Topic: need re-mapping? (Read 6167 times)

dakota · « **on:** February 11, 2005, 11:51:05 PM »

I have a stock 01' SERG with V&H's slip on's. Typically harley sets the bikes a little rich out of the box. Is it necessary to re-map mine?

starvin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2005, 01:07:42 AM »

from everything i've heard and seen the bikes are lean out of the box due to EPA emmisions. however if you only change the pipes you let more air out of the engine but by not changing the air filter you allow no more air in so you'll be OK. you will not however see a big increase in horse power. if you change your air filter and allow more air flow threw the motor you'll need to increase the fuel somehow.

kng103 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2005, 08:35:33 AM »

dakota,
if you did not change your air cleaner set up, then you do not need to remap.
however, the bikes run real lean out of the factory. even with the stage 1 reflash.

dakota · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2005, 08:48:02 AM »

thank you for the help. I thought all harleys were rich from the factory as they know you are going to change the pipes and air cleaner. I was going off my experience with my Fat Boy. It was very rich from the factory.

PCC · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2005, 01:13:18 PM »

Agree with the rest of the boys. Fuel injected bikes are quite lean from the Moco

nrotik · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2005, 04:43:16 PM »

I also heard that they run rich. So if I change the exhaust and change to the stage one air cleaner, what download is available....

kng103 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2005, 10:11:18 PM »

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I also heard that they run rich.

osmacat · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2005, 04:24:01 PM »

Had the Stage 1 download done and I didn't notice much at all. The MoCo's way of getting more money.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2005, 05:31:59 PM »

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Had the Stage 1 download done and I didn't notice much at all. The MoCo's way of getting more money.

When that was done to the red bike I actually noticed a bit of difference Cat. It was cool weather when it happened so that might account for some of it. But mine had been noticably lean, a bit of popping more than normal, and more than a bit gutless out of the hole compared to what I'd expected. The stage I download did help the lean condition and made it start better in the cool/cold weather. Was just generally a bit smoother with a bit more pep too.

I only had the download done a couple of weeks or so before the Power Commander got tuned. So it wasn't on a long time. But it was noticable (at least in a 41-50 degree ambient temerature range) .

MObe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2005, 02:15:55 AM »

I have the RT on mine and I fattened up the low to mid range to make the bike run a bit cooler. This helped some.
My bike has always had a problem with pinging when the temp is above 85 or so especially if I get caught in town at a few lights. My dealer says it's my imagination, I say, BS, I know detonation when I hear it.
I have never really been able to get it to stop to my satisfaction.
I was fooling around with the race tuner some this evening and thought that I would fatten up the cranking fuel table as my bike takes a couple of seconds of cranking when hot to get started.
While I was messing with that I noticed an accel enrichment table and a decel derichment table. I fattened up the accel enrichment table, and I couldn't believe the difference in the way my bike ran. It really has a lot more snap now and so far no detonation. I'm thinking that the accel enrichment table acts like the accel pump on a carbed bike, and by fattening it up, enough extra fuel is added that when I gas it, it stops the detonation at throttle roll on. I'm sure that the MOCO mapped this accel enrichment as lean as possible to meet emissions.
The bike feels like it's running down hill now.
I might try to fatten it up a bit more just to ee wht happens but I'm really happy with the way it runs right now.
I'm thinking that the decel derichment table would be handy if a guy was having a problem with popping on decel.
Of course I could always take some time and read the instructions for the race tuner! [smiley=dunce2.gif]

Twolanerider · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2005, 10:40:33 AM »

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MAVERICK · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2005, 05:06:59 PM »

I have a question on remapping. I see posts here at the site about the stage 1 remap from HD. I installed a high flow air filter and a 2 into one exhaust on my bike plus a power commander and had it mapped without the so called stage 1 ECM from HD in the bike. Later when I stopped by the local Harley Dealer I went in to the parts department and asked to purchase a stage 1 download for my 103. They looked at me like I was from Mars and didnt have a clue to what I was talking about. I then went into the service department and asked the same question. They told me that they got the download from the Internet based by the vin number of the motorcycle. What I was trying to do was raise the redline of the bike from 5700 to 6200 rpm. They told me that my bike had the latest map from the factory and all they could do was try and install a custom map to raise the rev limiter. So they downloaded some custom maps and tried to install them. Later I heard the bike on the Dyno. It didnt work. Rumor has it that for right now that the race turner from Harley is the only way to change the rev limiter. One more question trying to install the custom maps will this change the settings of the power commander even if the maps didnt take?

MAVERICK · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2005, 10:11:34 AM »

I received my 103 download cartridge yesterday from UPS. I ordered the part online from
Surdyke Harley Davidson. Even after shipping it saved me $ 23.00 over the harley shop in Houston. They had it to me in about 10 days.

[smiley=biggthumpup.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Unbalanced · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:22:22 PM »

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MObe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2005, 02:58:39 AM »

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Mobe,

I am curious where did you find this accell and decell enrichment table in the race tuner.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2005, 11:40:28 AM »

Mobe,

I have version 4.1.0 build date sept 13, 2004

I do not have this option in my software even with the tuning file you proposed. I am wondering if it is based on software versioning as I do not have the otpion seen at this time or enabled at this time.

Could you go to the tuning mode software and go to help then about and tell me the version of the software you have and the build date.

I am trying to figure out now whats different between what you have and what I have.

Thanks in advance,

Hotrodracer · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2005, 08:38:31 PM »

I talked with the guy (Red) that does the dyno tunning at The Woodlands HD store (Houston) the other day about the ECM on my 05 FBSE. He said that he could do a custom map on my bike and flash the ECM to change it. This would be RACE TUNNING and that I would not need any Power Commander or anything else like that. I have also talked with a lot of other people about ECM's & what can be done with them. What I have found out is that our ECM's are like the ones on cars they can be reprogramed and with the new settings will act like normal. That means that they will change the settings as needed ie. weather ect.

Have set mine up to be done this week. When finished I will let everyone know how it does.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2005, 09:01:30 PM »

Yes HotRod you can / they can do this and that is what I have already done. however what I am missing is 2 settings / configurations options that Mobe is seeing from within the software that came with my purchase 4 moths ago. I am presuming that his software also came with his race tuner.

I would like to make the modifications that he (Mobe) has already tinkered with, but I don't have the options from within my software.

HotRod
Before they install the software and dyno tune your bike make sure you get a dyno sheet that includes air / fuel ratios in SAE format not Standard and done in 4th Gear NOT 5th. Personally I would want smoothing at no greater than 2 (can go as high as 5 with dynojet dyno) so you have an accurate picture of how well the dyno tuning has helped you.

I have many many custom maps for the SE 103 from a very rich one to a very lean one as well as many of the changes we made along the way just to give baseline for making changes on my own.

Hotrod, if you're buying the race tuner make sure that they give you a copy of the Map in MT5 format that they make for you for your bike. This will enable you to make changes or bring it somewhere else if you ever want to modify it again and not have to start from scratch.

Best of Luck with your Tuning

We look forward to seeing your Dyno Sheets of before and after

Unbalanced · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2005, 09:10:41 PM »

Mobe,

Here is what I see when I go to the area you described I also added in the help / about picture of the version of the software I have.

Thanks again,

[smiley=worthless.gif]

MObe · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2005, 11:44:16 PM »

Quote

Mobe,

I have version 4.1.0 build date sept 13, 2004

I do not have this option in my software even with the tuning file you proposed.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2005, 12:01:49 PM »

Mobe,

That is what I suspected was the answer. I am trying right now to locate the newest software through 2 different dealships that I can either have or make a copy of.

I appreciate your help in identifying what it is that I need to get.

Many thanks,

Unbalanced · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2005, 02:50:39 PM »

Et All,

Beware buying your race tuner make sure you get the latest software because it will be hellish trying to get it. The latest software is 4.1.2 January 2005 release.

I never thought this would be so difficult. Well getting the software in an original form seems to be a HUGE issue. So, I called the MOTO Corp. I am now waiting for the Customer Service Manager to call me back Rusty Dwire. They will not give me his bosses name. They want to charge me 20.00 per CD to update my package that I bought less the 4 months ago that came with Sept 04 software. Hell I bought both my new race tuners in March / April and should have gotten the newest software with them not the stuff they had sitting on the shelf. Lets see if Rusty calls me back I am taking bets on the case that he doesnt call me at all.

/Frustrated consumer.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2005, 03:17:59 PM »

Quote

Et All,

Beware buying your race tuner make sure you get the latest software because it will be hellish trying to get it.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2005, 10:46:07 PM »

Twolanerider, I so agree with almost everything you said in its entirety. Although the RT may actually work in regards to the pump or pulling fuel off on decelleration and if that is the case then it does more for me than the power commander would have based on the opinions and some of the things I have read and seen posted here on the site. That being said it could be all worth while or at least I will keep telling myself this until I actually get to see it for myself. (makes me swallow this waste of time without wanting to hurt someone)
I am yet to hear anyone say that the accell pump on the PC actually works as advertised . Some of the people have it off and can tell no difference. Unfortunately the PC I own is not the usb edition with the fuel pump, so I can not check it for myself or I would. The quest for the answer though isnt worth 279.00 plus shipping and paying someone for the dyno time to know.

Status update,

What an afternoon of utter frustration. It seems that Rusty Dwire actually may end up delivering. It took a while to sway him as he wanted to make sure the dealership that I was dealing with had the correct software. He put me on hold this time on his nickel and called them and had them do the upgrade of their software to the latest software while I was on the phone to be sure I wasn't wasting more time when I went there the end of the week. Now the package is open the software is open and yet they woudlnt give me this open package while they would wait for another replacement to come in. Ugghh why not its already opened the dealship could wait vs. another inconvienance to me. (didnt work)

He just couldn't understand why I would want my own copy or why I just had to have these features. Keeping this in mind I said if the features weren't at all important why was there an update and these features added.
Obviously someone felt them important enough with backfiring on decelleration and accelleration issues that they may be needed. He pretty much even said the new air cleaners in the SE Kit are to pass EPA vs. the old K&N ones. Be Aware that if you buy the new SCREAMING EAGLE AIR CLEANER you no long get a K&N Filter with it. He then proceeded to tell me that these features I desire will will not work in an 04 bike, but will in the 05 bike.

I personally am finding that hard to believe, because when I put my 04 on the data gathering software I see changes happening in accell and decell columns. I will let you know when I get the software if he was just blowing smoke to try and not send 2 copies.

Now on to the frustration boiling point. When I had spoke to the original women she said they had the copies and were willing to sell them to me for$20.00 each, but when Rusty got involved there were 3 already back ordered and they supposedly had none and he had no idea when they would produce more, but that he would send me a copy of the most up to date software.

He pretty much has agreed to send me 1 copy not 2, but I really only need 1 so the war seems to have been won with a small concession of 1 copy vs. 2.

I sit here tonight and still can not believe it took 5 hours and 3 long distance long phone calls to get him to promise to cough up an up to date copy of the software that I should have gotten in the first place and without such a hassle. He finally agreed that it shouldn't have taken this much effort which was little consolation after the fact.

/wooopie a concession

Twolanerider · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2005, 01:07:36 AM »

Good grief UB, that's incredible. Completely and totally without justification that a consumer has to go through that much grief just to get a damn disc; that they still haven't supplied to you yet.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2005, 03:08:52 PM »

All I say to your comments TwoLane is AMEN

Coolbreeze · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2005, 07:22:38 PM »

How sad... It sounds like my dealership has now diversified and opened up a sulocated franchise! My heart goes out to you... [smiley=cry2.gif]

Hotrodracer · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2005, 07:38:05 PM »

Ck this system out http://www.highperformanceproducts.com/twincam.html
I have talked with Gary about his system and it seem like one of the best I have foun so far. Also if you have any questions you can email him and he will call you back.

Unbalanced, ck him out & let us know what you think...

Unbalanced · « **Reply #28 on:** August 03, 2005, 09:48:04 PM »

HotRod,

I looked at the dyno sheets he has online and they are honestly horrible to nothing special fuel curves not a single one is flat on the ones he has listed. To be honest if he is posting stuff that isnt even top notch as his advertisement to gain business I really wouldnt be interested in going further.

I would expect someone who is showing off his product to have FLAT fuel lines and decent numbers.

just my 2 coppers.

Hotrodracer · « **Reply #29 on:** August 04, 2005, 10:19:43 PM »

Thanks for your reply!!! I am looking for the best way to go. Am leaning toward the RT with dyno tune( I just hate to spend $700.00) to make something run right that should have been done at the factory.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #30 on:** August 07, 2005, 05:59:27 PM »

HotRod,

Over the past weekend I had an opportunity to play with the newest Power Commander and I saw some difference in it and the Race Tuners tuning abilities. I wasnt playing it with it because I wanted to, but because I was trying to diagnose a ping in the top end. I still have the ping, but my fuel curve was flatter than it was with Race Tuner and the Torque came in a bit sooner. The numbers while not impressive were still a smidge better for less money with the same guy doing the tuning. My best suggestion to you is to get a stage1 download and then implement the Power Commander so you can at least get home if the Power Commander ever dies on you.

Hope this helps,

This was the PCIII usb version. You can buy it online for under 300 dollars. Download is i think around 160 dollars and then whatever your tuner charges I am guesstimating around 250 dollars.

Hotrodracer · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2005, 07:26:23 PM »

Unbalanced

Thanks for the info on the power commander.

On friday I got the R/t (6/05 release date Ver 4.1.2) and had the bike tuned on the dyno. Got the power to 96.29 at 5600 and the torque to 101.89. Still have a little popping on decel at high speed. Overall performance was improved and no nore flat spots.

I have 12 sheets of dyno runs to look at. Overall I guess I am pleased with the results (for now).

Over Labor day I have a 1500 to 1800 mile trip planned & that will tell me how please I am.

Thanks for the info.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #32 on:** August 08, 2005, 08:23:13 AM »

HotRod,

I am glad to hear you got it all squared away. You / your tuner obtained better numbers than most have gotten. I would love to see your dyno sheet (hint)

http://flhrsei.org/YaBBImages/smilies/worthless.gif
worthless

By the way they can get rid of the popping on decell by using the decell table to remove some fuel when you decell at different ranges of temp. Your tuner has to have used an A map. I would let your tuner know that the decell popping is happening. .

Hotrodracer · « **Reply #33 on:** August 08, 2005, 04:56:03 PM »

Ok if I can get this to work here are the dyno sheete before & after.

Author Topic: need re-mapping? (Read 6167 times)

starvin