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[CVOStreetglide]

This Bloomberg Business article is a very good read and answers many of the questions we all like to pose periodically about Harleys future.

http://bloom.bg/1GfOnME


Jerry

[Cat Eye]

Its Harley's business to loose....funny they didn't mention quality, whether good nor bad?

[Dr.D]

Todays Harley buyers are old. Over 50 at least for the most part and that may becoming a problem.I think the new bikers are going for the sport bikes and see the geezer glide as a sign of being near death with old age. These things are also expensive to the point of being unattainable by the young family man. Looking at the big picture HD is damn lucky to be doing as well as it is considering the trouble with the general economy and the quality control issues.

[Jswerve]

Todays Harley buyers are old. Over 50 at least for the most part and that may becoming a problem.I think the new bikers are going for the sport bikes and see the geezer glide as a sign of being near death with old age. These things are also expensive to the point of being unattainable by the young family man. Looking at the big picture HD is damn lucky to be doing as well as it is considering the trouble with the general economy and the quality control issues.

Not necessarily true. I have 3 kids still living at home and I bought my cvo in '12 at age 38. I also had a new street glide in '09 at age 35. I know several people younger than me riding harley baggers.

[HighOnHD]

Not necessarily true. I have 3 kids still living at home and I bought my cvo in '12 at age 38. I also had a new street glide in '09 at age 35. I know several people younger than me riding harley baggers.

Correction. "4 kids living at home." One has two wheels and requires lots of attention and money!

[Jswerve]

Lol! That is correct. Or 3 kids, wife, and mistress.

[HighOnHD]

Lol! That is correct. Or 3 kids, wife, and mistress.

Well if you put it that way... probably one of the cheaper varieties of mistresses out there. On the other hand there are some members here with a whole LOT of mistresses!

[Jswerve]

Well if you put it that way... probably one of the cheaper varieties of mistresses out there. On the other hand there are some members here with a whole LOT of mistresses!

Haha yes! But they don't take half of everything when they leave!

[jr1000yarder]

IDK....just a touch over 40 and been on a bagger going on 6 years.  I kinda like my "geezer glide"

2 kids one in High School other on 2nd year in college....

2 more years and I'm FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[willyB]

I think the big problem that Harley faces is their price point compared to their competition. It's very hard for many regular income folks to justify the extra increase over, say Suzuki, who simply want something to ride.

These are not the biker types that have to ride at every chance. These are the average Joe's just wanting to ride sometimes.

Yamaha Roadliner S (Roadking lookalike) for $14,999 vs. Harley Davidson Roadking for $18,499. $3,500 doesn't sound like much until you think in percentages. That's 19% Less!

Hmmm, man wants Harely. Wife says no. Man tells wife he can save 19% on a Yamaha that is  "just like a Harely". Man gets new motorcycle.

It doesn't really matter to Yamaha if man keeps motorcycle. They just Sold motorcycle to the man.

[FXD_TG]

Sold my HOG shares when it was up; the writing was already on the wall as the tail end of the boomers checked "own a Harley" off of their bucket list.

Not sure how the MoCo will do if the brand ever loses it's magic... and it truly has been magic. 

I'll leave it alone at that and end by saying I've enjoyed the heck out of my Harley's, more so than faster and better engineered machines. I'll never be without one unless someone can figure out how to put more soul in a bike than Harley seems to do.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Todays Harley buyers are old. Over 50 at least for the most part and that may becoming a problem.I think the new bikers are going for the sport bikes and see the geezer glide as a sign of being near death with old age. These things are also expensive to the point of being unattainable by the young family man. Looking at the big picture HD is damn lucky to be doing as well as it is considering the trouble with the general economy and the quality control issues.

Age is an issue, however some of the younger guys are now getting into baggers, but still most Harley buyers are over 50.

I do not believe the cost from say 1980 to today of a Harley has gone up nearly as much as a Home, a car, or a Truck, or even average wages.

So in 1980 an electraglide was around 6K or so, today its around 22K.  In 1989 the half ton GMC 4x4 SLT I bought was 17K, today the same truck is over 45K.  I could be off on the Harley cost in 80, as I sure could not afford one.

I for sure agree with the quality issues Harley is having.  Seems as the economy has gone down so has their quality.  The economy is also hurting Harley I am sure.

[mark]

Here's a great article on why HD is facing rougher times ahead.  Basically, HD's customer base are W/M baby boomers.  As the boomers age away, there are not enough Gen Xers to take their place.  HD sales are down 30% when comparing 2006 to 2012.  Adding to the problem: The Great Recession, quality control issues, etc...

http://investorplace.com/2013/06/harley-davidsons-flat-tire-demographics/#.VTjt-nD3arU

[Dr.D]

Not necessarily true. I have 3 kids still living at home and I bought my cvo in '12 at age 38. I also had a new street glide in '09 at age 35. I know several people younger than me riding harley baggers.

You are a young rider. I am 55 and have only been on Harleys since 2009. The reason I mention age is I think that more men are better financially after age fifty when some of the kids and things are paid off or down and there is more play money to be spent. I would also hope that most are more well off later in life. Harley's, and especially the CVO line are very highly priced and not considered an entry level bike so that culls a lot of the young buyers.

I do think that the "baggers" are now a lot more cool with the slammed SG low profile and all that so the whole idea of the cool bike is changing but the Ultra Limited is still a full fledged geezer tourer. I wonder how many owners really do trips that really require all that storage capacity?

I do not intend any argument and your disagreement is taken well and fully understood. But honestly your still just a kid. Honestly you are the next generation of riders and HD should pay more attention to your ideas and not mine. Hell I'll be dead and you'll still be two wheel and up.

If Harley does have one real asset it is marketing. They do not have to change the bikes just the puplic perception of the buyers. "Hey look guys what was not cool, now is, have another cool aide."

[J-Carr]

Funny that these are just occuring to professional business analysts now.  I pointed out that HD was screwed the day they closed Buell.  Not that they were doing well in that market.  But that is the market they need to do well in now so that people in their 30s who've survived the crotch rocket years have some brand loyalty to the MoCo.  If I've been kicking but on my HD Crotch Rocket I'll look to an HD Cruiser next.  Then a touring bike.  They should have dirt bikes too.  Forcing Buell into a more mainstream model and adding off road lines while branding those bikes over to HD badging would've been a great way to spend some of that money they slurped up in the 90-05 boom years.

But typical of a large corporation run with evil accountants lurking in the background they're stuck now with a line-up that's 90% identical to how it was in 95.  Paint it black and they will come has been HDs brilliant answer.  FAIL has been the overall result.  Had they focused advertising on, and made the Buell line a killer bike at an affordable (But still premium) price they'd be alot better positioned now.

Sorry, but it's gonna be a long downhill slide unless they get an original thinker in there the way they did in the 80s.

[SBB]

So in 1980 an electraglide was around 6K or so,

Dave

My first Harley was in 1977. It was a used 73 Sportster.
I remember riding over to the Harley shop in 78 and looking at an Electra Glide they had on sale.
It was a 78 and they had reduced the price to $3,995.00.
I was in love but the checkbook was thin. I always pay cash for my toys so it took a while to step up to a dresser. In 88 I bought my first bagger an 88 Electra Glide Classic. It was $10,000.00 and I put 25K miles on it before I traded for a 91 Classic.
The list is long but since my first I have always had a bagger. Had a few FXR's, Dyna's, 3 Buell's, Jap bikes, a chit load of dirt bikes but always had a dresser. It has been a great adventure and with 6 bikes in the garage now I hope it will last at least another 30 years.

SBB

[Jswerve]

You are a young rider. I am 55 and have only been on Harleys since 2009. The reason I mention age is I think that more men are better financially after age fifty when some of the kids and things are paid off or down and there is more play money to be spent. I would also hope that most are more well off later in life. Harley's, and especially the CVO line are very highly priced and not considered an entry level bike so that culls a lot of the young buyers.

I do think that the "baggers" are now a lot more cool with the slammed SG low profile and all that so the whole idea of the cool bike is changing but the Ultra Limited is still a full fledged geezer tourer. I wonder how many owners really do trips that really require all that storage capacity?

I do not intend any argument and your disagreement is taken well and fully understood. But honestly your still just a kid. Honestly you are the next generation of riders and HD should pay more attention to your ideas and not mine. Hell I'll be dead and you'll still be two wheel and up.

If Harley does have one real asset it is marketing. They do not have to change the bikes just the puplic perception of the buyers. "Hey look guys what was not cool, now is, have another cool aide."

I hear what you are saying and you make some great points but to be honest spending 33k for my bike was pretty easy to do. Keep in mind a new truck is easily north of 55k. Cars have gotten crazy as well. I drive a 96 jeep that I've been driving for 16 years and plan to keep driving for some years to come. I can bring myself to buy a bike but I can't do it to justify a car or truck. Also, I know neither bike or cars/trucks appreciate, but I feel my Harley will hold value for quite some time.

Jesse

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

 

[Dr.D]

I hear what you are saying and you make some great points but to be honest spending 33k for my bike was pretty easy to do. Keep in mind a new truck is easily north of 55k. Cars have gotten crazy as well. I drive a 96 jeep that I've been driving for 16 years and plan to keep driving for some years to come. I can bring myself to buy a bike but I can't do it to justify a car or truck. Also, I know neither bike or cars/trucks appreciate, but I feel my Harley will hold value for quite some time.

Jesse

Your darn right. I need a new truck but I bought TWO new Harley's. Just got the wife a new SGS last week. For some reason you do n to impress me as the typical man of your age and I mean that in the most complementary fashion. When it is all said and done we do what drives us and for you and I that seems to be a nice bike.

Some things are investments and other are expenditures. I really don't care about the money involved if I enjoy the purchase. Heck I smoke Cuban cigars that cost money are are reduced to pure smoke. I'm a financial genius. LOL

[Jswerve]

Your darn right. I need a new truck but I bought TWO new Harley's. Just got the wife a new SGS last week. For some reason you do n to impress me as the typical man of your age and I mean that in the most complementary fashion. When it is all said and done we do what drives us and for you and I that seems to be a nice bike.

Some things are investments and other are expenditures. I really don't care about the money involved if I enjoy the purchase. Heck I smoke Cuban cigars that cost money are are reduced to pure smoke. I'm a financial genius. LOL

2 Harleys are definitely better than 1!

I especially enjoyed your comments highlighted in bold. Rubber side down Dr. D. Hope we can meet up some day 

[FLSTFI Dave]

Dave

My first Harley was in 1977. It was a used 73 Sportster.
I remember riding over to the Harley shop in 78 and looking at an Electra Glide they had on sale.
It was a 78 and they had reduced the price to $3,995.00.
I was in love but the checkbook was thin. I always pay cash for my toys so it took a while to step up to a dresser. In 88 I bought my first bagger an 88 Electra Glide Classic. It was $10,000.00 and I put 25K miles on it before I traded for a 91 Classic.
The list is long but since my first I have always had a bagger. Had a few FXR's, Dyna's, 3 Buell's, Jap bikes, a chit load of dirt bikes but always had a dresser. It has been a great adventure and with 6 bikes in the garage now I hope it will last at least another 30 years.

SBB

Thanks Chip.  Sort of helps my point, the cost increase on a new Harley has not gone up as fast as the cost of a new Pick-up or car.  My memory was a bit foggy on the cost in 80 as all I could afford in 81 was a 71 Iron Head Sportster.  An that was a stretch.

Your darn right. I need a new truck but I bought TWO new Harley's. Just got the wife a new SGS last week. For some reason you do n to impress me as the typical man of your age and I mean that in the most complementary fashion. When it is all said and done we do what drives us and for you and I that seems to be a nice bike.

Some things are investments and other are expenditures. I really don't care about the money involved if I enjoy the purchase. Heck I smoke Cuban cigars that cost money are are reduced to pure smoke. I'm a financial genius. LOL

Funny, for years I had neighbors asking me how I could ride 30K plus bikes and drive 20K cars.  My answer was, bikes bring joy, cars get us to work or the airport.  Heck, we had 4 harley be fore we had a car over 40K, the wife Range Rover Evoque.  We had Five harley before I had a nice car, a 14 Stingray.  The Stingray does not have 7K miles on it yet, the 15 SERGU has 11,400 miles on it

I do the cigar thing too, and high end Bourbon.  Have several bottles over 100, a few over 200 and two over 300.  If I can afford it, and I enjoy it I am good with it. 

The first thing I do every month though is Fund my retirement.  Main reason is I know I will want nice things when I do not have to work...