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[FLHTCUSE7]

One challenge with threshold breaking and ABS is that the threshold is set very low, around 80% so that option is not really real for a person http at does not practice on a regular basis.

If you have ABS you have to train yourself to always slam the brakes full every time to get them in to ABS mode, when breaking hard that is, not at a traffic light

[CVO Aqua-Glider]

Braking distance with ABS is longer than braking distance with "standard" brakes and a proficient rider.

ABS is only good for people that don't care to learn how to ride properly. (Or in this case stop properly)

  I think most people who know how to ride "properly" would disagree with you.  I'll take ABS anytime.  Add to the ABS the linked brakes on the 2014's and it gets even better. 

[FLHTCUSE7]

Most people can't ride properly and ABS is a crutch for them. It is a fact that breaking distance is longer with ABS compared with conventional brakes, I did not make it up.

Linked brakes is even worse. Only good item on the new CVO Limited is that the linked stuff only happens above 20 mph. Linked brakes is the first that will go when I take delivery in October.

I am done with this discussion to each his own. Rider training is sadly lacking and anyone can get their license after a crappy MSF class and lots of people stop with that. Lots of people also crash and die every year because they can't ride.

[Ironhorse]

One challenge with threshold breaking and ABS is that the threshold is set very low, around 80% so that option is not really real for a person http at does not practice on a regular basis.

If you have ABS you have to train yourself to always slam the brakes full every time to get them in to ABS mode, when breaking hard that is, not at a traffic light

I agree,..which is why I am a big proponent of regular practice. To have something like ABS, and then not practice with it to get a better feel and understanding of it's capabilities is not utilizing all the safety features available.

[Ironhorse]

It is a fact that breaking distance is longer with ABS compared with conventional brakes, I did not make it up.

Rider training is sadly lacking and anyone can get their license after a crappy MSF class and lots of people stop with that. Lots of people also crash and die every year because they can't ride.

I know you didn't make that up. I saw it with my own eyes. Under ideal conditions a NON ABS bike using good threshold combination braking will stop faster and shorter than a bike with ABS deployed. Yes, you are correct and I agree with you there. Under the same ideal conditions in the hands of a good rider, an ABS bike, brought to the threshold of ABS deployment will stop as well as or better than a NON ABS bike.

However, on less than ideal surfaces, wet, debris, dirt, uneven surface, the ABS performs better.

And yes I agree with you 100 percent, rider training is lacking amongst most of the population. The amount of motorcycle accidents would decrease exponentially if more folks would take riding as serious as you do and practice and train as often as you do.

[Midnight Rider]

A person has to do a LOT of training not to lock brakes up in a panic situation, on a wet road, or a road with debris on it.  In a panic stop, even experienced riders WILL lock up the brakes, particularly the rear...experience will allow one to immediately release and get out of a skid, if it's not too late.

Experience allows us to avoid situations where a panic stop would be necessary, BUT it's that one time that might get you injured or killed.  Looking at the larger picture, I think ABS is a very good thing on both bikes and cars, and is a proven safety enhancement for 999 people out of 1000.

Regardless of the braking setup on a bike, practice is still necessary to become familiar with what it takes to bring 900 lbs to a safe stop, and what it feels like to do so.  In a panic situation, 999 people out of 1000 are going to benefit from ABS, regardless of riding experience.  I would not say that a person who chooses to have ABS "doesn't know how to ride", but that's just me.

[FLHTCUSE7]

Do not release your rear brake if you happen to lock it. That's how you high side. Keep it locked and ride it out.

But if you never practice to do it it might be an issue since your brain will probably tell you the wrong thing. I practice locking the rear at 40mph and ride it out. Both in dry and wet condition. Not a big deal except tire wear.  In my opinion not a lot of training needed but consistent.

Used to practice on a KZP but switched to a RK this year. (Without ABS)

[FLHTCUSE7]

And I agree, did not mean to say that anyone that chooses ABS can't ride. I am sure there are very good riders out there with and without ABS. But they are not normally the ones that show up in the statistics as dead.

So far we had 55 dead riders up here this summer. Very sad.

[Ironhorse]

Do not release your rear brake if you happen to lock it. That's how you high side. Keep it locked and ride it out.

SPOT ON! And that high side can happen at 15mph. It will throw you right over the bars. So while you are keeping that rear locked, keep your head and eyes up and level, and apply the front brake with a steady progressive squeeze, as that is the ONLY functioning brake system you have left.

[Midnight Rider]

Do not release your rear brake if you happen to lock it. That's how you high side. Keep it locked and ride it out.

But if you never practice to do it it might be an issue since your brain will probably tell you the wrong thing. I practice locking the rear at 40mph and ride it out. Both in dry and wet condition. Not a big deal except tire wear.  In my opinion not a lot of training needed but consistent.

Used to practice on a KZP but switched to a RK this year. (Without ABS)

That's exactly the purpose of ABS...not to allow one to lock up the wheel up and stop it turning.  One, you are losing all stopping distance, and two, you have no control when a wheel is not turning.  Practicing a lock up of the rear tire is a good exercise to keep from high siding, but does nothing with regards to stopping distance, as the distance will be increased with a skidding tire.  Only the maximum force necessary to keep from locking up either wheel is an effective braking technique...it's a fine line with a multitude of scenarios which will change the amount of force needed on the pedal/lever to avoid lock up.  There are very, very few people who ride for pleasure who can avoid locking up the wheel in a panic stop. Experienced riders can avoid high siding by realizing that when the rear end is coming around on you, the worst thing to do is release the brake pedal.  I would totally agree that IF you ride a bike without ABS, practicing a controlled skid is probably a good idea, realizing of course that your effective stopping distance is being dramatically increased when skidding.  But it will keep you from high siding...what it won't do is keep you from T-boning that car that just turned left in front of you, as you have effectively lost both control over the direction of the bike, and increased the amount of time/distance you have to stop.  You can keep the bike upright by practicing a controlled skid, but avoidance maneuvers are out the window.  But, if not having ABS works for you, who am I to judge...

I have utilized the ABS/Traction control system on my cages on a couple of occasions and can be 100% sure that had I not had those features on the cage, the result would not have been a good one.  I used the ABS system on the '11 SERGU (I practiced with it many times in parking lots on Sundays) one time in the time I owned that bike, and again, I'm 100% sure it allowed me to avoid contact with either the ground or the vehicle that caused me to panic stop, as it allowed me to both stop in a shorter distance, and take avoidance measures at the same time.  That one incident will make me always buy future bikes with ABS, if available.  I drive/ride somewhat aggressively though, so my needs are different than others.

I'll be curious to read how you defeat the system on the new bike you're getting, just from a technical point of view.

[FLHTCUSE7]

Should be easy to do. The linking is done electronically so is the ABS. Pull the fuse or get in to the CAN bus and change the protocol. (Not sure what protocol they use, my assumption is that it is a propriatory version). I might keep the ABS function but the linking has to go. Will make a decision after riding it.

I agree that ABS is great for cars since you can't balance the amount of brake force you get to each tire. It is intentionally less breaking force to the rear wheels since most people don't bother learning how to drive a car either and if the rear tires had more breaking force lots of cars would go tail first in a breaking situation. All that is now a none issue with ABS and the driver can just mash the brakes to stop. The old rally cars had a internal adjustment so you could send more or less break force between the axels.

I am on the same soapbox with car drivers education, it's a joke and you know very litle about handling a car after taking your "test".

But is is plenty of good schools out there to seek out and learning is fun in my opinion.

[tazmun]

 I have to say for every person that argues BRAKING, ask those who have made PANIC stops what they would rather have! The people who train the most. local & state POLICE, 10 out of 10 will take ABS, and ABS linked! I've asked the question numerous times to officers that have 20+ years on their bikes,and they all agree on the ABS.
I agree with those who say they can control there bike with out ABS BUT, of all the ones I've talked to,they NEVER had to do a panic stop, with seconds before impact!
  I know I've had close calls, but no PANIC stops, so I don't know what I would do. I just know I would always take a bike with ABS! I've taken every advanced riding class, including office training, and I wish EVERY person would do the same.

TAZ 

[FLHTCUSE7]

Well then don't panic   

I think my passengers rather me handle any upcoming situation with calm than panic. (Especially when piloting a helicopter for hire)

[FLHTCUSE7]

Well I don't believe its 10 out of 10 since the officer training school I attended gate ABS to say the least.

What school did you get your motor officer training at?

I have to say for every person that argues BRAKING, ask those who have made PANIC stops what they would rather have! The people who train the most. local & state POLICE, 10 out of 10 will take ABS, and ABS linked! I've asked the question numerous times to officers that have 20+ years on their bikes,and they all agree on the ABS.
I agree with those who say they can control there bike with out ABS BUT, of all the ones I've talked to,they NEVER had to do a panic stop, with seconds before impact!
  I know I've had close calls, but no PANIC stops, so I don't know what I would do. I just know I would always take a bike with ABS! I've taken every advanced riding class, including office training, and I wish EVERY person would do the same.

TAZ 

[FLSTFI Dave]

I ride a fair bit, and practice my riding and braking skills.  I ride a bit over 20K miles a year, last year it was 23535 miles, over 20K this year so far.

My last three bikes have had ABS, the 09 CVO road glide, and my current two CVO's.  I would purchase a new bike with out ABS.  Not because I can't stop a bike fine with out ABS, because I can.  I have locked the back tire and rode it out.

I believe ABS has saved me twice, both times under less than ideal conditions, one time it had just started raining and a car turned in front of me.  I do not believe I could have stopped that fast with out abs in the rain, with in the first five minutes of the rain.  The other time there was all kinds of sand on the road.

That said other than practice, those are the only times I have felt the ABS kick in.  I can stop fast and hard with the brembo brakes with out kicking in the ABS under good road conditions.  I also do practice getting into the brakes hard enough for ABS to kick in, so I know what it feels like and I know how hard I can brake with out abs kicking in.

That said I am not sure I like the idea of Linked ABS.  One of the things I really liked about Harley's ABS was it was not linked so I could choose how much of each brake to use.