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[kraut]

Hmmm, I'm afraid warranty and ESP will be affected by this mod.

Still would like to know what in detail they do change with the ECM ...

[cvobiker]

 I'm ready to give this product a try given I can purchase thru Jenni. Does Drag have this yet? Anyone have the Drag part number?

[Twolanerider]

I'm ready to give this product a try given I can purchase thru Jenni. Does Drag have this yet? Anyone have the Drag part number?

I don't know the Drag part number but have been told by the people at Rev Performance that they are in the Drag catalog now and have inventory in the system.  Worst case effort would be giving them a call to ask for the Drag part #.

[Dennis the Menace]

Kraut, I do not know what all ECM mods might be done, but do know that RevPerf has 1000's of maps for 100's of different motor configs built over the years, and they are dyno tested (info direct for RevPerf).  I know that a map load with as close to your particular setup is done.  Beyond that, not sure, but there are apparently some adjustments in the Delphi units that allow RevPerf to optimize the inputs from their add-on tuner box and widebands for the tune.

The critical piece, according to Brian and his engineer I spoke with, is the injector.  If its changed out, the ECM will need to be sent in to be updated.  So, I presume the accurate fuel pulse width/timing is what they are likely making either more efficient or more accurate.  This would make sense, since the EMS box plugs between the O2 lines and the wideband O2's that come in the kit.  I presume there is very precise O2 readings taken and fed back to the ECM for the AF/MAP/VE calcs and adjustments.

Again, this is a guess, as it is proprietary whatever it is they do.

Dennis

[Heatwave]

Kraut, I do not know what all ECM mods might be done, but do know that RevPerf has 1000's of maps for 100's of different motor configs built over the years, and they are dyno tested (info direct for RevPerf).  I know that a map load with as close to your particular setup is done.  Beyond that, not sure, but there are apparently some adjustments in the Delphi units that allow RevPerf to optimize the inputs from their add-on tuner box and widebands for the tune.

The critical piece, according to Brian and his engineer I spoke with, is the injector.  If its changed out, the ECM will need to be sent in to be updated.  So, I presume the accurate fuel pulse width/timing is what they are likely making either more efficient or more accurate.  This would make sense, since the EMS box plugs between the O2 lines and the wideband O2's that come in the kit.  I presume there is very precise O2 readings taken and fed back to the ECM for the AF/MAP/VE calcs and adjustments.

Again, this is a guess, as it is proprietary whatever it is they do.

Dennis

Sending in your bike's ECM for unspecificed changes and then re-inserting it back into your bike seems like a recipe for disaster. Who's going to fix the bike if it turns out that there's a problem with the ECU coding. A dealer certainly won't touch it. Is this company going to send a mechanic to diagnose the problem if it's related to the ECU? At least with every other tuning option on the market you can either remove it from the bike or reflash the ECU back to an earlier tuning map. This whole approach to tuning seems very risky to me in the long run.

[Twolanerider]

Sending in your bike's ECM for unspecificed changes and then re-inserting it back into your bike seems like a recipe for disaster. Who's going to fix the bike if it turns out that there's a problem with the ECU coding. A dealer certainly won't touch it. Is this company going to send a mechanic to diagnose the problem if it's related to the ECU? At least with every other tuning option on the market you can either remove it from the bike or reflash the ECU back to an earlier tuning map. This whole approach to tuning seems very risky to me in the long run.

Have spoken with the vendor about this.  The area of the ECM they are writing to is the same area we would write to if using SERT or TTS.  Their work also does not effect the use of a SERT or TTS other tuning device that could write to the ECM. 

So if you had a SERT or SSERT or TTS or whatever and were, therefore, able to tweak a map or load a different map on your own at home you could still do the same thing after Revolution Performance loaded their map.  Were the bike running well I'm not sure why you would.  But you could.  Your ability to address the ECM with any tuning tool you might have isn't changed.  The Daytona Twin Tec tool for reading the ECM, accessing codes and doing a few other things also still works as it did before.

[Heatwave]

Have spoken with the vendor about this.  The area of the ECM they are writing to is the same area we would write to if using SERT or TTS.  Their work also does not effect the use of a SERT or TTS other tuning device that could write to the ECM. 

So if you had a SERT or SSERT or TTS or whatever and were, therefore, able to tweak a map or load a different map on your own at home you could still do the same thing after Revolution Performance loaded their map.  Were the bike running well I'm not sure why you would.  But you could.  Your ability to address the ECM with any tuning tool you might have isn't changed.  The Daytona Twin Tec tool for reading the ECM, accessing codes and doing a few other things also still works as it did before.

Then I clearly don't understand what they are doing to the ECU. What you just described sounds like they are simply loading a different map. If it's something more than that then it will still be present on the ECU should their be a problem and a dealership needs to examine the ECU. No I'm afraid this all sounds abit to cryptic from my perspective. In the absence of knowing "exactly" what is being changed on the ECU, I would be very skeptical, but to each his own.

[hogasm]

Then I clearly don't understand what they are doing to the ECU. What you just described sounds like they are simply loading a different map. If it's something more than that then it will still be present on the ECU should their be a problem and a dealership needs to examine the ECU. No I'm afraid this all sounds abit to cryptic from my perspective. In the absence of knowing "exactly" what is being changed on the ECU, I would be very skeptical, but to each his own.

Then do what I did. Purchased another ECM [$50] from someone who changed to a Thundermax and paid the tech at the Dealership[[$25] to match it to my scoot.

Now I have $75 tied up into a spare ECM. Since I do not have warranty left it was not done for that reason...but for someone who is scared to death of the dealer screwing his azz.....well there you go.....easy inexpensive solution to cover your assets

[guppytrash]

Then do what I did. Purchased another ECM [$50] from someone who changed to a Thundermax and paid the tech at the Dealership[[$25] to match it to my scoot.

Now I have $75 tied up into a spare ECM. Since I do not have warranty left it was not done for that reason...but for someone who is scared to death of the dealer screwing his azz.....well there you go.....easy inexpensive solution to cover your assets

Thats what I was thinking! 
Honestly most here have enough mods already it's too late, if I were worried about the warranty I would leave it bone stock!   
30% of the HD's own catalog will void your warranty.
It's why I did not buy the ESP. 
The dealer I bought my 2008 from loved to tell me what was going to void my warranty.  I no longer buy anything from them.  He told me if I installed my own hand grips he could no longer cover the TBW under warranty...I laughed in his face.

This will not be for everyone, but it may be a darn good option for those who are trying to get cooler/better running machines.  Time will tell.

[Heatwave]

Thats what I was thinking! 
Honestly most here have enough mods already it's too late, if I were worried about the warranty I would leave it bone stock!   
30% of the HD's own catalog will void your warranty.
It's why I did not buy the ESP. 
The dealer I bought my 2008 from loved to tell me what was going to void my warranty.  I no longer buy anything from them.  He told me if I installed my own hand grips he could no longer cover the TBW under warranty...I laughed in his face.

This will not be for everyone, but it may be a darn good option for those who are trying to get cooler/better running machines.  Time will tell.

Forget about the warranty. I'm just talking about someone being willing to fix a bike that's showing that it's ECU has been modified significantly in ways that go beyond tuning map variables. Good luck once someone connects the bike to a diagnostic tool. Has anyone attached one of these modified ECUs to a Harley Dealership diagnostic tool to see what kind of "codes" it kicks out?

[guppytrash]

You may have a good point Heatwave.  Again, I think a spare ECU would be a good solution.

Time will tell. 

I sure like the "idea" of how it works.  To early to throw it under the bus or to endorse it IMHOP.

It always leaves me scratchin' my bald head with how passionate/heated the EFI tuner debates always become here at CVOHARLEY.



 

 





 

   

[grc]

I haven't been following this thread, and haven't really researched the product, but just on the surface it appears to me to be very similar to the "wide band" T-Max system, except it uses the stock ECM instead of the T-Max ECM.  Both have separate modules for the "wide band" sensors, both are dependent upon base maps that just as likely don't exactly match your bike, etc.  At least with the T-Max you can make the adjustments to various parameters yourself, without shipping the ECM back to the company.  Is Rev Perf going to include the software to allow you to do this yourself, or do you have to ship the ECM back to them every time you want to make a change?  Or do you spend additional money to buy a TTS so you can tweak the other settings (and possibly screw up whatever Rev Perf did in this first place)?  The SEST and TTS let you change settings for the injectors, for instance, but I just read something in this thread that indicated you have to send the ECM back to Rev Perf if you change injectors.  What's up with that?

Twolane, you've always been one of the first to tell folks that "autotune" isn't really automatic tuning, that it only chases an AFR set in the coding of the map and doesn't deal with timing, and is highly dependent on an accurate base map.  That is an opinion I fully share.  What is there about this system that makes you think it's any different?  I'm confused.


Jerry

[hd-dude]

I'll chime in here...... When this first became available Rev was trying to get me to try it but I was also apprehensive. In many further discussion's with them decided to give it a try. I discussed it with Ernie as we have been dissatisfied with the performance of the twin tec and we gave it a try. As Ernie stated the system performs well right out of the box. There are some very distinct differences between this and the other auto tunes on the market. What Rev has done is basically cracked the code in the factory Delphi ECM. This has allowed them to rewrite the algorithms that control the system and to incorporate real time input from the wide band 02 sensors. They have changed and added to the adaptive leaning tables to allow for wider range of adjustments and faster responses. The system is in closed loop almost full time. The times when it is in open loop is: during the first 30 seconds of startup as the 02 sensors need to heat up, Cold Start, Hard Acceleration, or rapid Deceleration.

They have done extensive testing with the system and have found that you can basically do changes up to about 20% and the system will adapt.

 I have another project that I am using the system on. More feedback to follow........

Here is a link of comparisons between this system and other on the market:

http://www.revperf.com/Precision/compare.html


EDIT: Forgot to add that the changes that they do to the ECM does not prevent the HD Digital tech from reading the trouble codes or perform other digital tech functions from working properly. Needing service on the road would not be a problem if the dealer need the digital tech. Also the DTT Twin Scan unit will still read and clear codes...

[cvobiker]

Then do what I did. Purchased another ECM [$50] from someone who changed to a Thundermax and paid the tech at the Dealership[[$25] to match it to my scoot.

Now I have $75 tied up into a spare ECM. Since I do not have warranty left it was not done for that reason...but for someone who is scared to death of the dealer screwing his azz.....well there you go.....easy inexpensive solution to cover your assets

Exactly what I did.... Got one on eBay $75 bucks last week 

[hogasm]

Exactly what I did.... Got one on eBay $75 bucks last week 

Now if you are in good standings with a tech at the dealership have him/her set it up with your scoot