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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: r0de_runr on August 19, 2017, 08:44:18 AM
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2012 FLHXSE3, ~38,000 miles
Rode from near Kerrville over to Bandera for a lunch date. No issues. Left Bandera to go back to Kerrville and a few miles from Bandera it just lost power. I was going about 60-65 in 6th gear (picking my teeth with a toothpick) and the power just fell away. I gave it more gas but nothing. No vibration, no shudder, no mechanical noises.
It has 38,000 and change miles on it. Had a professional valve job with new guides and AV&V Beehive springs and an .030 head gasket done at 23,500, and I put in new 850-1 lifters at that time. This valve job was done by a respected shop. I put Rocker Lockers in myself at about 30,000 miles.
Yesterday when it quit I checked fuzes, spark (had none in rear, didn't check the front). Borrowed a compression gauge, had zero needle movement in rear cyl, front pumped up to near 200 somewhere I didn't try to get max. Checked rear again nothing. Removed compression gauge and put my thumb over the hole, no pressure and very little vacuum.
I took off the tank and the rear valve cover. I inspected the head gasket area and saw no issues, grabbed the rear auto comp release and it seemed tight, no wiggle, no loose connector.
Under the valve cover with a really bright flashlight I looked around the rockers. No loose bolts, springs looked intact, engine turned over and the rockers did their thing and the springs seemed to me to be moving through a full opening and closing. No loose shrapnel to be seen. As I turned it over there was a very distinct whoosh of air coming up the push rod tubes.
So I popped open the push rod tubes and visually observed the SE Tapered Adjustable Push-rods for both ex and int. I've installed these in three different bikes, and in this bike twice with new lifters. They were tight. I could turn them with my fingers but it was with great effort. They had no play in them. Visually down into the lifter bay with a light, saw nothing out of the normal.
Turned it over and observed the push-rods move up and down.
During this I'm not hearing anything unusual, just a bike that won't start.
So I cussed a bit, got me a cold bottle of water as I was doing this outside at 2 or 3 PM in August in Texas in an RV Park in the gravel under an awning.
Put the valve cover back on, then the tank, then put it in the trailer. I'll take it to Javelina HD in Boerne where I bought it.
I can do cams and lifters and clutches and compensators and rocker lockers, but I've never cracked open a head.
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0 compression, I'm guessing they're not going to have good news. Sounds like a hole in the piston, but could be a few things.
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If it is all back togeather, remove the power lead to the coils, oil dip stick out and in neutral, crank the engine over to see what amount of air pressure comes out.
We do this on automotive engines using a vacume / pressure gauge.
If you have a hole in the piston, you will have lots of air coming out.
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If you have no spark and no compression on the rear cylinder, that sounds like EITMS doing it's thing, and its malfunctioning.
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Another thing you could try doing pull the spark plug out of that cylinder and the Piston at top dead center valves closed, Force air into the spark plug hole to see where it comes out, this way you can check for exhaust valve, the intake valve as well as the compression relief to see if it's stuck open.
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It can only be one of 3 things - a valve not closing, a hole in the piston, or compression release stuck open.
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i got money on bent valve, sorry
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Shamrock Cycles in Round Rock has it. He'll fix it.
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Ok,
Broken rear exhaust spring and bent ex valve.
These are AV&V springs installed less than two years and 15,000 miles ago.
Lots of carbon build up, some oil in intake runners.
Will no more once the other head comes off.
Prognosis is take it to 113ci with WFO Larry doing the heads.
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:-\ bummer
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This is why I quit using those beehives.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Broken BEEHIVES = more common than reported. No 1 brand better than the other. When they break the s**t hits the fan. :(
John
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We pulled the beehives out of my 2011 SESG top end and one of the springs looked like the leaning tower of Pisa. Not saying all of them do it, but with larger lift cams in my case a 640 - I have to believe its a bi-product. The other problem we found was that the seat pressures were vastly different, up to 15lbs. These are the reasons that we are going to put in the conicals on the rebuild.
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Ok,
Broken rear exhaust spring and bent ex valve.
These are AV&V springs installed less than two years and 15,000 miles ago.
Lots of carbon build up, some oil in intake runners.
Will no more once the other head comes off. Prognosis is take it to 113ci with WFO Larry doing the heads.
Roadrunner, why not go 117 over honing your cylinders. Only real difference is the cost of cylinders vs. honing and you gain 4 Cubes. No replacement for displacement :nixweiss:
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Roadrunner, why not go 117 over honing your cylinders. Only real difference is the cost of cylinders vs. honing and you gain 4 Cubes. No replacement for displacement :nixweiss:
To be quite honest, I don't need the horspower. The Energy One +1 clutch I have can handle a 113 i'm sure. Not so sure about the 117. Same with my Andrews 57H cams.
I'm 65 years old, did all my go fast stuff 20-30 years ago. I'd like my CVO to pull like it's got a pair, but don't want or need the tire shredding power of a really built motor.
Before it broke it had about 103 HP and 111 TQ depending on which dyno it was on.
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I worry about the cylinder liners being to thin or not enough material behind them. Seen several that were blue'd etc especially at the thrust points. Might ask SneakyPete about his. :nixweiss:
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That thing got a HEMI?
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Been running an old zippers combo for years, dual springs high lift cam (657). Noisy? Yep. Bullit proof so far, 30k and counting. It does make one hell of a racket, sounds like an old shovel.
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Update: Got a call that my bike is ready. I'm excited! been too long but you can't rush a good builder.
If you have a serious need to know what happened (probable reason why an AV&V spring broke)
send me a PM.
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To be quite honest, I don't need the horspower. The Energy One +1 clutch I have can handle a 113 i'm sure. Not so sure about the 117. Same with my Andrews 57H cams.
I'm 65 years old, did all my go fast stuff 20-30 years ago. I'd like my CVO to pull like it's got a pair, but don't want or need the tire shredding power of a really built motor.
Before it broke it had about 103 HP and 111 TQ depending on which dyno it was on.
When too much is just right....Twice as much is perfect!
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110HP and 127TQ is just right for me. 84/104 for a stock 2018 114 Fatboy S.
Thanks to Just Nick at Shamrock Cycles and Performance in Round Rock for he and his staff's tender loving care of my bike (and to WFO Larry for the heads.)
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This is same setup but as a 110.
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110HP and 127TQ is just right for me. 84/104 for a stock 2018 114 Fatboy S.
Thanks to Just Nick at Shamrock Cycles and Performance in Round Rock for he and his staff's tender loving care of my bike (and to WFO Larry for the heads.)
Wow I'm loving this curve long time :-*
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I'm told it was not a faulty spring.
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That thing got a HEMI??
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Nice flat AFR :2vrolijk_21:
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I'm told it was not a faulty spring.
Why I don't like beehives. :(
John
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That's not faulty? :nixweiss: