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[tg061200]

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Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Twolanerider]

Interesting post to be a very first post from someone.  Can't help but wonder about fifth columns.  Anyway, the notice had already been posted.  Too lazy to type the response again.  So just cutting and pasting the response from the other location.

No matter the ox being gored or who it belonged to with just a moment's time to think I'd imagine most anyone would realize they just don't give a rat's ass.  Or at least not a big one. 

We buy the bike from the company.  Not a specific plant or assembly line.  And we've sure as hell seen assembly errors from the "hand built" methodology that we'd likely not see on a fully computerized line.  The main line has also already been doing low quantity production bikes (Shriner, Fire Fighter, Police, etc) as part of its regular production.  So suggesting the main line would do a lesser job seems a bit specious.

Done on the main line with it's greater automation and faster materials handling the price per unit of a CVO bike will cost the MoCo less.  If this is true that's the driving force.  CVO is (or at least used to be) part of P&A rather than new bike sales.  So there may be some political wrangling between the divisions.  But out here on the street I only care that they got the damn bike out the door in good shape and properly done.  Could care less how it got there or off which (domestic) line.

[Gone Fishin']

Same in this thread: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=38257.0

Ride safely,
Louis

[nidan]

Another victim of corporate america and the cost reduction mentality .

I appreciate the limited team build approach, but I don't believe that the management would change thier mind even if we all wrote letters.  I face the same problem where I've worked 25 years .  The customers have complained , management is only concerned with bottom line and profitability.

[skreminegul07]

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Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I believe that some of the quality issues that I had with mine would not have occurred in a more standard production line where a part install process is done over and over by the same worker.  You become an expert on a few processes rather than a master of none.
I'm talking missing bolts, pinched wires, etc.

[miker]

Phil,  I think most of the line workers are pros at pinched wires and loose bolt installation and general apathy. 

The QA/QC receiving corps for outsourced parts assemblies are even better a screwing the pooch.
Glad to see HD ain't changed in all the years its been around.

[PR3VS56]

I can only say that my standard FLTR was built solid.  I haven't found one item out of place -- and I've been over the bike with a fine tooth comb. 

I always thought it was pretty cool that CVO's were hand built by a few.  But if Harley has qc up on the standard line, maybe there's no need.  Very sorry for the guys who lost their jobs.

[VAZHOG]

That being said (Quality wise) is the main reason Honda pulled the Motorcycle production out of Ohio and back to Japan.

I doubt putting the cvo line in gereral production line will decrease it cost to the customer-It is a business plan to make a profit and if you can cut production cost and still make the original cost +10% that makes the share holders happy.

Having owned one & seen the CVO line being produced made owning one worth while- I had zero quality issue's but I also had no quality issue's on my 01 ultra regular production bike either. Harley has to make some real tuff changes being owned by share holders and it wouldn't surprise me to see them go Private.

[grc]

 I love how everyone bandies about that "hand built" tag.  These bikes don't come close to my definition of hand built.  The frames, engines, and all the component parts are processed the same way as any others.  The CVO's just go through final assembly in a different environment, which adds cost and eliminates many of the safeguards that exist on the real assembly lines.  One example from my experience in autos:  the production line in the plant where I last worked was equipped with very sophisticated tooling that verified installation torque of critical fasteners on every individual vehicle.  Rather than the old fashioned compressed air tools that could vary based on operator errors or air pressure variations or just plain old tool wear, all critical operations had DC electric tools with built in transducers that gave immediate feedback to the centralized computer system.  Dynamic torque as well as rotation and angle were recorded for each fastener, and any that failed to meet specifications would result in a rejection notice (alarm).  The system was tied into the actual assembly line, and if the offending fastener wasn't repaired prior to the next checkpoint on the line, the entire line would shut down until a repair was made and bought off in the system.  Now this as you may well imagine is a very expensive system, and isn't something that could easily be applied to smaller off-line operations.  So those off-line operations made do with the old fashioned tooling, or even battery operated screw shooters.  Talk about loose parts, turn somebody loose with a half charged battery screw shooter.

I for one couldn't care less about the so-called exclusivity of a "hand built"  and "custom" motorcycle.  I just want it to work properly and stay in one piece, without all the drama that seems to follow the CVO bikes.  If having these accessorized but definitely not custom or hand built bikes assembled on the real assembly line results in better quality for the customer, then by all means I support the change even if the crooks at the MoCo don't pass along the cost savings.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

I for one couldn't care less about the so-called exclusivity of a "hand built"  and "custom" motorcycle.  I just want it to work properly and stay in one piece, without all the drama that seems to follow the CVO bikes.  If having these accessorized but definitely not custom or hand built bikes assembled on the real assembly line results in better quality for the customer, then by all means I support the change even if the crooks at the MoCo don't pass along the cost savings.

Jerry

This is something that has come up before.  Can remember it discussed two or three years ago.  It was obvious to anyone not kowtowing to the HD logo that the varation of "hand built" the PR people gave us for CVO did nothing for enhanced effectiveness in assembly.  We simply saw too many mistakes that a modern mechanized/computerized line with appropiate oversight would simply never allow.  It's also simple to see where/how overall cost savings would accrue to the MoCo by bringing production off a small ancillary line an on to the main system.  They won't pass that downhill of course.  But hey, maybe they'll at least not raise things quite as much.  Personally, I'd just be satisfied if the assemblies were significantly less problematic.

[TN]

i can see why a small team would produce consistently quality bikes vs normal assembly line units. but this is still limited to the parts supplied. too many china parts for sure. it's a known fact that they will forge a mtr on a forged piece of steel to meet criteria.



i'd like to meet the engineer who takes credit for the infamous 110" motor.



TN

[Twolanerider]

There seems to be no great hue and cry from the masses here indicting the MoCo for moving assembly from one building to another.  Some care a little.  Some don't.  Not a big whoop either way.  Though it seems everyone would be pleased if excellent QC could simply be assumed no matter what line the bikes fell off of.

That being so I can't help but be more interested in the post starting the thread.  First and so far only post.  At this particular house on this particular topic.  With particular information about where to write to at Harley to complain if you don't like it.

Have to wonder where on the line that is moving this guy might possibly have worked.  I don't care that someone makes a case.  But don't hide behind the veil of some concerned citizen just sharing the worry with the masses.  Stand up.  State your case.  Be heard.  Anything else is just being a whiney brat.

[BLM777]

Agree Don, a rather amazing first and self serving announcement.  Not sure I agree with the "2 is better than 75" worker concept though.  Maybe any extra 73 people, regardless of expertise, could catch some of the many screw ups that are inherent to new CVO's out of the box....

[Twolanerider]

Agree Don, a rather amazing first and self serving announcement.  Not sure I agree with the "2 is better than 75" worker concept though.  Maybe any extra 73 people, regardless of expertise, could catch some of the many screw ups that are inherent to new CVO's out of the box....

Notice:  Joking but entirely sexist comment upcoming.  Only intended as coarse humor.  Please proceed to your regularly scheduled post.


Y'know what Brian?  I think Harley has it all wrong.  It's not the current status of any one line that's the problem.  It's all the lines.  If they want to ramp up sales the staff all the lines with workers with safety glasses, hard hats and bikinis and hire workers appropriate to the attire.  Then webcam the whole thing.  Along with that have the girls occasionally hold up a sign over a bike like "Bob from Phoenix, this one's for you!" 

They'd sell all the could build.

[BLM777]

Notice:  Joking but entirely sexist comment upcoming.  Only intended as coarse humor.  Please proceed to your regularly scheduled post.


Y'know what Brian?  I think Harley has it all wrong.  It's not the current status of any one line that's the problem.  It's all the lines.  If they want to ramp up sales the staff all the lines with workers with safety glasses, hard hats and bikinis and hire workers appropriate to the attire.  Then webcam the whole thing.  Along with that have the girls occasionally hold up a sign over a bike like "Bob from Phoenix, this one's for you!" 

They'd sell all the could build.

I think you hit on a win-win.  Management would love it also.....

[05Ultra]

So what exactly makes a CVO a CVO if its not the fact that they're hand built one at a time?
 The paint? You can order all kinds of paint schemes now from the factory.
The motor? You can get that done too.
Chrome? Can get that.
So what is it? For you anyway.
Should I have started another thread?

[Twolanerider]

So what exactly makes a CVO a CVO if its not the fact that they're hand built one at a time?
 The paint? You can order all kinds of paint schemes now from the factory.
The motor? You can get that done too.
Chrome? Can get that.
So what is it? For you anyway.
Should I have started another thread?

It is simply a designation that is recognizable hung on a collection of parts different enough to be recognizable (that they know they can get people to extra for).  A Fire bike or a Cop bike or some military honorary model are what they are for what they are; not because of which line they came off of.  Why is ours any different?  If ours were CVO bikes only because of the separate line in the old un-air conditioned building at York then all the CVO models produced at Kansas City weren't CVO bikes either.

[PR3VS56]

I don't have one, but almost did.  To me it was/is about a special bike that Harley designed & built.  THEIR version of a factory hot rod.  That's cool enough.

CVO to Harley is what AMG is to Mercedes and what the M Series is to BMW.  I think they should/could have done better on the performance side though.  Not to offend, but I just think they could have done better.  My expectation anyway.  On the design side they WOW you!  

[grc]

......................
CVO to Harley is what AMG is to Mercedes and what the M Series is to BMW.  I think they should/could have done better on the performance side though.  Not to offend, but I just think they could have done better.  My expectation anyway.  On the design side they WOW you!  

I hope a bunch of German's don't find your address and come over to beat you with a schnitzel.  No offense, but that is about the most ridiculous comparison I've seen yet for the CVO.  AMG, the M series, even Ford's SVO/SVT which was the inspiration for CVO, all have significant handling and power improvements over the lesser models.  CVO's get the same limp handling, the same brakes, an engine that is a step backward from the previous version, a bunch of Chinese chrome appearance items, several accessories that cause more grief than anything else (think heated handgrips, for instance), and poor quality.  I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes and BMW didn't sue you.

Jerry 

[Boss Man]

I'm glad I'm not the only CVO owner who isn't as satisfied as they should be after spending $34K on a "custom" bike. I rate my satisfaction with my 09 CUSE4 as neutral... not particularly satisfied or dissatisfied.

I had considered two options prior to spending the cash on a CVO. Buy an older model Ultra, tear it down and build a real custom bagger or buy a CVO. If I had it to do all over again I would build my own. I figure the cost would be about the same but I would have a real custom bagger not a collection of HD accessories added to a stock FLHT.   

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone but the truth is the MoCo doesn't build a custom bike at all. The CVO bikes are really value added bikes by virtue of the additional accessories. I doubt you could buy a stock FLHT, add the CVO accessories and be under the CVO price.   

Like all of us I made the decision to buy a CVO and I make the best of it. They are real nice bikes for sure but hanging a custom name on them is going a bit too far. If MoCo wants to call the them custom they can begin by asking the people who own them what they can do to make them more of a custom bike. I'll take some bets on that one! 

[PR3VS56]

I hope a bunch of German's don't find your address and come over to beat you with a schnitzel.  No offense, but that is about the most ridiculous comparison I've seen yet for the CVO.  AMG, the M series, even Ford's SVO/SVT which was the inspiration for CVO, all have significant handling and power improvements over the lesser models.  CVO's get the same limp handling, the same brakes, an engine that is a step backward from the previous version, a bunch of Chinese chrome appearance items, several accessories that cause more grief than anything else (think heated handgrips, for instance), and poor quality.  I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes and BMW didn't sue you.

Jerry  

I'm with you!!!!  My post was poorly worded.  I was walking on eggshells a bit, not wanting to offend.  After all.... this IS a CVO site, and I don't ride one.  You know it's like your wife can say she's fat but you can't.  

To the point, my wording, "that's what I expected", translate that's what I think Harley should make CVO.  An overall performance AND chrome do-dads bike.  

They definitely DID make an effort at adding performance!  With exception of the very early models (correct me here), CVO's have always had a larger displacement engine.  To my way of looking at things, that gives the buyer the impression that a CVO is a PERFORMANCE bike (and it's billed as such from the sales force).  But it's far from their greatest effort in that department.  CVO's would really be something if they upgraded brakes, suspension, and engine.  THEN, yes, they would (as they should be) be to Harley what AMG and M are to Benz & BMW.  Had they been, I'd probably be riding one. 

[bbrown]

I'm glad I'm not the only CVO owner who isn't as satisfied as they should be after spending $34K on a "custom" bike. I rate my satisfaction with my 09 CUSE4 as neutral... not particularly satisfied or dissatisfied.

I had considered two options prior to spending the cash on a CVO. Buy an older model Ultra, tear it down and build a real custom bagger or buy a CVO. If I had it to do all over again I would build my own. I figure the cost would be about the same but I would have a real custom bagger not a collection of HD accessories added to a stock FLHT.   

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone but the truth is the MoCo doesn't build a custom bike at all. The CVO bikes are really value added bikes by virtue of the additional accessories. I doubt you could buy a stock FLHT, add the CVO accessories and be under the CVO price.   

Like all of us I made the decision to buy a CVO and I make the best of it. They are real nice bikes for sure but hanging a custom name on them is going a bit too far. If MoCo wants to call the them custom they can begin by asking the people who own them what they can do to make them more of a custom bike. I'll take some bets on that one! 

Well said   All Ican say is I am glad I own my 04 SEEG an cosider it a CVO

[49445CVO]

I could not have said that one better either......HELLO MOCO!!!!!!!! ARE YOU THERE????WE CARE, DO YOU?

[TN]

Notice:  Joking but entirely sexist comment upcoming.  Only intended as coarse humor.  Please proceed to your regularly scheduled post.


Y'know what Brian?  I think Harley has it all wrong.  It's not the current status of any one line that's the problem.  It's all the lines.  If they want to ramp up sales the staff all the lines with workers with safety glasses, hard hats and bikinis and hire workers appropriate to the attire.  Then webcam the whole thing.  Along with that have the girls occasionally hold up a sign over a bike like "Bob from Phoenix, this one's for you!" 

They'd sell all the could build.

thats some funny chit. but guess what, it'd work!!
refer back to this post when it becomes a reality.


TN

[Twolanerider]

I hope a bunch of German's don't find your address and come over to beat you with a schnitzel. 

Yummm.  Schnitzel .

[casper]

I think the performance is severly hampered by the EPA, however if you do the right things to your bike like tuner, a/c and exhaust work you will be pleased. However many are too cheap to spend the money on the DYNO, because you cant see it like flashey chrome, I did mine from day one and dont have any complaints about heat or many other issues like a lot of others. However the Valve noise concerns me but no real problem so far. I priced building a 110 or 113 on a regular Ultra, was at 33K, and didn't have the chrome front end, wheels, anti lock brakes, GPS, I know its not the best, but I dont need something hanging on my handlebars looking nerdy either, heated grips, heated seats, garage door opener, cover,  and anything else I forgot.

I know I enjoy it and may have spent too much on it but I am Happy with it, and it dont make any sense to complain here and guess what all that are built are SOLD.

Go Ahead blast me

[grc]

I think the performance is severly hampered by the EPA, however if you do the right things to your bike like tuner, a/c and exhaust work you will be pleased. However many are too cheap to spend the money on the DYNO, because you cant see it like flashey chrome, I did mine from day one and dont have any complaints about heat or many other issues like a lot of others. However the Valve noise concerns me but no real problem so far. I priced building a 110 or 113 on a regular Ultra, was at 33K, and didn't have the chrome front end, wheels, anti lock brakes, GPS, I know its not the best, but I dont need something hanging on my handlebars looking nerdy either, heated grips, heated seats, garage door opener, cover,  and anything else I forgot.

I know I enjoy it and may have spent too much on it but I am Happy with it, and it dont make any sense to complain here and guess what all that are built are SOLD.

Go Ahead blast me

Casper, the EPA doesn't build motorcycles (or any other vehicle).  Honda manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate, BMW manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate, Briggs & Stratton manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate (lawnmowers, etc. also have to meet emission rules now), the auto industry can sell you 600 plus horsepower that is EPA legal, but Harley-Davidson can't give you more than 80 horsepower for your $35k and it runs like crap, overheats, and requires you the owner to violate the law and tamper with the emission system in order to make it run right and last for a decent amount of time.  I personally get real tired of folks blaming it all on the EPA.  Put the blame exactly where it belongs, on the MoCo.

BTW, your answer is to trash the emission system.  What happens when states start requiring annual emission testing like California has proposed?  Do you move to another state?  Or do you pay to put the bike back to stock for the test, then pay to switch it back, then pay again in another year to put it back to stock, etc.?  The real answer is for the folks taking your $35k to build a bike that doesn't require breaking the law and investing thousands of dollars just to make it run decently.  Oh, and while they're at it, they could try making all the other parts reliable as well.

Jerry

[Boss Man]

I think the performance is severly hampered by the EPA, however if you do the right things to your bike like tuner, a/c and exhaust work you will be pleased. However many are too cheap to spend the money on the DYNO, because you cant see it like flashey chrome, I did mine from day one and dont have any complaints about heat or many other issues like a lot of others. However the Valve noise concerns me but no real problem so far. I priced building a 110 or 113 on a regular Ultra, was at 33K, and didn't have the chrome front end, wheels, anti lock brakes, GPS, I know its not the best, but I dont need something hanging on my handlebars looking nerdy either, heated grips, heated seats, garage door opener, cover,  and anything else I forgot.

I know I enjoy it and may have spent too much on it but I am Happy with it, and it dont make any sense to complain here and guess what all that are built are SOLD.

Go Ahead blast me

Another MoCo Kool Aid drinker!

[Zekester]

Don't mean to offend anyone, but....

Sounds like we'll be seein' some of you on what - a Jap cruiser bike? A Beemer?  Look, I agree these are not "performance" bikes, (go get a H'Busa), not "custom" (OCC will build you one for $150k), and they are not "perfect". BUT, they DO perform better that their stock sibling, and they are more "customized" than their stock sibling. In fact, that IS what CVO's are all about - Inspiration for someone with a basic model. Every part on your CVO is available through HD to anyone.

Regarding quality: We all want and expect better quality. But I have to say, fit and finish and quality of materials is superior on a CVO as compared to their stock siblings.

Regarding performance: If we were ready to accept a  liquid cooled .....

So, ride it and enjoy it for what it is. Don't like it anymore, try a Vespa or something!

Just my .02   Zeke

[Harleypingman]

This information was posted on HDF:


"Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks"

Here's the link:

http://hdforums.com/forum/screamin-eagle-cvo-models/360593-cvo-no-longer-to-be-seperate-operation.html

Of course, I can't vouch for the accuracy of what's reported.  If it's been posted elsewhere previously, apologies for duplicating it.

[Twolanerider]

But I have to say, fit and finish and quality of materials is superior on a CVO as compared to their stock siblings.

This community's history suggests otherwise.  System paint issues some years that didn't exist in the non-CVO cohort.  Two years worth of systemic engine issues that didn't exist there either.  All that along with relatively common assembly fit and finish errors that do seem less common on bikes from the standard lines.  I'd love (or hate, depending on your perspective) to see percentage of fleet warranty specs for CVO versus the "standard" fleet.  Our own internal history suggests we're more than a bit above the baseline.

[Trey767]

I'm really sad to here that, do you think there is going to be lack of QC?

[skreminegul07]

Don't mean to offend anyone, but....

Sounds like we'll be seein' some of you on what - a Jap cruiser bike? A Beemer?  Look, I agree these are not "performance" bikes, (go get a H'Busa), not "custom" (OCC will build you one for $150k), and they are not "perfect". BUT, they DO perform better that their stock sibling, and they are more "customized" than their stock sibling. In fact, that IS what CVO's are all about - Inspiration for someone with a basic model. Every part on your CVO is available through HD to anyone.

Regarding quality: We all want and expect better quality. But I have to say, fit and finish and quality of materials is superior on a CVO as compared to their stock siblings.

Regarding performance: If we were ready to accept a  liquid cooled .....

So, ride it and enjoy it for what it is. Don't like it anymore, try a Vespa or something!

Just my .02   Zeke

Not true.  You as a CVO owner cannot even buy painted parts without returning or proving theft, etc.

As I quickly learned, having a factory custom with production in the thousands is actually the opposite.  Because it is a "package", in reality you own the most duplicated bike.  Very few changes are made to a CVO, so nobody else even looks at them after they have seen their first one.  I've been to breakfast where there were three blue SERKs like I had.  It negates the whole idea to have a custom if they are all identical.  That's my opinion of course.

[BigLew55]

It negates the whole idea to have a custom if they are all identical.  That's my opinion of course.

Try riding up on a black FLHX with Reinharts!!! 

[napalm]

I was at Williamsport, Maryland Bike Night this past Saturday...guess what...there were three 2008 CVO Ultras there in the Anniverary color!!!!  Three in this little Burg and the only built 1800!!

When you see a CVO Bike, really only CVO Owners tend to look at them and realize they are different than the stock scoots coming off the assemby line.

napalm

[Twolanerider]

When you see a CVO Bike, really only CVO Owners tend to look at them and realize they are different than the stock scoots coming off the assemby line.

napalm

Especially the last few years as the CVO paint schemes haven't been that much more dramatic than some of the stock two offerings.  With some models past the CVO paint schemes have been a more significant departure from base OE offerings.  They got noticed more when they were the new kids on the block.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Especially the last few years as the CVO paint schemes haven't been that much more dramatic than some of the stock two offerings.  With some models past the CVO paint schemes have been a more significant departure from base OE offerings.  They got noticed more when they were the new kids on the block.

Yes, like my new Orange/Black '09 SERG.....

Hi Don, I did it and now I've got a new '09 SERG.  The '08 SERK Annie was a great bike and as you know, I only had the old '76 FLH shovelhead as a comparison, so the SERK was a miracle in engineering compared to the old bike.  Now that I've been used to the '08 touring chassis, the '09 touring chassis is much firmer and seems to be smoother too.  I love the fixed fairing a lot.  I'm glad I bit the bullet and did it now.  In another couple weeks my trade would have been worth a lot less.  I ended up getting just about $24k out of it on trade and they discounted the new SERG to boot.  Good deal in my mind.

I got lots of looks this past weekend, even when I left the dealership with the wife on the back.  All the guys seemed to know about the bike and were jaw dropping over it.

I'm enjoying it so far very much.

My wife didn't like it as a SERG nor did she like the O/B, the Silver/Grey would have been her choice.  She'll get over it someday.

Ride on.....

    

[Twolanerider]

Yes, like my new Orange/Black '09 SERG.....

Hi Don, I did it and now I've got a new '09 SERG.  The '08 SERK Annie was a great bike and as you know, I only had the old '76 FLH shovelhead as a comparison, so the SERK was a miracle in engineering compared to the old bike.  Now that I've been used to the '08 touring chassis, the '09 touring chassis is much firmer and seems to be smoother too.  I love the fixed fairing a lot.  I'm glad I bit the bullet and did it now.  In another couple weeks my trade would have been worth a lot less.  I ended up getting just about $24k out of it on trade and they discounted the new SERG to boot.  Good deal in my mind.

I got lots of looks this past weekend, even when I left the dealership with the wife on the back.  All the guys seemed to know about the bike and were jaw dropping over it.

I'm enjoying it so far very much.

My wife didn't like it as a SERG nor did she like the O/B, the Silver/Grey would have been her choice.  She'll get over it someday.

Ride on.....

    

Have enjoyed watching your comments as the migration to the new SERG has taken place.  Even the old SERGs are nice bikes to ride.  The fixed fairing on the new chassis has to be a fun combination.  Keep having fun .

[spydglide]

Many people see my B/B '04 SEEG and say:  Nice custom paint, who did it?  or Nice customized Harley, did you do it?  My pat answer is: It's all Harley 'custom' from the factory.  This is after years of riding customized choppers and questions about who did what and where'd you get that?  So......I consider it a 'factory custom' and it's as nicely done as most if not better and for much less $$$.  JMHO.  spyder

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Having purchased a CVO and seeing some flaws I would not expect of a "hand built" motorcycle, I say put it on the assembly line like the rest.

[bbrown]

Many people see my B/B '04 SEEG and say:  Nice custom paint, who did it?  or Nice customized Harley, did you do it?  My pat answer is: It's all Harley 'custom' from the factory.  This is after years of riding customized choppers and questions about who did what and where'd you get that?  So......I consider it a 'factory custom' and it's as nicely done as most if not better and for much less $$$.  JMHO.  spyder

You are dead on accurate.  I have experienced the same thing...  Even here in Sturgis this week

[MD-Dave]

You are dead on accurate.  I have experienced the same thing...  Even here in Sturgis this week

Same thing here.  I had another rider at a rest stop tell me that he never liked the Road Glides but he really liked what I did with mine.  You should have seen the look on his face when I told him that is how it came.  I don't think he really believed me.   

[doubledown]

Casper, the EPA doesn't build motorcycles (or any other vehicle).  Honda manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate, BMW manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate, Briggs & Stratton manages to build engines that run great right out of the crate (lawnmowers, etc. also have to meet emission rules now), the auto industry can sell you 600 plus horsepower that is EPA legal, but Harley-Davidson can't give you more than 80 horsepower for your $35k and it runs like crap, overheats, and requires you the owner to violate the law and tamper with the emission system in order to make it run right and last for a decent amount of time.  I personally get real tired of folks blaming it all on the EPA.  Put the blame exactly where it belongs, on the MoCo.

BTW, your answer is to trash the emission system.  What happens when states start requiring annual emission testing like California has proposed?  Do you move to another state?  Or do you pay to put the bike back to stock for the test, then pay to switch it back, then pay again in another year to put it back to stock, etc.?  The real answer is for the folks taking your $35k to build a bike that doesn't require breaking the law and investing thousands of dollars just to make it run decently.  Oh, and while they're at it, they could try making all the other parts reliable as well.

Jerry

All the engines you listed are water cooled.None are air cooled v-twins, Porsche had to make the jump in the mid 90s to meet emissions.

[09S/E roadglide]

well here we go again.....opinions are like butt holes  ! I love my bike, and the people that know what she is appreciate her and those that dont do also. I didnt buy it for anyone else  but me and Im happy ! If you dont like yours sell it and buy a Honda.

[Harleyrider_49]

Well.....just cruise'n through the site ,since I'm new here, and ran accross these posts.....in response to "Zekester"s quote "all parts are available to everyone"......gotta differ with you on that one ....alot of SE parts;medallions ;hardware , etc are VIN # SPECIFIC! in other words....some things you CAN'T buy without an SE Vin#....brother-in-law found that out the hard way with an 07 Ultra....made a lot'o mods, 113 kit , the whole works, tried trade'n as a Scream"n Eagle to several dealers for a newer CVO bike ....rude awakening!!  which I personally think is good that they won't sell certain things to non CVO owners, otherwise , everybody'd be trying to clone bikes and pass them off as CVO's  You can't even buy the "CVO" dust cover without a vin # for a CVO...........

[napalm]

I have an '08 SEUC...tried to order a fuel door off an '09 that has the CVO logo....guess what...ain't goning to happen.  Tried two different dealerships, could not order it with out a '09 vin number and a returned part.

Assembling the CVOs on the standard production line may in fact improve quality.

napalm

[chesterc]

I think it would be better too,   I bet if the regular models were experiencing some of these issues with chrome peeling, over-heating of certain models and all the other issues associated towards the cvo line-up.  Kinda make ya think with the limited numbers it's not that big a deal to harley, I bet they would correct the Quality issues if it was on their normal production line when they started having 1000's of claims a day from their higher produced bikes. Not knocking the 1 person building a bike thing, but their are definatley issues in their quality management, I know I would have been fired from my Quality/trouble-shooting/QC job a long time ago if I had sent products out over and over and with these issues.  Just dreading the thought of all the issues with the 09SE road-glide,is the only reason I haven't bought the one on the dealer floor, 30 grand and then  hope and pray it stays together.

[Fired00d]

I think it would be better too,   I bet if the regular models were experiencing some of these issues with chrome peeling, over-heating of certain models and all the other issues associated towards the cvo line-up.  Kinda make ya think with the limited numbers it's not that big a deal to harley, I bet they would correct the Quality issues if it was on their normal production line when they started having 1000's of claims a day from their higher produced bikes. Not knocking the 1 person building a bike thing, but their are definatley issues in their quality management, I know I would have been fired from my Quality/trouble-shooting/QC job a long time ago if I had sent products out over and over and with these issues.  Just dreading the thought of all the issues with the 09SE road-glide,is the only reason I haven't bought the one on the dealer floor, 30 grand and then  hope and pray it stays together.

Just wondering if the issues we are experiencing in regards to chrome peeling doesn't already exist and not as widespread since they aren't stock on other models. All the extra chrome we get on our bikes comes straight from the MoCo's P&A Catalog and when you add these to a regular model bike what is (if there is any) warranty? Off hand I'm thinking 30 days - year at the max. I'm not sure if a different group of people putting the bikes together is going to change the quality or lack of quality of the parts they are putting together.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[sixstringer99]

I come from the aerospace industry being a professional metallurgist.  From my experience it is possible that hand built items can be of vastly superior in quality like a hand built musical instrument.  But there is also a good possibility that the item, vehicle, or gadget can be of lesser quality by a single person as well depending on their capability and ultimate desire for perfection.  Just being hand built by one or two people doesn't guaranty quality.

Ironically most commercial aerospace companies these days are building the planes and structures according to the Toyota Production System (TPS).  We are now manufacturing a higher quality and more uniform product.  Believe me, big commercial aircraft are hand built by people.  It's the workmanship qualification of the technicians and mechanics and their adherence to process and quality that keep these big planes up in the air.  So what I am saying is that it is easily possible to have a larger group of people put together a high quality product like a motorcycle if the production is set up properly.

[PR3VS56]

Good to know there's always a human factor.

[hogwild11]

Well, I must admit that this deception worked.  I have a 2011 CUSE6 and I purchased it under the impression that is was built by a "dedicated few", not a normal assembly line..., and that's why (I was told) it costs so much more.  With an automotive background, I know each scenario has its pros and cons, however, I would have preferred knowing this up front. 

[Twolanerider]

Well, I must admit that this deception worked.  I have a 2011 CUSE6 and I purchased it under the impression that is was built by a "dedicated few", not a normal assembly line..., and that's why (I was told) it costs so much more.  With an automotive background, I know each scenario has its pros and cons, however, I would have preferred knowing this up front. 

Didn't know that the dealerships were still regularly spinning the "hand built" mantra.  Since the sales staffs often don't know beans about the current details of the products they could be just that far behind the curve.  Or it might just sound good to help make the sale....

[grc]

I come from the aerospace industry being a professional metallurgist.  From my experience it is possible that hand built items can be of vastly superior in quality like a hand built musical instrument.  But there is also a good possibility that the item, vehicle, or gadget can be of lesser quality by a single person as well depending on their capability and ultimate desire for perfection.  Just being hand built by one or two people doesn't guaranty quality.

Ironically most commercial aerospace companies these days are building the planes and structures according to the Toyota Production System (TPS).  We are now manufacturing a higher quality and more uniform product.  Believe me, big commercial aircraft are hand built by people.  It's the workmanship qualification of the technicians and mechanics and their adherence to process and quality that keep these big planes up in the air.  So what I am saying is that it is easily possible to have a larger group of people put together a high quality product like a motorcycle if the production is set up properly.

    Having a couple of the boss's favorites bolting and screwing on (up?) stuff somewhere in a converted hallway instead of on a purpose built assembly line definitely does NOT ensure quality.  Those of us with the older versions can attest to the fact that many of those supposedly hand built bikes were poorly assembled, with poorly fit components and all sorts of loose fasteners among the many problems right out of the crate.

Much of what makes current Harley's so poor in overall quality isn't related to how they are assembled, it's more about the poor quality of the cheapened designs and component parts.  Can't blame the guy on the assembly line for the crappy paint from that outside vendor, or the cheapened parts in the engines, or any of those fine pieces of Chinese chrome that flake before your eyes.

While much of the rest of the world has adopted the TPS, Harley seems to be sticking with their production system, the POS.  People with no knowledge of how a vehicle manufacturing plant works like to blame everything on the folks screwing the stuff together.  Those of us who have spent decades in similar industries know better.  Management is the key, and Harley has proved time and again that they don't measure up.  So don't worry about where your bike was screwed together, worry about the management decisions that compromise customer satisfaction and reliability, or worry about how those same manager's constantly try to avoid paying for their bad decisions by shifting the burden onto the customers and employee's.


Jerry