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CVO Social => Other Topics => Topic started by: smkymtnboy on July 17, 2016, 08:59:52 PM
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after a few years on the road now are the indians reliable? i do not know any indian owners or visit the website or forums. anyone know if the indian brand has the same problems many of us have on the 110 cvos? not bashing either brand just curious.
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Friend has one and love it.
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We had company from Canada this past week and he wanted to see the new Scout. While at the K'ville Indian dealer, I was shootin' the bull with one of the sales guys while Buzz was looking at the bikes. According to him, Indian has the same warranty as the MoCo in 2 years unlimited mileage. There was a difference in the extended warranty path, however. As we all know, the MoCo doesn't offer an extended factory warranty. We have the option of ESP but it isn't an extension of the factory as it's though a third party.
Indian (Polaris) offers up to 5 additional years through Indian to extend their factory warranty up to 7 years.
In my opinion, that says volumes when it comes to reliability today and the future. The MoCo would be up to their neck in claims so put it off on another company to take care of the "corrections". Indian/Polaris feels confident enough to warranty their product in-house. I realize this also gets them direct access to any long term issues for corrective action but they are on a much better path than the one Harley is taking.
One more thing, I wasn't aware of this but Polaris put the new Indian 111 through 1 billion revolutions before it ever became operational. After it did, they put 1 million actual miles on the new motor before it came to production. Interesting information.
Oh, the new 111 puts out 119 lb/ft of torque right out of the box (news to me, too). With the way Polaris designed the motor, they can change out the cams in about 2 hours. The stage 2 (free flow air filter, exhaust and cam change) runs about $2,300 bucks (that includes labor) and bumps hp 10% and torque 8% (it sounds wicked to boot). I wasn't given hp figures for the 111 but the 8% torque bump puts it at 128 lb/ft. How much would we spend to get our 110's to that level?
The Scout 60 puts out 78 hp and the Scout (69 cubic inch) puts out 100 right out of the box. They both make either Street and either Sportster look extremely wimpy.
Yes, I was impressed with the new Indians once I delved into the finer points.
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We have three of them and they are performing well. The oldest one is 2015 Vintage that is about to turn 15K with no real issues. Of course they have had a service bulletin or two like re-flash ECU for better fuel burn and a brake mod but not really any different than my ownership experience with HD.
My wife's 2016 Chieftain has over 5K and she loves it. She actually prefers it over the 2015 SGS, if you press her into saying something. The latest one is owned by my 21 daughter and is a Scout 60. Other than the little hard seat she likes it, but what does she know it's her first bike. :D
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Haird good to see you again on the forum. I have the stage two factory stuff on the bike and it does cost a plenty and sounds great but don't let those numbers fool you. As all the companies give you numbers that may be measure at the crank so when you get you bike measured on a dyno you will see lower numbers. My stage two flashed bike was measured on the dyno to make 106tq/81hp at the wheel. When you buy the pipes, air cleaner and cams they each have a factory tune that is downloaded to the ECU to accommodate for the new parts and that is part of the price.
I have a 120tq bike in the CVO Fatbob and I know that the Indian does not equal that number. The 110 HD motor does need the hc piston upgrade kit to get those numbers. Regardless of the numbers the TS 111 is a very nice power plant and makes wonderful low end torque that turns these into fantastic cruisers. They are very smooth in all regards.
I actually have had less issues with these new Indians than i had with the Harleys. All nice machines however.
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We had company from Canada this past week and he wanted to see the new Scout. While at the K'ville Indian dealer, I was shootin' the bull with one of the sales guys while Buzz was looking at the bikes. According to him, Indian has the same warranty as the MoCo in 2 years unlimited mileage. There was a difference in the extended warranty path, however. As we all know, the MoCo doesn't offer an extended factory warranty. We have the option of ESP but it isn't an extension of the factory as it's though a third party.
Indian (Polaris) offers up to 5 additional years through Indian to extend their factory warranty up to 7 years.
In my opinion, that says volumes when it comes to reliability today and the future. The MoCo would be up to their neck in claims so put it off on another company to take care of the "corrections". Indian/Polaris feels confident enough to warranty their product in-house. I realize this also gets them direct access to any long term issues for corrective action but they are on a much better path than the one Harley is taking.
One more thing, I wasn't aware of this but Polaris put the new Indian 111 through 1 billion revolutions before it ever became operational. After it did, they put 1 million actual miles on the new motor before it came to production. Interesting information.
Oh, the new 111 puts out 119 lb/ft of torque right out of the box (news to me, too). With the way Polaris designed the motor, they can change out the cams in about 2 hours. The stage 2 (free flow air filter, exhaust and cam change) runs about $2,300 bucks (that includes labor) and bumps hp 10% and torque 8% (it sounds wicked to boot). I wasn't given hp figures for the 111 but the 8% torque bump puts it at 128 lb/ft. How much would we spend to get our 110's to that level?
The Scout 60 puts out 78 hp and the Scout (69 cubic inch) puts out 100 right out of the box. They both make either Street and either Sportster look extremely wimpy.
Yes, I was impressed with the new Indians once I delved into the finer points.
FORD also did the million miles on their 6.4 motor.. We all know how that worked out! I have a friend who tunes the Indians & those numbers are off quite a bit from what he's seeing on a dyno...
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I have two friends with Indians and both are very happy, One of them traded his 07 bagger that the dealer installed the 110 kit and had all kind of issues. Traded it for a Victory and still riding it with 140 thousand miles, gas and oil and tires only. He still rides it when he isn't riding his Roadmaster. He is another that rode nothing but HD until the 110.
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FORD also did the million miles on their 6.4 motor.. We all know how that worked out! I have a friend who tunes the Indians & those numbers are off quite a bit from what he's seeing on a dyno...
I think all the manufacturers use numbers generated at the crankshaft (gross power ratings), including H-D.
As for the million miles thing, lots of companies have done that and still didn't expose major issues. Your Ford example is but one of many. Harley made a big deal about all the road testing they did on the Twin Cam, and those had cam bearing issues in customers hands right out of the box. The disparity has to do with how the tests are designed and how well that test design actually replicates real world conditions, and also often involves changes in production parts after the testing was performed. I'm never too impressed when anyone claims they did X million miles of testing.
Jerry
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We had company from Canada this past week and he wanted to see the new Scout. While at the K'ville Indian dealer, I was shootin' the bull with one of the sales guys while Buzz was looking at the bikes. According to him, Indian has the same warranty as the MoCo in 2 years unlimited mileage. There was a difference in the extended warranty path, however. As we all know, the MoCo doesn't offer an extended factory warranty. We have the option of ESP but it isn't an extension of the factory as it's though a third party.
Indian (Polaris) offers up to 5 additional years through Indian to extend their factory warranty up to 7 years.
In my opinion, that says volumes when it comes to reliability today and the future. The MoCo would be up to their neck in claims so put it off on another company to take care of the "corrections". Indian/Polaris feels confident enough to warranty their product in-house. I realize this also gets them direct access to any long term issues for corrective action but they are on a much better path than the one Harley is taking.
One more thing, I wasn't aware of this but Polaris put the new Indian 111 through 1 billion revolutions before it ever became operational. After it did, they put 1 million actual miles on the new motor before it came to production. Interesting information.
Oh, the new 111 puts out 119 lb/ft of torque right out of the box (news to me, too). With the way Polaris designed the motor, they can change out the cams in about 2 hours. The stage 2 (free flow air filter, exhaust and cam change) runs about $2,300 bucks (that includes labor) and bumps hp 10% and torque 8% (it sounds wicked to boot). I wasn't given hp figures for the 111 but the 8% torque bump puts it at 128 lb/ft. How much would we spend to get our 110's to that level?
The Scout 60 puts out 78 hp and the Scout (69 cubic inch) puts out 100 right out of the box. They both make either Street and either Sportster look extremely wimpy.
Yes, I was impressed with the new Indians once I delved into the finer points.
Just a FYI, all vehicle factory extended warranties are ESP's.
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Should have compared the Scout to the V Rod as they have a similar engine architecture.
Here's the lowdown on the Scout vs Sporty dyno though, the numbers aren't quite as far off as previously mentioned, but they are entirely different beasts.
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We had company from Canada this past week and he wanted to see the new Scout. While at the K'ville Indian dealer, I was shootin' the bull with one of the sales guys while Buzz was looking at the bikes. According to him, Indian has the same warranty as the MoCo in 2 years unlimited mileage. There was a difference in the extended warranty path, however. As we all know, the MoCo doesn't offer an extended factory warranty. We have the option of ESP but it isn't an extension of the factory as it's though a third party.
Indian (Polaris) offers up to 5 additional years through Indian to extend their factory warranty up to 7 years.
In my opinion, that says volumes when it comes to reliability today and the future. The MoCo would be up to their neck in claims so put it off on another company to take care of the "corrections". Indian/Polaris feels confident enough to warranty their product in-house. I realize this also gets them direct access to any long term issues for corrective action but they are on a much better path than the one Harley is taking.
One more thing, I wasn't aware of this but Polaris put the new Indian 111 through 1 billion revolutions before it ever became operational. After it did, they put 1 million actual miles on the new motor before it came to production. Interesting information.
Oh, the new 111 puts out 119 lb/ft of torque right out of the box (news to me, too). With the way Polaris designed the motor, they can change out the cams in about 2 hours. The stage 2 (free flow air filter, exhaust and cam change) runs about $2,300 bucks (that includes labor) and bumps hp 10% and torque 8% (it sounds wicked to boot). I wasn't given hp figures for the 111 but the 8% torque bump puts it at 128 lb/ft. How much would we spend to get our 110's to that level?
The Scout 60 puts out 78 hp and the Scout (69 cubic inch) puts out 100 right out of the box. They both make either Street and either Sportster look extremely wimpy.
Yes, I was impressed with the new Indians once I delved into the finer points.
Not buying one---not falling for everything I'm told---wasn't born last night---just responding to the original question on reliability and added some interesting conversation.
Dang it guys, y'all are all sounding like cvodon.... :huepfenlol2:
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I like the idea of one up until I start really looking at them. They just don't do it for me, so far.
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I like the idea of one up until I start really looking at them. They just don't do it for me, so far.
I did a extended test ride for (2) days & the bikes well balanced, has tons of tq but no actual hp imo. I'm much like you as I cant get past that fairing at all!
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I did a extended test ride for (2) days & the bikes well balanced, has tons of tq but no actual hp imo. I'm much like you as I cant get past that fairing at all!
Fairing reminds me of a bowling shoe. It's functional but ugly as sin. If they got rid of the big honking 1950s looking Buick bumper chrome addition, it would be an improvement. Then restyle the lines and the bike would probably be better.
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Just a FYI, all vehicle factory extended warranties are ESP's.
Not really. A true factory extended warranty exists, but it is usually limited to specific parts and failure modes that the "factory" has identified as having a higher than normal failure rate and they wish to assure customers they will stand behind the issue for X miles or X amount of time. A Harley version occurred back in 2000/2001 when they issued an extension of the factory warranty on the Twin Cam cam bearings. I've seen several over the years in the auto business while with FoMoCo.
The Extended Service Plans are a different beast, and are basically like an insurance policy. No matter who ultimately pays, an outside company like CNA or the "factory" in the case of the example about Polaris, they are something the customer buys and those customer payments form the pool of money that pays for repairs (assuming the price for the plans was set high enough to cover the repairs).
The easiest way to keep it straight is to remember a true factory warranty extension doesn't cost the customer anything, as opposed to an ESP that requires you pay for it up front.
Jerry
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Um...
Late-Model Indian Motorcycles Recalled For Fire Risk Due To Excessive Exhaust Temperature. (http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2016/07/19/late-model-indian-motorcycles-recalled-for-fire-risk-due-to-excessive-exhaust-temperature/)
:oops:
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Um...
Late-Model Indian Motorcycles Recalled For Fire Risk Due To Excessive Exhaust Temperature. (http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2016/07/19/late-model-indian-motorcycles-recalled-for-fire-risk-due-to-excessive-exhaust-temperature/)
:oops:
Remarketed as a cigar lighter option?? :nixweiss: :o
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Um...
Late-Model Indian Motorcycles Recalled For Fire Risk Due To Excessive Exhaust Temperature. (http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2016/07/19/late-model-indian-motorcycles-recalled-for-fire-risk-due-to-excessive-exhaust-temperature/)
:oops:
A recall over excessive heat? Has the NTSB ever tested a stock 110? Talk about excessive heat. The Indian must spontaneously combust.... ;D
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"In the event of an engine misfire, unburned fuel may pass through parts of the exhaust system, raising the exhaust temperatures."
Duh! That's what happens with any vehicle with a catalyst in the exhaust system. What are they trying to say, that Indian purposely had a misfire programmed into the ECM, and they will download a new calibration file to remove it? Have to love the lack of detail in most of these reports.
I've seen people set cars on fire by running the engine with a severe misfire. The cat will rapidly turn cherry red and eventually the internal honeycomb material will melt into a big lump.
Jerry
Here's the details for those interested.
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I have a 2016 Roadmaster. Reliable, no real problems, good suspension, easy maintenance, very comfortable, added free-flowing air cleaner and slip-ons...really opened up the power (then added Stage II cams, which really added some zoom). Well balanced and even though heavier, feels lighter than my SESG. Engine seems bulletproof. Overall, it seems well built and thought-out. As far as the looks - it's an acquired taste. Initially, I didn't like the look either. However, I soon realized I had become institutionalized as to what a MC should look like, since there had been nothing else to choose from for the last couple of decades.
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I have a 2016 Roadmaster. Reliable, no real problems, good suspension, easy maintenance, very comfortable, added free-flowing air cleaner and slip-ons...really opened up the power (then added Stage II cams, which really added some zoom). Well balanced and even though heavier, feels lighter than my SESG. Engine seems bulletproof. Overall, it seems well built and thought-out. As far as the looks - it's an acquired taste. Initially, I didn't like the look either. However, I soon realized I had become institutionalized as to what a MC should look like, since there had been nothing else to choose from for the last couple of decades.
very nice bike! keep us updated on how you like it.
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I have a 2016 Roadmaster. Reliable, no real problems, good suspension, easy maintenance, very comfortable, added free-flowing air cleaner and slip-ons...really opened up the power (then added Stage II cams, which really added some zoom). Well balanced and even though heavier, feels lighter than my SESG. Engine seems bulletproof. Overall, it seems well built and thought-out. As far as the looks - it's an acquired taste. Initially, I didn't like the look either. However, I soon realized I had become institutionalized as to what a MC should look like, since there had been nothing else to choose from for the last couple of decades.
I have considered trading my 2014 CVO Limited for a Roadmaster but I am waiting for a year or two to recuperate from buying these other two Indians. I have stage two on my Vintage and it will out run a stage one 103 SGS. Honestly I have had more reliability issues with the Harleys than the Indians.
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I did a extended test ride for (2) days & the bikes well balanced, has tons of tq but no actual hp imo. I'm much like you as I cant get past that fairing at all!
Comparatively speaking the the Harley does produce more total HP at higher rpm and the Indian has more low end tq.
As to the cosmetic appeal I think Harley makes some ugly bikes also. For years I hated the fairing look and it was made worse by all the saddle bags and then a huge trunk(tourpak) hanging off the back. Talk about an old geezer conglomeration!!!! Now I own one and like it. ???
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The 2017 Indian Chieftain in thunder black pearl, paint job is impressive. MSRP 24k
TN
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At sturgis this year I watched a brand new victory gunner (I think? Looked like a street glide) melt down the engine on the street in front of me in Deadwood. Still had the license applied for tags, I asked the guy to confirm it was new, he said yep and angrily laughed. Appeared to have melted a piston. Anomaly I'm sure, but still a failure.
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At sturgis this year I watched a brand new victory gunner (I think? Looked like a street glide) melt down the engine on the street in front of me in Deadwood. Still had the license applied for tags, I asked the guy to confirm it was new, he said yep and angrily laughed. Appeared to have melted a piston. Anomaly I'm sure, but still a failure.
That settles it, I'm not going back to Sturgis. Too many engine failures.
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Our American Legion Rider President bought one and it NICE, I just can't get past the skirted front fender? I know it's nostalgic, but like everything else about it, especially the adjustable windshield. JC
The 2017 Indian Chieftain in thunder black pearl, paint job is impressive. MSRP 24k
TN
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I have a 2016 Roadmaster. Reliable, no real problems, good suspension, easy maintenance, very comfortable, added free-flowing air cleaner and slip-ons...really opened up the power (then added Stage II cams, which really added some zoom). Well balanced and even though heavier, feels lighter than my SESG. Engine seems bulletproof. Overall, it seems well built and thought-out. As far as the looks - it's an acquired taste. Initially, I didn't like the look either. However, I soon realized I had become institutionalized as to what a MC should look like, since there had been nothing else to choose from for the last couple of decades.
After 12 days driving a 2016 Roadmaster (with 9k) thru BC (Sea to Sky-HyW)
I fully agree with Mark on
-) reliable
-) better suspension (stock) compared until 2016 models
-) well balanced, feels lighter than my RoadGlide
-) the heat is the same on the back cylinder
RESULT: well done
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I hear that single shock on the back feels like forever travel and very comfy.
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I traded the CVO Limited away for the new 2017 RM. We now have four of them.
25'000 miles total in a year and a half, for the lot of them, and not issues or spontaneous combustion.