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[Twolanerider]

Radio and harness arrived today.  Installed and working.  Hopefully the XM package will be delivered tomorrow and the task can be buttoned up.

Roeders Harley in Sandusky, OH is the dealership that supplied the parts and did whatever software load was required to make the new radio work in the 05 and earlier bikes.  The rep there to speak to is Tom in the Parts Department.  Phone number there is 419-621-1046.  If you're interested in doing this don't hesitiate to give him a call.  Service and support have been outstanding.

At time of order I was told the cheaper and less involved accessory harnesses (there are two of these) can't be used for our purposes.  They are supposed to only work on Ultras and they plug in to harness points that are part of the 06 Ultras stock harness.  So if you're retrofitting you have to use the "big harness" that is HD part number 70169-06.  It's MSRP is $125.00.

The other parts to complete the job of retrofitting an Advanced Audio Radio and XM package are the radio/speaker kit itself (HD # 76412-06), the XM accessory kit (HD # 76404-06) and the XM antenna mounting bracket (HD # 76456-06).  Full MSRP on all the pieces would be about $1625.00.  Final freight inclusive price on the parts from Roeders was just over $1325.00.

[Twolanerider]

The harness is at least considerable.  Lots of things there we'll likely never use unless you're willing to change dash or switch housing or other things to complete the intercom or CB kit or other options.  But if anyone wants to get that energetic starting with this harness allows it.

Notice in the picture that one of the plugs has green tape on two wires.  That plug would normally connect to the bikes harness on 06 and newer bikes.  It energizes the accessory functions.  The two wires currently taped are the only things in the whole retrofit that are not directly plug and play.  One of those two wires needs a leg tapped off of it that goes to ground.  The other needs a leg tapped off of it that goes to an unswitched 12v source.  That "always on" 12v source is what keeps the XM radio from forgetting what channel it was on whenever you turn the bike off.

[Twolanerider]

The radios are physically somewhat different.  The new radio (on the left) is thinner.  But you'll gain the thickness back when you start stacking XM or CB modules on top of it.

[Twolanerider]

Both radios from the rear.  The new one is on top.  The connector to the left (as seen in the picture) is identical on both radios.  That's the main connector from the bike's harness.  The big connector on the new radio goes to the accessory harness.  The other connector on the old radio goes to the overlay harness.  Don't forget, the radios in the SEEGs aren't a "stock" radio.  The amplified radio has that overlay harness that carries the amplified source out to the speakers.  In other words, our original speaker connections come from a harness WE DON'T USE ANYMORE.

[Twolanerider]

The original "stock" connectors for the speakers are part of the stock harness though.  You just use those.  Here's where you'll find the left one (on the right side as your facing the front of the bike).

[Twolanerider]

And the right side (left side as your facing the front of the bike).

[Twolanerider]

The overlay harness for our original radio is no longer used.  It looks like this as it's tied up over out of harm's way.  After imaging it the connector was capped and taped to keep it clean.

[Twolanerider]

The XM antenna bracket may have been the biggest puzzle in the entire project so far.  Couldn't figure out where it mounted.  After about 10 minutes and a couple of foul oaths finally found the place and orientation.  It goes here just inboard of the left speaker. Don't be confused by the white round thing spanning across the picture.  That's the AM/FM antenna (TuneTrapper) I use since I hated the whip antenna and removed it.

[Twolanerider]

The radio itself mounted and connected to the bike.  Right now tidier than the stock radio.  Will look much busier once the XM hardware gets added and much much busier when that large overlay harness gets added and has its remaining connectors dangling as neatly as they might.

[Twolanerider]

Radio on startup.

[Twolanerider]

Radio playing (can you hear it?).

[Twolanerider]

Will finish this up hopefully tomorrow evening if the box with the XM kit shows up tomorrow.  The radio itself, however, was a simple swap out.  Don't forget to change which speaker wires you're using and then just R&R the radios.

First impression of sound for those wondering about whether the accessory amp will be necessary or not is that I don't know yet.  It is better than a "stock" Harley radio.  With the Hogtunes installed and the bike in the garage I can't notice much difference as to "how loud" about half volume seemed before and after.  They seem close to the same.  But that's in the garage.  Will have a much better clue how acceptable it'll be after the XM parts get here so I can get the fairing back on and try it on the road.  First impressions were promising for audio quantity and clarity.  But those were only first impressions.

Also realized I'm going to have to see what kind of owner's manual Harley has out for the Advanced Audio package.  Whether it's something separate or part of an 06 touring bike's owners manual.  Just need to make sure I'm not missing any cool functions.  Already noticed, for example, that this radio scrolled through more than the 4 weather bands that the old radio searched.

When Harley finally releases it's own version of a retrofit package the radio part number might change so don't take the one listed above here as gospel.  It also seems very likely that a new accessory harness would be engineered that was a direct plug in for the power source.  There is little in the way of "directions" supplied with the kit except for the instructions for handling the two wires to take to "12v unswitched" and "ground." That's not a big deal though.  Everything is straightforward.  Hopefully posting the process here will be enough extra help to get the job done should someone feel slightly unsure.

[Crawdaddy]

2lane

Am I understanding you right, you have a after market retrofit of the 06 advanced radio?

I have wanted this since I saw the 06 Ultra.  Only I want the CB/interrcom in addition to the XM.

Is there any confirmation that you are aware of that HD will have this on the market anytime soon?

Your pics and commentary are good, but I am not sure I have the electrical aptitude (being a mechanical guy) to install this myself.  How do you rate the learning curve from one to ten?  Judging from your post time, you burned some late night oil.  How many hours do you have or expect to have to complete this install?

Craw

[hd-dude]

Great write up on the new radio Don. I'm really interested if the sound will be as good as our units. What is the wattage output of the new radio?

[Twolanerider]

2lane

Am I understanding you right, you have a after market retrofit of the 06 advanced radio?

I have wanted this since I saw the 06 Ultra.  Only I want the CB/interrcom in addition to the XM.

CD,

Actually it's not even an "aftermarket" installation; all Harley parts.  I've seen nothing from the aftermarket yet to make accomplishing this.  Also, I've read nothing from Harley anyplace about a factory released retrofit package yet.  As usual, there probably won't be any advanced warning.  It'll just show up someday.  But so far everyone and everything says we can't do this; at least not yet.  So I went ahead and did it anyway.

So far as time on task it's not totally done yet.  Only two of three boxes that were shipped arrived yesterday.  So the XM package isn't on the bike yet.  But the radio installation itself was a snap.  Was working on it during the overnight because that's just when I got around to it (I'm a bit of a night owl).  Total time to pull the fairing, swap the radios, and have the radio itself working was just a bit over an hour.  

The radio itself is a pretty simple task to R&R.  The XM addition shouldn't be any big deal either.  The CB kit you're interested in, however, will take as long as all the rest of it put together.  It'll require adding a new switch and housing to your left controls.  That means running more wires through the bars.  The CB kit is also described as adding a "dash pod."  I haven't even seen that part in person yet.  But you've got to guess it means changing our dash (that matches our paint job) to something that will accept this "pod."  Again, it's just a guess here but I'm assuming the "pod" is a place to plug in a headset (too bad Harley doesn't offer us a Bluetooth helmet to eliminate the ugly and annoying cords and plugs).

So, in short, yes, the 06 radio is in the 05 bike and (so far) working flawlessly.  It's not a big deal to install.  The XM kit won't be either.  All of the other accessories could also be added if one were so inclined.  In some cases, however, we'd have to be changing dash or switch components to be able to get it done or hanging enough stuff in the tour pak that, in practice, we'd never want to take it off again.  That's not isolated to just us though.  Anyone with an 06 touring bike that didn't have all of it to begin with would have to make the same changes.  It's just part of the package.

CD, if you want to get started on a changeover sometime but don't want to muck about inside the fairing just give me a call.  We're only just over an hour away from one another.  Get your radio, ride down here, we'll hole up in the garage some Saturday afternoon, drink a beer or three and install you a new radio.

[Twolanerider]

Great write up on the new radio Don. I'm really interested if the sound will be as good as our units. What is the wattage output of the new radio?

Dude, will let you know my ear's impression of sound comparison on the road as soon as the XM package shows up and I get it put back together.  Even I'm not so impatient to put the fairing back on and ride to listen to now and then pull it back apart for the XM package that should be at the door this afternoon  

If I remember correctly the amp in the new radio is supposed to be 20 watts. This is opposed to the 60 watt amp in the radio in the SEEGs stock.  Given what I heard in the garage last night, however, the new radio was sharp and crisp (with the HogTunes) well up in the volume band.  Given the size of the heat sink on the new radio I'm even wondering if the 20 amp rating might be on the low side again.  Hearing it on the road will be the only proof that matters though.  I honestly don't care what the amp is rated for so long as the package sounds good enough to hear on the road.  If it does, great.  If it doesn't I've already discovered that adding the accessory amp will be a pretty simple task to our bikes.

[jeffj]

When it comes to working on anything - I am: "Tim the Tool Man Taylor"

Awesome post as I felt I was working with you (OK drinking a cold one, while you worked) during the process of changing out the stereo.

When you get the XM Stereo hooked up go to channel 46 for some great music and channel 150 & 151 for some funny comedy.

[pj57]

The Don does it Again!  Congrats!  Excellent, excellent post, Twolane.  By the way folks you may remember I bought a radio from Chicago Harley and tried to install myself.  Once the whole notion of upgrading the software in the unit came up I knew I was sunk - Out $800+ or so I thought.  I contacted Tom at Roeder's and thanks to dropping Twolane's name, they are going to program my radio for $100 even though I didn't buy it there.  If I buy a couple of accessories, XM,CB module or navigation, they might even do it for free.  I'm hoping to have the radio back by the weekend to do the install - can't wait.  Ya' know? There haven't been too many issues that have come up on this site that we haven't been able to solve/resolve. I, for one, am very thankful for the collective minds we got here (plus I'm really happy I don't have to eat a $800 radio so I'm kissin' everybody's butt)  Also, as dealers come and go, Roeder's certainly has impressed me with their customer service -  PJ    

[Twolanerider]

Really glad you're getting things worked out PJ.  Tom at Roeders has proved to be a really good guy to work with.

And on to XM.  The XM kit arrived today.  Didn't feel like working late tonight so just stopped and did it.  Here's what you'll get in the XM package.  By the way, if this had arrived with the other parts its instruction manual would have told me where to mount the antenna bracket and I'd not have wasted ten minutes trying to figure out the jigsaw puzzle.

[Twolanerider]

The new radio has rubber grommeted mounting holes along its front end that the rear of accessory pieces mount to.  See the grommets on top of the radio here.

By the way, sorry to some who might not care for the extra level of detail.  But there were a couple of PMs today from guys thinking about doing this who wanted a fair amount of detail.

The mounting grommets......

[Twolanerider]

The accessory pieces that will mount on top of the radio have nubs like this to mate to those grommets.

[Twolanerider]

And a screw that already exists in the back of the radio is removed and reused to complete the physical mounting.

[Twolanerider]

This image shows the new large harness plugged in to the radio.  As your seeing it now it's plugged in to the right side of the radio and draped down over the front tire.  That's a lot of harness to hang inside a small space.

[Twolanerider]

On an 06 bike one of the connectors on this new accessory overlay harness would plug in to a point that exists on the bike.  We don't have that connection point.  For XM there are two wires on this connector we have to pay attention to.  One is simply a ground.  The other is a 12v unswitched (always on) lead that allows the XM radio to hold memory of what channel it was on when the bike is turned off.
 
The ground wire is black with a blue stripe.  The 12v leg is red with an orange stripe.  That's also the same color scheme for two 12v unswitched legs that go to the radio itself that are used to maintain clock time and other functions while the bike is switched off.  So finding a mate to power this leg on the accessory harness isn't difficult.

[Twolanerider]

This is the main harness "stock" connector that plugs in the radio.  You can see a red/orange leg that is the mate to the one in the accessory harness.  That's what you'll splice from to power the accessory harness's unswitched power requirement.

[Twolanerider]

Don't be afraid of the word "splice."  You will accomplish this entire installation wthout cutting in two a single wire that is stock either on the bike to begin with or that is part of new accessory harness.  

At the new accessory connector you'll have two connections to make (the ground and the power connection).  At the harness connector that attaches to the radio you'll have one (to the red wire with orange stripe). Use a simple splicing connector like these.  They slide over the existing wire.  They then accept the new wire from one end.  After all the wires are in place just crimp it down to make the connection.  They can be removed later and the original wire is not severed.

Get two pieces of wire.  Preferably red and black.  But it really doesn't matter.  Cut them off plenty long.  

Make the splice connections at the accessory harness.  Then drape the new wires along existing paths for neatness and safety's sake to get the red one over behind the radio and the black one to a ground point.  Once they were cut to length I protected this new "harness" in a run of heat shrink tubing.  Not absolutely necessary if you tidy things up securely.  But protecting wires is never a bad idea.

[Twolanerider]

The harness that plugs in to the radio is protected with a large plastic wire wrap/insulator.  It will have a plastic wire tie holding it closed at the end.  Cut the wire tie to allow access to the wires inside.

Fish out the red/orange wire and make a splice connecting it to the red wire you draped over from the accessory connector.  This picture shows the new red wire tucked back in the harness wrap after the splice has been made and the insulator has been taped back closed at the end to keep everything tidy and protected.

You'll also see the ground wire diving beneath the radio.  We have a convenient grounding point down there waiting to be taken advantage of.

[Twolanerider]

Below the radio you'll see a screw with a 5/16" head already holding one ground wire in place.  This is a convenient location for our need.  Crimp a terminal on the new ground wire at the appropriate length.  Remove the screw.  Slide the newly crimped terminal over the screw along wth the wire that was there to begin with.  And put the screw back in.  

That's it for any wiring requirements for the entire job.  All done  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Twolanerider]

With everything is installed and all the wire laid in place it can all be tidied up surprisingly neatly and securely.  Use a few wire ties to hold things firmly where you'll want them permanently.  Loop the new harness along side the existing harness above the radio.  When done it becomes a surprisingly neat installation.

[Twolanerider]

At this point your back to reinstalling the fairing.  Before doing this activate the XM radio.  Just want to make sure it all works before you put the fairing on.  Surely you checked for continuity on your splices when you made them  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] .  But you can't discount the possibility of a bad new part.

Likely is that everything will work ok though.  Once you see the radio working put the fairing back on and go for a ride  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

As to the speaker question.  It's a 2 ohm radio. So using 4-8 ohm speakers isn't going to hurt anything.  This means that staying with the HogTunes if one is using them is ok.  Using 4 ohm spekaers on a 2 ohm radio may lose you a little mid range and high end.  (Note, you shouldn't go the other way though.  Using 2 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm radio could hurt an amp or speakers.)

Having said all this, I tried both the new speakers that come with the radio and the Hogtunes.  Perhaps it's because the Hogtunes have a bit bigger magnet or just my bad ears.  But the ostensibly "better" 2 ohm speakers really didn't sound any better or different in the areas they'd be expected to.  And when driven to higher levels the HogTunes still seemed a bit clearer; a bit less distortion.  So I stayed with the HogTunes.

Tomorrow I'll get the bike out on the road and see how the amp holds up for powering things to "listen-able" levels going down the road.  From what I've heard in the garage so far I think it's going to be ok.  But will know better whether the accessory amp will be deemed a necessity after the bike has been on the road.

For those wondering about time on the job.  Over the two days I spent just over 2 1/2 hours working on the bike.  Would've been a half hour shorter if I'd not have stopped regularly to grab the camera and jot a few notes to place this here for future use.  So, roughly, a two hour job to add the new radio and XM.  Second time would be quicker of course.  It always is.

[pj57]

Don, I'm usually wordy...here I'll be brief...nice job, thanks for the pics, directions and use of your good name at Roeders. PJ  

[110tHunDer]

Don, is it safe to say this radio would allow the installation of rear speakers on our motorcycles?  That SOB would really ROCK with rear speakers and the additional amp!

                               [smiley=drummer.gif]
                           [smiley=guitarist.gif]      [smiley=guitarist.gif]
                                 [smiley=singer.gif]

[porthole]

I thought I saw an amplifier under the tour pack of the o6 SE Ultra, yes - no?.

If it is part of the package are you going to add that too Don?

[Twolanerider]

Don, is it safe to say this radio would allow the installation of rear speakers on our motorcycles?  That SOB would really ROCK with rear speakers and the additional amp!

                               [smiley=drummer.gif]
                           [smiley=guitarist.gif]      [smiley=guitarist.gif]
                                 [smiley=singer.gif]

Yes Brian.  Sure can.  The rear speakers connect up through the big accessory harness.  That was actually the biggest reason I was glad to have gotten the big accessory harness rather than one of the cheaper ones (after I saw it).

I'd mistakenly just assumed that rear speakers would spool off the primary side of the radio.  They are off the accessory trunk though.  The big accessory harness has connections for everything.  Rear speakers, Nav, CB, rear speakers, you name it.  Even audio connections for a sidecar are part of that harness.

Even if the radio is good without the accessory amp I was still thinking about something like what you seem to be.  Mounting rear speakers and the amp on the King Tour Pak only.  Then just not worrying with it the rest of the time.  The King Pak is what's on the bike when I'm travelling any real distance anyway.

To do rear speakers you'd need yet another harness (70169-06) and the rear speaker kit itself (77155-06).  That rear speaker kit looks to be pretty complete though.  Text from Harley website says this, "Advanced Audio Rear Speaker Kit includes rear speakers, rear pods, and passenger controls for rear headset volume, CB PTT, and radio tuning."

Would need to install plugs in-line so the harnesses could be disconnected to remove the Tour Pak.  But I can't believe that's going to be a major obstacle.  Just a little time in a Waytek catalog.  Might be cool though......

[Twolanerider]

I thought I saw an amplifier under the tour pack of the o6 SE Ultra, yes - no?.

If it is part of the package are you going to add that too Don?

Duane, that amp under the tour pak is one of the many accessories that can be added to these radio kits.  It is not part of the basic radio kit though.  It's not on the red bike right now; at least not yet.  

The new radio has an amp built in.  I want to run it on the road a bit to see how well it sounds before deciding the necessity of buying the extra amp.  If necessary, however, it would mount beneath our tour paks in the same place.

[Darrellh]

Fantastic post, thanks for taking the time to do such a detailed write up. Your post will really help those thinking of making the change and/or installing it. Thanks again.

[Twolanerider]

Fantastic post, thanks for taking the time to do such a detailed write up. Your post will really help those thinking of making the change and/or installing it. Thanks again.

Not a problem.  There have been enough people express an interest there was just no good reason not to take advantage of this install for whomever comes next.  When Harley releases their own retrofit package this little task also gave a pretty good idea for what it'll likely be.  

Probably just a  software CD and a smallish interconnect harness.  Looks like all it would need to be is an interconnect between the radio and the stock harness plug. T's off from there with one to pick up a ground and another four going over to the input connector on the accessory connector that I spliced to for now.

[Crawdaddy]

Don, your right!

To add the CB and intercom would be a nightmare and mess up the look.  I currently have the XM and CB installed with a JM Corp windshield and handlebar mount system.  It took forever to install it.  I personally do not like the console kit just to have a plug and a couple of switches.  I am wondering though if my wiring harness for the JM CB will (with some mods) fit up some how.  I need to take some pics and show you what I have and how its installed.  Happy with it overall, but the XM is frequency modulated and the volume is cut back by about 30% on XM, and the CB will only play through the helmet headset.  I like the helmet in the cooler temperatures but not all the time and summer driving is like wearing a microwave on my head.  I have a half helmet set up also, but the speakers hurt my ears (physically) and have a lousy bass if any at all.   Maybe a subwoofer would help.  If the weather and delivery will work out, I may take you up on the install help.  I'll bring the beers, but not Oklahoma 3.2.

In any case, the radio and XM would clean up my windshield mounted XM and improve the volume issue.  I don't use the CB as much as I thought I would when I installed it.  Mostlly to point out the babes or points of interest when group riding.

[Twolanerider]

CD, here's one more thing to think about.  While I am at least somewhat interested in CB and intercom functions, and the Bluetooth thing as well; the big gains I wanted were XM and the ability to play MP3 discs.  One disc, all day long, no repitition, no problems.  XM and MP3 means I never hear the same song twice in the same day no matter how long I'm stupid enough to ride.

After those bits, however, I'm willing to wait a bit.  Wait on Harley actually.  Since BMW has already released a Bluetooth helmet relieving their riders of cords and plugs from the hat I really doubt Harley intends to let their new fancy radio lag terribly far behind.  Could be completely wrong.  But I'm hoping the summer dealer show brings us the option of CB or intercom or other things without having the "pods" and plugs for the helmet connection.  

I'd gladly plug the helmet in to a charger each evening on the road not to have to mess with ugly plugs and wires to my helmet.  Plus you'd still be able to hear the radio or talk on the phone off the bike.  If the MoCo gets to be that much on-the-ball it's then that I'm spending more money on the bike.

In any case the new radio is the jumping off point.  The XM kit is obvious to go along with it.  If you decide to hang some pieces on the yellow bike sometime just give me a shout.

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

FYI - 06 speakers are 2 ohm, previous years are 8 ohm.  Also, I believe that the speaker wires are a heavier gauge in 06

[Twolanerider]

FYI - 06 speakers are 2 ohm, previous years are 8 ohm.

While generally correct for past years it is incorrect for the Screamin Eagle Electra Glides under discussion here.  The 04 and 05 SEEGs used an amplified audio radio kit (HD 76350-04).  60 watt internal amp and 4 ohm.  Earlier in the thread the difference in the new speaker's spec had also already been detailed.

[GC_Super]

Wow Don. Excellent work and a great tutorial to go with it. I'm sure this will help many folks who want to do the same install. Concerning the power output on the two radios, the old SE radio is 40 watts, 20 per channel, the new one is 80 watts 40 per, and the amp makes it a total of 160, or 80 each.
   BTW, I thought I was going to be able to help you out on selling your old radio as I put the SE amplified radio in my FLHT that I sold,  and I saved all the boxing, instructions, etc. for  if and when the bike was sold. So when it did sell, the new owner rode the bike out of state and didn't want it, so I put it back on the shelf.  But, last week during a cleaning moment, I said, well I'll never need that stuff anymore and tossed it in the trash.  Oh well.    

[Twolanerider]

Wow Don. Excellent work and a great tutorial to go with it. I'm sure this will help many folks who want to do the same install. Concerning the power output on the two radios, the old SE radio is 40 watts, 20 per channel, the new one is 80 watts 40 per,

GC, that's great news if the new radio is 80 watts total.  That would account for why it seemed to "sound" about the same in my totally non-scientific volume and distortion tests conducted in the garage.  Since I got no real docs with it I was going merely by what a tech said and some advertising I'd read for the 40 amp spec on the new radio.  The original SEEG radio from HD kit 76350-04 actually has a 60 watt amp rather than 40 though.  So, if accurate, the 80 watt spec you've shared means the new one is actually bigger.  That'd be good news.

------------------------------------------

Ok, this is a P.S. of sorts to this post.  Just looked up some HD posted specs on the new Advanced Audio Radio to confirm it's amp output.  Both published spec's and a call to SPOC on the radio confirm it does in fact have a 40 watt amp inboard (20 watts per side) as we'd first believed.  That's ok though.  It may be a bit smaller than the 60 amp unit we started with but Harmon Kardon has a good reputation for audio.  So perhaps it's a bit more efficient as well.  Important test will still be later this afternoon when it gets compared "before and after" on the road.

[GC_Super]

Well now I'm really curious.  I know I've seen HD mention the 80 watt stereo.  I wonder if it's 20 amps X 4 for a total of 80?  I know I got pretty excited when I first saw the ad for the SEU and it said 160 watts, which is 40 X 4   I guess.  Maybe we should put the radio on a dyno and check if for sure.  LOL  Main thing is it sounds and performs better. After spending this much money on toys, it better sound good.   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[hd-dude]

I wonder if as with the previous radio there is a CVO version?  40 x 2 for the front built in to the radio and the rear amp adds the 40 x 2 for the rear speakers for the total of 160 watts? Or does the tour pack amp run all four speakers [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If the unit by itself is 20 x 2 i'm not sure how they'd get 160 watts total unless the amp ran all of the speakers.

[grc]

I wonder if as with the previous radio there is a CVO version?  40 x 2 for the front built in to the radio and the rear amp adds the 40 x 2 for the rear speakers for the total of 160 watts? Or does the tour pack amp run all four speakers [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If the unit by itself is 20 x 2 i'm not sure how they'd get 160 watts total unless the amp ran all of the speakers.

From the H-D web site - the radio is rated at 20 watts per channel.  The optional amp "boosts" this by 40 watts per channel (strange way to phrase it, unless they are feeding it with speaker level outputs and not pre-amp outputs).  So does this mean 20 plus 40 equals 60 watts per channel?  That doesn't equate to 160 total amps either.  I'm thinking that it is 40 watts total output per channel times 4.

Advanced Audio High Output Sound System

When loud just isn't loud enough. The high output amplifier provides a [highlight]40-watt per channel boost to the Advanced Audio Sound System [/highlight]for distortion-free sound, even at freeway speeds. Amplifier is installed beneath the rigid mount Tour-Pak® to save storage space.

Fits '06-later Touring models equipped with an Advanced Audio Radio and rigid mount Tour-Pak® luggage system. [highlight]Compatible with 2- and 4-speaker systems. [/highlight]

[jeffj]

From the H-D web site - the radio is rated at 20 watts per channel.  The optional amp "boosts" this by 40 watts per channel (strange way to phrase it, unless they are feeding it with speaker level outputs and not pre-amp outputs).  So does this mean 20 plus 40 equals 60 watts per channel?  That doesn't equate to 160 total amps either.  I'm thinking that it is 40 watts total output per channel times 4.

Advanced Audio High Output Sound System

When loud just isn't loud enough. The high output amplifier provides a [highlight]40-watt per channel boost to the Advanced Audio Sound System [/highlight]for distortion-free sound, even at freeway speeds. Amplifier is installed beneath the rigid mount Tour-Pak® to save storage space.

Fits '06-later Touring models equipped with an Advanced Audio Radio and rigid mount Tour-Pak® luggage system. [highlight]Compatible with 2- and 4-speaker systems. [/highlight]

My 06 CUSE has the Advanced Audio and to be honest it is pretty much distortion-free with full volume. There is not to many times I had to have the volume past 3/4's as its pretty loud and clear. The only thing I don't care for is the amp under the tour pak and that huge cable

see cable in attached pic:

[Twolanerider]

GRC, Dude, et.al, I may be able to clarify the amp question.  It was confusing (at least to me).  But I got to be on the phone with the parts guy I know when he was on the phone with SPOC for the radio information this morning.  As it was explained from someone who truly sounded like he knew what he was talking about the specification on the radio is 20 watts per channel.  So it's listed as a 40 watt amp when running the two front speakers.

The guy also said they did (very early on) have some advertising out that was too misleading (not his words, but that's what he meant) even for Harley to live with it.  This listed the radio as an 80 watt unit.  This could be correct if one had the front and rear speakers as the amp is 20 watts per channel and the rear speakers can be added with or without the accessory external amp being used.  Since a large large majority of the applications don't have the rear speakers, however, the "40 amp" description was more practically accurate.

The same math works for the accessory amp.  It adds its heft to front speakers alone or front and rear if the rears are installed.  But its gain is an additional 20 watts per channel.  So when the advertisements we're seeing say the external amp allows us 40 watts per channel none of that specifically say it's 40 amps from the accessory amp by itself.  They're speaking to it in combination with the primary amp in the radio.  It's a system total number (which makes sense in an advertising sort of way).  So the external amp, plus the internal amp, X 4 speakers gets us to 160 amps.

[Twolanerider]

My 06 CUSE has the Advanced Audio and to be honest it is pretty much distortion-free with full volume. There is not to many times I had to have the volume past 3/4's as its pretty loud and clear. The only thing I don't care for is the amp under the tour pak and that huge cable

see cable in attached pic:

Jeff, thank you very much.  I'd seen one the units mounted but didn't have a camera in hand at the time.  That is exactly the image that someone had asked me for.  It's tough to describe in words.  And that big-ass cable is the only reason I really want to be able to get by without needing the accessory amp with the new radio.

[naitram]

if you did the rear pods without the amp, then a small connector makes the tour pak removable

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

2006 non CVO is 20w per channel peak for a total of 80 peak if you have 4 speakers.  If you add the amp, it's 40 wats peak per channel for a total of 160 peak.  If you add a sidecar, the front speaker leads from the radio go to the amp, and the amp drives the 4 speakers at 40 watts peak each and the radio head unit drives the sidecar for a total of the 20 watts each peak.  Total system power then becomes 200watts peak.
Also, good catch on my comment regarding 8ohm speakers, I forgot to mention 8ohm pre 06, then 4(cvo) now 2 ohm 2006 and later

[110tHunDer]

only thing I don't care for is the amp under the tour pak and that huge cable

What doubly stinks about that cable is it is on the high side when the bike is parked which makes it more noticeable.  Seems like if they had to put it on the side like that, instead of straight out the front, they should have put it on the opposite side. [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=dunce2.gif]

[FR8TRN]

Great job, lots of folks are gonna want this.  One thing, on your observations with the hogtunes and the new radio, '06 speakers are 2ohms instead of 8ohms, I tried using my hogtunes with the new setup and noticed no difference, probably because of the impedance.  Pez with hogtunes has an '06 Classic now and is working on speakers for it and the Ultra's so they will be coming, when he wasn't able to say yet.

Didn't realize this was gonna be such a simple task, glad to see they didn't mess with the connections any, others should be able to swap this right in.  Don't understand the power thing though, the old radio's had unswitched power also, should of carried that over to the new if your gonna bring everything else over.  Oh well, 2 wires is easy.

[Twolanerider]

Finally got a chance this morning to take the bike out for a bit and compare volume levels on the road before and after.  No sound meters or anything.  Just my ears inside a 3/4 helmet on the red bike.

With the original radio and the original speakers I remember having to run the volume up to nearly full volume to be able to hear sound when going down the road at 75-80 mph.  And I mean that literally.  Just hear sound.  The stock speakers distorted badly when ran up that high.  The HogTunes speakers fixed that.  For the same speed volume needed to be at only about half of full volume and the speakers never distorted no matter how high the volume level was run.

New radio with its smaller amp.  Not as much volume as the old radio.  And it's a definite difference.  Having said that, however, there is enough volume.  With either the HogTunes or the new speakers that came wtih the radio (tried them both) was back to running somewhere around 80 to 85% of full volume to hear it going down the road at highway speeds.  Taking it all the way to full volume really didn't make too much difference from there.   With just the speakers in the fairing a passenger might have issues.  I honestly can't speak to this issue right now.

The good news here is that with either speakers there's not any distortion or breakdown all the way through full volume.  So spoken words or music stay as clear as they're going to stay in the ambient environment we provide.

The new radio gives us a front to rear fader control from the handlebars that we didn't have before.  Also an AVC (automatic volume control for adjusting to highway speed) level control we didn't have before.  Getting the sound to be satisfactory at that approximately 85% of full volume mentioned previously took some messing with both of those.  The fader is pushed all the way to the front speakers.  The AVC might still elude me a bit.  Still tinkering but there was gain to be had there.

So, in summary, the radio is perfectly usable with enough sound and good quality sound for the rider right out of the box.  If you had quieter exhaust you'd be in even better shape.  Mine are true duals with White Brother's E Series mufflers.  A fair bit louder than the stock pieces we started with.  Not quite as loud as Rineharts; for a rough comparison.

If you had a fixed tour pak or never removed your detachable tour pak you'd probably consider the accessory amp.  It would give you more headroom.  Sorry that I can't offer insights as to what a passenger might be hearing.  But in the front seat position the radio without the amp is completely acceptable.  I'd also emailed Pez and was told he's got "something coming" to mate the new radios.  Will be interested to see what that will be as well.

All in all the new radio is actually really nice.  The display matches exactly (the red color), the XM system is great and its other new functions are both fun and worthwhile.  The overall audio volume level isn't as much.  But it is enough.  So I find I'm quite satisfied with the changeover.  Love having XM and MP3 as options in the saddle.

[110tHunDer]

. . . Also an AVC (automatic volume control for adjusting to highway speed) level control we didn't have before.  Getting the sound to be satisfactory at that approximately 85% of full volume mentioned previously took some messing with both of those.  The fader is pushed all the way to the front speakers.  The AVC might still elude me a bit.  Still tinkering but there was gain to be had there. . . .

Don, we have AVC on the stock radios.  It's not very intuitive to adjust, but the owners manual does discuss it.  As you point out, having it adjusted correctly can make a difference in the amount of volume you get from the system at highway speeds.  I think the default is something like "2," and I have mine set at "4," I believe.

[Twolanerider]

Don, we have AVC on the stock radios.  It's not very intuitive to adjust, but the owners manual does discuss it.  As you point out, having it adjusted correctly can make a difference in the amount of volume you get from the system at highway speeds.  I think the default is something like "2," and I have mine set at "4," I believe.

I did remember it was there (when I saw it on the new radio).  And had even fiddled with it once when I found it by accident.  When you do this one of the things you'll like is that a lot of system control is now much more easily and logically found.  It's a pretty cool radio actually.

Tom at Roeder's called me (unsolicited) yesterday to say that he had photocopied all the Advanced Audio section from an 06 bike's owner's manual and was mailing it to me.  Am wondering what's in there that I just haven't found yet.

[JR]

Don, I have truly enjoyed reading and following along with your install. Such detail and yet simply stated that even I can follow along. :-? You really need to send this in to American Iron or another such magazines. I talked myself into and out of several times why I should and shouldn't do this to my bananna. As usual I appreciate you and this wonderful site for the wealth of knowledge I receive. God Bless!

                                                              JR [smiley=banana.gif]

By the way, what is it exactly you do for a living?........Wait a minute I remember now......

Don Carey; Male Gigolo

 

[pezsez]

Hey

I recently gave the local service manager a 40 oz bottle of crown royal inexchange for doing testing on an 06 (before I got mine) and found that the 6 ohm Hogtunes were EXTREMELY close to the same volume as the HK 2 ohm speakers. I took advantage of the time, and also tested to find out the sound and found out that ours do sound better IMHO. It bothered me that the volume difference using our speakers in an 06 was not NEARLY as great as the radios they were designed for (98-06) so I had a custom/hand made set of 2 ohm HOGTUNES made up and have them in my bike now. Based on the testing so far--it is VERY safe to say, that by spring 06, there will be a Hogtunes 2 ohm speaker available. HD wants everyone to upgrade the software on the radios, and you guys can burn a CD and do this yourself. Go to the touring section of the MOCO site, and click the picture of the radio-then click "software download"--and follow the destructions.

I would release the 2 ohmers sooner, but have to finish a big project Im on now

Thanks for all your guy's support--Ride Safe out there--email me any questions

PEZ

[pj57]

Pez - thanks for the report on the speakers and download info.  BTW, weren't you working on an in-line amp for the HD radios a while ago?  Any chance you can "pump up the volume" with an amp for the HK unit that's smaller than the factory model?  Just a suggestion - to add to your multiple list of stuff to get done. Folks like us would probably buy a lot of 'em.  - PJ

[pezsez]

HEY PJ

YUP Signed off on amplifier circuits a week ago, and silkscreening this week. In order to make it fit on top of the radio, we did our own cutom aluminum extrusion for the heat sink which was expensive, but the only option. Im F*N tired of engineering drawings!! Of course they were all in millimeters just to make it extra fun. The amplifier will be called USA 24.2 and although is made to mimmick the moco radio power will have a very cool, but unusual feature to prove to eveyone that this is a dedicated motorcycle amplifier--not a rebadged car amp. Looks like it will be 60 degrees F on Sunday--so I will be test thrashing the 2 ohm hand made speakers I have to see if I can break em

Will be in touch......PEZ

[Twolanerider]

HEY PJ

YUP Signed off on amplifier circuits a week ago, and silkscreening this week. In order to make it fit on top of the radio, we did our own cutom aluminum extrusion for the heat sink which was expensive, but the only option. Im F*N tired of engineering drawings!! Of course they were all in millimeters just to make it extra fun. The amplifier will be called USA 24.2 and although is made to mimmick the moco radio power will have a very cool, but unusual feature to prove to eveyone that this is a dedicated motorcycle amplifier--

Um, Pez, don't be a tease.  What will be the amp's output?  What is this mysterious "feature."  How will it mount "on top of the radio" and will that mount work with the XM or other modules that must go on top of the 06 radios?  Two channel or four?  When will be availability?  Can I get fries with that?

[h2oski]

Hey

HD wants everyone to upgrade the software on the radios, and you guys can burn a CD and do this yourself. Go to the touring section of the MOCO site, and click the picture of the radio-then click "software download"--and follow the destructions.


PEZ

This makes me wonder if this is what Roeders is doing on their radios as the "software" change.  I can't believe they have been able to develop something that is compatible with the HK software on their own.  If it is you can order a radio from anyone you want and do the software upgrade yourself.

[pj57]

H2 - you are probably correct...the HD website gives all the details for downloading the newest version of the software.  It probably doesn't require that the radio already have software installed as this is an update - it will replace the old software entirely.  Still, it was worth $100 bucks to get it done - wonder if they are downloading the newest version that's on the website?  -  PJ

[Twolanerider]

This makes me wonder if this is what Roeders is doing on their radios as the "software" change.  I can't believe they have been able to develop something that is compatible with the HK software on their own.  If it is you can order a radio from anyone you want and do the software upgrade yourself.

You could if they sold the software by itself.  Which, unfortunately, the don't.  Even if they load it for you they don't give you a backup copy.

[h2oski]

You could if they sold the software by itself.  Which, unfortunately, the don't.  Even if they load it for you they don't give you a backup copy.

So they are loading the original software onto the stereo for the first time when they recieve it.  You would think the software would be loaded by HK when the stereo is manufactured.  If it is in the radio when they manufacture it then you would only need to perform the upgrade.  

[pezsez]

2lane

The amp is called USA 24.2 and will mimmick the power of the radio. It will be rated at 24 watts x 2 RMS and will have an unusual feature. I cannot get into it due to a licencing deal, but if I havent caught HK's attn yet.................

[Twolanerider]

So they are loading the original software onto the stereo for the first time when they recieve it.  You would think the software would be loaded by HK when the stereo is manufactured.  If it is in the radio when they manufacture it then you would only need to perform the upgrade.  

Water, Roeder's Harley is loading a software revision on the radio.  I'm told it does come from manufacturing with a base software load.  There are specific revisions that must be loaded for the radio to integrate several of the Advanced Audio accessories available as well.  But in normal circumstances that's all the dealer would regularly load.  

The radio is (software) programmable as evidenced by the revision release currently on Harley's website.  What Roeder's is doing is simply yet another software revision.  This one, however, tweaks (or replaces) code to do whatever is necessary to make the radio play with the 98-05 year model bikes.

They could supply it on CD.  The choose not to.  From their perspective I understand why.  They are currently the only vendor with the product.  If they sold it to me I could burn a copy and send it to PJ and anyone else interested in doing the job.  The radio just reads and installs the software from the disk.  So there'd be no limit.  Until such a time as Harley itself does a consumer release of the same product Roeder's has the market to themself.  

Were I simply buying a software product from them I'd have reason to complain about what they're doing.  But they, in essence, gave me the software for free when I purchased the radio.  I only paid their standard (discounted) price for the radio.  No markup for the software load (parts or labor).  So I really can't complain about not being supplied a product I didn't actually pay for.

[pj57]

Twolane - thanks to your play by play installation instructions, I was able to install the '06 Radio today in a little over an hour.  I had removed the old radio, prewired the two taps and installed the XM antenna, so when the new unit arrived today it was a breeze.  Thanks again...XM works great, sound quality is good and the unit itself is pretty sweet.  Once Pez does his thing with the 2-ohm speakers and the in-line amp we'll have a hot set up. For now, I'm very satisfied with the new radio and the XM - give me lots to read up on.  Thanks again for your help, PJ

[Twolanerider]

That's great PJ.  Glad to read that Roeders got it turned around for you as quickly as they did.  It's nice to stumble upon a Harley shop that seems to get service right.  Was really glad to hear that they were fixing you up so you'd not have to just sit on the new radio until whenever Harley got around to making something available for us.
 
Like you I'm interested to find out more about Pez's new amp project too.  The overall volume now is ok.  And the clarity is great.  But if the whole thing was jacked up just a little bit more I might not ever get rid of this bike   .
 
So, what besides XM do you think you'll add to the mix now that you've got her working?

With both of our red bikes that makes the batting average on this little project 1000 so far.  We're 2 for 2!  Whose next?

[pj57]

Don - believe it or not, I'm toying with trying the CB install.  I ride with a lot of Ultra types and I sometimes feel left out of the conversations.  As you will recall, I'm going to get my inner fairing replaced from the damage caused by the neck cover - I'm also having the heated grips replaced with the supposed upgraded stealth heated grips.  Since the fairing is being disassembled and the handlebars rewired, that would be the perfect time to install the PTT switch on the left controls and the speaker switch on the console.  I don't want to replace the existing console with the Ultra console "pod" because it is shorter and a) doesn't look as sleek as what we've got on the SEEG and b) would require a new seat with a longer nose to mate up to the Ultra console.  So...I'd have to find an alternate mounting point for the microphone plug in.  Thought about the inner fairing, but that's too far a stretch.  Leaning more toward fabricating a small chrome mounting plate/plug underneath where the tank and seat meet.  This project is definitely in the planning only stage contingent on what Tom and the folks at at Roeders say about the wiring requirements. All those open and available terminals on that fat Ultra Overlay harness sure are tempting aren't they? If it's as easy as plug and play, then I'm there.  At that point I think the SEEG would definitely have the best of both worlds and like you said - would be a keeper for a long while. I'll keep you guys posted on any new developments - PJ

[Twolanerider]

PJ, that'd be a great time to do the work.  No doubt about that.  And like you I'd wondered about an alternative mounting to the jack rather than swapping out the dash.  Really need to get that in hand at some time and see what can be fabricated around it.  

Another thought I'd had was a little bracket akin to what JC did with his heated clothing plug.  It was on a picture here but that was likely pre-hack; so may not still be around.  If memory serves though was a smallish bracket that mounted to the frame beneath the seat.  So rather than dropping down in front of you the cord would drop down over your left leg and plug in down below the seat.  It'd still be out of the way of all your movements and really wouldn't be noticed much when it wasn't in use.

Anyway, I've been thinking about "options" too.  Just glad you got your going ok and was able to do so with so little extra hassle and as quickly as it did.  If you come up with any good ideas for mounting alternatives let me know and I'll do the same.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[pj57]

Twolane - that spot between the tank and seat seems to be the most ideal to mount the mike outlet. It's a spot that's easily accessible and close to the rider.  Also, I'm looking at selling the SEEG radio on Ebay.  From the service manual, it appears the speaker overlay (that we don't use anymore) is fairly easily removable.  It piggybacks on another harness that's located on the right side of the frame and goes directly to the fuse/battery area.  There's one ground wire and a power lead that is located at the "2A" fuse junction.  Based on the wiring schematic, those leads sole purpose is to power the SEEG radio (I'm assuming the amp+speakers).  So, in order for the radio to be sold, the new owner would need the overlay. If the SEEG overlay serves no other purpose, then I'll remove it to sell the old radio and clean up the clutter under the fairing.  Any thoughts?  I think I'll test the water by pulling the the fuse and seeing if it affects anything else - it shouldn't but sometimes I think maybe I'm pressing my luck a bit...  PJ  

[Twolanerider]

PJ,
I put one of those radio kits in before (our stock radio is a kit HD sells at part #76350-04).  It's been awhile but if memory serves correctly you're right about where that harness goes.  If it turns out to be a pain to pull you can order it by itself.  It'll carry part number 71004-04.

I'd planned on recovering some of the expense of the retrofit by selling the old radio as well.  Ended up getting $810.00 for the radio, the speakers that came on the bike stock and that harness you're talking about.  Told them specifically that if they're swapping out an existing radio they'll have everything they need.  If they're starting from scratch in a Standard, however, they'll need to come up with the bolts to hold the radio to the frame (we got an extra set of speaker screws with the new radio).

I didn't pull the harness from the bike though.  Wanted to leave it there "just in case."  I would have pulled it if I'd had to pay very much for a replacement to it.  But I'd picked one up on an overstock table at a dealer about six months ago for $20.  For that it wasn't worth raising the tank to get it out.

[pj57]

Don - thanks for the info on the harness.  After weighing the possibility of scratching my tank or screwing something else up, I decided to order one.  It's around $65.  Having the harness in place may prove to be a good switched power source in the future. Let's see if I'll be able to sell the entire setup radio, harness and speakers for a decent price to offset the cost of the new radio - PJ

[Twolanerider]

By the way Brian, did you decide yet if you're going to get one (new radio that is)?

[110tHunDer]

By the way, did you decide yet if you're going to get one (new radio that is)?

Not yet, but since my CD player $h!t the bed, it seems a no-brainer to switch out to the new unit versus replacing the existing one (even if I could get it covered under warranty).  If you have to pull it out anyway, why go back to the same thing is my thinking.

Just haven't decided how much I miss the CD player not working with the handlebar mounted MP3 player.  Plus, with the memory card style MP3, I can erase files and re-save new ones at will without going through a stack of CD-R's as my musical desires change.

So, still weighing my options. :-/

[Twolanerider]

PJ (and others), we may not be as fortunate as we'd hoped with Pez's new amp.  Got an email from him yesterday wherein he wrote that the new little inline amp wouldn't be a good option for the 06 radios.  Wouldn't specificaly say why.  But got the impression that mounting might be an issue.  It's also supposed to be a 24 watt 2 channel unit.  So if we ever added rear speakers to complete out the intercom system there would still be issues.

Y'know what though; I can't believe that someone somewhere doesn't make a small in-line amp that we could stuff in there somehow.  May have to do some research sometime.....

[pj57]

oh well, I'm still liking the new radio...a lot.  Is he still moving forward with the two ohm speakers?  PJ

[Twolanerider]

oh well, I'm still liking the new radio...a lot.  Is he still moving forward with the two ohm speakers?  PJ

Me too on the new radio.  Got a copy of the Advanced Audio section from an 06 owner's manual and learned a few more things about it.  The change was worth doing.  

Pez wrote that a product release should be by May.  That'll help us a bit more too.  Perhaps not a tremendous amount.  But every little bit helps.  And it's not like it really needs a lot.

[pezsez]

Hey 2 lane.

Its KILLIN me not to be able to say anything yet about the amp--but I promise it will all make sense. Mounting is not the issue--infact there is more room for an amp in my 06 than previous bikes!!

I do expect to have 2 ohm front speakers available in Feb/March 06, and of course it will be posted when its for sure

Thanks eh!--PEZ www.hogtunes.com

[hd-dude]

PJ (and others), we may not be as fortunate as we'd hoped with Pez's new amp.  Got an email from him yesterday wherein he wrote that the new little inline amp wouldn't be a good option for the 06 radios.  Wouldn't specificaly say why.  But got the impression that mounting might be an issue.  It's also supposed to be a 24 watt 2 channel unit.  So if we ever added rear speakers to complete out the intercom system there would still be issues.

Y'know what though; I can't believe that someone somewhere doesn't make a small in-line amp that we could stuff in there somehow.  May have to do some research sometime.....

Don;
Check this company out, They're pricy but it looks like a pretty good package:
www.hawg-wired.com they list applications for 06 bikes as well. They are a local company so if there's anything you want me to check out let me know.

[DEAN_NELSON]

Anyone know what the software update is going to do to the unit?

I was gong to download from H-D and load to the unit but I would like to know first what changes their will be to the unit.


Dean Nelson

[Twolanerider]

Anyone know what the software update is going to do to the unit?

I was gong to download from H-D and load to the unit but I would like to know first what changes their will be to the unit.


Dean Nelson

Dean, several have speculated that it was to help issues with the display.  However, that is only speculation as far as I've read.  No one actually knows and Harley's website doesn't say (far be it for them to admit need to correct something).

[Twolanerider]

Hey 2 lane.

Its KILLIN me not to be able to say anything yet about the amp--but I promise it will all make sense. Mounting is not the issue--infact there is more room for an amp in my 06 than previous bikes!!

I do expect to have 2 ohm front speakers available in Feb/March 06, and of course it will be posted when its for sure

Thanks eh!--PEZ www.hogtunes.com

Very sorry if I misinterpreted your email Pez.  When you'd written that it would mount on top of the radio, and I responded by asking if that would be a problem on 06 radios with the XM or other accessory options already on top of the radio, and you responded by saying 06 radios would be a problem I made the assumption that the occupied mounting area was in fact the problem.  Granted, you didn't say that.  It was just my inferrence from the flow of the conversation.

In any case looking forward to the speakers when you've got them ready to hit the street.  And we'll be waiting for any actual info whenever it can be provided.

[DEAN_NELSON]

Well......guess I will download it and try to do the install........than see is the thing still works!

I will try to do it tonight and let you know if I can tell anything.

Dean

[Twolanerider]

Don;
Check this company out, They're pricy but it looks like a pretty good package:
www.hawg-wired.com they list applications for 06 bikes as well. They are a local company so if there's anything you want me to check out let me know.

Thank you very much Jim.  If the company is at all represented by the look and feel of their website they must be on the ball.  The products look very professionally done and the details they're covering mean they have to have "been there and done that" and know what they're doing.  You're right on the "pricey" part, but it looks like slick stuff.

Did you notice that DIN mount front plate and bracket?  Whole lot neater than the chunky blocks and spacers that Biketronics offers.  And they've even covered details like a mount spacer for their amp to sit on 06 radios if there is only an XM or CB module but not both.  Something to just occupy the extra space so the new piece on top can set level.  Pretty slick (looking) stuff.

Definitly going to have to study it more closely when I can do more than just look at the pictures.  Thanks again!

[Twolanerider]

Well......guess I will download it and try to do the install........than see is the thing still works!

I will try to do it tonight and let you know if I can tell anything.

Dean

Dean, you might check to see if it's even necessary first.  Following those same install steps that Harley provides to load the software you'll also see a screen that shows the current revision number installed in your radio.  Have already heard or read of a couple of bikes that were new enough production that they hit the street with the new software load already installed.  

[DEAN_NELSON]

I looked last night and I have v6.8 as I got the bike new. I got the bike 9-20-06 and it was built 8-05.

I just did the download from H-D and than went to burn it to a CD, and nothing worked on my conputer!

When my caps lock was on , I got small letters, an if I turned the caps lock off I would get caps!

Than I changed over to the A-L Equipment side ( the work computer) and nothing would work......could not get any thing to go the computer was just "locked up"
So I just killed the power and turned it back on and all is fine, but I am not going to mess with the H-D file anymore.......

I might have done something wrong , but I sure don't know how that would be, it is just a download.......

Dean

[Twolanerider]

I looked last night and I have v6.8 as I got the bike new. I got the bike 9-20-06 and it was built 8-05.

I just did the download from H-D and than went to burn it to a CD, and nothing worked on my conputer!

When my caps lock was on , I got small letters, an if I turned the caps lock off I would get caps!

Than I changed over to the A-L Equipment side ( the work computer) and nothing would work......could not get any thing to go the computer was just "locked up"
So I just killed the power and turned it back on and all is fine, but I am not going to mess with the H-D file anymore.......

I might have done something wrong , but I sure don't know how that would be, it is just a download.......

Dean

Dean, if you really want to load it PM me your mailing address.  I'll put it on a disk and drop it to you in the mail.

Hey PJ, when this update came up again last night I got curious and went out to see what our radios had in it.  Whatever revision or change Roeder's is making is part of the latest software as it showed up at 7.8.  So whatever issue it corrects we should be good to go.

You almost have to wonder if the 7.8 revision by itself is what was necessary for the retrofit?  Of course no way to know without buying another radio and trying it straight out of the box.  And while I'm curious; I'm not that curious.  Likely not the case though.  After all, if it were ready to fly now Harley would already be marketing it.

[pj57]

Don, I got the same read too...Roeders seems to be on top of their game. PJ

[erniezap]

Anyone out there using the "hawg-wired" amp with the SEEG radio?  I'd like to hear some feedback before spending $500-600

[Twolanerider]

Anyone out there using the "hawg-wired" amp with the SEEG radio?  I'd like to hear some feedback before spending $500-600

Ernie, I've been looking at it for the last couple of days.  Because of the price was just wanting to do all the homework though.  Unless you've noticed something I have not it seems like a perfect, albeit expensive, solution to the audio deficiency problem.

The 06 radio is 40 watt RMS internal (20 per side).  The 04 and 05 radio is 60 watt.  The Hawg Wired unit is 75 watts per side and it's a class T full digital unit.  So there is no heat issue.

The outboard amp of course means it's not a cumulative total.  Your only amplification is the external amp because we're no longer loading the internal amp.  But still, 150 watts total should just about knock my wide butt off the saddle.  The 75 watt per side spec is for 4 ohm speakers.  If you were using 2 ohm it'd be up somewhere north of 125.  But there'll be a problem there.  According to their spec's the amp is only stable to about 70-75 watts.  In that range distortion is .005%.  And that is, effectively, no distortion.  But above 110 watts or so it jumps to 10% or higher; and that means your previously clear water is suddenly all milky.

Given those specs and the effect that even 75 watts per side will do I'd just stay with the HogTunes standard 4 ohm speakers and not even worry about the new 2 ohm when they come out if I were an 06 rider.  For anyone else you'd just want the good set of 4 ohm speakers you likely have already upgraded to (since our stock speakers were such total crap).  

The installation looks straighforward too.  Everything lives inside the fairing except for one heavier gauge power feed to the amp's power unit.  That feed comes straight from the battery (it takes a second switched power feed from the cig ligher source to actually turn the unit on and off).  Since it's a digital unit the total draw from the battery is very light too.  No worry about overloading the charging the system like we might with a "normal" car audio amp.

I'm actually going to order their setup on Monday.  Have been swapping emails nailing down spec's with someone there for a couple of days and it seems an ideal solution that is actually specifically designed for our bikes and well designed to boot.  The proof of the pudding will of course always be in the eating.  But they have designed harnesses made for our applications.  They've got bracketry that is actually designed to mount the bits inside our fairings.  And they've got an amp system that (if it meets its specs) should give us sound we can't generate road noise to get past.

On top of all that the main parts are red.  The perfect color for an SE Electra Glide.

[h2oski]

Twolanerider,
I have been looking for an amp for my bike for a few months now and hadn't come across anything in my internet searching.  This amp setup is exactly what I have been looking for.  I am running JL Audio VR525 CXI speakers in my bike now and they are crystal clear to full volume, but they are still a little hard to hear when I am blasting down the interstate.  If I could boost the power up from the stock radio I think they would be perfect.  

Did you order the amp from Hawg Wired?  I spent a couple of days looking through the website and am seriously considering getting it.  I will probably be waiting till spring to do it.  Let us know what you think once you get it installed.

Later

h2oski

[Twolanerider]

Twolanerider,
I have been looking for an amp for my bike for a few months now and hadn't come across anything in my internet searching.  This amp setup is exactly what I have been looking for.  I am running JL Audio VR525 CXI speakers in my bike now and they are crystal clear to full volume, but they are still a little hard to hear when I am blasting down the interstate.  If I could boost the power up from the stock radio I think they would be perfect.  

Did you order the amp from Hawg Wired?  I spent a couple of days looking through the website and am seriously considering getting it.  I will probably be waiting till spring to do it.  Let us know what you think once you get it installed.

Later

h2oski

Water,
I did order the amp.  Swapped a bunch of emails with a very helpful rep there named Paul.  Even when I was choosing to be purposefully dumb (as opposed to normally dumb) to make sure I was getting answers out of the company they were just very helpful.  The spec's on the unit seem great for our applications.  That it's actually engineered to mount in our applications is what makes it ideal.

Ernie on the site here is also interested.  I broached the topic of a group purchase for some discount with the supplier but haven't gotten an answer back yet.  Was hoping my order would sort of lead the pack on a prospective group.  In any case I guess I can be the guinea pig for installation.

Should have the parts in hand here tomorrow or Friday.  Plan on installing Saturday.  Will let you know how it goes and if ti works as well as anticipated.  Will also post here any response for interested parties that they give on a group purchase discount.

[Scooterman]

I did remember it was there (when I saw it on the new radio).  And had even fiddled with it once when I found it by accident.  When you do this one of the things you'll like is that a lot of system control is now much more easily and logically found.  It's a pretty cool radio actually.

Tom at Roeder's called me (unsolicited) yesterday to say that he had photocopied all the Advanced Audio section from an 06 bike's owner's manual and was mailing it to me.  Am wondering what's in there that I just haven't found yet.

Is there any way that you could scan those pages and email them to me so I can create a .pdf file.  I wonder if there would be a problem with me making this .pdf available to everyone on the forum.
My Email Address:
np77445-scooterman@yahoo.com

[Twolanerider]

SM, sorry; but no scanner right now.  It died.

[Twolanerider]

A couple of guys earlier in this thread and a couple more in PM had expressed interest in the Hawg Wired amplifier kit.  Kit and its installation are here:

http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1131935924/0

[w4ptt]

After reading this post from last year of several guys installing the HK radio in there CVOs with success I decided to buy an HK radio and put it in my 2005 EGlide. It plugged in fine, plays FM/CD and the hand controls work but every few seconds it beeps several times. I took it to the dealer and they could not see a radio hooked up with the digital technician. I spoke with Tom at Roeders and he said they quit doing the mods because of screens going out. I later found out this was an issue for everyone including the new bikes that a software upgrade later fixed. I assume I will need a doner bike of an 06/07 ECM and then stick it back in my bike. Does anyone know a solution? I dont care about any of the other features, just want the beeping to go away.

[Twolanerider]

After reading this post from last year of several guys installing the HK radio in there CVOs with success I decided to buy an HK radio and put it in my 2005 EGlide. It plugged in fine, plays FM/CD and the hand controls work but every few seconds it beeps several times. I took it to the dealer and they could not see a radio hooked up with the digital technician. I spoke with Tom at Roeders and he said they quit doing the mods because of screens going out. I later found out this was an issue for everyone including the new bikes that a software upgrade later fixed. I assume I will need a doner bike of an 06/07 ECM and then stick it back in my bike. Does anyone know a solution? I dont care about any of the other features, just want the beeping to go away.

The screens weren't really the issue.  Or at least not the most difficult to manage part of it.  

As you've already seen the Harmon Kardon radios will bolt right in to our bikes.  Harnesses connect.  Sounds plays (assuming you swap to the correct speaker plugs in the stock harness).  All is good with the world.

Except for the noise.

That's actually a software issue in the radio's base firmware.  Not the section of the radio updated by the regular firmware updates available from the Advanced Audio website. But another firmware code in the radio.  That's the software that makes the radios ostensibly incompatible with the earlier model bikes.  

[pj57]

Don - since my install of the HK system, I have not had any problems.  I think I've done one software upgrade, but left it alone after that since the radio worked just fine.  This is the first I've heard of others doing the retrofit experiencing "beeping."  I installed the CB (minor wiring + dash speaker switch) and GPS (plug-in) modules and they work just fine.  I just bought a blue tooth off of Ebay really cheap, so I suppose that will be my winter project.  I know I'm going to be screwed if the radio ever goes belly-up since Roeders isn't downloading whatever base operating software they used to make HK compatible with old wiring...yikes - PJ

[hogasm]

pj57

Did you take any pisc of installing the CB [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

My winter project is this install with a few others [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[pj57]

Hogasm - sorry I didnt take any pics.  Here's what you'll need to complete the install: 77173-06 Switch Kit which will include the replacement switches for the handlebar controls (PTT, etc) and the dash mounted speaker switch (which will require some minor solder connections); 77136-03 Console Pod Assembly (primarily for the cable that links the plug in CB mike to the HK central wiring harness under the fairing and a CB antenna.  Since the SEEG's Tour Pak is only drilled for one antenna (for the radio) you'll have to either a) drill a hole for the CB antenna on the other side of the tour pak or b) use a hidden radio antenna of some sort (inexpensive Tune Trapper has worked well for me and others) and use the exisiting hole in the tour pak for the CB antenna (it's an exact fit for the CB antenna swap by the way).  I'll copy the necessary pages out of the Touring Model Service manual for the speaker wiring connections as it is universal for all models.  The install was tedious, but not rediculous.  Rewiring the handlebars is never fun.  Also I fabricated my existing chrome tank console to accept the micorphone plug (drilled hole on the left side of the console).  My bike is in the shop right now otherwise I'd go out and shoot some pics.  PM me if you have any questions as you're moving forward with the project.  Regards, PJ

[Twolanerider]

Don - since my install of the HK system, I have not had any problems.  I think I've done one software upgrade, but left it alone after that since the radio worked just fine.  This is the first I've heard of others doing the retrofit experiencing "beeping."  I installed the CB (minor wiring + dash speaker switch) and GPS (plug-in) modules and they work just fine.  I just bought a blue tooth off of Ebay really cheap, so I suppose that will be my winter project.  I know I'm going to be screwed if the radio ever goes belly-up since Roeders isn't downloading whatever base operating software they used to make HK compatible with old wiring...yikes - PJ

PJ, the beeping (or however you describe it) is the sound you would have had to begin with if you'd plugged in the stock speaker wires instead of the wires from the amplified harness.  But when you're radio went to Roeder's that software load fixed all our problems.

You went ahead and then did a lot more with your system than I ever chose to do.  So if a radio goes down you're in even deeper than I am.  If that ever happens though give me a shout.  Our first option is simply getting our radio repaired.  So long as that base firmware module (or more accurately the board it's on) doesn't have to be replaced we're still good to go.

If we lose that, however, I've got a duplicate of that original program that would work with our original revision.  So if we got an original OE replacement we could still make it work (ours are the same vintage).  Worst case is hacking one from scratch.  Having see how Roeder's did I did it one time later.  Took me a LONG time.  Would not look forward to doing it again.  And on a new upgrade would look at the Sony swap instead.  But it's the last ditch option should we ever need to.

[Twolanerider]

pj57

Did you take any pisc of installing the CB [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

My winter project is this install with a few others [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Brian, don't start buying a bunch of parts for this until you are sure you can get a radio that has been revised to work with the older bikes.

[crshnbrn]

w4ptt,

Have you gotten your beeping issue resolved?

[h2oski]

Brian, don't start buying a bunch of parts for this until you are sure you can get a radio that has been revised to work with the older bikes.

Twolanerider,
So does that mean that Roeders does not sell the Harmon Kardon Radio for older bikes anymore?  I just pulled my old radio out to add a second aux in when I thought I might just rather upgrade to the Harmon Kardon.  I would really like to play mp3 cds instead of my iPod hooked into an aux port. 

Thanks

h2oski

[Twolanerider]

Water, last I spoke with anyone there they were not.  And after hacking the software the last time and seeing the radios change again and again I'd have no desire to create that bit of code all over again.  Quite a pain in the rear actually.  Thank god mine works so well.  Would not relish having to write that again for another radio.

[VRODDAVE]

Hello Everybody ...   with the help of Twolanerider (I followed his instructions) I have successfully completed the install of the 07 Harmon Kardon, with Navigation and XM radio, into my 04 FLHTCSE.  I must say that these instructions made it a pretty simple install.   I have a few items to report out that I think need to be posted for others that do this. 

NOW the one caviate, I am unsure if its relivant or not, is that I do not have stock ECM.  I run the ThunderMAX closed loop.  I have been told that it makes no difference. but for what ever its worth,  here is the additional info...   

AVC - Automatic volume control works on my bike with the harmon kardon.  I located speed sense pin 9 (W/GN) on my original radio main plug, and traced the wire back in the harness to a location near the TAC in the dash,  CUT the wire, and connected it to Databus (LGN/V) wire on the TAC, so databus is going to the radio, and it works just fine.  I like it so much better with the AVC working.

NAVIGATION - NAV will not work properly without the AVC connected. (It looks like its working, but its not) AVC MUST be connected to the H/K and functional.

CALIBRATION - My radio was removed from an 07, and installed without any BEEPing issues that have been reported in other posts.  It was already calibrated in the previous bike. Apparently, if you have a new or referbished radio, you can install it in a 06 or above bike,  have the dealer calibrate it, and then install it in eariler models without any issues. 

I hope this information is usfull.

Thanks again for a great install procedure.
I hope it was ok to post my followup in Twolaneriders procedure.

[SE-Randy]

So it IS possible?!!!! That is the only thing missing on my SEEG2. I have been wanting to do this before I even picked up my bike. Can you PM the instructions you followed. I had talked to Don about this, but he had discouraged me from trying.

[Twolanerider]

So it IS possible?!!!! That is the only thing missing on my SEEG2. I have been wanting to do this before I even picked up my bike. Can you PM the instructions you followed. I had talked to Don about this, but he had discouraged me from trying.

Randy, it's still an expensive proposition.  The only option is both considerably cheaper and a quicker install.  But with the tweaks David has worked through the HK option is at least potentially do-able again.

[flhse]

I have added the H-K radio to my 04 with the amp, blue tooth module, cb, intercom and rear speakers.  The only thing I didn't want was the XM since I want to use it in Zumo.    I don't have any issues with any of its functions. 

The biggest issue is wiring, so much wire, hard to fit it into the fairing. 

Brad

 

[SE-Randy]

Randy, it's still an expensive proposition.  The only option is both considerably cheaper and a quicker install.  But with the tweaks David has worked through the HK option is at least potentially do-able again.

The end result I want is radio, satellite radio and intercom. I don't care about the CB, it would be nice but not as importat as the rest. None of the aftermaket solutions I have seen address the intercom. I ride 2up 75-80 of the time and having come from Ultra's love the intercom. The bluetooth head sets are cheap enough, but had rather listen to music with headsets and not over speakers. I have added a Sirius to my existing setup and it works fine except I have to remove the head unit when I park and it's not waterproof. Maybe I am going after this the wrong way. Maybe I shouldn't be so picky.  Thoughts any/eveyrone?

[flhse]

You basically want the same thing as I did with the exception of the CB.  Most of the parts I picked up on e-bay, a number of dealers were getting rid of old inventory and I had some help with the radio so It would work. I do like the set up I have now over the old Radio Sound package. 

An issue I had was where to mount the rider headset connection.  I didn't look long enough to see if HD had a console that would fit the 04/05 that had access for the plug. 

Brad

[84badboy]

So, first of all thanks to Twolanerider and everyone else for posting here.   Good info & discussion.

I've got a 2004 Ultra Classic with a Sony radio and Hogwired interface.   The original stereo was replaced before I got the bike.   I'm not that happy with it.   I'm thinking of converting to a Harley H-K radio, one from a 2011 Road Glide.   It's got everything plus lifetime XM.   None of us had ever heard about having to get the newer radios recalibrated.   Am I gonna run into more or less of the same issues.   General thoughts?

I will probably be copying out this discussion and downloading Twolanerider's photos into a guide for me.

thanks anyone and everyone.

    

[Wrongway]

Keep me in mind when your ready to part with the Hawg Wired interface and possibly the stereo, I want to upgrade my Cherry. Thanks, Dave

[Twolanerider]

So, first of all thanks to Twolanerider and everyone else for posting here.   Good info & discussion.

I've got a 2004 Ultra Classic with a Sony radio and Hogwired interface.   The original stereo was replaced before I got the bike.   I'm not that happy with it.   I'm thinking of converting to a Harley H-K radio, one from a 2011 Road Glide.   It's got everything plus lifetime XM.   None of us had ever heard about having to get the newer radios recalibrated.   Am I gonna run into more or less of the same issues.   General thoughts?

I will probably be copying out this discussion and downloading Twolanerider's photos into a guide for me.

thanks anyone and everyone.

    

Since your radio was already activated for another bike you won't have to do anything extra.  Install it and go.