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CVO Social => In The News => Topic started by: JCZ on October 21, 2008, 10:21:39 PM
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Mongols motorcycle gang arrested in federal sweep
By THOMAS WATKINS, Associated Press Writer Thomas Watkins, Associated Press Writer – 48 mins ago AP – Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, at podium, speaks during a news conference Tuesday, Oct. 21, 2008, …
Slideshow: Mongol Motorcycle Gang Play Video Video: At Least 31 Arrested In Motorcycle Gang Bust CBS 2 / KCAL 9 Los Angeles LOS ANGELES – Dozens of burly, tattoo-covered members of the Mongol motorcycle gang were arrested Tuesday by federal agents in six states following a three-year investigation in which undercover agents infiltrated the group.
More than 60 members of the Southern California-based Mongol Motorcycle Club were arrested under a federal racketeering indictment that included charges of murder, attempted murder, assault, as well as gun and drug violations, said Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives spokesman Mike Hoffman.
During some arrests, sharpshooters stood guard on surrounding rooftops as motorcycles were lined up and confiscated.
"It's going to be a large hit to their organization. We are arresting many of their top members," Hoffman said.
U.S. Attorney Thomas O'Brien said he believed it to be the highest number of arrests of a motorcycle gang in the nation's history.
His staff planned to ask a judge for an injunction to seize the Mongols' trademarked name, a first for federal authorities. If the order is approved, no member would be able to wear a jacket or ride a bike bearing the gang's name.
"It would allow law enforcement to seize the leather jackets right off their back," O'Brien said.
Federal and local agents had 110 federal arrest warrants and 160 search warrants that were being served across Southern California and in Nevada, Oregon, Colorado, Washington and Ohio. The sweep, dubbed Operation Black Rain, was to continue throughout the day Tuesday, agents said.
Among those arrested were the gang's former national president, Ruben Cavazos.
Hoffman said the Mongols had been recruiting members of Los Angeles street gangs to assist in their operations.
The Mongols are primarily Latino and formed because the Hells Angels refused to allow Hispanic members.
Four ATF agents infiltrated the gang and were accepted as full members, a difficult process that requires winning the trust of the gang's top leaders over a period of months, Hoffman said.
The agents were required to live away from their families in homes set up to make it look like they lived a Mongols lifestyle, Hoffman said. Four undercover women ATF agents also were involved in the operation, pretending to be biker girlfriends and attending parties with the agents; women are not allowed to become full members of the gang.
"If you go to a party all the time and you don't ever bring a girl around, it's kind of weird," Hoffman said. "Someone might get suspicious."
To be accepted in the gang, the ATF agents had to run errands and were subject to a background check by private detectives.
Outside Cavazos' home in West Covina, about 18 miles east of Los Angeles, a red, custom-modified Harley-Davidson motorbike sat outside. No occupants were home but several police and ATF agents were seen going through items in the house.
Cavazos wrote a memoir titled "Honor Few, Fear None: The Life and Times of a Mongol," published by HarperCollins in June. HarperCollins publicist Sarah Burningham in New York City said she only handles book-related issues for Cavazos, but would forward an e-mail from The Associated Press requesting comment.
Another former Mongols national president, Roger Pinney, alleged in an interview with The Associated Press that Cavazos was the problem, not the club in general.
"They were just on the verge of cleaning up their act," said Pinney, who is no longer a member and is serving probation from his role in an infamous brawl at Laughlin, Nev., in 2002 in which three people died. "It's not a club-run deal. It's individuals who are the ones who decide to commit crimes."
Pinney said he warned other club members that Cavazos was trouble.
"He was throwing all the good members out and bringing gang members in," Pinney said. "He was trying to be a drug lord or something."
Pinney doesn't believe the raid will force the Mongols off the road. "The Mongols aren't going away, and neither are the Hells Angels," he said.
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His staff planned to ask a judge for an injunction to seize the Mongols' trademarked name, a first for federal authorities. If the order is approved, no member would be able to wear a jacket or ride a bike bearing the gang's name.
"It would allow law enforcement to seize the leather jackets right off their back," O'Brien said.
i thinks that the most bizarre part of the entire article
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It is a cool cartoony logo I guess but what would they do with it?? :nixweiss:
Strange is as strange does.. ???
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i thinks that the most bizarre part of the entire article
Tells you there's a superseding indictment coming under the RICO statute. The organization will then be charged as well as the individuals. Property subject to seizure then goes way up. Good news for them is they won't need a patch jacket unless they can talk the "G" into letting them ride one of their former bikes.... ;D
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"It would allow law enforcement to seize the leather jackets right off their back," O'Brien said"
Thye dont wear their colors most of the time anyway. Unless they are in a large group. You don't even need a motorcycle to be a Mongol. They are a disgrace to the MC world.
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Looks like the bike gangs are taking some hits from the law.
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'Bout time....dirtbags, thieves and cowards mostly, imho and unfortunately my experience too... >:(
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I'm guessing that every large motorcycle club out there has/is infiltrated by ATF, DEA, FBI......feds of all types. And much like the mafia in the past couple of decades, is on their way down.
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It is a cool cartoony logo I guess but what would they do with it?? :nixweiss:
Strange is as strange does.. ???
miker
Someone once cautioned folks on this site about putting out personal information such as me for instance. If you couldn't find my house from the member map you can't read. Contact info is available via e-mail etc.I haven't checked your profile, so I don't know how much is out there for the world to see.
Having said that, probably the worst offense one can commit against an outlaw biker is to disrespect his patch. Any Mongol reading your post would be obligated to find you and "deal" with you. I caution you and all of our members as to making comments on the site of this nature. We have 6600 members. I know for a fact several of our members around the country who are fomer patch holders. I have former brothers and friends in the HA, Outlaws and Mongols. Emphasis on former.There is a way to walk away correctly and respectfully from that life. Anyway, Who knows if there are any current members who log onto our site. Many of these guys are as has been pointed out on the HA thread unrecognizable without their colors. I'm not trying to be a dick here or a chicken little. I've lived the life and I know what's what and as a site brother I'm just giving you a heads up. Talk about the arrest, what the various quotes in the article mean etc etc, but stay away from coments like the one you posted above.
B B
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As was the military art from where it all started.
Caricaturistic is a more correct word.
I have my own reasons for a certain amount of distain for some, not all.
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I'm guessing that every large motorcycle club out there has/is infiltrated by ATF, DEA, FBI......feds of all types. And much like the mafia in the past couple of decades, is on their way down.
We have been infiltrated by Scot...
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Judge bans Mongols from wearing trademark logo
October 23, 2008 3:14 AM EDT
LOS ANGELES - Mongols can no longer wear patches bearing the motorcycle gang's insignia following what appears to be an unprecedented court order stripping them of their trademarked logo.
U.S. District Court Judge Florence-Marie Cooper on Wednesday granted an injunction that prohibits gang members, their family members and associates from wearing, licensing, selling or distributing the logo, which typically depicts the profile of a Mongolian warrior wearing sunglasses.
Prosecutors requested the injunction after authorities arrested dozens of Mongol members under a racketeering indictment.
"If a Mongol is wearing a vest or jacket bearing the Mongols patch, that item is pursuant to seizure based on this order," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Steven Welk.
It is believed to be the first case in the nation in which the government has sought to take control of a gang's identity - via its logo - through a court order.
"I've never heard the government going after something like this in this context," said David Welkowitz, a law professor at Whittier Law School. Welkowitz said attorneys and academics who specialize in trademark law are wondering whether the order will stand.
Sixty-four Mongol members have been arrested in six states under an indictment released Tuesday.
The indictment describes a tightly organized group, which is mostly Latino, that routinely engages in murder, torture, drug trafficking and other offenses.
Among 79 people named in the indictment, 15 were still at large, said Mike Hoffman, a spokesman with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
The judge initially issued an injunction Tuesday, but that order was limited to barring the sale or distribution of the logo. New language was added, saying the gang members and their affiliates "shall surrender for seizure all products, clothing, vehicles, motorcycles ... or other materials bearing the Mongols trademark, upon presentation of a copy of this order."
Welk said his office is drafting the protocol for such seizures. Law enforcement agencies could begin enforcing the injunction by Thursday or Friday, he said.
Observers questioned whether the injunction is constitutional.
"Here you have the government stepping in and preventing a rights holder of using the (trade) mark they legally obtained," said attorney Douglas Mirell, who specializes in First Amendment cases.
"It strikes me as a serious potential First Amendment violation to have the government come in and attempt to, and in this case exceed, stripping lawfully obtained rights," he added. "This is one for the record books."
Meanwhile, 44 defendants have appeared in court, all of them pleading not guilty. It wasn't immediately clear whether they had been assigned defense attorneys.
The incarcerated Mongols were being kept at various federal detention centers, separate from inmates loyal to the Mexican Mafia gang, said Anthony Burke, a supervisory inspector with the U.S. Marshals Service in Los Angeles. Segregation of incarcerated rival gang members is common practice.
The Marshal's Service is guarding 60 motorcycles, almost all of them Harley-Davidsons, that were seized during Tuesday's operation. Burke estimated the average value of the customized machines to be $22,000.
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back in the day.....man, there would be a posse rolling. I still have friends from the Day and there has been some softening. While in Mil for 105th, ran into some O-L's and while showing respect, one realized who I was and remembered and received the respect back. and they bought my wife and I refreshments.
The Only reason I'm still alive today is what I learned as a patch wearer, and the fact I no longer fly one.
hmmm same thing can be said about my military experience.
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That Judge must be up for reelection. My call is that ruling has such deep implications it won't stand up to the opposition which will no doubt come... :soapbox:
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That Judge must be up for reelection. My call is that ruling has such deep implications it won't stand up to the opposition which will no doubt come... :soapbox:
It'll be interesting to watch this one in the news. I think it'll go back and forth before it ends up in the supreme court. It's going to get a lot of attention, for sure. I can see where this could have far reaching implications outside of the motorcycling community.
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It'll be interesting to watch this one in the news. I think it'll go back and forth before it ends up in the supreme court. It's going to get a lot of attention, for sure. I can see where this could have far reaching implications outside of the motorcycling community.
Yes, this is very interesting. If one has to divorce oneself from a brand... as I suppose this is kind of what a patch is. A Brand. Would football players be forced to not wear the team colors if indicted on a federal charge?
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i thinks that the most bizarre part of the entire article
Gonna be hell removing the tats. Fire or knife :-\
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I know this post is going to be ill-recieved by some and I apologize in advance for what may be perceived as a knock against the Masons, but here goes anyway.
The Masons and their various temples etc are a world-wide organization with roots that go back 100's of years. In any given year, I'd say it'd be reasonable to assume that a couple dozen of their members get arrested on a world-wide basis. Using that as an example, I do not see how a judge could sieze the Mason's trademarked identity. A stretch ? Perhaps, but justice is blind in this country and so long as only a fraction of an organization can be proven to be engaged in criminal activity, the organization itself cannot be held accountable. I emphasize here, that this is what I believe a competant attorney would claim. This case is going to go very high in our jucicial system and before it is over, the politics of it are going to make stange bedfellows as the saying goes. Don't be surprised to see any number of law abiding groups get involved in this before it's through working it's way to perhaps the Supreme Court. It's a sure bet the ACLU will jump on the bandwagon, most probably before anyone else. And a lot of lawyers might see this as way to gain visibility (which often translates into business)
Just my $0.02
B B
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Yes, this is very interesting. If one has to divorce oneself from a brand... as I suppose this is kind of what a patch is. A Brand. Would football players be forced to not wear the team colors if indicted on a federal charge?
Very different circumstance. The football player analogy indicates that an individual is indicted on a federal charge rather than the team, as an organization. In the Mongol instance, the "G" is proceeding on an overall RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) and will bear the burden of proving that the organization is, in fact being utilized to facilitate criminal acts. I suspect, based upon the extensive criminal allegations alleged, the significant number of members involved, the scope of the criminal activity and the direct testimony of undercover agents that there will be little problem seizing the organization, its' assets and any and all property associated with it. There's several hundred court precedents on RICO prosecutions where the ownership of any and all business assets and/or trademarks have become government property.
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I know this post is going to be ill-recieved by some and I apologize in advance for what may be perceived as a knock against the Masons, but here goes anyway.
The Masons and their various temples etc are a world-wide organization with roots that go back 100's of years. In any given year, I'd say it'd be reasonable to assume that a couple dozen of their members get arrested on a world-wide basis. Using that as an example, I do not see how a judge could sieze the Mason's trademarked identity. A stretch ? Perhaps, but justice is blind in this country and so long as only a fraction of an organization can be proven to be engaged in criminal activity, the organization itself cannot be held accountable. I emphasize here, that this is what I believe a competant attorney would claim. This case is going to go very high in our jucicial system and before it is over, the politics of it are going to make stange bedfellows as the saying goes. Don't be surprised to see any number of law abiding groups get involved in this before it's through working it's way to perhaps the Supreme Court. It's a sure bet the ACLU will jump on the bandwagon, most probably before anyone else. And a lot of lawyers might see this as way to gain visibility (which often translates into business)
Just my $0.02
I concur 100%...
The actions of the court are completely out of bounds. Seizing the properties of those who did wrong? Hmmm, maybe- depending upon how the properties relating to their abilities to commit the crimes, or if they were procured by finances accrued perpetrating a crime. Seizing properties of people who are innocent until proven guilty is a miscarriage of justice. Judicial inequities are becoming more rampant as time goes by, each time we turn a blind eye to situations like this, a little more freedom goes out the window.
B B
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Very different circumstance. The football player analogy indicates that an individual is indicted on a federal charge rather than the team, as an organization. In the Mongol instance, the "G" is proceeding on an overall RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) and will bear the burden of proving that the organization is, in fact being utilized to facilitate criminal acts. I suspect, based upon the extensive criminal allegations alleged, the significant number of members involved, the scope of the criminal activity and the direct testimony of undercover agents that there will be little problem seizing the organization, its' assets and any and all property associated with it. There's several hundred court precedents on RICO prosecutions where the ownership of any and all business assets and/or trademarks have become government property.
I don't disagree with any of the above and I believe the lower courts will support the above HOWEVER as this works it's way up through the system, I suspect that the challenge of selective prosecution will come into play. I may be wrong, but the implications of this are a bit different than previous RICO based cases. La Cosa Nostra doesn't have any trademarks (or none that I'm aware of ) Same for the Asian Triads and the Russian Mafia and perhaps the largest of them all "La Emme "(literally " the letter M" ) with in excess of 50,000 member has no trademark. While all have been subject to RICO prosecution and in many cases been convicted, I've never seen anything like what was put out today. This is not individuals being charged for belonging to a corrupt organization, this is the organization itself being charged. Several cities here in SoCal enacted ordances of a similar nature which failed to stand up in court. Like somebody said in another post, it will make for interesting reading.
B B
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I'm guessing the "G" will try and prove that the club acquired most of its physical property through illegal activities. that there was very little if any clean money
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Sidebar here. An ex IHMC brother is a Mongol. While he avoided getting caught up in the "sweep" , he will not avoid this. There is no way in hell he'll give up his colors and everything else voluntarily.I am very worried for him and especially for his family. This aspect of this is going to get nasty.
B B
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thats one way to back them into an assault or a resisting arrest charge
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I don't disagree with any of the above and I believe the lower courts will support the above HOWEVER as this works it's way up through the system, I suspect that the challenge of selective prosecution will come into play. I may be wrong, but the implications of this are a bit different than previous RICO based cases. La Cosa Nostra doesn't have any trademarks (or none that I'm aware of ) Same for the Asian Triads and the Russian Mafia and perhaps the largest of them all "La Emme "(literally " the letter M" ) with in excess of 50,000 member has no trademark. While all have been subject to RICO prosecution and in many cases been convicted, I've never seen anything like what was put out today. This is not individuals being charged for belonging to a corrupt organization, this is the organization itself being charged. Several cities here in SoCal enacted ordances of a similar nature which failed to stand up in court. Like somebody said in another post, it will make for interesting reading.
B B
No doubt it will be interesting to watch. As with most cases, the devil is in the details. My guess is the thrust of the prosecution will be directed at the actual events that were perpetrated utilizing the organization to facilitate the acts. For the judge to come up with as strong a finding as reported, the horsepower probably lies within the affidavits for search and arrest warrants. I would take a wild guess that there is considerable more information regarding club involvement than what was brought forward by the uc agents. The mere fact that 4 uc's were in the mix spells informants who assisted either knowingly or unwittingly getting them there. Will be very interesting to see who gets rolled out to testify.
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I there were UCs in the mix, they were there for awhile. You don't have four newbies all arrive at the same time (I'm guessing). And if they've been there awhile, this is a very old investigation, probably in excess of five years, again guessing. Seems there is much more than what we see unfolding. They only bring charges that are hopefully going to stick, or else they keep looking or walk away from the investigation. Again, just guessing.
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Not that I like the Mongols MC Club, but this is total B.S. Our government is getting scary.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hrHOy4sPvBKCo0W7ItrIx-pmaE4gD9402LE84
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Apparently the investigations started right after the Laughlin incident. There were also four ATF women that had infiltrated their confidence, as well.....along with the four agents that became actual patch holders.
I think the thing that might give the gov't the hand up on this one is that they were recruiting members of street gangs that didn't even own a motorcycle. There was a show on one of the cable channels about the Mongols on the series "Gangs" a couple of weeks ago. They talked about this new president recruiting from the street gangs and that they were "part time" members of the Mongols. I think I'll not be the only one that finds that very strange.
But it's that kind of action that might just aid the government in winning on this particular one. At least for awhile....till it gets overturned.
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That "street gang " you're referring to JCZ is "La Emme"
Nuff said
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OMGs have been using street gangs to do their dirty work for a long time now.
These seizures are are result of association with an organization that has been deemed criminal, while members of the Masons have committed criminal acts, their group has not been formed for that reason.
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hmmm, and the G has been using street gangs for some time too, Financing CIA operations takes lots of money that can't be traced. west coast cartels, operating under the guise of gangs but backed by...........Snoop G?
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Street gangs are becoming daily news. Now it's the guys in blue going at it. Last week a CDC (Calif. Dept. of Corrections....aka prison guard) was standing in his garage in full uniform at 5:00 a.m. and was shot and killed. Yesterday they arrested a Sacramento County Deputy Sherriff in connection with that murder and also for having an illegal assault rifle.
This week a federal prison correctional officer was gunned down in his driveway, forty miles south of here, in Stockton but they say the two are unrelated.
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OMGs have been using street gangs to do their dirty work for a long time now.
These seizures are are result of association with an organization that has been deemed criminal, while members of the Masons have committed criminal acts, their group has not been formed for that reason.
See this is where everything gets fuzzy. The Hell's Angels were formed by bored GI's fresh from WWII. The Pagans, Outlawas, Bandidos, Sons of Silence and Mongols more of the same only different wars. In the beginning, there was no difference between the Boozefighters and the Angels. Now of course, the Boozefighters are Nation wide Mom and Pop riding club and the Angels - - -- - well I'd say if this thing with the Mongols sticks we'll see it handed down for a number of organizations. And therein lies the rub if I may paraphrase Shakespear. Where do you draw the line. If the litmus test is that the club " was formed" to promote criminal activity then you've got a tough case to make. We Americans may not like criminals, may advocate their arrest and imprisonment, but we love freedom more and when catching the bad guys infringes on the rights of law abiding citizens then the chit hits the fan. That's one of the great curses of a free society. There are always those who will use the rights of all for the benefit of a few.
As always, just my $0.02 and not necessarily grounded in anything other than 55 years of living
B B
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Good point BB, in discussing where the very thin and razor sharp edge really is. Ironically, the most benign organization can step off into the RICO hole regardless of the original intentions, charter or business history of the enterprise. Case in point is BCCI International Bank and its' subsequent affiliates and holdings within the US. For years BCCI functioned as a boutique entity originated by several London and Dubai bankers of long standing repute as investment specialists. Legitimate, for a while.
Based upon its' track record, it became the "in" place for the rich and famous in US to house out of reach funds. After operating for some time on a legitimate level, BCCI secretly purchased two additional established banks in the US, CenTrust Savings Bank in Miami and Independence Bank of California. Between 1984 and 1991 DEA and IRS tracked approximately 125 cases of drug proceeds through BCCI and the US affiliates all of which had, at one time been legitimate. When the RICO indictment came down in 1991 the "G" seized 550 million in cash, all bank assets including those of BCCI in their branches in Cayman and Panama. Within 30 days over 40 bank employees and associates pled guilty. DOJ managed the physical properties until they were liquidated. Despite a reported 8.5 million in legal fees they fell right off in the RICO hole.
Sorry for the protracted example, but it really points up how the best intentions or business plan can develop into a criminal enterprise and subject itself to extensive seizures and individual criminal exposure.
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http://www.mongolsmc.com/ (http://www.mongolsmc.com/)
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http://www.mongolsmc.com/ (http://www.mongolsmc.com/)
"TO OUR ENEMIES:
A man’s greatest pleasure is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them that which they possess, to see those whom they cherish in tears, to ride their horses, to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.
-Genghis Khan 1162-1227"
Actually, I like that line!!! We should'a been using it on the ME since 9/11! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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"TO OUR ENEMIES:
A man’s greatest pleasure is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them that which they possess, to see those whom they cherish in tears, to ride their horses, to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.
-Genghis Khan 1162-1227"
Actually, I like that line!!! We should'a been using it on the ME since 9/11! ;)
Hoist! 8)
Gotta respect that independence.
Found this - looks like a good read: http://www.amazon.com/Honor-Few-Fear-None-Mongol/dp/0061137898 (http://www.amazon.com/Honor-Few-Fear-None-Mongol/dp/0061137898)
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There should be no respect for someone who claims they are a 1%er... they appear to be part the community when it benefits them.
It boils down to public relations... but make no mistake, they will rape, pillage, or murder in a heart beat.
Don't believe anything you hear or read, and only half of what you see.
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Seems that the outlaw clubs are and have been waaaay out of control north of the border. Bombings, an astounding amount of murders and general mayhem. They serve nothing but themselves and we all get caught up in the crossfire. Good luck up there.
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Chapter 13 says a lot
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Im a little worried how this will affect other 1% clubs that are not actual outlaw clubs. Will this become a much larger witchhunt by some suit and tie's that have no clue about MC's? I am in a club that earns money by having poker runs, partys, renting out our clubhouse for wedings and donations by sponsors etc., we give all of our profits to various organizations, such as local school sports programs, make a wish foundation, special olympics, M.A.D.D. just to name a few, and we raise a lot of $$. So you see, some innocents can be hurt here over this . Time will tell, but I don't think the yanking of colors off anyone for any reason, is such a good idea.
Gotta say it's a lil freaky seeing that Avatar in this thread!!! Not a criticism, just a thought. :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
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Gotta say it's a lil freaky seeing that Avatar in this thread!!! Not a criticism, just a thought. :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
Which is exactly what I mean, people who have no clue, will see a patch holder and instantly think the worse.......god damn those Hog Chapters !!! ;D
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Which is exactly what I mean, people who have no clue, will see a patch holder and instantly think the worse.......god damn those Hog Chapters !!! ;D
Not thinking the worst, best or anything. Just happened to notice is all! And believe me, I'm no HOG dude! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Gotta say it's a lil freaky seeing that Avatar in this thread!!! Not a criticism, just a thought. :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
Freakier still, use photoshop and change it to Red/White or Red/Yellow
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Im a little worried how this will affect other 1% clubs that are not actual outlaw clubs. Will this become a much larger witchhunt by some suit and tie's that have no clue about MC's? I am in a club that earns money by having poker runs, partys, renting out our clubhouse for wedings and donations by sponsors etc., we give all of our profits to various organizations, such as local school sports programs, make a wish foundation, special olympics, M.A.D.D. just to name a few, and we raise a lot of $$. So you see, some innocents can be hurt here over this . Time will tell, but I don't think the yanking of colors off anyone for any reason, is such a good idea.
All 1%ers are omgs... if your in a club that doesn't commit crimes and does charity stuff then your not in the 1%... and if that has to be explained to you than you most definitely are not!
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Sirs, Gents, Brothers (whatever you prefer) I would strongly urge that the discussion in the past few posts on this thread be left alone. You're getting into an area that has been in debate for over 60 years of which no good can come. Lets agree that we disagree on certain aspects of the term 1%er and not get another area of the site locked up and banished into the ozone. Sometimes it's good to be able to kick these type of topics around because as "bikers" we all deal with patch clubs in the various forms. But no good will come from personalizing it.
B B
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Someone needs to stop watching Sons of Anarchy imo. :D
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Someone needs to stop watching Sons of Anarchy imo. :D
What and give up living vicariously ? :)
B B
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What and give up living vicariously ? :)
B B
Yea, your right, plus, I'd have to go back to watching Married with Children to get my Katey Sagal fix....
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I'll take Gemma any day over Peg :2vrolijk_21:
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I'll take Gemma any day over Peg :2vrolijk_21:
Im not that picky.
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Yea, your right, plus, I'd have to go back to watching Married with Children to get my Katey Sagal fix....
Oh she's much more desireable in Sons. I guess I'm drawn to the manipulative type. I like to match wits with em with the winner getting to set the terms of - - - - - oh yeah, family site, better drop this train of thought :P Anyway, she's cool in Sons.
B B
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watch out for those HOG guys, you know that motto. Live to Ride, Ride to Eat, lol.
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watch out for those HOG guys, you know that motto. Live to Ride, Ride to Eat, lol.
:D :D :D
After laughing, I just remembered the real HOG motto is Ride and Have Fun, and I guess the bottom line here is that would be a good motto to think about. If we are riding our rides and having our own kind of fun, what happens to the 1% community will really only be of interest from afar.
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:D :D :D
After laughing, I just remembered the real HOG motto is Ride and Have Fun, and I guess the bottom line here is that would be a good motto to think about. If we are riding our rides and having our own kind of fun, what happens to the 1% community will really only be of interest from afar.
I am in 100% agreement! Coudn't have said it better myself! :znotworthy:
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All's quiet on the Western Front. Nothing in the news about law enforcement rounding up trademarked Mongol items. I'm thinking that folks are trying to figure this out as to how to enforce the judge's order without starting gun fights everywhere. Anyone who thinks these guys are just gonna walk into the nearest cop shop and drop off their stuff is living in a dream world. Anyway, nothing happening that I've seen, heard or read about.
B B
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Y'all watching America's Most Wanted?
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Y'all watching America's Most Wanted?
YES!
Please don't tell me we will see you there!
Must have missed the part you wanted us to see!
:nixweiss:
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Y'all watching America's Most Wanted?
Yessir!
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Wonder what the ATF is gonna do with all those pretty motorcycles? That softail with the dagger dipstick was sweet. I wouldn't want to own one tho'. Surely the ATF won't auction them off. Can you imagine? Sitting at home one quiet evening 10-20 years from now and a bunch of thugs raid your house, kill you, your family.........over a motorcycle.
No way.
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Wonder what the ATF is gonna do with all those pretty motorcycles? That softail with the dagger dipstick was sweet. I wouldn't want to own one tho'. Surely the ATF won't auction them off. Can you imagine? Sitting at home one quiet evening 10-20 years from now and a bunch of thugs raid your house, kill you, your family.........over a motorcycle.
No way.
Seems a little unethical to air a hiding place like that to the general public.
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Seems a little unethical to air a hiding place like that to the general public.
Good point.
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Seems a little unethical to air a hiding place like that to the general public.
Why do you say that AJ? :nixweiss:
:devil:
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Why do you say that AJ? :nixweiss:
:devil:
I'm not speaking for AJ, Charlie, but after he made that post, it dawned on me that disclosing a stash like that might give "n'er-do-wells" an idea. I'm just sayin'.
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I'm not speaking for AJ, Charlie, but after he made that post, it dawned on me that disclosing a stash like that might give "n'er-do-wells" an idea. I'm just sayin'.
They really didn't disclose the location, just said it was a "secret storage area". :nixweiss: I would venture those bikes will all end up as scrap, but stranger things have happened. The Govt. does have a lot of this stuff auctioned off...so keep an eye for a Govt. aution with a lot of MC's in it.
:devil:
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They really didn't disclose the location, just said it was a "secret storage area". :nixweiss: I would venture those bikes will all end up as scrap, but stranger things have happened. The Govt. does have a lot of this stuff auctioned off...so keep an eye for a Govt. aution with a lot of MC's in it. Especially if there's a Frontier in the group
:devil:
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They really didn't disclose the location, just said it was a "secret storage area". I would venture those bikes will all end up as scrap, but stranger things have happened. The Govt. does have a lot of this stuff auctioned off...so keep an eye for a Govt. aution with a lot of MC's in it. Especially if there's a Frontier in the group
Especially a silver - black Frontier?? :'(
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Especially a silver - black Frontier?? :'(
YUP!
>:( >:( >:(
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YUP!
>:( >:( >:(
Uh, sumthin you haven't been telling us Chip? ??? :o
:devil:
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Uh, sumthin you haven't been telling us Chip? ??? :o
:devil:
Naw
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Naw
Phew!! Thank goodness!! :P ;)
:devil:
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For the un-educated, sorry, but I like to argue, ;D
History of the three-piece patch
http://hellbentmc.homestead.com/PatchHistory.html
The AMA was founded in 1924 as an organizing arm of Motorcycle Manufacturers and mainly supported by the Motorcycle Manufacturers to promote motorcycle riding in America. They sanctioned groups of riders from the same area that rode together as motorcycle “clubs”. Some wore complete matching dress outfits with the name of their motorcycle club stitched on the back of their shirts and jackets.
At events, the AMA gave awards for the best-dressed club so this was the start of motorcycle club’s patches.
During an event in 1947 in Hollister, CA when a member of the Booze Fighters Motorcycle Club made the headlines with an exaggerated news story that was later made into a movie called "The Wild Ones".
The AMA wrote an article in their magazine, shortly after this stating, “99% of all of their members are law-abiding citizens and only 1% are “outlaw””. This then, began what is today known as Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs and one percenters. Clubs that were not sanctioned by the AMA and non-members of the AMA were banned from attending AMA events.
In order to designate themselves as an outlaw club to all other clubs, the one percenters cut their club patches into three separate pieces. The top rocker was the name of the club, the center was the emblem of the club, and the bottom rocker was the local from which they came. These outlaw motorcycle clubs put on their own events and parties and did the opposite of what the AMA had been doing. There were no Best Dressed awards, they “chopped” down their bikes to go faster and look different, rode with no mufflers, they would drink, and do other “wild” things. Such is history.
The term “colors” is used in referring to a motorcycle clubs’ patch set up. In the case of a 3 piece ..... One is placed over the top of the middle large graphic patch and one placed underneath it. The “rockers” are usually curved bars with the top bar designating the club name and the lower bar designating the location of the club. The two rockers are separate from the middle, larger graphic type patch, hence the term three-piece patch. Motorcycle clubs differ from motorcycling organizations as they traditionally have “prospecting” time required before the club members decide whether the individual will be accepted into the group and allowed to wear or “fly” the “colors” of the group. Most club “colors” will also have M/C printed on the “rocker” or a seperate "cube" patch with MC on it to further clarify it as a club rather than an organization.
Many national organizations in the early 1980’s set policy to unite their “rockers” with their patch to make it one piece to avoid any designation or confusion within the motorcycling club community. H.O.G. (Harley Owners Group) and the Blue Knights (police officers) are an example.
*****************************************************************************
As motorcycle club patches are recognized today:
• A one-piece patch normally signifies a family club or Social motorcycle club when it's done with respect to the area clubs.
• A two-piece patch can have many different meanings as long as it's done with respect to the area clubs.
• A three-piece patch normally means that the club is a Traditional MC club. With the top rocker being the club name, the middle being their patch and the bottom being the territory they exist in. There are also a few 3pc patch clubs where the bottom rocker has something other than territory, such as a saying. The traditional MC is one that adheres to the protocols and traditions established. There are few exceptions, but, traditional clubs are approved by the local dominant. The traditional 3pc patch club is not necessarily a 1% club or even the dominant club.
The Diamond patch with "1%" or "13" worn with the 3pc back patch signifies the club is a 1% or 1% support club.
While rare, they may not be the dominant club for the area but will be sanctioned by the local dominant. There are also a few areas where the domiant is not a 1% club, but those are few.
When one is just is hanging around, he has no part of the patch. Then when he is sponsored by a full member and approved by the club as a prospect he may wear the lower rocker that only says "Prospect". In some areas, the prospect wears the "Prospect" rocker at the top of the vest. Some clubs even allow the lower rocker saying prospect and the upper rocker with the club name but not the main patch. Different clubs do things differently across the country. Different rocker combinations of what a prospect might wear differs depending on each club.
If he is approved after his prospect time has been determined to be over and the vote goes in his favor, he then is allowed to have the full colors and is considered to be a full member, having all three pieces if that club uses the 3 piece patch.
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There should be no respect for someone who claims they are a 1%er... they appear to be part the community when it benefits them.
It boils down to public relations... but make no mistake, they will rape, pillage, or murder in a heart beat.
Don't believe anything you hear or read, and only half of what you see.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rcvsmc-edu/index.html
Murphy, try the link above, some more good reading for you, lots of good info....I'd answer any questions you might have, but I will be way too busy rapeing pillaging and murdering everyone in your village tonight. ;)
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I don't need to try any links, I am very familiar with the history, you can just keep pretending!
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I don't need to try any links, I am very familiar with the history, you can just keep pretending!
Sounds like you might have a tale worth telling murphy. How bout lettin the rest of us in on it.
B B
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Like I said before Mike... keep pretending!
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OK Murphy and Mike, give this a rest. It's getting too personal. If this continues, the thread will be locked.