Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Piper]

\

Anyway the point of this story is:  if syn oil is good, but causes undesirable noise, would a heavier weight oil be better?

Maybe, but you shouldn't use a viscosity that was not recommended by the manufacturer for your particular bike.
A journal or thrust bearing (such as found supporting the cams in a Sportster™ motor)
requires oil pressure to maintain the cushion of oil on which the surfaces slide.
A rolling bearing (such as the crank and rod journal bearings in a Harley-Davidson motor) requires oil flow to
make sure that the rollers never touch the bearing surface, and that heat is carried away. One can
see that it is very difficult to build up pressure feeding a rolling bearing. For this reason, the
viscosity is to a greater extent than oil pressure, vital for the health of a Harley-Davidson
motor. Not enough viscosity and the rolling bearings will make contact with their races, but too
much and there will not be enough oil flowing to the journal bearings to keep them floating. This
is why any changes from the manufacturer’s recommendations for viscosity should not be taken
lightly.

[Steve_G]

I have a few friends that do a lot of HD engine work. They have seen a lot of damage with engines that ran Amsoil  5k or more between changes. I was told no more than 3.5k between changes. They run Redline in everything and said it held up much longer. I did not see any evidence in Punkins motor and I change between 4 and 5k. So I can't swear to their statement. One thing I can tell you is. If the bike sits over the winter and the oil only has 1k on it. I still change it at the beginning of riding season regardless.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I am speaking from personal experience.  I have had a boat load of Harleys and have used synthetic oils since LONG before the MoCo finally came out with SYN3.  Not only myself, but most of my riding friends also use either AMSOIL or Mobil 1.  No one has seen any such engine failures.  I question your friend's experience.  I suspect there are other factors your friend may not have been aware of.  Did he own the bikes?  Or did he take the word of someone else who brought the bikes to him? -(re: milage on oil). I think if you did a poll, you'd find a whole bunch of people who run 5K on AMSOIL with zero lubrication related problems.  Possibly someone on this site has a personal agenda to promote.  
  Either way, I've spent a lot of time researching lubrication, and am not selling a product.  I have no reason to lie.
If my engines were failing due to lubrication problems I would have figured this out a long time ago.  
  Today's engines run cleaner, and the current oils are continually researched and upgraded.  Look at the current cars and trucks.  Many have sensors that tell you when to change oil.  It's not at 3,000 miles like the old standard was.
  I think I've learned not to express my personal opinions here.  -Live and learn.  

[grc]

Just a thought:  If the 20/50 Syn oil causes the engine to produce more "noise", what if you tried a heavier Syn oil.....maybe straight 50 or heavier??  I know there could be issues....the engine might not be able to pump the heavier oil up to the top end if you go too heavy.  I know several old Harley guys that swear by straight 50 weight oil.

Talked to a friend yesterday that has an old Electraglide (mid 90's maybe).  He probably has 80 or 90K miles on it.  He was over 100 miles from home Saturday and the motor started making a terrible noise.  An old biker pulled up and gave a listen and told him it sounded like a lifter was going.  The old biker told him to drain the oil and refill with straight 50 weight to get it back home.  My friend did as suggested.  He said the motor quited down considerably and he was able to limp it a shop about 50 miles away.

Anyway the point of this story is:  if syn oil is good, but causes undesirable noise, would a heavier weight oil be better?

There was a reason why "old" harley guys recommended straight 50 or 60 weight; anything thinner would run out faster than you could pour it in.  

A straight 50 weight motor oil is the same viscosity at 100°C (212°F) as a 20w50 motor oil, by definition, so I fail to see the advantage.  A multigrade flows better at low temps, which improves lubrication and reduces wear during the crucial cold start and warm-up phases of engine operation where most engine wear occurs.  Running a straight weight oil in a modern street engine would be a big step backward.

As for synthetics causing noise, while I've never seen that theory tested in any scientific way and therefore can't call "BS", I haven't found that to be the case in any of my vehicles.  At least not within the capability of my hearing to discern any obvious difference.  I guess the question I would ask, assuming you agree with the fact that synthetics provide much better high temperature protection (scientific testing does prove that one), why would you care on your air cooled and hot running Harley if your engine was slightly noisier or not?  If you want a quiet engine, folks, you don't buy an air cooled pushrod Harley.  They make Honda's for the folks who desire quiet.  If you want a quiet Harley, get some top quality ear plugs.  

Jerry

[VAZHOG]

There was a reason why "old" harley guys recommended straight 50 or 60 weight; anything thinner would run out faster than you could pour it in.  

A straight 50 weight motor oil is the same viscosity at 100°C (212°F) as a 20w50 motor oil, by definition, so I fail to see the advantage.  A multigrade flows better at low temps, which improves lubrication and reduces wear during the crucial cold start and warm-up phases of engine operation where most engine wear occurs.  Running a straight weight oil in a modern street engine would be a big step backward.

As for synthetics causing noise, while I've never seen that theory tested in any scientific way and therefore can't call "BS", I haven't found that to be the case in any of my vehicles.  At least not within the capability of my hearing to discern any obvious difference.  I guess the question I would ask, assuming you agree with the fact that synthetics provide much better high temperature protection (scientific testing does prove that one), why would you care on your air cooled and hot running Harley if your engine was slightly noisier or not?  If you want a quiet engine, folks, you don't buy an air cooled pushrod Harley.  They make Honda's for the folks who desire quiet.  If you want a quiet Harley, get some top quality ear plugs.  

Jerry

Or a louder Radio

[hogasm]

Oils do indeed break down.  This is the shear factor.  There have been so many tests done to prove the superiority of synthetic oils that this question shouldn't even arise.  Your engine will run cooler.  If you don't believe it, use a gauge.  It's easily measurable.  The other thing is that the synthetic will cling to your engine, virtually eliminating start up wear.  But, I hope everyone will quit using synthetic oil.  -With lower demand, I should be able to buy it cheaper! 

This is what one exec told me about the lower demand...cheaper price theory........If we don't sell as much product, we need to increase prices to make up for the loss in sales volume.

[hogasm]

I finally got a chance to see any difference between dino and synthetic oil for myself. And I gotta tell ya'll, I'm not impressed with this synthetic crap. I've been using M1 V-Twin, 20-50 since new. Now that my motor got rebuilt, Vern wanted meto break it in with dino oil. He's not a fan of synthetic at all. Yeah, a benefit of not having to change it as often. But I think the dino actually helps the engine work better.

After putting over 2500 miles on the new motor with dino oil, I switched to my M1 before this trip. My first leg down beffore stopping for gas, I noticed the engine was a little louder after an hour into the trip. Thought it was my imagination. After about 20 min, we got back on the road, and the motor was normal sounding again, but after an hour, it seemed a little louder again.

Now mind you, I'm not talking about noise indicating any problems. Bike ran flawlessly! But I'm always listening for things, know my bike and have a good feel & ear for changing sounds and noises. So I called Vern and he told me it's the synthetic. That every bike he switches to synthetic does the same thing. Most people would never even notice. He was happy I was paying attention to my engine. So I started paying even closer attention to the sound. It definitely gets noisier with this stuff in it.

Going back to good ole 20-50 dino oil when I get back. I'll go back to changing it every 2500 miles. New filter after less miles is better too! And it's a lot cheaper! FTS! (Synthetic)!

Hoist!

Howie a little bit of info for you to ponder....in 1980 we changed the oil in a 4230 John Deere tractor on the farm to Amsoil 15-40 oil. The tractor had 50 hours on it. Today the same tractor has 20,000 hours on it and it is still running strong. The oil has NEVER been drained out of the pan. Only the filter has been changed every 100 hours and the oil topped off to the full mark. It still does not use any more or less oil than it did when it had 50 hours on it.

In my 04 SEEG I change the oil every 5000 miles. There are a few modifications done to the motor. It has over 25,000 miles on it since the minor changes were done to it. It still does not use any oil.

Good luck with your decision

[SBB]

There are a few modifications done to the motor. 

YUP
And all SERG's are stock also!





"A few"
 
 

 

[WFP]

Howie a little bit of info for you to ponder....in 1980 we changed the oil in a 4230 John Deere tractor on the farm to Amsoil 15-40 oil. The tractor had 50 hours on it. Today the same tractor has 20,000 hours on it and it is still running strong. The oil has NEVER been drained out of the pan. Only the filter has been changed every 100 hours and the oil topped off to the full mark. It still does not use any more or less oil than it did when it had 50 hours on it.

In my 04 SEEG I change the oil every 5000 miles. There are a few modifications done to the motor. It has over 25,000 miles on it since the minor changes were done to it. It still does not use any oil.

Good luck with your decision

You funny!

[DCFIREMANN]

Howie a little bit of info for you to ponder....in 1980 we changed the oil in a 4230 John Deere tractor on the farm to Amsoil 15-40 oil. The tractor had 50 hours on it. Today the same tractor has 20,000 hours on it and it is still running strong. The oil has NEVER been drained out of the pan. Only the filter has been changed every 100 hours and the oil topped off to the full mark. It still does not use any more or less oil than it did when it had 50 hours on it.

In my 04 SEEG I change the oil every 5000 miles. There are a few modifications done to the motor. It has over 25,000 miles on it since the minor changes were done to it. It still does not use any oil.

Good luck with your decision

Yea very minor!!!!! I was hoping you would tell us your 103 still doesn't use any oil!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[hogasm]

Yea very minor!!!!! I was hoping you would tell us your 103 still doesn't use any oil!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Since we fixed the oil blow-by with the Kuryakyn breather parts..the motor has not used any oil.

[hogasm]

You funny!

WHAT

I still have the stock cases, and crank