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Author Topic: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS  (Read 4136 times)

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TonyO77

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2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« on: June 05, 2021, 01:12:06 PM »

Need to replace the cam tensioners on my 2004 103”
I don’t want to do a complete upgrade until after riding season if I don’t have to, what are my best options to replace the factory tensioners?
Any idea what special tools I would need?
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hd-dude

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2021, 04:28:31 PM »

If you are pulling it apart to change the tensioners it is foolish not to do the upgrade to the hydraulic system as its the same amount of work. You should change the inner and outer cam bearings and lifters as well. For tools you will need the cam bearing installer and remover tools and a press
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 04:58:40 PM by hd-dude »
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TonyO77

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2021, 05:16:22 PM »

Yeah, I have been doing some research and arrived at the same conclusion, probably going to do eithe S & S cam kit that has everything including cams or SE, haven’t decided yet.
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VRODDAVE

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2021, 07:02:28 PM »

When I had my 103 SEEG I did an S&S gear drive with 570 cams.   I believe it had 20k when installed and it ran like a champ for 80k following that before I crashed .   Hydraulic or spring tensioner's need to be replaced at regular intervals.   if I remember correctly run out was at .003 of an inch.  It was nice and quiet.

Just food for thought ...
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timo482

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2021, 11:33:01 PM »

change the cams.. now it needs tuning.. if you want to just do the repair.. either do new shoes and do it again in a couple years, or do the upgrade kit and get the better tensioners and better oil pump.. as soon as you start changing cams then its another several hundred dollars...

its called "mission creep"
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Twolanerider

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2021, 11:37:53 PM »

It can suck a bit having to hurry up then wait; or in this case tear things down then and only then order parts.  If you're considering going to gear drive that's not a bad idea though.  You really want to know that the runout (eccentricity of the crankshaft) isn't too great for gear drive.  Most of the 103s were ok, but some had a little wobble to them.  HD cranks got much worse shortly thereafter.

The newer cam plate kits with hydraulic tensioners and the newer oil pump are a valid consideration.  Will be a little quieter than gear drive.  You will still need to check the tensioner shoes on occasion.  Those occasions are significantly extended though.  That can even be an excuse to throw a new set of cam bearings at it every few years.  And that system is very tolerant of runout at the crank.  And while it is close to as precise for timing as the gear dive might be of course it's not completely so.  But it's such a minor difference I gave up worrying about that difference years ago and just use the hydraulic upgrade kits whenever anyone I know plies me with beer to work on their bike anymore.
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VRODDAVE

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2021, 11:59:14 PM »

That's a good point TimO,   I had forgotten about the tuning.  I had also forgot that I already had the Thundermax on the bike because it had the Rineheart true exhaust.   

 And Don,  I wish I lived near you I would keep you in suds that you would never want for beer. I would be your best buddy hahaha    I could learn so much from you.   ;D


Dave
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TonyO77

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2021, 09:33:13 AM »

I’m going to tear it down, see what it looks like and then make a decision, if the lift is already.530 that’s more than most. Definitely upgrading the oil pump and changing the bearings while I’m in there.
I’m going to change to adjustable pushrods just because it makes any work on the cam chest so much easier (pulling the fuel tank to get to the rocker boxes is my least favorite thing to do even though it’s not hard it’s just a pain in the ass)
So is there a major difference in quality from one brand of cam plate to the other or just a matter of preference?
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Twolanerider

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2021, 09:53:17 AM »

That's a good point TimO,   I had forgotten about the tuning.  I had also forgot that I already had the Thundermax on the bike because it had the Rineheart true exhaust.   

 And Don,  I wish I lived near you I would keep you in suds that you would never want for beer. I would be your best buddy hahaha    I could learn so much from you.   ;D


Dave


That would be a tough commute but you're always welcome Dave!

Jim is way closer though and he's actually a motorcycle repair rock star.  So you're good either way :2vrolijk_21: .
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08glide

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2021, 09:56:43 AM »

last year when I had warranty work on cam bearing & lifter failure I wanted the cam tensioners replaced(dealer put it back together with 50k & old tensioner shoes). they also put standard cam bearings in when I had specified screaming eagle bearings, s&s lifters. anyway, I made them pull it back out & change tensioner ( shoes is all I wanted changed) H-D will not sell just the nylon shoes. they sell the tensioner, shoes,(pump) as one ( I find out after the fact). if you go with other options (s&s, etc) you can then just order & replace the nylon shoes. this would be my choice if I'd have to do again. JMO
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Twolanerider

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2021, 09:59:20 AM »

I’m going to tear it down, see what it looks like and then make a decision, if the lift is already.530 that’s more than most. Definitely upgrading the oil pump and changing the bearings while I’m in there.
I’m going to change to adjustable pushrods just because it makes any work on the cam chest so much easier (pulling the fuel tank to get to the rocker boxes is my least favorite thing to do even though it’s not hard it’s just a pain in the ass)
So is there a major difference in quality from one brand of cam plate to the other or just a matter of preference?


Check out HD # 25284-11.  It's plate, pump, and almost everything you'll need.  Really does do a good job of getting the job done.  The kit is fair bit more expensive than when first released but it's still a cost competitive option.

One thought on your tank. If you want to make the relatively easy chore of removing the tank become an incredibly easy chore and something you can do in ten minutes put a little coupler in the crossover line.  Motion Pro offers a small sized coupler that works well but there are many options.  Being able to reach around the tank and just unplug the crossover fuel line without losing fuel makes getting the tank off so easy you'll do it just to polish the tops of the rocker boxes!
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TonyO77

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2021, 12:15:48 PM »

Outer shoe is worn and pitted BUT not completely gone, haven’t gotten to the rear shoe yet, looks like I caught it in time.
New camplate, lifters and adjustable pushrods are on the way, not changing cams, I’m happy with the performance for now, it will still smoke most newer bikes.
Thanks Twolane, if not for the suggestion to check/ replace them I coulda had a major problem.
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Twolanerider

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2021, 12:23:50 PM »

Glad you found it with lots of shoe to go.  See a few little chunks and it is hard to trust those shoes with your mileage so good deal you're in there now.  Nicely done. 

I noticed in your inbound parts list you didn't mention cam bearings.  While in that far and with your mileage they should be a strong consideration also.  You need a blind bearing puller and an install tool to manage them though.  If you don't have the tools available let me know.  Drop me mailing address in a PM and I'll loan you what you need.
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Twolanerider

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2021, 12:29:52 PM »

And....  hopefully you caught this when looking at the cheat sheet for the cam plate kit.  That kit is not complete for installation.  There's a little more you'll need.  The copied text below is from the cam plate kit's instruction sheet:

Installation requires separate purchase of Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08, Cam Service Kit P/N 17045-99D and Drive Gear Retention Kit P/N 25566-06


The "Service Kit" includes the new front bearings (the big ones).  You'll need access to a press to get the cams out and back in.  There's an alignment tool that helps there also; especially with the reassembly.  You can (probably) take your new cam plate, bearings, old cam plate, etc to your local dealer and pay them a half hour's time to swap the parts back and forth as well.  Once again, if you need to borrow something let me know.
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TonyO77

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Re: 2004 SEEG CAM TENSIONERS
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2021, 03:06:52 PM »

I ordered everything except the cam retention kit, they were out, including inner cam bearings.
I ordered the tools to do the job( you can never have too many tools).
I don’t see anywhere in the service manual where it says anything about cylinder position when installing the cams again I.e. TDC on compression etc.
So what is the deal? Just align the timing marks on the cams and outer gear?
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