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Author Topic: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?  (Read 19313 times)

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Dan_Lockwood

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V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« on: December 02, 2013, 04:22:04 PM »

I'm just doing some "play" research right now and I'm looking for an adapter kit to be able to use a flywheel and disc clutch right on the crank output.

I'm sure they're made somewhere.  The new Morgan Three Wheeler uses the S&S X-Wedge in a 120'ish cube size and mate that to a Mazda 5-spd.  Ace/Liberty out of WA state do a Harley or HD clone motor to their car transmission, but neither of these are forthcoming on what, where or how they do the adapters.

I see kits for Moto Guzzi's to VW transaxles, but have not been able to find a current maker of a HD to anything else kit.  If I could get the general concept I'm sure I could draw it up for our machine shop to make, but I've only got some basic general ideas.

Also on such a system, when the clutch is thrown out, peddle depressed, it's going to be pushing against the pressure plate which in turn pushes the crank forward.  In a car motor they have one of their main bearing set up for side thrush loads.  On a HD motor as currently supplied, I'm not sure the standard primary side crank bearing would do the job to keep the crank from moving sideways in the block.

But with a Timken setup that has two apposing tapered bearings, I think that this would do the job.  It's not like you're going to run for hours with the clutch in.

So does anyone have any ideas on the adapter kit or know of someone that could help me out? 

Do you think a motor with the Timken bearings on the primary side would be more than enough to support the crank from moving while the clutch is in?

Any ideas on either of the above subjects would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance...
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Dan

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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 12:29:39 PM »

Okay, maybe a picture or two will get you guys talking...

This is the Ace Motor Car out of WA state.  I believe that Morgan purchased the design to get back into the three wheeler market.  The Ace uses a HD motor and the Morgan uses a S&S X-Wedge 2L.



Another couple angles of the Ace





And then here is the new Morgan Three Wheeler with the S&S motor





So let's forget about the flywheel adapter as I'm sure that I can design one if need be, but what about the throughout bearing pressure against the Harley crank?

My gut tells me that if I had a motor with the twin facing Timken bearings that the crank end play under the pressure of the throughout bearing and pressure plate, that for what little time the clutch would actually be pushed in would not be an issue.  I really don't want to have to worry about having some sort of thrust bearing between rotor and the crankcase.  The Timken solution sounds a lot better.

What does everyone think?  Thoughts please...

Thanks for looking.








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Dan

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LC110

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 02:08:11 PM »

I found this patent that may help you.
http://www.google.com/patents/US5566591
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5566591.pdf    with drawings

The RAWACO Trike company made the one in the picture.
I think this is the website. Could always call or email and see if they did make this.
http://www.rewaco.ca/welcome.html
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:47:37 PM by LC110 »
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LC110

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 03:03:49 PM »

Maybe you could try and contact this guy Larry Smith
here is link to his photo pages. I don't know anything about him or his project HD car just found this stuff surfing the web.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/evolyn80/library/?sort=3&page=1
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 06:06:36 PM »

LC110, thanks.

I found the patent and the Larry's build thread on the Volksrod forum.  I printed out the patent with pictures.

I'm thinking that the smallest flywheel that I could get a way with would be one from a VW.  Some of the hot Bugs use a 200mm diameter clutch instead of the the more standard 180mm size.

I belive that I could come up with the hub from maybe a compensator and machine and weld on the hub to bolt the flywheel to.  I know in the old days I had a VW sand rail and I had the 8 dowel pin mod done to the crank and a lightweight flywheel, 4 is standard like in the pictures you found.

Then making the bellhousing would be more billet than casting.  I'm thinking about maybe a T-5 S10 or 4-cylinder Camaro trans and building from there.

I also thought about how hard it would be to start a V-twin with a direct drive starter flywheel ratio.  It would crank easier, but would turn a lot slower than the step-up ratio you get from the clutch basket through the primary chain to the compensator sprocket.  It must work though as that's how the Morgan and the Ace are set up.

Thanks again.
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Dan

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hogasm

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 06:37:08 PM »

Dan there is a member that was/is selling a corbin roadster. I believe he is from the west coast. That set up was a twin cam motor.
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LC110

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 06:40:48 PM »

Dan I wish you well with your project. As time permits I will do some more searching.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 06:52:01 PM »

Steve at GMR Performance sent me a PM and we just got off the phone.  He brought up some good points to consider.

After our talk and then reviewing the pictures of the VW to HD clutch assembly, it looks like the flywheel and splined adapter is no supported by the solely by the HD crank.  The big arse roller bearing in the aluminum housing looks like it carries the weight of the flywheel and the spline then just bolts together with the roller bearing offering support for balance and end loads so the HD crank doesn't see them.

BUT what Steve said is very true, with the pulses of the HD motor and without any type of compensator the spline or transmission is going to have a beating from all the pulses.  Maybe if the stock compensator could be used to drive the flywheel spline assembly, that would be better...

I also saw a YouTube video of this guy on his first test drive with the HD in the rear.  He said that he had a lot of clutch chatter in first gear.  So maybe that's a problem.  I'll try to get in touch with the guy and see how it's all worked out for him.

Thanks again for the input.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 10:44:12 PM by Dan_Lockwood »
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Dan

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Starfish1991

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 11:08:36 PM »

Guys
Sorry to bump but this is exactly what I’m looking for so I don’t want to start a new thread.

A friend of mine with disabilities is looking to find an adapter kit for the Harley to VW.

We’d be happy to pay for even just measurements of the kit itself. I’m unable to follow most of the leads as when I register for the forums either the members aren’t active who have mentioned it etc

Does anyone know where I could find one?

Starfishy
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 12:17:32 PM »

Guys
Sorry to bump but this is exactly what I’m looking for so I don’t want to start a new thread.

A friend of mine with disabilities is looking to find an adapter kit for the Harley to VW.

We’d be happy to pay for even just measurements of the kit itself. I’m unable to follow most of the leads as when I register for the forums either the members aren’t active who have mentioned it etc

Does anyone know where I could find one?

Starfishy

Starfishy, there are a few of the VW kits that have popped up in YouTube and around, but I've never been able to find who makes them or sells them. 

But the problem that's going to be there with like the adapter kit shown above is that there is no compensator, it's direct drive between the motor and trans.

Maybe if you use a "B" motor you would not need one, but my guess is that you'll still have issues.

I've given up on making my own.  I'm going to just purchase the Morgan adapter through a Morgan dealer in Chicago.  The newer revision that Morgan has now for the compensator removed the Harley converted primary comp and replaced it with a Centa rubber rod assembly similar to the new cush drive rear hubs.

I'm going to be using a Miata 5 speed and it bolts directly to the Morgan adapter assembly and then there's a small bell housing with the compensator inside of that.

I'll be using an '02 "88 "B" motor from a Softail.  The '02 was the last year for the left side Timken bearings and they had the heavier crank, forged I believe.  I may upfront go with a big bore to around 97" and maybe later, depending on the how well it turns out, go to the S&S 124" Hot Setup.

I've also changed a few times the path of my project.  Originally it was to replicate the Morgan Three Wheeler and I have tons of parts for the rear drive setup, both if I went with a Harley style or I also have the Gold Wing GL1800 rear swingarm assembly and rear tire/wheel.

Now it's still going to be a Harley powered, but it will be a four wheeler, not three.  I plan to somewhat replicate the early 30's MG M-Type with open wheels.  I plan to do about a 10% oversize for my big fat butt and the wife's now little skinny butt!!!

This is what it may look like sometime in the future.

Imagine the Harley motor out front fully exposed with the shortened hood and grill shell just behind it.







You can see from the last picture that having it a bit bigger will be a plus for our generation of drivers... :)

I've got a MGA rear axle assembly with wire wheel hubs to rebuild and I'm picking up MGA front LH/RH spindle with brake assemblies.  Both front and rear brakes will be drums as they should stop a 1300# car very well with little wear compared to the 2000#+ MGA they used to stop.

Should be a great little bop around vehicle when done.

Good luck with your buddy's VW project.
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Dan

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bolt-on-bandito

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 06:09:58 PM »

Is this still alive? Any updates? Brand new member.
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bolt-on-bandito

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2021, 06:11:59 PM »

Not sure if you guys can see this, but i just built this, and I'm building a second one this winter. 


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dayne66

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Re: V-Twin To Car Transmission Adapter, Anyone?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2021, 11:28:12 AM »

Advanced Adapters had some adapters for a starnge project we did years ago.
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