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CVO Technical => Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes => Topic started by: Fast FLHX on April 23, 2012, 11:40:58 PM
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Shopping between the 11 way adjustable Arnott Alden system and legends. Legends is significantly more expensive.
Thoughts?
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I'm completely satisfied with my Legends, but I have friends who like their Arnott's too... I think you'd be satisfied either way... :2vrolijk_21:
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I looked at both for my cuse7 and went with the Legends mainly because they have a lifetime warranty and the Arnott has only 5 years. They will leak eventually. I've had to send mine from my '07 back a couple times for repair at no charge.
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I'm pretty sure there is a reason for the difference in price.
I tried the Arnott's, didn't care for them at all and took them off. All they really do is change the ride height with air pressure. And the ride gets worse as you adjust up - just like having air shocks on your 70's muscle cars :drink:
A good air suspension will adjust ride height and keep the ride comfortable, which is what I believe the legends do.
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I looked at both for my cuse7 and went with the Legends mainly because they have a lifetime warranty and the Arnott has only 5 years. They will leak eventually. I've had to send mine from my '07 back a couple times for repair at no charge.
That's a good point... I sent my Legend shocks back once for service also. They were rebuilt at no charge... :2vrolijk_21:
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I love my Legends! Always smooth no matter what the load or pressure.
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I heard the compressor is slow. Also Arnott makes two versions. Are you all saying the Aldan 11 way adjustable version is too rough of a ride?
Price difference is substantial so I am trying to wrap my mind around that.
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I heard the compressor is slow. Also Arnott makes two versions. Are you all saying the Aldan 11 way adjustable version is too rough of a ride?
Price difference is substantial so I am trying to wrap my mind around that.
I had the higher end version of the Arnott's. Did about 300 miles and took them off.
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I have had Legends for five years now. The compressor is very slow and they leak down overnight so have to drop them or the alarm will go off when they make their last drop. Does that mean I should send them back? The ride I am happy with but still may switch to the Arnott compressor which pumps up fast like right now while the Legend compressor is still groaning away. It seems there is a change in the newer Legends like several bumps while pumping up that mine doesn't have. Noticed on 56fle's new bike as we compared them while on a trip. Noticed I was flat footed sitting on his bike fully dropped but not quite on mine. Could be new frame, lower profile tires, don't know.
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I have had Legends for five years now. The compressor is very slow and they leak down overnight so have to drop them or the alarm will go off when they make their last drop. Does that mean I should send them back? The ride I am happy with but still may switch to the Arnott compressor which pumps up fast like right now while the Legend compressor is still groaning away. It seems there is a change in the newer Legends like several bumps while pumping up that mine doesn't have. Noticed on 56fle's new bike as we compared them while on a trip. Noticed I was flat footed sitting on his bike fully dropped but not quite on mine. Could be new frame, lower profile tires, don't know.
Terry...if you're leaking down like that, you've got a leak somewhere. It's not normal. While the ambient air temp will have a small effect, it will never have that much effect. If you've made sure all your connections are good (you can check them with a soapy solution...either make it yourself, or pick up a bottle at a local HVAC/Refrigeration supply store), there's really only a couple of things it could likely be. One is the bleed off solenoid is not closing completely, thus letting a small amount of air leak out of the system. The other is that the boots on the shocks are leaking...the only way to test them is to take them off, plumb up an air line to pump them up, then submerge in a bucket of water. My guess is that it's the boots, with them being 5 years old. Give Legends a call and see what they suggest. They have changed the internals on the shocks a bit since we did the group buy back in '07 or whenever it was.
The compressor is a little slow, but on one hand that's a good thing, as you can pump them up just a little bit at a time to get the ride just right. That's never been a big issue with me, but it is a bit slow.
To the OP...it is possible to get too much air in the Legends and have a too firm ride, but it's pretty obvious when you do that. For "normal" riding, with just me on the bike, I can pump them up about half way and that's a good starting point...you can tell when they bottom out, so if they do, just add a bit of air until that's not happening. Riding with them fully lowered is not recommended. The Legends really perform great with a load on them. If you shop around, you can get them for $1400 or so.
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Never having seen the Arnott compressor I cannot compare it to the Legend as for speed of inflating the shocks. Like Midnight Rider said it does allow for precision. And it seems to me that it is only maybe 30 seconds or so anyway. What's the big hurry? :nixweiss: If I'm that pushed for time I'm most likely not on my motorcycle anyway. I ride it for fun and relaxation not hurry, hurry. :2vrolijk_21:
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I still have my Arnotts and like them.
1. the Arnotts not only raise but change the ability of the preload but ride comfort (softness) is a function of psi.
you cannot raise the rear without increasing the firmness.
my loaded weight and riding style allow me to pump up my system fairly high. and the suspension gives me lots of travel.
I do not like the leak down (I have a small leak and my system will bottom out left sitting overnight)
My biggest problem is that since the system is adjustable (ride and height) that the handling is also changed and not as predictable with psi changes.
it has been hard to maintain an exact fixed psi.
The Arnotts are not well suited to lighter riders and preloads (I cannot speak for the legends).
What I really want is a fixed ride height (regardless of preload) and an adjustable firmness in ride. That I have not come across yet with any manufacture.
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Keats, the Legends are pretty much the same. Pump 'em up and the firmness will increase. Riding solo I can't go all the way up but when riding two-up I usually ride almost at the top of the travel. But it is nice to be able to adjust on the fly. In any case they are much better than the stock shocks - and I don't want to have to fool with adjusting pre-load on manual shocks. So all in all the air ride suspension is the best for my needs and riding style. :2vrolijk_21:
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I have Arnotts and am very happy with them. I'm 195 pounds and live in the documented worst roads state of LA.
I don't have any bleed down problem and the ride is always smooth and soft. As for cornering, we have Bayou roads that twist just like the Dragon except our roads don't have any banking on the turns and some actually lay with a slight bank in the wrong direction.
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Keats...by definition, you'll never find a shock that has a fixed preload for all loads. On a standard, exposed spring type shock, the preload, or sag, is set via tension on the spring. With air shocks, it's just done with air, that's all. Either way, the preload must be adjusted for different loads...well, it doesn't HAVE to be, but if you don't want to bottom out the shock you do.
A shock like a Bitubo has three adjustments: Sag (preload) which is adjusted by measuring how far the bike "settles" with any given load on the shock and is adjusted by turning a collar, increasing or decreasing spring tension. Rebound damping, which has an adjustable range of 1-5, and effects the rate at which the shock piston moves downward after a compression stroke...on a Bitubo, you can usually set this on 2 or 3 and leave it. Compression damping, which, on the Bitubo shock, is adjustable via a knob on the gas canister that controls a needle valve, effecting in a non-linear fashion the response of the shock piston to an upward stroke of the swingarm. That part is easy to adjust. The difficult adjustment is the spring preload, but once you figure it out, you'll typically have three or four settings: solo; solo with a load; two up, which may be the same setting as solo with a load; and two up loaded.
On a bike that is not a bagger, adjustment of a spring type shock is not a huge deal. But on a bagger, you pretty much have to remove the bags to adjust the preload, which is a bit of a PITA. That's what is so nice with a system like the Arnott or Legend...you push a button to adjust the sag (preload).
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Never having seen the Arnott compressor I cannot compare it to the Legend as for speed of inflating the shocks. Like Midnight Rider said it does allow for precision. And it seems to me that it is only maybe 30 seconds or so anyway. What's the big hurry? :nixweiss: If I'm that pushed for time I'm most likely not on my motorcycle anyway. I ride it for fun and relaxation not hurry, hurry. :2vrolijk_21:
I was at Street Vibes a few years ago and walked up on a vendor demonstrating his shocks and was amazed how fast they pumped up and dropped down. I then looked behind his saddle bags and asked him hey I noticed you have Legends how does it go up and down so fast. His answer was I am using the Arnott compressor. Being short of inseam I like to drop down at some traffic lights when riding 2-up as balancing two people on your toes can be a chore. And as I take off I am holding the button in waiting to pump up to the right amount. Guess I like a right now otherwise I hear more shock, more shock from the back seat.
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Considering going with the FBI Drop Seat kit. Was quoted $400 install and $350 to color match the battery boxes. Considering the legends air ride is the same cost for the kit and install is the same from HD dealer I am looking at a difference of only paint.
FYI, I called Mean City Cycle and they said CVO seats cannot be narrowed or lowered since they are already really thin.
For those noticing my for sale thread...I am clearly undecided.
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A couple of things to consider: With the Legends, you not only get the ability to lower the bike when wanted/needed, but also get 100% better suspension. If you decide to sell the bike, you can pull the Legends off the bike, put the stock stuff back on, and sell the Legends to recoup some of your money. Leaving them on the bike will not increase the value of the bike unless you find someone who is willing to pay the difference between book value and what you are asking above that because of what you've done to the bike. You never get your money out of anything additional you do to a bike...book value is book value.
If you put the FBI kit on the bike, it's not really something every future buyer may want/need. And with ABS brakes, you need additional parts. I'm seeing the FBI kit as costing $1999.00, not including the additional ABS manifold. Plus, you don't really know how comfortable the seat will be for you. The standard kit gets you lower, but also moves the seat pan back 2", so then you may have a handlebar issue, not to mention foot controls. The other kit that gets you even lower moves the seat position 2" forward, but narrows the seat considerably, so if you're a short person with a big butt, it may not be comfortable. From my calculations, you'd have close to $3000 in the FBI kit install, if not a bit more.
$400 seems a bit much for installing the Legends, unless that price includes installing the switch wiring internally on the handlebars. Otherwise, it's a 2 hour job. Even if they do charge $400 and you pay full retail for the shocks, that's $2000.
:nixweiss:
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Most of the people I talked to said that any of the air ride systems makes the ride firmer.
I would be going with the narrow kit if I did this. I am 5'6" on a good day.
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Both systems can be over pumped and thus be too firm, it just takes a couple rides experimenting to find the sweet spot. By the way I'm also 5'6", have tried all of the different stuff mentioned above and nothing at any price has worked better than my Arnotts at $1100 plus 2.5 hr. labor.
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I have the Arnott 13" 11 way adjustable. Although I am extremely pleased with the flexibility to raise and lower the bike when needed I am not very happy with the ride quality (5'5", 165 lbs). The ride is very stiff (no I don't fill them up all the way) and seems sharp when hitting bumps. Its funny to have found this thread as I am considering swapping mine out for legends or progressives in the near future. I count 7 sec when filling, full travel is about 11 sec, maybe I need to try much less pressure ???
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I was at Street Vibes a few years ago and walked up on a vendor demonstrating his shocks and was amazed how fast they pumped up and dropped down. I then looked behind his saddle bags and asked him hey I noticed you have Legends how does it go up and down so fast. His answer was I am using the Arnott compressor. Being short of inseam I like to drop down at some traffic lights when riding 2-up as balancing two people on your toes can be a chore. And as I take off I am holding the button in waiting to pump up to the right amount. Guess I like a right now otherwise I hear more shock, more shock from the back seat.
I hear ya. Understand why the fill rate is important to you. In your case the Legend compressor is definitely too slow.
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I have the Arnott 13" 11 way adjustable. Although I am extremely pleased with the flexibility to raise and lower the bike when needed I am not very happy with the ride quality (5'5", 165 lbs). The ride is very stiff (no I don't fill them up all the way) and seems sharp when hitting bumps. Its funny to have found this thread as I am considering swapping mine out for legends or progressives in the near future. I count 7 sec when filling, full travel is about 11 sec, maybe I need to try much less pressure ???
Everyone I spoke with that had Arnott's seemed to be of the same opinion. Under 200 pound, not a good ride.
200 and more the ride got better the higher the weight.
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So consensus is that the legends are a better ride than the arnotts at lower weight?
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Ive spoke with several people that have the Legends and it sounds like they ride alot better than the Arnott's. I am on my second bike with Arnott's only because I get them for half the price of the Legends. I put them on my flhxse3 because im only about 5'8"... At ride height im still not flat footed when stopped, still looking for ways to get a little lower. Im thinking about lowering the front end too.