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[dbrit]

I have a 2011 CVO road glide ultra and just took the longest trip on it, it only has 23k miles on it and I just put 6K of that on it going out west. I had it serviced by my local HD dealer before going, after putting 3K miles on it I discovered it had used almost 2 quarts of oil, I filled it back up started home and after about 900 miles it took the rest of the 2 nd quart, then after another 1k miles it had used another quart? No smoke, no oil on the breather, I called Harley the person I spoke with said it would be common to use about a quart. That still doesn't seem right to me, anyone else had this problem thanks

[Rooster]

Yoohooo Jerry, he should be here soon

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Even an Ironhead XL or Panhead won't consume that type of oil.
Normal? It sure ain't.
That powerplant needs a look-over to determine the issue and have it corrected.
Scott

[RGKen]

With the older model bikes there was an issue with the oil leaking over into the primary.  Never heard of that happening on a 2011 but I suppose it could be possible since you are not seeing smoke or oil in the breather. Just take off the Derby cover to see if it is over full.  Make sure you put an oil pan under it just in case. 

[mark]

Join the crowd.  My 2010 SESG started using about a qt. every 1k miles.  Seems most prevalent on the 110 engines, as there have been others posting with the same issue.  HD claims a qt. per 1k miles is acceptable.  Like you, I've got no smoke from the exhaust & no oil in the air cleaner.  Also, my spark plugs have no oily residue.

[chicoman]

my 07 110 was using oil @ 1qt per 3000 miles, switched to suburban speeds 113 kit, no more oil usage. Their kit runs tighter piston clearances than harley, so it can be fixed, just dont use hd pistons, check out suburban speed, they also have other kits for different size motors.

[Ridgerunr]

Valve seals? guides? 110" have had problems with valve guides.

[grc]

I have a 2011 CVO road glide ultra and just took the longest trip on it, it only has 23k miles on it and I just put 6K of that on it going out west. I had it serviced by my local HD dealer before going, after putting 3K miles on it I discovered it had used almost 2 quarts of oil, I filled it back up started home and after about 900 miles it took the rest of the 2 nd quart, then after another 1k miles it had used another quart? No smoke, no oil on the breather, I called Harley the person I spoke with said it would be common to use about a quart. That still doesn't seem right to me, anyone else had this problem thanks

As usual, H-D and it's dealers tell everyone that abnormal oil consumption is actually "normal".  That level of consumption was kind of normal many decades ago when those bogus standards were created, but that kind of consumption is far from normal or acceptable with modern manufacturing methods and modern materials.

Since the bike is way beyond the factory warranty, why are you talking to H-D about this?  Are you looking for them to step up and fix it even though it's out of warranty, or are you just looking for information on what the problem may be and how to fix it?  Or do you have an ESP and want that to pay to fix it?  If you have an ESP, the proper people to talk to would be the ESP company (CNA), not H-D, but they tend to follow the same BS standard that Harley does.

The fact that you don't see obvious smoke doesn't really mean much these days.  Modern oils don't smoke as much as they did in the old days, engines run hotter and burn it more completely, etc.  If you want to fix it, I'd suggest finding a top notch shop and ask them to diagnose the problem first.  You may have valve stem seals and guides that are allowing a lot of oil into the combustion chambers, or piston ring problems, or crankcase venting problems, or a combination of things.  Often it can be traced to one area, like the valve guides and seals, so you don't have to tear the whole engine down and rebuild it, unless of course you want to do it that way.

Jerry

[johnmowcop]

I have just logged on to the forum to start another thread about this and spotted this thread, if you don't mind I'll join in here.

I have been logging my miles versus oil usage. This is with a HD CVO Ultra Road Glide with 20k on the clock, year 2012, actually a 2011 model. See my other threads for more info.

Current status is 689 miles per litre of full synthetic, so you are not alone in your dilemma.

Before I start to pull it to bits, even though the oil consumption is ridiculous, I still want to take advantage of summer in the Uk and  keep using it by pouring oil down it's throat until I can find the time to take it off the road.

Obviously the final answer will only come when it is dismantled, but, most of the posts about this, especially on the post 2009 bikes, seem to point towards the valve guides being worn leading to the stem seals not doing their job, hence the heavy oil consumption.

I am trying to decide the route for the guides and seals. Favourite so far, from what I have read on forums, is AV&V guides with either the late Harley stem seals or AV&V stem seals. I have also had some UK feedback about K-Line vlave guide liners with ? stem seals.

I would appreciate any comments on the above, especially about the K-Line valve guide liners.

Sorry to jump into your original post OP but we seem to be sharing the same problem. So, any info would benefit us both. If you want me to depart this post and start my own just say so.

Just to give everyone a boost on secondhand market values. I happened to be at a not so local UK HD dealers last weekend, the missus wanted a jacket they had in stock. I was looking at a new Electraglide Ltd (£23k, that's pounds not dollars). Asked the salesman what the deal would be, he said he would allow me £13k for mine on the deal, when I bought mine three years ago, brand new, the list price was £30k and I fitted about £2.5k extras since. Make your own mind up what I felt like. The result is I shall never buy new again or even through a dealer. I shall sell private and buy private. The dealers must be laughing their socks off at us for being so besotted by the Brand.

JohnT

[dbrit]

Thanks for all the info, very helpful, jerry I do have the esp and I just wanted to get as much info from others before raising hell. Thanks again

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

One of my personal motorcycles is a 1967 FLH, predecessor to all modern touring bikes.
The bike is 48 years old.
It doesn't consume oil, between oil change intervals.
Anyone saying the word "normal" in regards to the oil usage of a modern engine, is a bold-face liar.
Scott

[harleytuner]

Thanks for all the info, very helpful, jerry I do have the esp and I just wanted to get as much info from others before raising hell. Thanks again

Just FYI, you don't have to go to the dealer for ESP.  There's plenty of Indy shops that work with them.  I'm doing a 110" crate through ESP right now actually.

[Rooster]

Valve seals? guides? 110" have had problems with valve guides.

Yep, in the early days of the 110 a lot of the old school motor guys tried building the 110 the old school ways including at least one of the top head guys. I only know because I spent $1800. for his work on my heads and I had to take them back to him twice for bad seals and guides the last time the exhaust valve on the rear cylinder head was stuck about and inch or so above its seat. I then watched him beat it loose with a hammer. I hope by now he has figured out the Beehive springs and better guides and seals. It was put back together before new guides, seals, and springs which only means that I am going to have to pay for those upgrades if I ever want to use my 110 again as it has been in a box after the second failure of the guides and seals. So I guess I paid $1800. for some fancy grinding.

[snowrider13]

Some bikes do use oil in my experience, some more than others. They HAVE to be ridden to use it though.

[jrod_141]

Some bikes do use oil in my experience, some more than others. They HAVE to be ridden to use it though.

just my .02: having been turning a wrench and building and rebuilding engines since i could walk, my personal experience is that there are some problems that are introduced by babying the engine too much on break-in.  rings need pressure to seat well, and babying the engine too much (especially by folks that baby it more than the manual calls for, intending to be "extra nice" to their brand new baby), end up with issues down the road.  Breaking in the CVO, manual calls for "3500 RPM or less", and i let her get up to 4K semi-regularly. 

There was a time when more babying was necessary due to piston/cylinder clearance, etc however modern machining and production consistency doesn't really necessitate the same care as in previous generations.  When i changed the oil at 735mi, it actually looked reasonably clean (dark honey), which indicates to me that even though i am through the bulk of the break-in, the engine was build and machined well enough so as to not destroy the oil in the first 1k as in the past. 

Hell, i changed the oil at 1k on my wife's Hayabusa (granted, the engine, trans and clutch share common oil), and it looked like absolute crap!  clutch material, black as coal, shiny bits.  exactly what i'd expect break-in oil to look like.  The 110" CVO (chinese or not) oil was hardly used, and not destroyed by any stretch of the imagination.  To me, this speaks volumes as to engine build quality, and machining tolerances.  I actually expected the 110" to be worse than the Hayabusa, especially given that the Hayabusa is an I-4 OHC, water-cooled 1300cc, and the HD is an air-cooled big-@$$ lawnmower engine,  .  i am definitely impressed by the power i get out of the 110" though, especially given that i've moved from a softtail to a glide.  100lbs more on the CVO limited, and still a crap load of power.  definitely not slow.  The softtail was a bit of a slug (carburetted TC88, 5-speed).  Plus, i'm loving the EFI.  easier starting, no choking, runs really well.

Back to the whole point of this:  if the engine was babied excessively on break-in, and the rings never really seated well, the only cure (at this point for you) is to hone the cylinders and fresh rings.  if the cylinder walls are glazed and the rings never really seated, that's the only cure.  The fresh hone is needed to seat new rings, just ride the crap out of it this time (if it's not the valve guides, that is). 

[jrod_141]

just to clarify:  the previous "no ring seat" scenario would apply to an engine that has always used oil, from the get-go.  not one that just started using oil out of the blue.  if it just started using oil, i'd be looking at the valve guides and valve stem seals.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

With a 400 grit final hone, and plateau hone, alnog with a petroleum engine oil, rings seat VERY quickly regardless of some magical/mystical break-in method.
Certianly running it like a rented mule, is incorrect, and tractor-mode is out also.
That is not how the cylinder wall finish is from HD, nor is that the oil used either.
Scott

[prodrag1320]

have someone follow you around at night,if your going thru that much oil,its smoking,just not bad enough to really see during the day.the problem with the 110 heads were guides actually coming loose,if you had a loose guide,youde know it.you probably have a set of bad seals,the factory v. seals have sucked for years,on just about all motors (evo & TC)

[Ridgerunr]

"have someone follow you around at night"

  Was using a quart every 800-1000 miles in a FXR, buddies said no smoke, then one night stopped at a light the headlights from the car behind me showed quite a haze. It was valve seals.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

A K-Line type seal with it's teflon wiper, installed correctly, should not be an issue.
Beaucoup' bikes/cars/truck/marine application, in service with them.
Scott

[RonandJanet]

Wow a quart of oil for 1K miles. Something has to be wrong. I assume this is new so something happened. Also two quarts low is a lot when she only hold four quarts total. I would not be happy id this happened with only 23K miles. I would have to carry oil with me for every trip we go one. We used to make fun of cars that didn't measure MPG but rather quarts per mile. I will curious as to what you find out is the issue.

[johnmowcop]

A K-Line type seal with it's teflon wiper, installed correctly, should not be an issue.
Beaucoup' bikes/cars/truck/marine application, in service with them.
Scott

Scott
Thanks very much for this feedback. I shall go down this route when I take it apart. I shall of course look at the cylinder wear, but the more I read about this the more I am expecting the valve guides and stem seals to be the issue.

Just away from HD's. My pal just had K-Line guides fitted to a Velocette Venom head. He was very impressed with the result.

JohnT

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

If your going to change out the guides, well then an AV&V guide/seal combination is mighty hard to beat.
Scott

[prodrag1320]

I agree with scott 

[windjammer]

I would switch to a mineral oil for a few thousand miles to see if it shows improvement. If rings are never seated properly synthetic oil is way too slippery an goes right by the rings. I have seen consumption go away completely by going back to mineral based oil for a while. My 2 cents.

[grc]

I would switch to a mineral oil for a few thousand miles to see if it shows improvement. If rings are never seated properly synthetic oil is way too slippery an goes right by the rings. I have seen consumption go away completely by going back to mineral based oil for a while. My 2 cents.

If the rings aren't "seated" at 23,000 miles, they never will be no matter what kind of oil is used.  And if synthetic motor oil really caused rings to fail to seal, I seriously doubt all those smart folks at the auto companies would spend more to use synthetics for factory fill, as very many do these days.

Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

All depends on the honing method, type of ring, installation, etc.........

[prodrag1320]

at 23K,it aint a ring seating problem.im sure its guides or valve seals.the only way it could be rings is if there was wash down from running too rich or from heat if the bike was way overheated

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Right, at 23,000 on the clock, it isn't a ring.
Scott