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[tg061200]

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Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Twolanerider]

Interesting post to be a very first post from someone.  Can't help but wonder about fifth columns.  Anyway, the notice had already been posted.  Too lazy to type the response again.  So just cutting and pasting the response from the other location.

No matter the ox being gored or who it belonged to with just a moment's time to think I'd imagine most anyone would realize they just don't give a rat's ass.  Or at least not a big one. 

We buy the bike from the company.  Not a specific plant or assembly line.  And we've sure as hell seen assembly errors from the "hand built" methodology that we'd likely not see on a fully computerized line.  The main line has also already been doing low quantity production bikes (Shriner, Fire Fighter, Police, etc) as part of its regular production.  So suggesting the main line would do a lesser job seems a bit specious.

Done on the main line with it's greater automation and faster materials handling the price per unit of a CVO bike will cost the MoCo less.  If this is true that's the driving force.  CVO is (or at least used to be) part of P&A rather than new bike sales.  So there may be some political wrangling between the divisions.  But out here on the street I only care that they got the damn bike out the door in good shape and properly done.  Could care less how it got there or off which (domestic) line.

[Gone Fishin']

Same in this thread: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=38257.0

Ride safely,
Louis

[nidan]

Another victim of corporate america and the cost reduction mentality .

I appreciate the limited team build approach, but I don't believe that the management would change thier mind even if we all wrote letters.  I face the same problem where I've worked 25 years .  The customers have complained , management is only concerned with bottom line and profitability.

[skreminegul07]

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Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I believe that some of the quality issues that I had with mine would not have occurred in a more standard production line where a part install process is done over and over by the same worker.  You become an expert on a few processes rather than a master of none.
I'm talking missing bolts, pinched wires, etc.

[miker]

Phil,  I think most of the line workers are pros at pinched wires and loose bolt installation and general apathy. 

The QA/QC receiving corps for outsourced parts assemblies are even better a screwing the pooch.
Glad to see HD ain't changed in all the years its been around.

[PR3VS56]

I can only say that my standard FLTR was built solid.  I haven't found one item out of place -- and I've been over the bike with a fine tooth comb. 

I always thought it was pretty cool that CVO's were hand built by a few.  But if Harley has qc up on the standard line, maybe there's no need.  Very sorry for the guys who lost their jobs.

[VAZHOG]

That being said (Quality wise) is the main reason Honda pulled the Motorcycle production out of Ohio and back to Japan.

I doubt putting the cvo line in gereral production line will decrease it cost to the customer-It is a business plan to make a profit and if you can cut production cost and still make the original cost +10% that makes the share holders happy.

Having owned one & seen the CVO line being produced made owning one worth while- I had zero quality issue's but I also had no quality issue's on my 01 ultra regular production bike either. Harley has to make some real tuff changes being owned by share holders and it wouldn't surprise me to see them go Private.

[grc]

 I love how everyone bandies about that "hand built" tag.  These bikes don't come close to my definition of hand built.  The frames, engines, and all the component parts are processed the same way as any others.  The CVO's just go through final assembly in a different environment, which adds cost and eliminates many of the safeguards that exist on the real assembly lines.  One example from my experience in autos:  the production line in the plant where I last worked was equipped with very sophisticated tooling that verified installation torque of critical fasteners on every individual vehicle.  Rather than the old fashioned compressed air tools that could vary based on operator errors or air pressure variations or just plain old tool wear, all critical operations had DC electric tools with built in transducers that gave immediate feedback to the centralized computer system.  Dynamic torque as well as rotation and angle were recorded for each fastener, and any that failed to meet specifications would result in a rejection notice (alarm).  The system was tied into the actual assembly line, and if the offending fastener wasn't repaired prior to the next checkpoint on the line, the entire line would shut down until a repair was made and bought off in the system.  Now this as you may well imagine is a very expensive system, and isn't something that could easily be applied to smaller off-line operations.  So those off-line operations made do with the old fashioned tooling, or even battery operated screw shooters.  Talk about loose parts, turn somebody loose with a half charged battery screw shooter.

I for one couldn't care less about the so-called exclusivity of a "hand built"  and "custom" motorcycle.  I just want it to work properly and stay in one piece, without all the drama that seems to follow the CVO bikes.  If having these accessorized but definitely not custom or hand built bikes assembled on the real assembly line results in better quality for the customer, then by all means I support the change even if the crooks at the MoCo don't pass along the cost savings.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

I for one couldn't care less about the so-called exclusivity of a "hand built"  and "custom" motorcycle.  I just want it to work properly and stay in one piece, without all the drama that seems to follow the CVO bikes.  If having these accessorized but definitely not custom or hand built bikes assembled on the real assembly line results in better quality for the customer, then by all means I support the change even if the crooks at the MoCo don't pass along the cost savings.

Jerry

This is something that has come up before.  Can remember it discussed two or three years ago.  It was obvious to anyone not kowtowing to the HD logo that the varation of "hand built" the PR people gave us for CVO did nothing for enhanced effectiveness in assembly.  We simply saw too many mistakes that a modern mechanized/computerized line with appropiate oversight would simply never allow.  It's also simple to see where/how overall cost savings would accrue to the MoCo by bringing production off a small ancillary line an on to the main system.  They won't pass that downhill of course.  But hey, maybe they'll at least not raise things quite as much.  Personally, I'd just be satisfied if the assemblies were significantly less problematic.

[TN]

i can see why a small team would produce consistently quality bikes vs normal assembly line units. but this is still limited to the parts supplied. too many china parts for sure. it's a known fact that they will forge a mtr on a forged piece of steel to meet criteria.



i'd like to meet the engineer who takes credit for the infamous 110" motor.



TN

[Twolanerider]

There seems to be no great hue and cry from the masses here indicting the MoCo for moving assembly from one building to another.  Some care a little.  Some don't.  Not a big whoop either way.  Though it seems everyone would be pleased if excellent QC could simply be assumed no matter what line the bikes fell off of.

That being so I can't help but be more interested in the post starting the thread.  First and so far only post.  At this particular house on this particular topic.  With particular information about where to write to at Harley to complain if you don't like it.

Have to wonder where on the line that is moving this guy might possibly have worked.  I don't care that someone makes a case.  But don't hide behind the veil of some concerned citizen just sharing the worry with the masses.  Stand up.  State your case.  Be heard.  Anything else is just being a whiney brat.

[BLM777]

Agree Don, a rather amazing first and self serving announcement.  Not sure I agree with the "2 is better than 75" worker concept though.  Maybe any extra 73 people, regardless of expertise, could catch some of the many screw ups that are inherent to new CVO's out of the box....

[Twolanerider]

Agree Don, a rather amazing first and self serving announcement.  Not sure I agree with the "2 is better than 75" worker concept though.  Maybe any extra 73 people, regardless of expertise, could catch some of the many screw ups that are inherent to new CVO's out of the box....

Notice:  Joking but entirely sexist comment upcoming.  Only intended as coarse humor.  Please proceed to your regularly scheduled post.


Y'know what Brian?  I think Harley has it all wrong.  It's not the current status of any one line that's the problem.  It's all the lines.  If they want to ramp up sales the staff all the lines with workers with safety glasses, hard hats and bikinis and hire workers appropriate to the attire.  Then webcam the whole thing.  Along with that have the girls occasionally hold up a sign over a bike like "Bob from Phoenix, this one's for you!" 

They'd sell all the could build.

[BLM777]

Notice:  Joking but entirely sexist comment upcoming.  Only intended as coarse humor.  Please proceed to your regularly scheduled post.


Y'know what Brian?  I think Harley has it all wrong.  It's not the current status of any one line that's the problem.  It's all the lines.  If they want to ramp up sales the staff all the lines with workers with safety glasses, hard hats and bikinis and hire workers appropriate to the attire.  Then webcam the whole thing.  Along with that have the girls occasionally hold up a sign over a bike like "Bob from Phoenix, this one's for you!" 

They'd sell all the could build.

I think you hit on a win-win.  Management would love it also.....