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[Harley Guy]

Believe it or not, Harley in one of the best well managed corporations in the world.  Are they perfect...no...there is always room for improvement. 

But when you look at the whole package...HD Motorcycles, HD upgrades, HD attire, DH dealer network, and HD aftermarket stuff....MOCO is impressive and can trade profit for market share anytime they want to.

Got to go now.... need to change my compensator

Well said and I agree.
.

[mark]

It's not anything HD has done...or not done that caused their stock value to slip.  They are producing a product that appealed to baby boomers, and HD's resurgence happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the boomers peak wealth.  Those riders are now aging away, living on retirement incomes, facing health issues, etc. - all the things that cause us not to buy a new bike, accessories, or to quit riding altogether.  Want anecdotal proof: go to a state HOG rally and notice how many trikes you see.  How many attendees are younger than 50?

The boomers were the largest generation and Gen X and Gen Y simply are not big enough to replace us.  What HD is experiencing now is the new normal.  Changing the head of marketing will not overcome demographics.

[Mutant]

I very much agree with CAT EYE. At the end of the day MOCO is still the best option out there, IMHO. Not perfect, who is. I looked at Indian and Victory but I realized that if I needed service or assistance it would not be near by, especially on a trip. Most of those other brands cannot access parts within a "near by" dealer network as we can.

Quality - When I looked closely at the shift linkage, trim, pegs, clutch cable and mechanisms and frame members, Harley was more robust and had a better finish and attention to detail. Not that anything didn't function or was dangerous, stamped metal just isn't as appealing to me.

Not many warranty accessories for a year and has large selections on hand. The huge flexibility of direct mods to the BMS and EMS is a huge blessing. The "fat book" - who else has that? All of the bikes run from the factory, I am a victim of my own imagination.  Plug and Play Accessories - More Chrome - More Horsepower, Oh My!

Let's hope the changes in Management will address concerns and improve the product.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Quality - When I looked closely at the shift linkage, trim, pegs, clutch cable and mechanisms and frame members, Harley was more robust and had a better finish and attention to detail. Not that anything didn't function or was dangerous, stamped metal just isn't as appealing to me.

Quality and shift linkage do not belong in the same sentence.  Out west last summer, a friends 13 Road Glide with 19xxx miles on it had the shift linkage fails, all the splines stripped out on the arm side of the shaft.  Another Friend has his fail on a 14 CVO Limited, with 18xxx miles on the bike.  My 15 SERGU had the splines fail on the arm side also, with 22xxx on the bike.  So they may look nice, but sure do not last. 

This is not the first Harley I have had this fail on.

Lifters, well I have had them fail on two CVO's, a 09 and a 12.  A friend had them fail with 20,5xx on his 14 CVO limited while we were out west, so that huge dealer network sure is needed.

It's not anything HD has done...or not done that caused their stock value to slip.  They are producing a product that appealed to baby boomers, and HD's resurgence happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the boomers peak wealth.  Those riders are now aging away, living on retirement incomes, facing health issues, etc. - all the things that cause us not to buy a new bike, accessories, or to quit riding altogether.  Want anecdotal proof: go to a state HOG rally and notice how many trikes you see.  How many attendees are younger than 50?

The boomers were the largest generation and Gen X and Gen Y simply are not big enough to replace us.  What HD is experiencing now is the new normal.  Changing the head of marketing will not overcome demographics.

I know many riding HD in their 40's and several in their 30's.  They can't take time off to go to a HOG rally.  Many would rather use their vacation for Daytona, Sturgis or such.

Me I am 52.  I have been buying CVO's since 09, 4 to be exact, along with 4 Harleys for my wife since 09.  I will be on a two wheel bike for many more years.  Yet I am the customer they are pushing away with the quality issues. 

Harley is my favorite.  That said the price keeps going up, since 09 and the quality going down, and the product cheapened.  Use to be CVO got a new paint design and color each year.  I think its five years for the same design on the CVO limited, I know it's 3 years on the SERGU.  Heck even the colors are a repeat. 

Lets see, Lifter fail on two of the above bikes, shift linkages on 2 of the above bikes.  Regulator on one of the bikes, a stator on one of the bikes.  All these were on less than two year old bikes.

BMW or Goldwing keeps looking better and better for reliability and quality even though the style sure is not there.

[RayG]

Most everyone has made allot of sense as to where the MOCO and it's market is at this point in time.  When I purchased my 08 SERK I was 54, health & and finances were much better than they are right now.  Like many others as I age I have had to decrease my riding time and decrease my spending so a CVO replacement will not happen in this life time.  I have however improved my mechanical ability, not something I had planned but had to do out of necessity.  It started with fluid changes and has escalated to a jack, lift and a No Mar tire machine because I just could not handle the workmanship and prices from the dealer.  If I was younger and things were differently financially I still would not purchase another Harley, but that does not mean the next machine will be perfect just a chance of doing less maintenance than I had to learn.  I have put way to many new parts on a 08 just to reach 85,000 miles.  We all have different personal circumstances and I would go in a different direction given the opportunity.  I have to say there may never be another bike that has the eye appeal that the Harley has but once I'm on the road I'm looking to be able to be able to ride without concern of some kind of failure.  The great part of this is we all have a choice.   

[Road Dad]

I in no way think HD is the best alternative out there. Just wanted to comment that they are doing better and are working in process improvements.

If I only could have one bike there is no way it would be a Harley.   

[willyB]

Any company not improving their product, developing new products, relying on an aging demographic, not being innovative and standing only on their "history" is simply a company that is on the long slow downhill train to failure.

I wonder how the marketplace would react to a Harley Davidson Classic line for the old rich demographic that plays dress up in cool black leather and a HD Modern line for the riders that prefer HP over TQ, Sport over Cruise, Technology over History.

Imagine a VRod engine in a slim/sporting style Streetglide.

[phato1]

Any company not improving their product, developing new products, relying on an aging demographic, not being innovative and standing only on their "history" is simply a company that is on the long slow downhill train to failure.

I wonder how the marketplace would react to a Harley Davidson Classic line for the old rich demographic that plays dress up in cool black leather and a HD Modern line for the riders that prefer HP over TQ, Sport over Cruise, Technology over History.

Imagine a VRod engine in a slim/sporting style Streetglide.

They sorta tried that with Buell and just when things were looking promising as far as a high HP sport bike that worked well they pulled the plug. Perhaps because of Eric Buell deciding to work with another company to develop the powerplant and stop using the Sportster based engine???

And they did own MV Agusta for while, unfortunately HD didn't really know what to do with that brand... HD spent a bunch of money on tooling and process improvements only to end up selling the company. If I remember right they actually sold it at a loss back to one of the original founders of MV.

Gives me the impression that HD'S heart really isn't in it when it comes to venturing outside their "core" demographic. Which is all us  older guys wearing the cool looking leather jackets.

[skycat]

Whats so annoying is we have paid a ton of money for a upmarket motorcycle that does not deliver, the CVO of today is not the CVO of old.
My 2015 SG has this imitation carbon fiber stuck all over the place and after 1600km is starting to come unstuck  . Along with all the loose bolts and the poor paint quality plus all the other issues we all know about.

I am not surprised that even the Harley faithful are secretly annoyed.

So what do we do ? My protest is simple, i will NOT purchase another new Harley Davidson ever.. 
Yes i know that you only see and read about unhappy owners on line, hardly ever about happy owners.
But i do know that my good old 2003 lowrider has never had any issues from day 1, my 2015 SG the list keeps growing and its all about cutting costs and poor quality.
I still enjoy riding the bike its just these annoying things that sour the taste of Harley ownership. sorry for the rant..

[Road Dad]

Old topic I know but I had dinner with Keith Wandell tonight. (He retired from Harley in May last year). It was very interesting and gave me some good insight in to Harley.

Not in a big event. Just Keith, myself and a few other "corporate people" at the table.

[bigchuck]

Old topic I know but I had dinner with Keith Wandell tonight. (He retired from Harley in May last year). It was very interesting and gave me some good insight in to Harley.

Not in a big event. Just Keith, myself and a few other "corporate people" at the table.

So are you going to share some of that insight or are you just wanting to keep this old thread alive for some reason?

[2soaper]

I'm not not really one to complain but I'll to agree to certain extent, for the price of a CVO there quality control has been somewhat poor. I have had couple recalls which I had to find on my own research, the paint clear coat is very soft, gas pumping out of fill port on the tank and flooding over a hot engine (Harley never responded to those incidence's) and the latest is what looks like lacquer on the inside of my gauges.  Kinda of disappointing though I'll say my dealer has been very good about taking care of things.

[greglyon]

Part of the HD marketing problem is the aging of their customer base but the bigger problem is a boring product lineup.  HD gives the old saying "same ole same ole" new meaning.  Being true to your roots doesn't mean not giving the customer new choices.
How many different ways can you put together a soft tail?  It's like the old GM distinguishing their cars by the trim. 

If HD introduced exciting new bikes and not just blacked out this and that, some of the old folks would look hard and they might even attract some newbies! 

[Para Bellum]

So are you going to share some of that insight or are you just wanting to keep this old thread alive for some reason? bragging?

[bigchuck]

Wandell would have great insight on how to raise profit margin. That's if you don't mind laying off workers, while speeding up assembly and not worrying about quality control.