Topic: How many Springers with an oil leak? (Read 9862 times)

Air-Cooled · « **on:** January 30, 2008, 09:13:01 PM »

We've all noted how frequently the 110 motor has leaked at the head and/or base gasket, but it is my impression that the Springers may be less prone due to the counter-balancers. With less shaking fore and aft there may be less of a tendency to disrupt the seals. So who here has had a leak on their Springer 110? I haven't had one...(yet) on my '07.

BOT · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:47:13 PM »

5000 miles and just noticed the rear cylinder has oil residue. Taking in next week.

Chief · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:12:25 PM »

Quote from: BOT on January 31, 2008, 02:47:13 PM

5000 miles and just noticed the rear cylinder has oil residue. Taking in next week.

It is most prominent in the Ultras, followed by the Road Kings. Main difference in those two bikes are the lowers on the Ultras. All of this supports a theory that it is heat related. The other bikes in the CVO lineup are lighter with less air restriction, also supporting a heat related theory.

Hoist! · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:44:26 PM »

There's no discrimination! They all have problems or the potential for same. We have a majority of members with FD's. So you'll hear about more of those here than any other. Next are SERK's. Then maybe even between Dynas and Springers. So you'll hear least about those. As the quantity of the type of bike decreases by members, so will the problems you hear about those models. But my personal assessment, after everything we've seen and heard, is that they all suck right now!!!

Hoist!

Chief · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:07:48 PM »

Quote from: Hoist on January 31, 2008, 03:44:26 PM

There's no discrimination! They all have problems or the potential for same. We have a majority of members with FD's. So you'll hear about more of those here than any other. Next are SERK's. Then maybe even between Dynas and Springers. So you'll hear least about those. As the quantity of the type of bike decreases by members, so will the problems you hear about those models. But my personal assessment, after everything we've seen and heard, is that they all suck right now!!!

Hoist!

I'm refering to percentages, not just absolute numbers. As it was told to me by HD Cust Service, highest % of failure is in the FLHTCUSE2, next comes the Road Kings and on down the tree.

sadunbar · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:18:00 PM »

Quote from: Chief on January 31, 2008, 08:07:48 PM

I'm refering to percentages, not just absolute numbers. As it was told to me by HD Cust Service, highest % of failure is in the FLHTCUSE2, next comes the Road Kings and on down the tree.

Did you follow up that slip from the list of "acceptable customer service tech responses" with a barrage of questions like...

- What do you mean by percentage of failures?

- How many failures have there been?

- What percentage of 110's produced have failed?

- What percentage of FLHTCUSE2's have failed?

- What percentage of Road Kings have failed?

For you to get that answer, there must be supporting statistics that can be shared!

Scott

Chief · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:34:04 PM »

Quote from: sadunbar on January 31, 2008, 08:18:00 PM

Did you follow up that slip from the list of "acceptable customer service tech responses" with a barrage of questions like...

- What do you mean by percentage of failures?

- How many failures have there been?

- What percentage of 110's produced have failed?

- What percentage of FLHTCUSE2's have failed?

- What percentage of Road Kings have failed?

For you to get that answer, there must be supporting statistics that can be shared!

Scott

Not really. The comment was made in discussion about the failures, hypothesizing on what is causing it. Trying to put some meaning onto which models are failing the most might point a finger at the root cause. My observation was that we have seen more failures on the FLH line. The response was that "and we're seeing more of it on the Ultras than on the RK's." We then postulated as to why that was. I didn't dig into trying to get absolute numbers because I'd bet my bottom dollar that info won't be shared with common folks like me.

sadunbar · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:39:07 PM »

Quote from: Chief on January 31, 2008, 08:34:04 PM

Not really. The comment was made in discussion about the failures, hypothesizing on what is causing it. Trying to put some meaning onto which models are failing the most might point a finger at the root cause. My observation was that we have seen more failures on the FLH line. The response was that "and we're seeing more of it on the Ultras than on the RK's." We then postulated as to why that was. I didn't dig into trying to get absolute numbers because I'd bet my bottom dollar that info won't be shared with common folks like me.

I'd bet your bottom dollar you're right on!

Air-Cooled · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2008, 09:02:58 PM »

So far one person has reported an oil leak on a Springer. Any others?

grc · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2008, 09:29:05 PM »

The other variable you folks are forgetting is mileage. The baggers tend to accumulate more miles in a shorter time than the Softail's and Dyna's, and therefore they are showing leaks earlier. To make an apples to apples comparison, you need to consider mileage, not just model.

Jerry

ccr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:36:28 AM »

Quote from: grc on January 31, 2008, 09:29:05 PM

The other variable you folks are forgetting is mileage. The baggers tend to accumulate more miles in a shorter time than the Softail's and Dyna's, and therefore they are showing leaks earlier. To make an apples to apples comparison, you need to consider mileage, not just model.

Jerry

Why would one bike accumulate more miles in a shorter time than another? I know it is your opinion, and I value that. Just wondering.

Chief · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:36:57 AM »

Quote from: Mrs.We on February 01, 2008, 07:36:28 AM

Why would one bike accumulate more miles in a shorter time than another? I know it is your opinion, and I value that. Just wondering.

If I may speak for Jerry, I believe his point is that riders are more likely to travel long distances on a bagger than on a Dyna or Springer which will translate into more miles in a shorter period of time.

ccr · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2008, 09:23:03 AM »

Quote from: Chief on February 01, 2008, 08:36:57 AM

If I may speak for Jerry, I believe his point is that riders are more likely to travel long distances on a bagger than on a Dyna or Springer which will translate into more miles in a shorter period of time.

I read it wrong, I get it now. Makes sense.

grc · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2008, 09:33:40 AM »

Quote from: Mrs.We on February 01, 2008, 07:36:28 AM

Why would one bike accumulate more miles in a shorter time than another? I know it is your opinion, and I value that. Just wondering.

Quote from: Chief on February 01, 2008, 08:36:57 AM

If I may speak for Jerry, I believe his point is that riders are more likely to travel long distances on a bagger than on a Dyna or Springer which will translate into more miles in a shorter period of time.

Thanks, Chief, that's what I was referring to in my original statement. I remember reading something a few years back about average miles per year on motorcycles, and the indication was that touring bikes averaged more than double the miles per year of "cruiser" models. Sure, there are plenty of high mileage Softails and Dynas around, but I'm referring to averages. For every Softail rider with 10,000 miles per year, there are hundreds more who are lucky to break 2,000 miles.

Getting back to this thread, it seems that the oil leak is mileage dependent (based on the reports I've read here and elsewhere). That's why I believe any comparison between failure rates for different models needs to factor in mileage.

Jerry

amigo Jorge · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:31:30 PM »

Quote from: Air-Cooled on January 30, 2008, 09:13:01 PM

We've all noted how frequently the 110 motor has leaked at the head and/or base gasket, but it is my impression that the Springers may be less prone due to the counter-balancers. With less shaking fore and aft there may be less of a tendency to disrupt the seals. So who here has had a leak on their Springer 110? I haven't had one...(yet) on my '07.

Mine still fine...less than 2000 miles on it.....

towjamin · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:17:39 PM »

mine has NO sign of a leak at all !! hell it still looks like its brand new,

but then again it has 12 miles on it.

weather has been too crappy to get it out of the garage, we will see how it does after Daytona, Jamie

ccr · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2008, 03:56:05 PM »

Quote from: towjamin on February 01, 2008, 03:17:39 PM

mine has NO sign of a leak at all !! hell it still looks like its brand new, but then again it has 12 miles on it. weather has been too crappy to get it out of the garage, we will see how it does after Daytona, Jamie

It is brand new! Aren't you lucky though. We are out riding in the nasty weather just messin up that pretty paint and chrome. Yours looks great, doesn't it?

Midnight Rider · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2008, 04:12:13 PM »

I'm with Jerry on this one...not nearly so many miles on the typical B motor. The heat may be a contributing factor, but the main thing is how many miles it has on it, it seems.

towjamin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:18:09 PM »

Quote from: Mrs.We on February 01, 2008, 03:56:05 PM

It is brand new! Aren't you lucky though. We are out riding in the nasty weather just messin up that pretty paint and chrome. Yours looks great, doesn't it?

yea it still looks new

, i don't ride in the crap up in CT,I'm out in the cold all week long

and when i ride i want to be warm

, if i ride in the cold my brain freezes

and i cant dodge all the morons

! lol, Jamie

amigo Jorge · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:05:37 PM »

Quote from: towjamin on February 01, 2008, 03:17:39 PM

mine has NO sign of a leak at all !! hell it still looks like its brand new, but then again it has 12 miles on it. weather has been too crappy to get it out of the garage, we will see how it does after Daytona, Jamie

Jamie..are you going there?

StrahDawg · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2008, 03:07:22 PM »

I only have around 2000 miles and knock on wood haven't had a problem. I know I dont have many miles yet but because of this forum I'm glad I'm aware that these problems exist and I will be watching for leaks after every ride. Unfortunately right now with the Cleveland winters doesnt look like I will be getting the chance to really even help the process along.

drogers · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2008, 01:18:41 AM »

It was 80 degrees here today,and not a cloud in the sky.Just thought I would rub it in,he he.1200 milses,so far so good.I have low miles,but what is everyones oil temp running.I'm at 225 degrees after a SERT and pipes.,but saw 250-275 before.

DavidG · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2008, 05:51:48 AM »

1800 miles on mine and noticed oil mist around the head/cylinder when I pulled the pipes off to replace them with VH Big Radius. Took it to the dealer and they confirmed the leak. HD had them pull both heads to check for cylinder liner movement. Both had shifted so they replaced the cylinders, rings, and new gaskets. Got it back a couple of days ago and now going through the break-in process again.

StrahDawg · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2008, 12:52:48 PM »

Thanks for rubbing it in I am definately jealous.

towjamin · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2008, 08:22:59 AM »

Quote from: jegomez on February 01, 2008, 07:05:37 PM

Jamie..are you going there?

should be going to daytona, with any luck, i own a towing business and plans are subject to change at any moment, just like the weather!

bad07sespringer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2008, 02:07:31 AM »

I lost a rear cylinder head gasket at about 15500 mi.Now at 17000 mi and rear cylinder base O-ring is leakin.

Chief · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2008, 07:47:48 AM »

Quote from: bad07sespringer on February 07, 2008, 02:07:31 AM

I lost a rear cylinder head gasket at about 15500 mi.Now at 17000 mi and rear cylinder base O-ring is leakin.

When you say you 'lost' it, did they replace it with the 16801-07A? If so, that explains why you're seeing the oil out the bottom. The 'A' gasket does a pretty good job of stopping the leak that leaked oil over the top of the fins, where most of us saw it first. The problem is that when the 'A' gasket fails, as it usually does, it fails in a slightly different way that allows the oil returning from the head to migrate sideways to the stud pockets and run down the studs and fill the the pockets around them up with oil. Once oil makes it to the bottom of the pockets, there is no gasket in that area to keep it from seeping out between the cylinder and case. This is why you're now seeing it come out the bottom.

When you see this leak it is natural to first think that the base o-ring is leaking, but that isn't necessarily so. The base o-ring goes around the cylinder spigot but that is located inside the bolt circle of the studs. The base o-ring's job is to keep oil from coming up from the case, not down the studs. Since the studs are supposed to be dry, there isn't any sense in putting a gasket outside their bolt circle to hold in oil that isn't supposed to be there. All of this doesn't really matter because when they replace the head gasket this time they will replace all of the o-rings too.

I'm living with the exact same failure, and have been for about 5,000 miles. I have just been cleaning off the oil film and riding it until they come up with a REAL fix.

In short, you've still got a leaking head gasket.

screaminfx · « **Reply #27 on:** February 08, 2008, 01:30:38 PM »

I have an 07 FXSTSSE and experienced oil pouring out of the air filter at 1,800 miles. The problem was traced to the front cylinder's oil return galleys not being drilled through, eventually building up pressure in the head giving to oil no place to go. Saw the barrel myself, incredible, no holes! While disassembled my mechanic noticed oil weeping from the rear base gasket; all gaskets were subsequently replaced with an updated "graphite" gasket kit, the key is that they are not "layered" like the originals. Supposedly the updated versions have proven to be bulletproof.

Lastly, I had them check the crank run-out and oil pump; all was good and within specs. I have to say that my dealer has been awesome (McGuire's in Walnut Creek CA), let's hope the bike will be as well.

skreminegul07 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 16, 2008, 11:10:19 AM »

Quote from: screaminfx on February 08, 2008, 01:30:38 PM

I have an 07 FXSTSSE and experienced oil pouring out of the air filter at 1,800 miles. The problem was traced to the front cylinder's oil return galleys not being drilled through, eventually building up pressure in the head giving to oil no place to go. Saw the barrel myself, incredible, no holes! While disassembled my mechanic noticed oil weeping from the rear base gasket; all gaskets were subsequently replaced with an updated "graphite" gasket kit, the key is that they are not "layered" like the originals. Supposedly the updated versions have proven to be bulletproof.

Lastly, I had them check the crank run-out and oil pump; all was good and within specs. I have to say that my dealer has been awesome (McGuire's in Walnut Creek CA), let's hope the bike will be as well.

That's one way to keep the head gasket from allowing oil to go down the stud pockets.

havoc · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:28:11 PM »

1700 miles and I haven't seen anything YET! To add some encouragement to some a friend with a 07 has over 6k, been riding the bike for about seven months and no leaks. This is in the wonderful heat of the south also.

00fxsts · « **Reply #30 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:14:59 PM »

Well, I registered on this site about 5 months ago when I put a deposit on an 08 Springer. I have been following along, hoping that I would read about a permanant fix for this, but I'm not encouraged. Towjamin....you have the bike I am waiting for. It is beautiful !! I saw one at my dealer the day I went on the waiting list. I'm thinking I will get the call soon that it is in, but I can't justify the price to inherit this issue. I have a 2000 Springer now with less than 6000 miles on it. I can't get the same tires on my current one, but I have priced out a complete cam change to gear drive and a 95 inch conversion for 3k. I'd love to have that Orange head turner, but I'm leaning toward keeping what I have.

yoderjl · « **Reply #31 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:19:33 PM »

None so far-but only 275 miles on it. I was concerned about buying my as well because of this issue-but I am VERY glad i did. I did buy another year of warranty just in case and deal with it if it happens. Yes it is alot of money to pay for a bike that may have an issue like this-but it was worth the risk to me because this bike is just awesome!

ice6900 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 05, 2008, 12:03:20 PM »

heres another springer 2 add 2 the head gasket leak collection, 10months old, 8000km, had both head gaskets replaced with a new type gasket made of the same material as the tried n tested twincam head gasket, these were especially given to my dealer by "mr hd technical" in my area. Complaining to the right people certainly helps.

Author Topic: How many Springers with an oil leak? (Read 9862 times)