www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: JCZ on May 27, 2018, 10:24:08 AM
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I joined this forum in 2003 and the large majority of posts were positive, upbeat and happy. Most were about mods or trips planned, GTGs (Get Togethers, if you're new here) and generally upbeat.
Lately, gradually at first but more so, I'd say in the past two or three years I've seen that go down hill. A casual observation, not something I was really looking for.....it just kind of became more and more obvious to me. Fewer and Fewer group rides, less interest in participating, more and more negative posts of bad news and generally a sense of unhappy or uneasy about their CVO.
This morning I clicked on "Show unread posts since last visit" like I usually do. Not near as many threads or posts as their used to be years back and just about two thirds of the threads are negative....."sumped again......", "Harley sales down......", "4th Engine in my......", "Harley sales go from bad to worse.....", etc. etc.
Our economy is up, unemployment down so can't blame it on a recession or depression this time. Where does it lye? When will the MoCo wake up and realize that while they focus on the immediate return to their own pockets and that of the stock holeders long term, they're running this train full speed right in to the ground.
The million dollar question......will they wake up and pay attention to their customers before it's to late? Will they focus on reliability, modern technology, their customers and make these things their priority and that in turn will carry the MoCo long term? Like everybody, I have my thoughts and opinions on this......
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I just think it's one of those cycles... ;D
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I'm sure there is no one answer for all the issues mentioned.
Things like not many founding family members left to handle the day to day business, don't know how many decision makers are life long bikers that have a personal stake in the brand name or it's legacy. The fact that they must be business types first who look at H-D as a global business not just USA product so try to increase sales and in turn profits with growing overseas markets.
Then you had the marketing juggernaut of H-D that sold itself on years of nostalgia and tradition butting heads with government regulations on pollution and noise etc. and I bet that can interfere with a motor that was great for 1936 but now is difficult to comply with modern standards. They had a very loyal group of owners who romanticized their experience on a Harley and were very resistant to change.
That group of core riders are now aging out of riding or are finally tired of the higher and higher cost of buying new with all it's malfunctions and costs involved.
Harley did probably shoot itself in the foot with having the CVO line join the regular line in 2010 and it then became a trim package and could no longer sell riders on the mystique of a hand built bike that was worth the money.
In my opinion H-D needs to make bikes affordable to younger riders and make them turnkey bikes that you just buy and ride without having to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to run right or be useful. They also need to be competitive with horsepower and performance to build long term fans. It may mean having to break with us old timers who are set in our ways with air cooled v-twins though.
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JC, I am happy with my CVO, it’s about just where I want it. I have all the clothing and “stuff” I need. Keeping the CVO, but like you my next bike will be foreign.
Over the years I too have seen the GTGs drop off. Those were my favorite thing to do. Lately participation in the GTGs and MITMs have fallen off. I understand why, people have lives, kids, grandkids, jobs (unlike you retireees). Also the bigger groups have splintered off for convienence. By that I mean expecting a large number of bikes to head to Yellowstone at one time is difficult given what I said earlier. So the few that can do. The rest break into smaller groups and ride when it best fits their calendar.
Like you and many others, I too have had my share of planning large GTGs. So for now I plan simple rides with my splintered group, and invite everyone else to join if they can. This takes the pressure off from finding a block of rooms, securing a group rate, planning both long and short routes, finding dinner locations, designing and ordering t-shirts, bike games and all of that.
This year I have Yosemite planned in June. It’s posted in the ride forum, if folks can fit it in their calendar great. Next year I’m thinking either Glacier National Park, or back to Sedona, AZ. I’ll post that too, if it fits in people’s calendar great.
I’d love to see everyone, but I understand, folks have lives and conflicts.
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I just think it's one of those cycles... ;D
I agree. Imagine what this forum would have looked like in the AMF days.
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JC, not been around no where near as long as you or most here (2012), but yes there are a lot of negative post, and will step on somes toes I am sure, but look at society in general anymore seems there is sure a lot of negativity in general. I get irradiated at work pretty regularly with all the negative people. I tell people at work quite often when they go to bitching that they made a choice when they walked through the door, and if that makes them unhappy then stop walking through the door and find something different to do. We all have our grips but we still make the choice. Some work in jobs they hate, some rides motorcycles the want to complain about, others can't stand what the wife cooked for supper. But all made a choice.
Me personally I enjoyed this forum, when there's a problem, there are still people here who will take the time to help and help you spend your money...lol. I enjoy seeing others travels and thank you and all the others for posting and sharing. I hope I live long enough and my health allows me to visit some of the places the family here has shown me.
Really enjoy what's shared here, I just skip the negative parts
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I agree. Imagine what this forum would have looked like in the AMF days.
Maybe it's worse than AMF days !
Certainly no excuse of worn out tooling due to lack of inward investment etc etc
After the 110 motors woes, maybe this M8 a fail too far for many ?
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I can tolerate MoCo design mistakes quickly and ethically corrected. Unfortunately they have taken a different path over the past 15-20 years. I think we gripe because we care about this brand and US manufacturing. I still enjoy my CVO but have no interest in buying another Harley as things are.
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Motorcycle sales are down, fewer new riders translates into fewer bikes sold. A lot of us here - I joined in 2007 - have had multiple HDs & we tend to remember "the best one(s)" but forget the time/effort/blood sweat/tears/$$$$ it took to get that bike into that shape. HDs have had issues ever since I was aware of HD as a company. Oil leakers, part failures, system failures, etc., etc. Not every bike, but generally problematic. Now it's perceived as worse than it once was. What happened?
Cars & other stuff got a lot better, fewer failures. HD failure rate got some better, but not enough. Meanwhile prices rise, buyers get older (and wiser) and expect more because the other stuff they have with engines does not mirror their experience with HD. Bikes got more complicated, more chit to break than they used to have.
My other theory is, average riders got older. We enjoy yelling "get off my porch" at whatever. HD makes itself an easy target. Customer service just about anywhere ain't what it used to be. Would be easy enough for HD to set itself apart from that crowd - so far they do not do enough in that regard. Part of their problem is people - as a society we are just not as customer service oriented as we once were.
As HD goes further into shrink mode I wonder what the end result will be. Hope they do not sell out to a megacorp, troubles would be compounded then.
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The "mood" of the forum changed as the quality and design issues increased and Harley's customer service got worse, and that's to be expected. In the beginning it was like JC said, people talking about things like get-togethers and modifications. It slowly changed into more and more threads about unresolved quality and customer service issues, until it has reached it's current state of being more about failures, how to try to prevent them, etc. I'm not sure why anyone would find this unusual. People who are experiencing multiple failures and lack of reliability with any product are more likely to want to talk about those things than they would be to come on a site and just talk about mods or trips. If the product that's the focus of a forum is of high quality and is made and sold by an outstanding company, discussions on such a forum will likely be much more positive. If the product is of low quality and reliability, made and sold by a company that only provides lip service instead of timely resolution of issues and true customer service, the negative stuff will naturally increase. Don't blame the people on the forum. As I mention on many tech threads, look for the root cause, not the symptoms.
JMHO - Jerry
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The "mood" of the forum changed as the quality and design issues increased and Harley's customer service got worse, and that's to be expected. In the beginning it was like JC said, people talking about things like get-togethers and modifications. It slowly changed into more and more threads about unresolved quality and customer service issues, until it has reached it's current state of being more about failures, how to try to prevent them, etc. I'm not sure why anyone would find this unusual. People who are experiencing multiple failures and lack of reliability with any product are more likely to want to talk about those things than they would be to come on a site and just talk about mods or trips. If the product that's the focus of a forum is of high quality and is made and sold by an outstanding company, discussions on such a forum will likely be much more positive. If the product is of low quality and reliability, made and sold by a company that only provides lip service instead of timely resolution of issues and true customer service, the negative stuff will naturally increase. Don't blame the people on the forum. As I mention on many tech threads, look for the root cause, not the symptoms.
JMHO - Jerry
Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it. I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product. I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....
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Owning over 50% of the domestic market, inexplicable customer loyalty that was the envy of the corporate world, great marketing and branding of the product, demand greater than supply...these are what made HD so successful. Add to that the post AMF reinvention just happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the largest generation's peak spending years. It was the perfect storm for financial success. But sadly, this is now what's killing it. With such success, the MoCo had no motivation to try harder. The result? They started taking customers for granted and became fat and lazy.
The people on this forum are/were HD's most rabid customers. If the "tone" of the posts have changed, I'd attribute that to product quality above anything else. The posts started going south with the introduction of the 110 and continued down a negative path with the M8 issues.
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Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it. I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product. I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....
You did say it quite well JC, I just thought I'd reinforce the point. I've seen other threads where people with valid gripes have been criticized for speaking out instead of just being positive, and your thread seemed like a good opportunity to restate how I feel about the subject.
Jerry
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So it comes down to: its hard to be positive and up beat, to want to go to GTGs, when you have no confidence in a $40k machine you just bought. It’s hard to be positive when your new bike spends more time in the shop than on the road.
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Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it. I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product. I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....
JC, I am probably the one that took it wrong, or at least posted it wrong. I fully agree with the quality of what we buy. If it is bought as garage candy then its a good ride, but if you bought it to ride then we will have to fix it to where we can ride it. How many of us used to have to throw an oil pan under the bike to keep the the garage floor clean? I bet a good portion of us did. I wonder why we bought another one? Did we expect it to be better? Yep probably so, and we also probably believe the next 2 we bought after that would be better. They had to be a little better. I no longer have to put an oil pan under the bike. Once HD went public and the share holder took over did we really think it would get better? HD has had one of the best marketing scams there ever was, they poured the Kool Aid and we drank. I can help to believe that the family knew the scam was running to a close, so they took the share holder money as well as ours. Like most of us my 09 has very little Harley left except for the badges on the tank, and figure they will sooner or later fall off. Would I buy another? Who knows but if I do I will knowing that sooner or later the only thing left on it HD will be the badges on the tank, just like what I ride now. I probably missed my earlier post. I knew it was a money pit when I bought it and bought it anyway. That choice is on me not HD. I just need to figure out what is in the Kool Aid
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The koolaid is the vision of freedom on the road, which can be had with any motorcycle. It all depends on the flavor you want. American in leather, Euro in cordura, or Japanese in ballistic nylon. But it’s hard to be free when your bike is in the shop for sumping, lifters, gasket leaks, runout, compensators and all that.
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The koolaid is the vision of freedom on the road, which can be had with any motorcycle. It all depends on the flavor you want. American in leather, Euro in cordura, or Japanese in ballistic nylon. But it’s hard to be free when your bike is in the shop for sumping, lifters, gasket leaks, runout, compensators and all that.
Totally agree with that post. Wife pokes fun at me from time to time over the statement you made. While out riding we see people on all kinds and type and the comment is usually made at some point through the day about how it doesn't matter what they ride they are on 2 wheels....then she will ask about buying a goldwing and I start eating my words...lol. More Kool Aid
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I always kinda felt "Polly Anna" here posting all the mods, rides and passion I have for Harley and honestly felt terrible posting all the problems I have had with the 3 blown motors in the last few months. I stopped posting updates with my M8 because its just bad news all around and I didn't want to be negative with all my posts and bum anyone else out. I don't think you could drink more Kool Aid than I have in the last 22 years I have been riding Harleys exclusively. Unfortunately going through what I have this year has changed that a bit for me and I will be doing what I thought I would never do-buy a BMW. My 12 Roadglide is running great and I always intend to have a CVO Harley but this situation has forced me to "open my eyes" to other brands. No doubt if I didn't go through what I did with 3 motors sumping in 2 months I never would have set the Kool Aid down but it did.
This to me is exactly what JC and others in this post are talking about. When I read others posts about their motors sumping and getting new motors and the crazy stories the MOCO is telling them (same as they did with me) it kills me. Their stories are exactly same as mine and it is just a complete shame that this is happening to a group of such loyal and passionate ambassadors of the brand. Just have to hope they will stop making excuses and blaming others and engineer the correction for this new motor so we can all get back to chugging the sauce..
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I always kinda felt "Polly Anna" here posting all the mods, rides and passion I have for Harley and honestly felt terrible posting all the problems I have had with the 3 blown motors in the last few months. I stopped posting updates with my M8 because its just bad news all around and I didn't want to be negative with all my posts and bum anyone else out. I don't think you could drink more Kool Aid than I have in the last 22 years I have been riding Harleys exclusively. Unfortunately going through what I have this year has changed that a bit for me and I will be doing what I thought I would never do-buy a BMW. My 12 Roadglide is running great and I always intend to have a CVO Harley but this situation has forced me to "open my eyes" to other brands. No doubt if I didn't go through what I did with 3 motors sumping in 2 months I never would have set the Kool Aid down but it did.
This to me is exactly what JC and others in this post are talking about. When I read others posts about their motors sumping and getting new motors and the crazy stories the MOCO is telling them (same as they did with me) it kills me. Their stories are exactly same as mine and it is just a complete shame that this is happening to a group of such loyal and passionate ambassadors of the brand. Just have to hope they will stop making excuses and blaming others and engineer the correction for this new motor so we can all get back to chugging the sauce..
Faded memories of when the kool-aide was really good......my pan/shovel.
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Even in the days of the Evo motor.....when we "thought" we had problems (nothing compared to today's problems)....faded memories of the good kool aide days....
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Even in the days of the Evo motor.....when we "thought" we had problems (nothing compared to today's problems)....faded memories of the good kool aide days....
Great photos ...took me back to the good old days.....Low tech ....carbonated and easy to maintain
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I joined this forum in 2014 and was the first to have the SE 117 kit installed. I got lots of positive comments but a lot of negative comments too. Screamin' Eagle parts are inferior; the 270 cam isnt as good as the S&S cams; my lifters are going to blow; the kit might not last 5000 miles and more. After a bit, I worried that the cylinders were warped, cams were inferior, engine would blow up. I mean really worried from all the negative stuff I saw on this forum. I even commented about it to a few members. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I have no complaints about Harley-Davidson. My 2014 Breakout is my third Harley. Never an issue with any Harley I owned with the exception of a gasket leak once in a blue moon. My 117 kit has 8000 miles without a hiccup. Every time I ride I get a thumbs up, smiles, and positive comments about the paint job, wheels, etc. on my CVO.
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Great photos ...took me back to the good old days.....Low tech ....carbonated and easy to maintain
And that's the issue that HD is having. The more they "improve" the product, the more problems they have. Now granted they have to improve to meet all the regulations and guidelines. But by and large none of the other bike makers seem to have the wholesale issues HD is having.
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I feel the pain for all of you that have problems, I am a diehard Harley rider and will stay that way. If something breaks, I get it fixed. I ride Harleys for the fellowship and make instant friends no matter where I ride in this great country. After 45 years of riding and owning 27 bikes, half being Harleys since the 90's that's where I'm at. If there are less diehards out there, so be it.
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Even in the days of the Evo motor.....when we "thought" we had problems (nothing compared to today's problems)....faded memories of the good kool aide days....
Great pics JC!! And every time you mounted that beast whatever problems there was for the day magical went away.
Guy living across the street still rides his Evo from time to time and every time he rolls it out of the garage and starts it I want to throw rocks at my 09. Just can't beat that sound
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Like many of you I have ridden Harleys for a long time, and I will continue to do so until I can't ride any more. I like my CVO and as a matter fact we just bought a 2013 SERK for my wife last week. Yep they have some problems, some of those problems are also self induced. Engine mods to go faster, sound better and so on have some inherent risk. I am in process of going 117 so I am in that boat too. But "Stage" upgrades cost money and with a 110 or M8's it's already pretty big considering the rather old platform of it's basic engineering.
Everybody gets on here and belly aches about the widget that let loose and so on. I understand that as I bought my SERG new and when you fork out those kind of green backs you want it to last forever. But as it's been said "back in the AMF days".... I bought a brand new Low Rider for more than most cars cost and I couldn't even make it to Sturgis and back without major break downs BOTH ways, and then I also had to ride over 900 miles without ANY brakes because nobody had the parts. I would like to see that thread today.
You don't see posts about how good something is because that isn't how most folks use these forums. However if a question is asked about something specific many times there are some really good reviews. I would agree that things have taken more of a negative form but I always read the threads with a gain of salt. The knowledge base on this forum is HUGE with lots of great information, sometimes it isn't what you want to hear but that's life.
I have only attended one GTG, but would very much enjoy doing more. The cards I got dealt don't allow me to ride a lot anymore so that prohibits some of my participation (Damn Back).
I still hold some Harley Stock so I am one the SOB's that is causing the decrease in product quality. I know JC you had to do way more wrenching on that Pan then your CVO, right? When I compare my current bikes (13 SERG, 03 Fatboy and new to us 13SERK) my required wrench time to ride time is nothing compared to Iron Heads, Shovels, Pans and Knuckles. So with that in mind the quality has come a long way. Granted it still has a long way to go too! I know I should sell my stock, should have done it a couple years back but emotion is never a good thing when coupled with investing.
It does break my heart to see so much talk about moving over to other brands!
I have had Harleys for about 45 years and never had one yet that didn't have some form of a major pain in the ass. But it was pretty much know and it still is. Hell, Harley has been making qualified Technicians out of riders since 1903!
I get off now :soapbox:
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these forums, well, they all do that. its normal,right?! :confused5:
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It does break my heart to see so much talk about moving over to other brands!
I have had Harleys for about 45 years and never had one yet that didn't have some form of a major pain in the ass. But it was pretty much know and it still is. Hell, Harley has been making qualified Technicians out of riders since 1903!
I get off now :soapbox:
Amen brother!
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One of the reasons I did not want a HD in the 70s, 80s, & 90s was the unreliability of the bikes. Oil leakers, jokes about marking their territory were true, saw more than a few pans under HDs to catch the oil that leaked out. Not especially powerful, not especially easy to handle. expensive, and the other joke was you needed to be a mechanic - or you would be soon enough - if you rode one. The other main reason was expense - power bang for the buck was not that great compared to other bikes. The AMF deal sure didn't help matters any, they began to do better after that buyback no doubt.
Why the trip down memory lane? While I didn't own a Harley, riding buddies did and I rode more than a few of theirs. Nice & shiny & heavy but nope, was not impressed. Recall more than a few hours on the sides of roads, at gas stations, looking for a garage, pushing them, etc. etc. & meanwhile the rest of us non HD guys scratched our heads & wondered WTF? HDs broke down more than what the rest of us were riding.
I drank the HD Kool-aide in 2001. Bikes were better than they had been - still some problems with the earlier twin cams. Had a RK Classic that I loved long time, rode like a dream. Not the fastest or most nimble bike, but for a 46 year old iski it was what I wanted. My 2007 SE Ultra sucked gnat balls - a POS that for a year was reliable & then never was. Happy to see it gone. 2010 SE Ultra was a great bike, my 2017 CVO Limited is easily the best of all of them, hands down.
I realize it's not the same - my not owning a Harley since the 1960s, but I was around them enough to know enough. And those HD riders bitched plenty about their rides & why stuff broke & leaked. Also heard bitching about German & Jap bikes, a twist of the throttle on the bike I was on made that noise go faint to nothing in a hurry. Memories fade the bad chit & the lousier stuff. "Fond" memories of carburetor HDs that choked in the mountains or on a very cold morning & refused to start? If you say so. HDs now are more reliable that they once were. Room for improvement? Hells bells you betcha. Some M8s are bum steers? No doubt about it. Overpriced for the market? Maybe since that is a factor when sales lag. What's the fix? Do not see one. As long as younger generations are more interested in things other than motorcycles, sales will lag. KC closing was just the beginning. Expect layoffs in York as well as WI before too long. Unless the "100 new HD models" turns that all around and riders learn to live better, electrically. Dunno. Doubtful, very doubtful.
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Well, whatever the reasons, I'd just like to see more participation in GTGs and other social events.
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All
I just saw this thread and like you guys have noticed a trend with regard to participation, as well as the general attitude of the forum membership compared to the past.
I have ridden Harleys, as well as some other makes, for 45 of my 54 years on this rock. I even had a stint working for a dealer, who was a total a$$hole but that's another story. I think you hit the perverbial nail on the head with the thought that this general malaise is tied to the apparent attitude of Harley Corporate as well as a great many of the dealers.
I can't speak for anyone but me but I will sum up how I feel in one word "alienated". I would think that a 54 year old male would be right smack in the wheelhouse of Harleys demographic, and for a great many years I think I was. I remember back in 1991 when the Dynas came out thinking man if they would slap a wide glide on one if these I would trade this Softtail in in a minute. They did and I did. I was really excited every time I rode that sickle and as soon as they came out with a Twin Cam I got one of them too. Fast forward a few years and the triple red RoadGlide tripped my trigger again. Then in 2004, when I worked as a GM at a dealership, the Huckleberry came out and wow, had to have one. It took 10 years before I saw another bike that I wanted.
Now I look at the current offerings and think what in the wide world of sports is Harley thinking. I'm not talking just about the colors because I realize not everyone likes the same thing, but in general they are de-contenting the bikes and charging even more for them. I mean my Road King doesn't have chrome switch housings, bars etc, things that before had generally been virtually guaranteed on a CVO, and if I had not gotten a significant discount I would not have bought it...
Then low and behold the HD Factory guys show up at a MVGTG, in 2016 I believe, and the group, in a very polite and constructive discussion, points out some of the things that they would like to see change. The Reps agree that there has been a trend towards less is more with regard to CVO bikes and then low and behold 2018 rolls around and you can't hardly tell a Street Glide Special from a CVO Street Glide except for the 13K more missing from you bank account. It's ridiculous!!
So if Harley is still monitoring the site, and I hope they are, you guys better get your head out of your butts and start making bikes that fire the passion within your riders, and while you are at it stop this trend of corporate dealership types in favor of good honest owners that have a passion for the brand equal to the riders. At the end of the day, passion, or lack of it, will ultimately decide the fate of HD.
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Well said Shrader
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I love this site. You guys are the greatest.... ;D
.....Have a great, safe and blessed day today..... :2vrolijk_21:
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bean counters!! makes a great presentation to corporate leaders and shareholders! :pepper: :cucumber: :jalapeno: :carrot: :apple: but,not so much to the folks having to ride and deal with the fallout from cost saving measures. seen it time and time again. if, you save $$$s and the company fails because no one wants your product what have you gained? :-\ :( i feel a lot like schrader!
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So if Harley is still monitoring the site, and I hope they are, you guys better get your head out of your butts and start making bikes that fire the passion within your riders, and while you are at it stop this trend of corporate dealership types in favor of good honest owners that have a passion for the brand equal to the riders. At the end of the day, passion, or lack of it, will ultimately decide the fate of HD.
Smokey Mountain Harley Davidson, in Maryville TN is a dealer, where the Owner has a brand passion. He is an avid Rider, has a couple of built bikes, and rides the tar out of them. He led rides at the Greater Smokey Mountain HOGZ rally, was involved with it all 7 Days. He leads a ride to Daytona each year. He does a ride the Blue Ridge. He is in the Store most days, and is available. He sponsors Project Ride More, which is a guide 250 to 300 mile ride of very unique back roads, many hard to find on a map. He has some on lead it an sweep it. This is once a week. Now if you look at the Store you would say Corporate dealership, as its huge, and has a bar, and a restaurant and concert venue. But it is owned by one man, who begged harley for 10 plus years to let him open a store. He finally did in 2004. He is the #1 dealer this year.
I sure do agree with you on the de-contenting the bikes. Seems CVO's loose more and more special features, and the price keeps climbing.
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AND, as was said above, less is never more, MORE IS MORE plain and simple.
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I love my FLHTCUSE8 Annv, the best HD I have ever owned. At 5 years old I would have normally purchased a new one however, HD is producing nothing that makes me want to trade up. They all look the same and the "improvements" are nothing really earth shattering. HD has lost their passion and I have lost my passion for HD. I do keep the passion for my bike and that will never go away. Its a shame but it appears that HD is not concerned about people like me.
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I love my FLHTCUSE8 Annv, the best HD I have ever owned. At 5 years old I would have normally purchased a new one however, HD is producing nothing that makes me want to trade up. They all look the same and the "improvements" are nothing really earth shattering. HD has lost their passion and I have lost my passion for HD. I do keep the passion for my bike and that will never go away. Its a shame but it appears that HD is not concerned about people like me.
Like us! I feel exactly the same way on all points. I have the 2013 with not a thing wrong with it, extended warranty until Jun 2020 and was offered more on trade in from BMW than from Harley Davidson by $500 but that was only $14,850. Not going to happen!
It's paid for, nothing wrong with it and extended warranty. I'll ride it until Jun 2020.....I'll be 70 then so I'll make a decision at that time but it will not be a Harley......tired of getting ripped off.
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Like us! I feel exactly the same way on all points. I have the 2013 with not a thing wrong with it, extended warranty until Jun 2020 and was offered more on trade in from BMW than from Harley Davidson by $500 but that was only $14,850. Not going to happen!
It's paid for, nothing wrong with it and extended warranty. I'll ride it until Jun 2020.....I'll be 70 then so I'll make a decision at that time but it will not be a Harley......tired of getting ripped off.
No kidding. Let’s hope the 19’s have at least one without denim, blackouted,and boring that make the standard lineup look good. Safe bet I’ll be on my 2011
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I passed on "celebrating the bikes" from day one. For me it's been all about the rides, GTGs and the people you meet along the way. This years ride in Yosemite was small, maybe next year will be smaller, or larger. I just want to see my friends and ride and have fun.
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I passed on "celebrating the bikes" from day one. For me it's been all about the rides, GTGs and the people you meet along the way. This years ride in Yosemite was small, maybe next year will be smaller, or larger. I just want to see my friends and ride and have fun.
Well said
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I passed on "celebrating the bikes" from day one. For me it's been all about the rides, GTGs and the people you meet along the way. This years ride in Yosemite was small, maybe next year will be smaller, or larger. I just want to see my friends and ride and have fun.
Well said
I agree. lot of great info & camaraderie here. bikes are mechanical machines & are going to fail at some point. I agree that we all have issues that probably shouldn't be ( & on a continuous basis). but for me, I love the people here, the friendliness & the fellowship ( love the GTG's, great spirit & a willingness to always try helping one another.
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Right on and its a Harley forum, lol!
I passed on "celebrating the bikes" from day one. For me it's been all about the rides, GTGs and the people you meet along the way. This years ride in Yosemite was small, maybe next year will be smaller, or larger. I just want to see my friends and ride and have fun.
Well said
I agree. lot of great info & camaraderie here. bikes are mechanical machines & are going to fail at some point. I agree that we all have issues that probably shouldn't be ( & on a continuous basis). but for me, I love the people here, the friendliness & the fellowship ( love the GTG's, great spirit & a willingness to always try helping one another.
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It is nye on to 3pm Friday August 3, 2018 and not one post has been made thus far this month in the CVO Motorcycle Discussions...
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It is nye on to 3pm Friday August 3, 2018 and not one post has been made thus far this month in the CVO Motorcycle Discussions...
....bored?..... ;D
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It is nye on to 3pm Friday August 3, 2018 and not one post has been made thus far this month in the CVO Motorcycle Discussions...
I've spent the whole month trying to imagine Hubbard on a big new electric Harley just like Slim Pickens at the end of Doctor Strangelove. All whooping and hollering at all the sudden torque. Right until he hits the end of the extension cord....
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....bored?..... ;D
I might be a trifle bored H, reckon I need to go back to fishing forums or start a thread on something...
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I've spent the whole month trying to imagine Hubbard on a big new electric Harley just like Slim Pickens at the end of Doctor Strangelove. All whooping and hollering at all the sudden torque. Right until he hits the end of the extension cord....
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_k-bigpic/18n3toe8cshnkjpg.jpg
That's a sight to imagine ain't it...
Reckon by the time Harley goes full electric Hubbard will be hot rodding his Hoveround.
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Ha that image looks more like they served burritos at the senior center and this was one of the tragic results! :huepfenlol2:
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Ha that image looks more like they served burritos at the senior center and this was one of the tragic results! :huepfenlol2:
I never really thought about it when I posted that but Hubbard has been known to rip a goodun every now and then
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Maybe this would wake the millennials. Acquisition bait for Harley? How do you get a V-Twin on that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6-je9NSOnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ah6FQP5ozk
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The second one reminds me of The Chair. But you had to pull it with a boat. Kind of like a wakeboard but up out of the water like this one. Anyway pretty cool.
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All
I just saw this thread and like you guys have noticed a trend with regard to participation, as well as the general attitude of the forum membership compared to the past.
I have ridden Harleys, as well as some other makes, for 45 of my 54 years on this rock. I even had a stint working for a dealer, who was a total a$$hole but that's another story. I think you hit the perverbial nail on the head with the thought that this general malaise is tied to the apparent attitude of Harley Corporate as well as a great many of the dealers.
I can't speak for anyone but me but I will sum up how I feel in one word "alienated". I would think that a 54 year old male would be right smack in the wheelhouse of Harleys demographic, and for a great many years I think I was. I remember back in 1991 when the Dynas came out thinking man if they would slap a wide glide on one if these I would trade this Softtail in in a minute. They did and I did. I was really excited every time I rode that sickle and as soon as they came out with a Twin Cam I got one of them too. Fast forward a few years and the triple red RoadGlide tripped my trigger again. Then in 2004, when I worked as a GM at a dealership, the Huckleberry came out and wow, had to have one. It took 10 years before I saw another bike that I wanted.
Now I look at the current offerings and think what in the wide world of sports is Harley thinking. I'm not talking just about the colors because I realize not everyone likes the same thing, but in general they are de-contenting the bikes and charging even more for them. I mean my Road King doesn't have chrome switch housings, bars etc, things that before had generally been virtually guaranteed on a CVO, and if I had not gotten a significant discount I would not have bought it...
Then low and behold the HD Factory guys show up at a MVGTG, in 2016 I believe, and the group, in a very polite and constructive discussion, points out some of the things that they would like to see change. The Reps agree that there has been a trend towards less is more with regard to CVO bikes and then low and behold 2018 rolls around and you can't hardly tell a Street Glide Special from a CVO Street Glide except for the 13K more missing from you bank account. It's ridiculous!!
So if Harley is still monitoring the site, and I hope they are, you guys better get your head out of your butts and start making bikes that fire the passion within your riders, and while you are at it stop this trend of corporate dealership types in favor of good honest owners that have a passion for the brand equal to the riders. At the end of the day, passion, or lack of it, will ultimately decide the fate of HD.
MoCo hears you loud and clear. But with over a hundred years worth of legacy bikes, parts and services, Changes happen in small steps. The M8 could have been a big step change but given the legacy design constrains, compromises had to be made. This was a evolution instead of a revolution!
Perhap, after we drop the Sportster line....more resources will be devoted to the other product lines in hopes to enrich the HD experience.
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Perhap, after we drop the Sportster line....more resources will be devoted to the other product lines in hopes to enrich the HD experience.
They should take the V-Rod engine and put it in a touring bike.
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They should take the V-Rod engine and put it in a touring bike.
I said the very same thing back when there was a V-Rod. liquid cooled and seemed to be a reliable platform. Not to mention the fact the V-Rod was an acceleration monster right out of the box, handling...well it went fast - in a straight line. I liked the night rod version with the slightly rearward foot controls.
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The V-Rod engine was designed for a lighter bike and for people who would normally be customers of the sportier Japanese brands that ran at higher rpm. The existing engine would not have been a good match for a nearly 1000 pound Touring rig, where good low end torque is more important than high rpm power. That's not to say they couldn't have increased displacement, up to a point, and gone with a torque cam and tune. But it still wouldn't look or sound like what the majority of Harley customers wanted, and I assume that's why they never tried that approach. With new sportier models on the drawing boards, perhaps there will be something they can use the Revolution engine in. However, that engine wasn't cheap to make, and odds are they will find a less expensive option for the new bikes they plan to bring to market.
JMHO - Jerry