Monster Round mufflers.
SE Pro tuner.
Woods lifters, new SE rods, and a heavier clutch spring.
Stock TB and injectors.
Staying with the stock breather cover, but switching to a K&N filter.
Last but not least, would be a good Dyno.
Now comes the hard part........ WAITING......

All this work and using the stock throttlebody?   Would think you would be upgrading to the HPI new 55mm that uses the stock electronics.

[sammyj]

I put the 58mm Moco on mine with 5.3 injectors.

[Fattbaggernknox]

I put the 58mm Moco on mine with 5.3 injectors.

I did the same on mine.. I can't see doing all that & choking it down on air/ fuel..

[Smitty2u]

I put the 58mm Moco on mine with 5.3 injectors.

What kind of numbers are you generating?

[sammyj]

110/118. Breaks 100ft lbs a little over 2000 rpm. Nice power down low. T- Mans headwork very impressive. Put over 12k on the build this year.
Very pleased with it.

[Mr D]

I did the same on mine.. I can't see doing all that & choking it down on air/ fuel..

 
Dont forget porting the intake to match the od of heads when the porting job is done
no sense of just opening the front with a larger TB and choking it on the intake.

[Fattbaggernknox]

110/118. Breaks 100ft lbs a little over 2000 rpm. Nice power down low. T- Mans headwork very impressive. Put over 12k on the build this year.
Very pleased with it.

I bet thats a fun ride with all that torque down low!

[sammyj]

It's a blast to ride... Love the second gear wheelies!

[Smitty2u]

It's a blast to ride... Love the second gear wheelies!

Gotta Love Torque......

[sammyj]

What pipe you thinking about?

[Smitty2u]

What pipe you thinking about?

Vance & Hines Power Dual header pipes with V&H Monster Round slipons.  

[RayG]

Anybody know if and when the 120R motor will be available in the granite color.  I'll be facing a decision shortly and the choices are somewhat limited.  I wonder what it looks like with the black motor with the rest Granite,  I'm sure someone has done it.  Anybody seen one?

[SE113]

110/118. Breaks 100ft lbs a little over 2000 rpm. Nice power down low. T- Mans headwork very impressive. Put over 12k on the build this year.
Very pleased with it.

 What cam and comp,  Would like to see dyno sheet   THANK YOU

[gtaboyz]

For those of you that are wondering what the SE Pro 110 Performance Upgrade Kit, Part # 27548-10A, along with a  set of D&D 2:1 Fat Cats w/ Left Side Falsies did or didn't do for me here are the results: 108.13hp/115.53tq. The kit and exhaust were done after 1K miles on my 2011 SESG. As a comparison, on my 2010 SESG, I did just the SE Pro Race Tuner with the same D&D 2:1 Fat Cats and the results were 88.29hp/103.94tq

[Fattbaggernknox]

This is my 110ci w/o removing the heads. 574 Fueling cams,RB Racing 2-1 black hole spyder exhaust, SE 58mm TB, HPI 5.3 inj & direct link tuned by Strokerjlk. It's a hoot to ride & loves to carry the front wheel in the lower gears at will!

[Smitty2u]

I love scooter projects....  They never seem to wind up the way they started or at least mine seem that way.  Always seem to spend more than budgeted.  I guess the old saying applies... "In for a penny, in for a pound"
After reading the posts, having a discussion with my builder, we decided a few changes in the project were in order.
Here's the new plan....

T-Mann is doing his Stage-II head work
T-Mann 625 Cam  
SE 10.5:1 forged pistons
4-5/8" stroke Se Pro Stroker Flywheel and rod Assembly, balanced and welded by Revolution Performance
Timekin Bearing
SE 58mm TB
SE 5.3 grms/sec injectors
SE Pro tuner.
Woods lifters,
SE rods
SE Clutch upgrade
V&H Power Dual headers and V&H 4" Monster Round mufflers.Staying with the stock breather cover, but switching to a K&N filter.
Last but not least, would be a good Dyno.

Might have been better to have went the 120R route some have suggested, but this has kinda morphed as it went along.  It's still cheaper out the door than the 120R project.  Of course I would of had a 110B motor with 5,000 mile that I could have sold, but I'm not really interested in dealing with trying to sell the motor.  
Once again....  WAITING....

[glens]

Plus the numbers for the motor and frame are both still good for the title...

[Smitty2u]

Plus the numbers for the motor and frame are both still good for the title...

I had not thought about that.

[Smitty2u]

I see some posts of guys waiting to get their newly modified motors Dyno'd until they get some miles on it.  Is that wiser than doing immediately?

[hd-dude]

I see some posts of guys waiting to get their newly modified motors Dyno'd until they get some miles on it.  Is that wiser than doing immediately?

Getting miles on a modified motor without remapping for the changes can be a disaster waiting to happen. Depending or your changes the fuel maps could be off and can be rich and or lean in different areas of throttle position and rpm ranges. If your builder has a base map for your application then it should be ok but its but to check out the AFR to be sure the mapping is close.

[glens]

Might as well seat the rings on the dyno, too, while checking/getting things close enough to start with.

[Smitty2u]

So my plan to have the dyno done when the builder is finished sounds like the right move.  Is there any benefit to having another dyno done once the motor is broken in?

[Fast FLHX]

Usually you get a break in tune on the dyno.  Put miles on the motor and then return for the final fire breathing tune.

[Smitty2u]

Usually you get a break in tune on the dyno.  Put miles on the motor and then return for the final fire breathing tune.

Is this the general consensus?  A second dyno after a break in period?

[WYD OPN]

Break-in tune.
500 miles.
Final tune.

[Fast FLHX]

The standard is for a break in tune, break in, then final tune.

Only debate is how many break in miles are necessary.  I'm not sure there is a big difference between 100 miles and 500.  Heat cycle, let the rings seat, and then all should be good.

[Smitty2u]

I spoke to my builder and he said he'd have enough miles and heat cycles on the bike for the rings to seat and the engine to be good to go.  He said it could be close to 200 miles on the bike before he's finished with the last dyno run.  Sounds like a lot of miles, but if he's doing that I think I'll be set.  Only 48 days 11 hours til spring..... Vrooooom

[spook120]

Have a tman 120 in my 06 SG.  130/130 RW.  Carb bike.  Can't say enough good things about tman work.  Motor pulls like a train at 90+.  Think I have the 660 cam (been a few years) love the idle.  Had just over 12K in the motor (he supplied original 120).  Worth every penny. Spook

[Smitty2u]

That makes me even more rev'd up....  the heads are supposed to be back this week.  I'm promised the bike back by the end of Feb.  I dropped her off before Christmas and told them to have it done by then.  Little did I know that the weather in Ohio would be so nice.  It's not been easy feeling 50+ degree days and no scooter to cruise with.

[Lever]

i know how you feel

[Smitty2u]

i know how you feel

I'm sure you do....  Hopefully it will be well worth the wait for both of us....

[Proctor]

Just wait until the first time your builder fires it up.  It will all be worth it. 

Everybody will know it's not stock.  I get it all the time.  People tell me it sounds like a well built big block muscle car! 

I highly recommend the 30t front sprocket.  It really allowed my bike to run in it's power band.

Good luck.  I can't wait to hear what you think. 

Jeff

[Smitty2u]

I'm looking forward to hearing it fire up.  This is all too much like the excitement of being a kid on Christmas eve.  Knowing that I still have to wait to open my present... lol  I guess therein lies the old adage, The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.
I did decide to go with the 31T Andrews front sprocket.  It won't give quite the snap the the 30T would, but I think the 31T will be a bit easier on belts and if there is a belt issue it's a stock item a the HD dealer, not a special order item from an out of state company. 

 

[Smitty2u]

Well in the spirit of change.....  We've made another change in the direction we're going.  I spoke to my builder (Buckminns HD in Xenia OH) and we're switching out the SEPRT for the TTS Mastertune.  Also at the suggestion of T-Mann we're going with his TR-660SM cam.  All the parts were in, not have to wait for the TTS tuner and the cam.  Hoping they will be able to start next week.  I'll post pictures when it gets going back together.

[Smitty2u]

Well the end is in sight.  The bottom end was assembled today.

[Smitty2u]

Can't wait to get'er done....
Builder say I'd have her back next week.

[Smitty2u]

I'll post the Dyno results when complete, if anyone is still interested....

[barefoot3zk5]

kind of an empty feelin for awhile , Aint it Smitty ?? Someday it'll all be worth it .. Lookin forward to the numbers .. Good luck ..

[Lever]

x2

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Well the end is in sight.  The bottom end was assembled today.

Nice, clean, work area.
Scott

[Smitty2u]

kind of an empty feelin for awhile , Aint it Smitty ?? Someday it'll all be worth it .. Lookin forward to the numbers .. Good luck ..

I say it's a lot like Christmas eve as a kid.  Knowing you have something nice coming, but can't get your hands on it.  Good luck on your build as well!

[CVOThunder]

Holy smokes...what a big change over the last primary I worked on. That compensator and primary have changed a lot since my 78 Superglide. Snooze ya loose I reckon. Thanks for posting this log and photos! Very cool.

[harley_enough]

i did a t man build 2 years ago...well lima hd did it for me...he did my heads bigger tb  and injectors  I'm not sure which cam  but it was what he recamended..a kerker 2 into 1...im very happy with it.....dyno said 118 tq 118 hp...they tell me a dd fatcat would be better..but i love the sound of the kerker..bad news is i was in yellowstone and sturgis on a 2 week trip last summer and my fuel pump went out. had it fixed at rapid city hd..left for home the next day  rode 600 mi and blew it up. so my dad came and picked me up...i guess a valve stuck and had to buy a new head and t man had to fix it...jus got it back  i hope its fixed......

[Smitty2u]

Those sound like some pretty good numbers.  Hopefully you're all squared away and road ready.  I'm hoping to see mine finished up next week.  Yesterday riding home from work I had the Jones real bad.  Wanted to be out and about.  I told my gal today I'm in need of some "Wind Therapy".


Smitty

[harley_enough]

yea i rode about 30 miles yesterday...it was 68 in lima  we broke a record....would have liked to have done more but had to work and getn ready for daytona...

[digga25]

Smitty I feel your pain.Up untill yesterday weather has been ok for riding and I am recouping from a knee replacement,so even if my bike was ready still cant ride.

[Smitty2u]

Smitty I feel your pain.Up untill yesterday weather has been ok for riding and I am recouping from a knee replacement,so even if my bike was ready still cant ride.

Hopefully you both will be road ready at the same time.....  Good luck with that knee.

[Smitty2u]

There's light at the end of the tunnel....
When i started this thread it was before Christmas.  Now the motor is back together and the exhausted is being bolted into place.  Should hear her run early next week and then onto the Dyno....
Here's the final build modifications:
TR Stage 2 Street Eliminator Pro-Touring Heads
TR-660-SM Cam  
SE 10.5:1 forged pistons
4-5/8" stroke Se Pro Stroker Flywheel and rod Assembly, balanced and welded by Revolution Performance
Cylinders 4.060 Bore
Timekin Bearing
SE 58mm TB
SE 5.3 grms/sec injectors
TTS Master Tuner
SE lifters,
SE rods
SE Clutch upgrade
V&H Power Dual headers with V&H 4" Monster Round mufflers.
K&N air filter
Andrews 31T transmission sprocket

Here's a few pics of where she stands tonight.....

[Smitty2u]

another pic

[Smitty2u]

and lastly.....



I'll share the Dyno results when I bring her home....

[Black Diamond]

Looks like a good package. I like T-Man's stuff. Looking forward to your sheet and ride report.

JW

[barefoot3zk5]

What are we waitin for ?? lets put fuel in it and  bust it off .. LOL .. good luck with results .. looks interesting 

[Smitty2u]

What are we waitin for ?? lets put fuel in it and  bust it off .. LOL .. good luck with results .. looks interesting 

If it was up to me we'd be "bustin it off" today.  However I have to wait for the builder.... 

[SE113]

4-5/8" stroke Se Pro Stroker Flywheel and rod Assembly, balanced and welded by Revolution Performance
Cylinders 4.060 Bore
You now have a 120 motor. NICE

[Smitty2u]

4-5/8" stroke Se Pro Stroker Flywheel and rod Assembly, balanced and welded by Revolution Performance
Cylinders 4.060 Bore
You now have a 120 motor. NICE

That would be affirmative........   

[OnUrMark]

Nice setup Smitty2u - I'm brand new to the site, and have been reading this thread with envy!!  I just bought a 2012 CVO SE Street Glide, sold my 2007 CVO SE RoadKing and based on the feedback you received from most it looks like T-Man is a good choice when looking to do a major performance upgrade.   I'm going to give him a call, but before I do I have one question maybe you and/or these folks who have much more expertise than me can help with an answer?  Looking at the T-Man website I noticed that he sells a Stage 4 Thumper Series kit for the 110, however I have not read anywhere on this thread of any mention of it?  Any reason not to consider this kit over the Stage 2?  Just curious....

Can't wait to hear that your back on the road and lovin life!!

[Smitty2u]

Nice setup Smitty2u - I'm brand new to the site, and have been reading this thread with envy!!  I just bought a 2012 CVO SE Street Glide, sold my 2007 CVO SE RoadKing and based on the feedback you received from most it looks like T-Man is a good choice when looking to do a major performance upgrade.   I'm going to give him a call, but before I do I have one question maybe you and/or these folks who have much more expertise than me can help with an answer?  Looking at the T-Man website I noticed that he sells a Stage 4 Thumper Series kit for the 110, however I have not read anywhere on this thread of any mention of it?  Any reason not to consider this kit over the Stage 2?  Just curious....

Can't wait to hear that your back on the road and lovin life!!

 I did consider the "Thumper" head work from T-Mann, but had to say enough at some point.  The cost of this upgrade more than doubled once it started rolling.  This project started out a much more basic upgrade, but morphed as I worked with my builder and got feedback on this forum.  I envisioned cams, pipes, and tuner but one thing led to another and.........things just snowballed.  Now the guy who's doing the work on my scoot has the "Thumper" heads on a 124CID and says he's pulling 145TQ.  I don't think I'll be near that, but it will be interesting to see the final results.  He should be dyno tuning this week and I hope to have her back soon.  I will post the dyno and the @$$ pucker review after I take her for a spin.

Smitty

[OnUrMark]

I hear you Smitty, these upgrades at this level get you spending some serious coin.   Appreciate the feedback!   I'm holding off from calling T-Man until I get your results!!   Hurry up and get that baby Dyno'd!!      You have to be freakin jones'n to drive it!!

[Smitty2u]

I hear you Smitty, these upgrades at this level get you spending some serious coin.   Appreciate the feedback!   I'm holding off from calling T-Man until I get your results!!   Hurry up and get that baby Dyno'd!!     You have to be freakin jones'n to drive it!!

I am Jonesing to say the least.  I called my builder as soon as I posted that last message.  My bike is on the Dyno, but T-Mann's server is down so he's having to wait to download a base map.  Still got my fingers crossed to get her back Friday.  It's supposed to rain in Ohio tomorrow, which should clear the salt away and make a shakedown ride all the more fun.......

[barefoot3zk5]

What are we waitin for ?? lets put fuel in it and  bust it off .. LOL .. good luck with results .. looks interesting  2vrolijk_21

[Smitty2u]

What are we waitin for ?? lets put fuel in it and  bust it off .. LOL .. good luck with results .. looks interesting  2vrolijk_21

She's already been fired up.  Now it's time for what I consider to be the most crucial part of the build...... The tune.......

[barefoot3zk5]

Smitty .. put one dem canned Tunas init .. LOL.. I wanna see some numbers.. LOL

[Smitty2u]

No more than I do..... I dropped her off before Christmas not thinking there would any descent riding weather..... Boy was I ever wrong.....

[OnUrMark]

Smitty, did you have your OEM 110 cylinders bored to 4.060 or did you purchase a set?

Rich

[Smitty2u]

With the stroker crank, the piston travels father down, so new cylinders were in order.  The sleaves which extend down into the case are longer for the longer travel.

[OnUrMark]

Right okay, I see now.  Thanks.  Sorry I've always been a cams, exhaust, and tuner guy, but lately my posse has been walkin away from me when we get side by side.      So time to go all out this time with the new bike and do some walkin of my own!   Did you get the stroker kit and cylinders from Rev Perf?   

[Tatu]

Sounds like this build is going to a good one for sure.
I'm getting a set of Stage 4 Heads from T-Man delivered to me this week, they are bolting up to a 113" with 662-1 cams. I use his stuff all the time with great results.

[Smitty2u]

Right okay, I see now.  Thanks.  Sorry I've always been a cams, exhaust, and tuner guy, but lately my posse has been walkin away from me when we get side by side.     So time to go all out this time with the new bike and do some walkin of my own!   Did you get the stroker kit and cylinders from Rev Perf?  

No I was going to have T-Mann do his deal with the original crank and my HD dealer, who is also who is doing the build, offered to go to the SE 4 5/8" Stroker, have it trued and welded at Rev Perf along with the new cylinders for only $250 more than just having the original crank trued, welded, and balanced at T-Manns.  That seemed like a no brainer to me.  I know I won't have the fastest scooter out there, but doubt any of my buddies will be walking away from me.

Smitty

[Fast FLHX]

I'm amazed that these builds cost the same as a equally well built LSx motor.  With six less pistons and rods you would think it would be cheaper to build a twin cam than a pushrod V8.

[Smitty2u]

I'm amazed that these builds cost the same as a equally well built LSx motor.  With six less pistons and rods you would think it would be cheaper to build a twin cam than a pushrod V8.

I, we, have become desensitized to spending when it comes to our scooters.  I call the HD dealer, the Hundred Dollar store.  Aint much there for less that a "C" note.

[OnUrMark]

No I was going to have T-Mann do his deal with the original crank and my HD dealer, who is also who is doing the build, offered to go to the SE 4 5/8" Stroker, have it trued and welded at Rev Perf along with the new cylinders for only $250 more than just having the original crank trued, welded, and balanced at T-Manns.  That seemed like a no brainer to me.  I know I won't have the fastest scooter out there, but doubt any of my buddies will be walking away from me.

Smitty

Thanks for the information Smitty.  Yea for $250 more heck I would of done the same thing.  Just don't add it ALL up at the end it will hurt less....   
68 degrees out today and sun shining....even though my bike is still stock I think I'm going for a ride...

[Smitty2u]

Thanks for the information Smitty.  Yea for $250 more heck I would of done the same thing.  Just don't add it ALL up at the end it will hurt less....   
68 degrees out today and sun shining....even though my bike is still stock I think I'm going for a ride...

Go for it.... Still got my fingers crossed for getting my scooter back tomorrow.  Supposed to be in the 50's here in OHIO for the weekend.  Only 11 days 4 hours and 57 minutes stil spring......

[Deweysheads]

That is a nice cam, has a nasty idle.
One of my builds with less than a good tune and pipe made 111/117 at 107" and 10.5/1  SAE with that cam. Got another in the works right now.

[Smitty2u]

That is a nice cam, has a nasty idle.
One of my builds with less than a good tune and pipe made 111/117 at 107" and 10.5/1  SAE with that cam. Got another in the works right now.

Make me want to get out and ride her even more......

[Smitty2u]

Just thought I'd post an update.  Don't have it back yet, but do have some preliminary numbers.  My guys tells me he has her tuned up to 4000 RPM.  Right now the numbers are showing 130TQ and 117HP.  He's working through a cold start issue and then I'll get her back for some break-in riding.  Final tune will be done between 500 and 1000 miles.  My anticipation level continues to rise.

[Lever]

well that oughta break the tire loose and then some 

like me have your new rear tire on stand by ...    .grats on the build

[OnUrMark]

Just thought I'd post an update.  Don't have it back yet, but do have some preliminary numbers.  My guys tells me he has her tuned up to 4000 RPM.  Right now the numbers are showing 130TQ and 117HP.  He's working through a cold start issue and then I'll get her back for some break-in riding.  Final tune will be done between 500 and 1000 miles.  My anticipation level continues to rise.

Yes Sir!!  Good numbers!!   HP will continue to climb beyond 4K and phew hold on with that kind of TQ!!   You'll do even better once you have another 200 miles of break in on her.    Man makes me wish my bike was all done and ready.   Talked to T.R. yesterday, filling in my worksheet!     Now the wait starts....    Congrats Smitty!!  Nice build!!

Rich

[backroad Mike]

Wow, that's gonna be nasty Smitty.. 

Does it come with a parachute?   

[MadCVORG]

....More like an ejection seat with those numbers. Strap in, hang on, and SCREAM AWAY!!!

[barefoot3zk5]

whats up with Fosters goin out what is the date ??

[Smitty2u]

Yes Sir!!  Good numbers!!   HP will continue to climb beyond 4K and phew hold on with that kind of TQ!!   You'll do even better once you have another 200 miles of break in on her.    Man makes me wish my bike was all done and ready.   Talked to T.R. yesterday, filling in my worksheet!     Now the wait starts....    Congrats Smitty!!  Nice build!!

Rich

I'm sure the HP will go up, since he cut the Dyno run at 4000 RPM.  Hopefully your build will progress quickly so you can get out and enjoy the upcoming weather.  Mine took 3 almost 3 months, but in all fairness I told them I didn't want her back before March 1st.  I figured I'd let them store my scooter during the winter for free.  Now it's time to get on my bike and ride.  I might take a ride out to the dealer today to hear her run...... 

[ob1]

Very nice...

[Black Diamond]

Just thought I'd post an update.  Don't have it back yet, but do have some preliminary numbers.  My guys tells me he has her tuned up to 4000 RPM.  Right now the numbers are showing 130TQ and 117HP.  He's working through a cold start issue and then I'll get her back for some break-in riding.  Final tune will be done between 500 and 1000 miles.  My anticipation level continues to rise.

Very nice indeed. My 117 is similar so I know how big your smile is going to be! Ride safe, keep the painted parts up.

JW

[Smitty2u]

Very nice indeed. My 117 is similar so I know how big your smile is going to be! Ride safe, keep the painted parts up.

JW

And the rubber side down....... 

[Smitty2u]

Well I picked up my scooter today.  I have to put some breakin miles to put on the engine and then comes the final tune.  Once I have 500 to 1000 miles they'll finish the tune.  The hardest thing right now is to keep her below 4000 RPM.  A liitle roll of the throttle and it's 4000 and climbing....  She pulls so hard that I gotta hold on tight... lol   Not only is she markedly quicker, but the engine seems a lot cooler as well.  Very happy so far with the results.  The waiting is over and now it's time to get on my bike and ride.....

[MadCVORG]

Nice!  Probably a good time to get some mpg readings as well, to see whether your mileage has changed.  And I don't recall any restriction on doing wheelies below 4000.......enjoy!!

[Black Diamond]

Well I picked up my scooter today.  I have to put some breakin miles to put on the engine and then comes the final tune.  Once I have 500 to 1000 miles they'll finish the tune.  The hardest thing right now is to keep her below 4000 RPM.  A liitle roll of the throttle and it's 4000 and climbing....  She pulls so hard that I gotta hold on tight... lol   Not only is she markedly quicker, but the engine seems a lot cooler as well.  Very happy so far with the results.  The waiting is over and now it's time to get on my bike and ride.....

So your going in tomorrow for the finish tune! LOL   Good luck, looking forward to your D sheet.

JW

[OnUrMark]

Well I picked up my scooter today.  I have to put some breakin miles to put on the engine and then comes the final tune.  Once I have 500 to 1000 miles they'll finish the tune.  The hardest thing right now is to keep her below 4000 RPM.  A liitle roll of the throttle and it's 4000 and climbing....  She pulls so hard that I gotta hold on tight... lol   Not only is she markedly quicker, but the engine seems a lot cooler as well.  Very happy so far with the results.  The waiting is over and now it's time to get on my bike and ride.....

Awesome!   I'd go with the 500 miles     Just got off the phone with T.R. I'm bringing my bike down to him end of April.   Will start a thread with the build recipe once he gets started.   Enjoy the Christmas gift!!   and post that D sheet when all said and done!

[RayG]

That will be one build that will have allot of interest.  I don't know Jack Sh%t but after reading a number of forums I would consider HD Dude or T-Man, I'm sure there are other places that do good work but I have no personal knowledge of others on the same scale.

[Smitty2u]

Awesome!   I'd go with the 500 miles     Just got off the phone with T.R. I'm bringing my bike down to him end of April.   Will start a thread with the build recipe once he gets started.   Enjoy the Christmas gift!!   and post that D sheet when all said and done!

Good luck with your build.  So far I'm grinning ear to ear.  I've been out twice for a total of 100 miles.  My gal asked me last night, after we finished riding, if it was everything I expected....  My response..... "OH YEAH!"

[Eagle Eye]

Good luck with your build.  So far I'm grinning ear to ear.  I've been out twice for a total of 100 miles.  My gal asked me last night, after we finished riding, if it was everything I expected....  My response..... "OH YEAH!"

   Be nice to see how it runs after a tune.

[Smitty2u]

  Be nice to see how it runs after a tune.

She's been tuned to 4000 RPM, so I don't  expect the TQ will rise much at all after the final tune.  I do however expect to see the HP rise as I'd expect she'll increase to somewhere around 5500 RPM.  Won't know til it over, but I'll be posting the Dyno for those intestested.

Smitty

[CVOThunder]

Nah, we ain't interested a lick.  Sounds like a good build and glad she brings a smile to yer face. 

[CVOThunder]

Ok I've been up for 8 hours now...where's our update? I can only eat so much popcorn.  Looking fwd to the outcome.

[Smitty2u]

Ok I've been up for 8 hours now...where's our update? I can only eat so much popcorn.  Looking fwd to the outcome.

So far she's rock solid.  No quirkiness at all.  Hope the weather cooperates this weekend so I can get out for sum serious ride time.

Smitty

[OnUrMark]

Okay Smitty I've been watching the weather up there in Ohio, you should have enough miles on that bike for its tune beyond 4000 rpm mark...       You know I just have to see that Dyno sheet, your bike is setup to run, and I'm all out of popcorn too!!   

[Smitty2u]

Okay Smitty I've been watching the weather up there in Ohio, you should have enough miles on that bike for its tune beyond 4000 rpm mark...       You know I just have to see that Dyno sheet, your bike is setup to run, and I'm all out of popcorn too!!   

We're getting close to having enough miles, 400 and counting.  I guess I should call my guy and see where she'll fit in his schedule.  I'm wanting to see how she runs after the final tune.  We all know the Dyno sheet is not the "Holy Grail", but it's what we all look at as a measure of success.  So far i'm having @$$ puckering fun......

[digga25]

Smitty,glad your happy with the build so far.I am chomping at the bit for mine to be done.Supposed to be this week.It was eighty degrees today in NH and my wife was gracious enough to let me take her bike for a ride.1st time since the knee replacement. I am going mental waiting for this to be done.Good luck to you.Fred

[Smitty2u]

Smitty,glad your happy with the build so far.I am chomping at the bit for mine to be done.Supposed to be this week.It was eighty degrees today in NH and my wife was gracious enough to let me take her bike for a ride.1st time since the knee replacement. I am going mental waiting for this to be done.Good luck to you.Fred

I understand how it feels.  My scooter was out of comish from dec 24th til march 13th.  It was a kid on Christmas eve.   Good luck to you as well.  I'll look forward to hearing about your results.

[Smitty2u]

Well I've got 600 miles on her now.  Gonna drop her off for the final tune on April 1st.  I'll followup with the Dyno results as soon as they're in. 

[OnUrMark]

That's not an April fools joke is it?      Soo does that mean when you get it back you can run above 4k rpm?   

[Smitty2u]

That's not an April fools joke is it?      Soo does that mean when you get it back you can run above 4k rpm?   

No Aprils Fools..... She will be good to the rev limit of 6200 and that should be fun!

[Smitty2u]

Well finally got her back.  Now I can get back to some riding.  Here's the Dyno sheet after the final tune.  I think she turned out quite well, but that's just my opinion.

[Dead_Reckoning]

Why is it that it seems no matter what the build, decreasing TQ crosses increasing hP @ 5500?.

[MadCVORG]

Smitty,
  Nice graph!  Hope you're piling on the miles with this screamer!

Reckoning-
  Horsepower figures are actually derived from torque and RPM readings, so you'll see the graphs cross at 5252 RPM. Someone posted a detailed explanation onit.

[cherryseeg2]

Horsepower equals torqueXrpm(where max torque occurs) divided by 5252 always. If you see a graph where they don't cross at 5252 it's because the scaling is not the same on both sides of the graph.

[CVOThunder]

I watch the Revolution Performance you tube videos and was going to ask them about stock CVO engine parts but Smitty, it looks like you may have answered that in your signature. I'm wondering if there are any engine parts in a stock 110 that are found in the SE catalog. Since you've listed specific parts with SE I'm guessing that our engines use plane jane parts and not hi-zoot stuff in the SE catalog. I was hoping that a lot of stuff would have been included but maybe not. So what about the 120R, does those use better rods, crank, lifters, pistons, heads etc. I'm tossing around the idea of building a 124 but will H-D sell you just the case without turning in your old cases? Like can I purchase case # 24601-10a and flywheel set 23893-10a and build from there. It would be cheaper to buy the complete engine but I'd still want to have it balanced, welded and blueprinted and wonder about cost savings on having a 120R sent to a shop like Rev Perf etc or send component parts? Probably close either way I guess.

[Smitty2u]

I watch the Revolution Performance you tube videos and was going to ask them about stock CVO engine parts but Smitty, it looks like you may have answered that in your signature. I'm wondering if there are any engine parts in a stock 110 that are found in the SE catalog. Since you've listed specific parts with SE I'm guessing that our engines use plane jane parts and not hi-zoot stuff in the SE catalog. I was hoping that a lot of stuff would have been included but maybe not. So what about the 120R, does those use better rods, crank, lifters, pistons, heads etc. I'm tossing around the idea of building a 124 but will H-D sell you just the case without turning in your old cases? Like can I purchase case # 24601-10a and flywheel set 23893-10a and build from there. It would be cheaper to buy the complete engine but I'd still want to have it balanced, welded and blueprinted and wonder about cost savings on having a 120R sent to a shop like Rev Perf etc or send component parts? Probably close either way I guess.

I think pretty much the only things on the original 110 motor that's actually high performance are the heads.  I believe the 120R has the SE racing parts already there.  I'm certain Harley will sell whatever you want to buy if you want to build one from scratch.  I would ask why you would not just upgrade the one you have, keeping the same VIN's matching or buy the 120R as opposed to building one entirely from scratch?  I don't know about having the motor blueprinted.  The SE 4 5/8" crank is a much better crank.  I was told by my builder that balancing was not necessary, just have it trued in a jig and welded so that's the route we went..

[glens]

Horsepower equals torqueXrpm(where max torque occurs) divided by 5252 always. If you see a graph where they don't cross at 5252 it's because the scaling is not the same on both sides of the graph.

But with a dyno, the horsepower figure is made up out of thin air, then the formula is used in reverse to derive the torque.  Weird, I know...

[Smitty2u]

I wanted to thank everyone for all their input along the way.  I knew very little when I started the project and received a lot of good information and feedback.  Now I get to enjoy!

[Lever]

looks like a great build ...and a lots of fun   grats

[CVOThunder]

I think pretty much the only things on the original 110 motor that's actually high performance are the heads.  I believe the 120R has the SE racing parts already there.  I'm certain Harley will sell whatever you want to buy if you want to build one from scratch.  I would ask why you would not just upgrade the one you have, keeping the same VIN's matching or buy the 120R as opposed to building one entirely from scratch?  I don't know about having the motor blueprinted.  The SE 4 5/8" crank is a much better crank.  I was told by my builder that balancing was not necessary, just have it trued in a jig and welded so that's the route we went..

I was just thinking about not messing with warranty issues on the stock 110 which is kinda dumb considering I'm sure the rest of the drive train warranty would be gone once they figured there was motor work done. I'm just arm chair racing and dreaming again and I've been thinking about going to a 124". The SE crank/rods would work for that (I think) but I'd need to replace the cylinders/pistons which would be a waste if ordering up a 120R. 6's I guess.

I'm sure they blueprinted your engine as they built your engine. It's just another word for attention to detail like checking & matching combustion chamber cc's and making sure they're equal, sharp edges deburred etc. And yes the SE crank does look much better. Having someone build me an engine via UPS doesn't address dyno tuning efforts and since I don't know who has one out in my area, I'll have to find out first. High Desert H-D in Boise has one I think but I don't really want to do business with them again.

There is a High Desert Cycle in Idaho Falls and I understand he has one but want to make sure that people reading this understand that I'm not bad mouthing the one in Idaho Falls. Sounds promising so I'll check out his business.


Cheers!

[Eagle Eye]

Bring it on bro...inquiring minds wanna know, whatcha gonna do???  Good luck figuring it out.  You're doing the right thing bouncing it off this bunch. 

[Unbalanced]

I was just thinking about not messing with warranty issues on the stock 110 which is kinda dumb considering I'm sure the rest of the drive train warranty would be gone once they figured there was motor work done. I'm just arm chair racing and dreaming again and I've been thinking about going to a 124". The SE crank/rods would work for that (I think) but I'd need to replace the cylinders/pistons which would be a waste if ordering up a 120R. 6's I guess.

I'm sure they blueprinted your engine as they built your engine. It's just another word for attention to detail like checking & matching combustion chamber cc's and making sure they're equal, sharp edges deburred etc. And yes the SE crank does look much better. Having someone build me an engine via UPS doesn't address dyno tuning efforts and since I don't know who has one out in my area, I'll have to find out first. High Desert has one I think but I don't really want to do business with them again.


Cheers!

CVOTHunder,

A friend of mine just built a 124 using the S&S of a Harley original motor.  He had the cases bored out by Gary at universal machine.  He went with the lower compression pistons and 110 heads and 585 S&S cams instead of the 640's, 58mm HPI throttlebody and Thunder header 2-1.   He is making 138 torque and 124 hp.   Bike is cool running, no issues and really quick with the 585 cam in there.   The bike is a FLH tuned with a PC-V.   It runs so well he just did his GF bike (Fatboy) as well, but they pulled the higher compression pistons out due to heat.  Her build is the same except they went with S&S heads.



Thus far they are both really pleased with the builds.

[OnUrMark]

I wanted to thank everyone for all their input along the way.  I knew very little when I started the project and received a lot of good information and feedback.  Now I get to enjoy!

Nice numbers Smitty!  You have to be happy with that.
Thanks for sharing.  I'm trying to get my bike down to T man.   He's not the easiest to get an answer out of but I'm working on him.       Going with the Stage 4 Thumper series, plus some other goodies.

Rich

[CVOThunder]

Bring it on bro...inquiring minds wanna know, whatcha gonna do???  Good luck figuring it out.  You're doing the right thing bouncing it off this bunch. 

I'm gonna dream for awhile it looks like. LOL. Other things now need my cash, like house refi.

Thanks Unbalanced, I appreciate the input and I'll look at that option as well when/if the time comes.

And I'm not sure if I sent congrats on your build Smitty. I think I did but if not, great numbers and it sounds like a blast. No more of me h/j your thread and build. 

[Dave H]

Nice result Smitty !
Enjoy

[Smitty2u]

Nice numbers Smitty!  You have to be happy with that.
Thanks for sharing.  I'm trying to get my bike down to T man.   He's not the easiest to get an answer out of but I'm working on him.       Going with the Stage 4 Thumper series, plus some other goodies.

Rich

Sounds interesting.  My builder has a 124 with T-Manns Thumper Series head work and he's quoting 145TQ.  I'll look forward to seeing your results. 
For now I'm finished...... We'll at least for the foreseeable future...

[smkblwr]

Nice numbers Smitty, enjoy