Topic: Are Harley-Davidsons Too Reliable? (Read 9174 times)

smkymtnboy · « **on:** January 28, 2016, 03:37:57 PM »

read this. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-28/are-harley-davidsons-too-reliable-?cmpid=yhoo.headline

Chains · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2016, 04:36:56 PM »

Quote from: smkymtnboy on January 28, 2016, 03:37:57 PM

read this. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-28/are-harley-davidsons-too-reliable-?cmpid=yhoo.headline

Belongs in Humor

Twolanerider · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2016, 05:02:03 PM »

Quote from: Chains on January 28, 2016, 04:36:56 PM

Belongs in Humor

Or in the GiGo file. Used when all data isn't considered for sales statements. After all, it's easy to claim significant fleet reliability levels when so much of that fleet gets so few miles compared to other more regular vehicles. I'd love to see someone generate fleet reliability data for Harley's that average 15,000 miles per year over 15 (or even 10) years.

grc · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2016, 05:20:02 PM »

More BS from the masters of BS. The real reason there are so many old Harley's still around is NOT a testament to the reliability of the product, but rather a testament to the time and effort and money people have invested in them to keep them in running condition.

Jerry

smkymtnboy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2016, 05:28:25 PM »

jerry. are you and don suggesting that article has no merit and numbers represented are although factual are possibly tainted or even tilted toward being baised.

Cat Eye · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2016, 05:53:17 PM »

This is not surprising....what do you think the average number of miles that most Harley's are ridden in a year?

I know of three guys who ride their Harley only a couple hundred miles a year.....I call this the "Wild Hogs Syndrome".

sadunbar · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2016, 05:59:47 PM »

Quote from: Cat Eye on January 28, 2016, 05:53:17 PM

This is not surprising....what do you think the average number of miles that most Harley's are ridden in a year?

I know of three guys who ride their Harley only a couple hundred miles a year.....I call this the "Wild Hogs Syndrome".

My cousins husband has a 2012 Ultra Classic with 1300 miles in it. His eyes just glaze over when I tell him the first day of our bi annual trip to the Rocky Mountains is a 1000 mile riding day. And when we return home 12 to 15 days later, we've traveled in the neighborhood of 6,000 miles...

Cat Eye · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2016, 06:07:58 PM »

Quote from: sadunbar on January 28, 2016, 05:59:47 PM

My cousins husband has a 2012 Ultra Classic with 1300 miles in it. His eyes just glaze over when I tell him the first day of our bi annual trip to the Rocky Mountains is a 1000 mile riding day. And when we return home 12 to 15 days later, we've traveled in the neighborhood of 6,000 miles...

Know what you mean...and there are a lot of garage queen Harley out there

Glock · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2016, 08:18:30 PM »

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Bike has 13,000 miles on it, 9 months old and bent valves. Having my mechanic bullet proof the motor.. Draw your own conclusions..

sadunbar · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2016, 08:20:28 PM »

Quote from: Glock on January 28, 2016, 08:18:30 PM

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Bike has 13,000 miles on it, 9 months old and bent valves. Having my mechanic bullet proof the motor.. Draw your own conclusions..

What are you having done to your motor?

mark · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2016, 09:42:34 PM »

This is what I'd expect the HD mgmt team to say...they're going to spin the truth. Of all the info in the article, the one number that stood out - inventory has increased by 31% since this time last year.

I realize this is anecdotal, but a long-time Harley riding buddy just got rid of his 2011 SERG and purchased an Indian Vintage and a Scout. Competition from Indian and Harley's aging customer demographics are starting to impact the MoCo.

Bent valves after 9 months and 13k? The 110 curse continues...and many are clamoring for the 110 to be the standard non-CVO engine.

charles05663 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2016, 11:15:20 PM »

When I read the article it looked like it was written by the HD PR firm.

It is nice seeing Indian taking a few of their scalps. After all the dealers have been skinning their customers for years.

jmanderson6 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2016, 11:24:13 PM »

interesting article!!!

Para Bellum · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2016, 12:08:41 AM »

Thanks for posting that. It is interesting, but not for what the very misleading title tries to make us think. It should have been titled "Why MoCo Can't Sell All The Bikes It's Making," and then added some more info about the overall ownership cost of an HD compared to other makes. Of course, that would have made it a hit piece, and a shiite-storm would have sprung up.

IMO, the author either has no knowledge of bike ownership and accepted the premise of the MoCo statement about the percentage of HDs still running, or he's in collusion with HD to hide the structural problems that the previous CEO left for Levatich (primarily, low quality of engineering and reliability, with the twin goals of boosting initial sales' profit margins and increasing the amount spent on replacing inferior quality parts).

There's an important message about the used/repo market that is glossed over: customers are selling, or walking away from, their bikes to get out from under the cost. Most of those customers aren't buying a new replacement. Many others compare cost of new vs. used...and go used. My "home" dealer has figured that out: they actively attend the auctions to buy repos, and they sell 3 times as many used as new. Their initial profits are higher on used bikes' sales, and they can count on plenty of repeat business for maintenance and repairs. It worked well for them, and they expanded greatly, even during the past 8 or 9 years of a poor economy. Meanwhile, many other dealers changed hands or went under.

If more dealers realize they can do better in the used market, MoCo will have a harder time selling their inventory, at least until (1) used inventory is drawn down and dealer's margins approach those of new bikes, and/or (2) MoCo reduces the price they charge to dealers. And even if all that happens, people who who have "income insecurity" due to the overall-poor economy will tend to buy used just for the lower entry cost.

IMO, CEO Levatich inherited a flaming sack of dog-doo from the previous CEO, who got out in the nick of time. It's going to take some fancy dancing to keep HD as profitable as it has been, and I would sell my stock if I had any.

muddypaws · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2016, 08:18:35 AM »

I ride a lot. (22,000 a year) and have had a lot done to the motor just to keep it running....

ultrarider123 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2016, 08:54:32 AM »

I almost spit coffee on the screen reading the last paragraph....the bolding is from me, not the article...

"The used-Harley market isn’t going anywhere, but if all goes as planned, it will have a whole new crop of customers by the time boomers take off their leather chaps and coast into the old-folks’ home."

I don't know about you guys/gals but my plan is to ride until the Lord calls me home. I enjoy the blurb at the bottom of all the posts from our buddy from Augusta, 16HD110, which states:

"Life's journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting Holy crap, what a Ride!"

Well said and phooey to Mr. Kyle Stock...

mark · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2016, 09:06:45 AM »

So the HD spin is...that since Harleys are so reliable, that reliability has caused the used market to cut into new sales? The poorly informer reporter that penned this article should have asked: If true, why wasn't this happening in the 1990s? During that period, dealers couldn't keep bikes in stock and the used market was booming. Why didn't those used bikes cut into your sales then?

charles05663 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2016, 10:23:30 AM »

How about a new title?

Bikers find older Harley-Davidson motorcycles more reliable then the over-priced, failure-prone newer models that lack imagination

Rooster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2016, 03:46:34 PM »

Quote from: charles05663 on January 29, 2016, 10:23:30 AM

How about a new title?

Bikers find older Harley-Davidson motorcycles more reliable then the over-priced, failure-prone newer models that lack imagination

Ding Ding Ding winner

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2016, 10:39:49 AM »

Quote from: Glock on January 28, 2016, 08:18:30 PM

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Bike has 13,000 miles on it, 9 months old and bent valves. Having my mechanic bullet proof the motor.. Draw your own conclusions..

Sorry to hear that, my 15 SERGU has 31K trouble free on it. A friends has more than that.

HighOnHD · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2016, 11:14:18 AM »

Quote from: FLSTFI Dave on January 30, 2016, 10:39:49 AM

Sorry to hear that, my 15 SERGU has 31K trouble free on it. A friends has more than that.

:2vrolijk_21:Thanks Dave. It's nice to hear both sides of the story. I only have 17k trouble free miles on my 15 SESG, but put 47k on my old SG with only paying $50 deductible for a new comp during those fun-loving miles! I do make sure and regularly maintain with synthetic oil.

Glock · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2016, 03:32:04 PM »

Quote from: Glock on January 28, 2016, 08:18:30 PM

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Bike has 13,000 miles on it, 9 months old and bent valves. Having my mechanic bullet proof the motor.. Draw your own conclusions..

Please don't get me wrong when I posted this I was not jumping on the bandwagon bashing the MoCo) as I have owned Harley's for years and I will continue to own them..The Moco fixed the bent valves without question and I appreciate that. My issue is that in my heart I felt the parts they used originally and as replacements are of a substandard quality..it was my decision to have my mechanic yank the motor and replace what we feel are substandard parts. I have voided the warranty by doing this and I am ok with that. Every piece of mechanical equipment breaks and I understand that, it just seems the there flagship bikes (cvo's) break more than usual..
Hopefully this will be addressed by the new regime so HD will reign supreme and the reliability will be once again be one of the main focuses of the company
Thanks,

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2016, 09:02:43 AM »

Quote from: Glock on January 30, 2016, 03:32:04 PM

Please don't get me wrong when I posted this I was not jumping on the bandwagon bashing the MoCo) as I have owned Harley's for years and I will continue to own them..The Moco fixed the bent valves without question and I appreciate that. My issue is that in my heart I felt the parts they used originally and as replacements are of a substandard quality..it was my decision to have my mechanic yank the motor and replace what we feel are substandard parts. I have voided the warranty by doing this and I am ok with that. Every piece of mechanical equipment breaks and I understand that, it just seems the there flagship bikes (cvo's) break more than usual..
Hopefully this will be addressed by the new regime so HD will reign supreme and the reliability will be once again be one of the main focuses of the company
Thanks,

That seems to be true, the new motor sizes and upgrades are beta tested on the CVO bikes. Also from what I see, most CVO owners tend to ride their bikes more miles per year.

Yes harley loosed tolerance which make the chance of a failure more likely. They have used crappy lifters for years.

I did not think you were bashing HD. I have had many HD's and in the future will get another new one. Yet I have been pissed as heck about the head unit in the rushmore bikes.

HighOnHD · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2016, 02:45:08 PM »

Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to discount anyone else’s experience with HD’s. I just feel there are two sides to it, and quite honestly I believe one side is underrepresented on this forum!
As far as blowing up engines go… I have blown up six engines in my SS396 69 Chevelle (five of those were small blocks after replacing the big-block), as well as untold numbers of motorcycle engines from various manufacturers. These were blown-up either racing or playing, but in none of these cases did I jump up and down and blame the manufacturer, or espouse how bad of a design the small block Chevy engine was, or any of the motorcycle engines.

I’m also NOT saying that everyone in this thread is bashing HD. Although I feel there are some on this website that have some sort of chip on their shoulders against HD. I’m just saying I can blow up any damn engine no matter how well it is designed!!!! That includes engines built and designed by anyone on this planet! Nothing is perfect. I’m happy with my bike.

I personally believe that HD’s head-unit is probably the best “factory” motorcycle unit offered at the moment. At least I love mine. Although I haven’t bothered researching any others being offered, mostly because I have no complaints of any consequence with mine. I appreciate riding my bike and those experience of the ride. The extra comforts of the electronics are just exactly that for me… extras that are nice on occasion, but it is all about the ride for me. The wind in my face, and the exploration and freedom and forced disconnection from all the other REAL issues in modern life. Even though those “disconnections” are just temporary, they are beneficial to my sanity, and contribute to my happiness. All this bashing is just an attempt by other’s to bring me down from my high.

Glock · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2016, 04:23:44 PM »

Glad you are high.

Just responding to the OP.. Ride long enough things are bound to break..This is my second CVO and both have had motor issues in and around the same mileage. This time I have decided to take matters into my own hands (well actually is the hands of my mechanic). Both bikes were on regular maintenance schedules, fluids were Amsoil (20-50 motor, primary & 75/140 severe gear oil transmission). Ridden with care, but not babied. This time bike broke 3/4 mi from house as I was heading down to Florida..
I hope you never have a motor issue on your ride, but for me the confidence level of the longevity of the motor is at an all time low..Maybe both of my bikes were built on the second Monday of the month?

With all the work I am having done on the motor there is a chance the first time I twist the throttle it could break...
Ride safe and far everyone..

HighOnHD · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2016, 08:34:05 PM »

Quote from: Glock on January 31, 2016, 04:23:44 PM

Glad you are high.
Just responding to the OP.. Ride long enough things are bound to break..This is my second CVO and both have had motor issues in and around the same mileage. This time I have decided to take matters into my own hands (well actually is the hands of my mechanic). Both bikes were on regular maintenance schedules, fluids were Amsoil (20-50 motor, primary & 75/140 severe gear oil transmission). Ridden with care, but not babied. This time bike broke 3/4 mi from house as I was heading down to Florida..
I hope you never have a motor issue on your ride, but for me the confidence level of the longevity of the motor is at an all time low..Maybe both of my bikes were built on the second Monday of the month?
With all the work I am having done on the motor there is a chance the first time I twist the throttle it could break...
Ride safe and far everyone..

Well I just had dinner and a couple of stouts, and maybe more capable of feeling your pain. I really hope your new motor lasts longer and provides more fun. No doubt I would not be a happy camper if I started out on a fun expedition and had the bike die on me. I know I was pretty pissed when my wife's Honda Goldwing Trike broke shortly after we set off on a trip.

You see it isn't only HD's that have issues. Fact is it is just part of life... sucks sometimes. Like you I just dealt with it as best as I could and quickly moved on to do what is most important... enjoyed the rest of the trip! Enjoy your hopefully improved bike and have a blast!

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2016, 08:16:52 AM »

Quote from: HighOnHD on January 31, 2016, 02:45:08 PM

I personally believe that HD’s head-unit is probably the best “factory” motorcycle unit offered at the moment. At least I love mine. Although I haven’t bothered researching any others being offered, mostly because I have no complaints of any consequence with mine. I appreciate riding my bike and those experience of the ride. The extra comforts of the electronics are just exactly that for me… extras that are nice on occasion, but it is all about the ride for me. The wind in my face, and the exploration and freedom and forced disconnection from all the other REAL issues in modern life. Even though those “disconnections” are just temporary, they are beneficial to my sanity, and contribute to my happiness. All this bashing is just an attempt by other’s to bring me down from my high.

Curious as to how much you use the GPS, before the last update? How many time zones have you crossed? Dang GPS headunit thinks Part of SD is Pacific Time or Western KY is Mountain time, or East TN and GA are different time zones, when they are the same. How many times has it told you to turn the opposite direction? I have 31,xxx miles on my bike, It has been from TN to CA, WA and OR, with another Trip To MT, WY SD, and a few trips to FL.

The turn issue was correct last software update, over two years in production. Time zones are still wrong. Many other issues but I will not go into them all.

I enjoy the heck out of this bike, wouldn't have 31K on it if I didn't. The head unit was a real sore spot until late fall this year when the biggest issues were finally fixed.

As for motor reliability, My 09 SERG had the lifters fail at 44K, the day after I traded it in. Out wast last summer in WA, a friends 14 CVO limited with 20,400 miles on it had its lifers fail. Yakima HD was awesome, got the bike in at 0900 and they had the new cams, lifers and oil pump in and the bike on the road by 1600.

Rooster · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2016, 02:39:00 PM »

As far as the HD bashing goes we must remember that in the early 110 days many had to have a new motor early on and several have had 2 and 3 motors replaced for a number of reasons on the same bike. So there are some members that truly have scars from the early days.

I haven't seen any newer shop manuals lately but my 07 manual clearly stated three thousand maximum pinion runout only to be changed verbally a couple of months later that under 12 thousand is within tolerance.

HighOnHD · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2016, 03:03:07 PM »

Quote from: FLSTFI Dave on February 01, 2016, 08:16:52 AM

Curious as to how much you use the GPS, before the last update? How many time zones have you crossed? Dang GPS headunit thinks Part of SD is Pacific Time or Western KY is Mountain time, or East TN and GA are different time zones, when they are the same. How many times has it told you to turn the opposite direction? I have 31,xxx miles on my bike, It has been from TN to CA, WA and OR, with another Trip To MT, WY SD, and a few trips to FL.

The turn issue was correct last software update, over two years in production. Time zones are still wrong. Many other issues but I will not go into them all.

I enjoy the heck out of this bike, wouldn't have 31K on it if I didn't. The head unit was a real sore spot until late fall this year when the biggest issues were finally fixed.

As for motor reliability, My 09 SERG had the lifters fail at 44K, the day after I traded it in. Out wast last summer in WA, a friends 14 CVO limited with 20,400 miles on it had its lifers fail. Yakima HD was awesome, got the bike in at 0900 and they had the new cams, lifers and oil pump in and the bike on the road by 1600.

Hi Dave. Yea I haven't retired yet and never ride my bike to work, but during one holiday I spent three days with my wife riding in the Mt. Rainier/White Pass hwy 12/Yakima Valley/along that Canyon and up to Leavenworth and then back to SW Washington where we live. The next day a buddy and I left and headed east out the gorge on hwy 14 and over to Lewiston. Then along the river over Lolo Pass and up to Kalispel, then over Going to the Sun Road and out Glacier east side and down to Helena, then over to Sturgis and rode Black Hills, Iron mountain (twice), Needles, Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Vonacker Canyon etc. Then out to devils tower and across the Bighorn Mountains to Cody. Then Cody over Chief Joseph, Beartooth to Redbluff and back the same way to Cody, then into Yelowstone around the Grand Loop and back to Cody via Chief Joseph again. Then back through Yellowstone down through the Tetons to Jacksonhole and on to Idaho Falls I believe, and then out to Hells Canyon and west along the Gorge on 84 and back home.

The GPS always got us to the Best Western we were staying in without fail, and other destinations as I punched them in. Never did send me in the wrong direction (not saying it won't, but didn't in my case). I think the time zone may have gotten off once somewhere (don't remember) but you can bet it did't interfere with me having fun, or irritate me in the least. Just different expectations I suppose. There is no damn way I am going to let a GPS get in my way of enjoying rides like that. Just me I guess. I won't even put up with listening to "bitch judy" ordering me around in my via my car GPS either. Just the minimal required. I prefer listening to my music with minimal interruptions while enjoying the ride and the scenery.

Much of the ride mentioned above was planned in advance, and I can look at a map and say to myself "ok. take this road to that road and to that one." and I kind of remember a picture of the map in my head. Then when and only when necessary punch a destination into the gps.
I put over $50K in my last bike, and just figured I would get a head start with this one, plus I wanted the twin-cooled. I am completely satisfied with my bike and purchase. Sorry you are not.
I haven't bothered putting the latest update on yet and the ride mentioned above was a couple vers back. Have been in that Yskima dealer several times when riding that area. Always friendly but never needed their service. Nice to know.

HighOnHD · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2016, 03:50:31 PM »

Quote from: Rooster on February 01, 2016, 02:39:00 PM

As far as the HD bashing goes we must remember that in the early 110 days many had to have a new motor early on and several have had 2 and 3 motors replaced for a number of reasons on the same bike. So there are some members that truly have scars from the early days. I haven't seen any newer shop manuals lately but my 07 manual clearly stated three thousand maximum pinion runout only to be changed verbally a couple of months later that under 12 thousand is within tolerance.

Hi Rooster. All this typing on iPhone at lunch🙁
Anyway I will just keep repeating that when reading a lot of these threads it would give someone the impression that the bikes suck. I think the number of complaints registered on this website is a very small sampling of all the owners. I personally believe that the majority of owners are happy with their purchase like me. Otherwise they would not keep buying them.

J Heinlein · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2016, 05:37:11 PM »

Jerry, your killing me with your post. LOL. Sad but so true for most of us. If its dumping money to keep them running or looking good will all fall into this bracket. So True.

Author Topic: Are Harley-Davidsons Too Reliable? (Read 9174 times)

mark

ultrarider123

mark