Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CVOIRA]

I own a 2010 CVO ultra. I upgraded the front fairing & rear speakers to the HD boom audio. I would like to add speakers to the lower fairings without going crazy changing out equipment making it a 6 speaker system.
Has anyone installed and integrated the J&M Rokker series lower fairing speakers with the 250w J&M Amp while keeping all other original HD equipment intact on an ultra? I have been speaking with John at J&M and he says it will definetily work and has explained the configeration on another thread but would require some knowledge of reading complex wiring diagrams. It is alot of money to spend without knowing 100% if I can do the install correctly. I was hoping J&M could supply more detailed installation instructions since John claims he has installed this system in many ultra's using the stock tourpak amp not to mention the cost of the package is extreme.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. tks

Ira

[Harleypingman]

Ira,

I'm not sure why JMJOHN would refer to "complex wiring diagrams."  In a typical, non-CVO Ultra installation, the OEM front speaker wires are disconnected from the speakers and re-connected as the right/left inputs to the amp.  The left/right output wires from the amp are then reconnected to the front speakers.  J&M supplies the harness to do this.

However, on your CVO Ultra, the "typical" wiring can't be done because the speaker wires connected to your front speakers are carrying the amplified signal from the tour pak amplifier.  What you would do is tap or splice the front speaker output wires from the Harman Kardon head unit (i.e. before the output signal is amplified by the tour pak amp) and use these spliced/tapped front speaker wires as the inputs to the amp.  You would then use the speaker wires for the speakers in the fairing lowers supplied in J&M's kit as the output wires from the amp.

You'll find the front speaker wires in the 23 wire connector plugged into the HK radio.  The front speakers wires are:  (1) right side---chamber 1, Light Green/Bk + and, chamber 18---Gray/Red - ; and, (2) left side---chamber 17, Light Green/White + and, chamber 16 White/Orange - .

Another option for fairing lower speakers is to use HD's speaker boxes from the 2011 CVO Street Glide.  Hd-dude and I have used them with 6.5" speakers.  The CVO speaker boxes retail for $32 ea. so you'd have $64  in speaker boxes and choose from a wide selection of speakers, including Hawg-wired, Focal, etc.  Since J&M's kit lists for $439, you are paying quite a bit for their speaker boxes and a little wiring.  You could also use the Arc 125.2 mini amp (from which the J&M amp was cloned) and purchase the bracket from forum member 141_starlifter for relocating the XM and CB modules under the HK for a more economical package.

I'm not a tech or audio guy, and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.  But I've done many audio mods to my bike and have become very familiar with the uniqueness of the CVO Ultras and SG's.  In any event, you can consult the audio professional of your choice before pulling the trigger.

Good luck with your project.

Carl

PS:  You can check with Tony at Iron Cross Audio, but instead of splicing/tapping the front speaker wires, you may
be able to use the rear speaker outputs of the HK head unit since those aren't used on your bike.  On your bike, the front signals left and right are sent to the amp where the signals are split to provide front and rear signals.  You'd simply add the appropriate sockets to the wires and insert them in the 35 wire connector that correspond to the rear signal right and left sides + and - . 

[mrmagloo]

Hey Carl,

Are you sure that the J&M 250w and 500w don't take the high levels?  I thought that Sean over at Dr. VT told me earlier, it was taking the high out of the HK Amp on the CVO's.  That's when we backed into the discussion about the A version amps not being reprogrammable to lower the frequency response.  Im thinking, if that's not the case, then that entire discussion was irrelevant?

Please advise as I was thinking about having Jim install the 500w at Strugis, if they are going to be there. I assume so.

[Harleypingman]

Hey Carl,

Are you sure that the J&M 250w and 500w don't take the high levels?  I thought that Sean over at Dr. VT told me earlier, it was taking the high out of the HK Amp on the CVO's.  That's when we backed into the discussion about the A version amps not being reprogrammable to lower the frequency response.  Im thinking, if that's not the case, then that entire discussion was irrelevant?

Please advise as I was thinking about having Jim install the 500w at Strugis, if they are going to be there. I assume so.

"High level" inputs to the amp typically refers to the head unit's (not an add-on amplifier's) speaker output signals.  "Low level" inputs are the audio signal before it is amplified by the head unit's internal amp; "low level" are also referred to as "pre-amp" outputs from the head unit.  The low level inputs are desireable for use as the inputs to an add-on amp because they don't have the inherent distortion created by the head unit's internal amplifier; i.e. they by-pass the internal amp and avoid the distortion.   I've seen the installation instructions for the 250W and 500W J&M amps and they use the HK speaker, high level outputs (not amplified by the CVO amp, either A or B version) as the inputs for their amps.  

What I was explaining in my initial reply is that the front speaker connections on the CVO Ultras are using a signal that has been amplified by the tour pak mounted amp which is not to be used as the input to an additional amp, e.g. the J&M 250.  Hence, the reference to tapping or splicing the front speaker wire signals before the signal is sent to the tour pak's amp and used these spliced/tapped wires as the inputs to an add-on J&M amp for the fairing lower speakers.

I'm unclear about what discussion you had about high level signal sources or their relation to HK amps on the CVO Ultras.  Frankly, I'd be astonished if you were told to use the amplified signal from the HK amp under the tour pak as an input signal for the 250W or 500W amps.  If you were told that, I'd check with an automotive audio professional (which I am not) before doing so.

Carl

[Trey767]

Guy's I'm installing the J&M 250 for the lowers, like HD dude and Carl I added lower fairing speakers. I went with Hawg wired 6.5 speakers, for the lower and the other are Hog tunes. Since the Hawg wired speakers were 4 ohms and the HD amp are 2 ohms this was a issue. I tried rewiring but quality was poor. That's why I add J&M amp to push the 4 ohms Hawg wired. I could have used others but space is a issue.  When I got back from DC my radio started cutting out from the speakers, Tony at Iron cross fix the issue with the circuit board and added a preamp for the front. I started putting everything back together, so far I like it. 

[Harleypingman]

Trey, thanks for your post on adding the fairing lower speakers and J&M 250W amp for those new speakers.  Hopefully Ira can benefit from your experience with your installation since it seems like your installation is exactly what he's asking about.

Did Iron Cross Audio add pre-amp outputs for the front and/or rear speakers?  IIRC, Tony has said that it's okay to use pre-amp outputs for front speakers, for example, while retaining the OEM front speaker outputs from the HK head unit.  Said another way, I think he said you can use both pre-amp and speaker level outputs for the same front audio signals from the HK.  Can you confirm?

Also, if you posted on your installation of the CVO speaker boxes on your bike, I missed the post and would appreciate it if you could provide a link to it.  If you haven't posted, yet, I hope you will.  Your Ultra with the CVO SG/RG rear fender and fascia, and the extended saddlebags is outstanding.

Carl

[CVOIRA]

Carl,

You should give yourself more credit. I have seen many of your comments on various threads and I find you very knowledgeable and a kind person for trying to help so many people. I spoke with Tony at Iron Cross as you suggested. If I understood him correctly he said the best way to wire the lower faring speakers and get the best sound quality is to send him the radio and he will install front preamp outputs. Then chose whatever amp with adjustable gain/speaker combination of my choice but stick with the same company so there isn't a ohms mismatch problem to deal with. Then hook up the amp to his new outputs for the fairing lower speakers. All other speakers remain as wired. Gain will need to be adjusted on the lowers because they will have much more power. He did also say you would lose fader control on only the lowers so whatever loudness you choose that is what it will be. Sounds like the way to go. I will keep monitoring the thread for other comments and ideas. Thanks for all your help and will keep you advised of what I end up doing.

Trey,

Any additional information you can share would be greatly appreciated with your lower fairing project.
Your bike looks like a beauty. Nice Job !!


Thanks guys for all your help.

Ira

[Harleypingman]

Ira,

Happy to help.  One resource you should probably talk to is Eastside HD in Bellevue, Wash.  Here's a link to their custom audio page:

http://www.harleystereo.com/custompage.asp?pg=customstereo

You'll notice that one of the packages they offer is an Arc 125.4 500W 4-channel amp with color-matched CVO Street Glide speaker boxes for the vented lowers using Focal speakers.  The kit includes wiring harnesses.  While this package is not what you want/need, it's useful because they can supply the wiring harness you'd need for your installation, and they use a painter to color-match the speaker boxes and their painter may be able to color-match your boxes to your CVO.  A guy on another forum separately purchased the right vertical fairing bracket they fabricate (by modifying the OEM bracket) for use with the 125.4 amp installation, so chances are good they'd separately sell whatever parts and/or wiring harness you'd need.

Give them a call and see if they can provide the CVO speaker boxes color-matched to your bike, a wiring harness for your specific installation (i.e. fairing lower speakers with HK pre-amp outs, plus amp wiring).  Heck, they could probably give you a quote on the Arc 125.2 amp, necessary wiring, color-matched speaker boxes w/ and w/o Focal speakers, etc.

A couple of comments about the J&M products you are considering:  the J&M 250W amp is essentially the Arc 125.2 mini amp that many have used, myself included.  An advantage of the J&M was the inclusion of brackets that provided a mounting surface for the amp above the HK, and, more importantly, a bracket below the HK for mounting the CB/XM/Ipod modules.  Until recently, it was necessary to mount modules below the radio using Velcro and/or zip ties.

Forum member 141_starlifter (Scott) supplies an excellent bracket to use for the same purposes as the J&M brackets:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=61136.15

Because of the availability of Scott's bracket, a possibly significant advantage of J&M's amp is eliminated.  J&M also supplies a harness with its amp, however, except for the amp power wiring, the speaker wiring may have little utility for your application.

Also, regarding the J&M fairing lower speaker kit, it's list price is $449.99.  HD's CVO speaker boxes retail for $32 ea. or $64 for the pair.  That leaves $385.00 or so for 6.5" speakers compared to 7.25" for the J&M.  Given that sound is personal, and I'm not an audio guy, I can't say that Focal (used by Eastside HD in their custom audio packages), Hertz (used by TIF2 and Black Diamond on their SESG2's), Polk, Boston Acoustic, etc. 6.5" speakers are better than J&M's 7.25" speakers or not.  

Bottom line:  Give Eastside HD a call and inquire about what they have that may meet your requirements and good luck with your project.

Carl    


 



    

[JMJOHN]

we just did another 6 speaker, 510w CVO Ultra yesterday, here at Laconia Bike Week ,,,,, using all J&M  ROKKER series components ,,,,

below is a copy of one of my previous posts on the correct way to do it ,,,,,

Remember, the fairing is the best acoustical position on the bike for speakers, so you would install the J&M 2-ch 250w amp in the fairing to power the J&M ROKKER series 7.25” upper fairing speakers, that will give you the most bang for the $$$ ,,,,,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Harley CVO Ultra has a pretty decent Harley 4-channel amp under the tail trunk already, and I am never in favor of ripping wiring harnesses out of the CVO models, as this can impact the resale value and the integrity overall of your bikes wiring ,,,,,,,

we have installed the J&M ROKKER series speakers and amps in hundreds of Harleys already, just this year at the various shows ((Bike-week, Laughlin etc)) and many of them were CVO's ,,,,,

I feel it works best if you FIRST replace the stock speakers on your CVO Ultra, both front and rear, with the J&M ROKKER series,,,,,, you will be very impressed with the difference in audio performance with just this speaker change ,,,,,

THEN if you also want to install the J&M LOWER 7.25” speakers (((http://www.jmcorp.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=HLRK-7252GTM-T&PF=45 ))) you would connect the FRONT channels of the rear mounted Harley CVO amplifier to the J&M LOWER fairing speakers (instead of the UPPER fairing speakers) ,,,,, add the J&M 250w 2-channel amp into the fairing, ((http://www.jmcorp.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=JAMP-250HC06&PF=45 )) to power the J&M 7.25” UPPER fairing speakers ,,,,,,

Inside the fairing, the Harley amplifier wiring harness connects to the radio’s front channel output wires, with the normal sized in-line spade connectors that normally connect to the speakers ,,, so you would splice into these radio signal wires right at this point, to parallel the inputs to the Harley amp AND J&M fairing mounted 250w two channel amp, with the two front channels from the Harley HK radio ,,,,,,

And last ,,,, since the signal inputs for the front channels on BOTH amplifiers, are in parallel with the front channel outputs from the HK radio, you will need to adjust the gain levels on the J&M 250w amp, up about 20%, to have the same volume to the fairing speakers, as the Harley amp will have to the rear speakers and LOWER fairing speakers ,,,,,,

We have done quite a few of these Harley CVOs this way and a CVO set up in this 6-speaker configuration will just absolutely jump up and down when the music is cranked up ,,,,,,

[mrmagloo]

Jim,

I assume you will be at Sturgis - will you be doing installs there? How much do you charge for the installs?

Also, I was leaning towards the 125.4 - 500w, for the stock front and rear. I already have least years 7.25's and matching 5.25 rears. So in that scenario, if I wanted to add the 7.25" lowers, I would run those off the stock HO Amp?

Lastly, I'm trying to read between the lines on how these amps are wired up. I thought last year Sean at DRVT said no splicing, so I assumed you used the high levels at the speakers. I was recently total no.  So, do you make some kind of connector that sits in-between the stock connectors to intercept the appropriate signals?  I'm just trying to sort out how this 'No Splice' is accomplished, as I'm really not to keen about hacking into the stock harnesses.

From your last post, it sounds like you are reaffirming the 'No Splice'  Plug and Play logic but I've been unable to find an install manual on your site to confirm.

[CVOIRA]

Carl,

I sent an e mail to eastside Harley of what I am trying to accomplish. I will let you know what they say. There is a 3 hour time difference as you know so it will take them longer to respond. I will call them if I don't get a response.
Thanks again for all the information you have given me.

Ira

[Trey767]

Hey Carl, sorry for not getting back sooner I was enjoying the weather, and burning gas. I have sounds again thanks to Tony @ iron cross; also thanks for the kind words. Ira also thanks.

Now, I got the radio back from Tony on Thursday, and I didn't get a chance until late Friday night to put it back in. What Tony said is that the HD amp controls the fader, so I will not be able fade the lowers it will give the full J&M amp output. I really like it, I like the J&M set up moving the XM/CB under the radio.

[Trey767]

More pics

[Harleypingman]

Trey,

Congrats on the installation; looks great and I'm sure the new HW 6.5" speakers sound great as well.

Carl

[TIF2]

Hey Carl, sorry for not getting back sooner I was enjoying the weather, and burning gas. I have sounds again thanks to Tony @ iron cross; also thanks for the kind words. Ira also thanks.

Now, I got the radio back from Tony on Thursday, and I didn't get a chance until late Friday night to put it back in. What Tony said is that the HD amp controls the fader, so I will not be able fade the lowers it will give the full J&M amp output. I really like it, I like the J&M set up moving the XM/CB under the radio.

Hmmm.... I have rear pods installed on my SESG2 and fade works fine (no Ultra amp - just wired to H/K head unit). Perhaps it's a CAN bus thing wherein CAN bus "sees" the Ultra amp and fade control is transferred to it? Grasping at straws here, but if the wiring is done correctly you can fade rear speakers (pods and lowers) without the Ultra factory amp.

Once I'm done I'll have fade control between fairing speakers and lowers without the Tour Pak installed. Fade will be maintained between fairing and lowers/pods with the TP installed. When the TP is on, fade will control the speakers in the lowers AND the speakers in the pods together - I haven't found a way possible to separate the two (it's only a 4-channel max head unit   ). I'll use gain controls of the TP installed amp to adjust balance between the lowers and pods.

I'm mostly confused about fader control requiring the Ultra amp ... perhaps you meant to say that Tony told you fader was contolled by the HD head-unit (as opposed to the "HD amp")? I'll need to look into this as (so far) I haven't run into this issue. If it isn't realted to CAN bus ... and your statement from Tony is correct ...dunno what it could be.