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[KODAGRIN]

I'm proud to say I'm doing my part to keep MOCO afloat!  New SEUC in Dec and haven't stopped spending yet...now I'm working to keep the component facilities open with my accessory purchases...

But, I have to agree:  MOCO isn't very good at showing it's appreciation to their loyal customers.  My experience with dealers in my area hasn't been much better than it would have been if I'd have rolled in their store on a metric bike...once you roll out on your new scooter, you're on your own unless they can find a way to charge you when you come back in.

\

Well, even though it seems we should get more out of the dealer and the MoCo, the experience has been much better than  what I received after spending $75k with MasterCraft Boats and the dealer I've known personally for several years---zilch, no contact, no help in making it easier to get boat serviced or winterized with any kind of convenience at all.  At least my Harley dealer will come pick up my bike if I need them to.

[yellowhog]

I've been watching this post since it started and at the risk of making some of you angry, I feel that I just have to post a comment.
When I first read the article, I just had to laugh.  The first thing that popped into my head was that this was just a typical bull_ _ _ _  way of getting the slaves...er, I mean "workers", via their respective unions, to agree to wage concessions.  "Costs" are too high so the first thing that we look at is worker's wages.  I'm sure that Harley's financial troubles don't have a single thing to do with overpriced products or way too many models to choose from, very few of them actually fitting the riders that buy them.  Where else can you spend $20,000 or more on a product and then have to spend another $1000 or more making it "fit" you?  Where else can you produce products with your name all over it and get the people to actually pay you to advertise for you?  In my mind, I can see right through this crap.  If Harley couldn't see this recession (that's what the government calls it, it's actually a depression...just ask anyone who has lost their homes, jobs and everything else they worked their whole lives for) coming, then who's really to blame for their financial woes?  Did they fall asleep and not realize that boom times can't and won't last forever?
I had to laugh because Harley's statement that they may have to relocate reminded me of tactics our government uses all the time.  When they've wasted all the money, the first thing they cut is education and senior services, because those are things that people will be the most upset about.  They never talk about cutting the waste (although maybe there really is none, right?).  Harley is using the same ploy.  Gee, NO ONE wants to see Harley move out of Milwaukee...it's a tradition.  So maybe they can get the workers to give a little more blood and maybe they can get the taxpayers to dig a little deeper because, after all, it's really not Harley's fault is it?  I wonder if any of their executives are losing their homes or shopping at Aldi's?

The truth of the matter is that if you make a good product and sell it at a fair price, people will buy it.  Your profits may suffer a little in bad times, but you will have a loyal customer base to sustain you...and you should be prepared for those times because they don’t happen overnight and if you want to stay in business you have to keep an eye on stuff like that.  Harley should know this better than anyone.  They've been through this more than once.  Maybe by changing their bikes EVERY YEAR trying to attract the yuppies and such they've alienated their core customers, or maybe they just got greedy and prices themselves out of reach of too many customers.  Anyway, in closing, my opinion is let 'em leave...if that's what they really want.

[grc]

I've been watching this post since it started and at the risk of making some of you angry, I feel that I just have to post a comment.
When I first read the article, I just had to laugh.  The first thing that popped into my head was that this was just a typical bull_ _ _ _  way of getting the slaves...er, I mean "workers", via their respective unions, to agree to wage concessions.  "Costs" are too high so the first thing that we look at is worker's wages.  I'm sure that Harley's financial troubles don't have a single thing to do with overpriced products or way too many models to choose from, very few of them actually fitting the riders that buy them.  Where else can you spend $20,000 or more on a product and then have to spend another $1000 or more making it "fit" you?  Where else can you produce products with your name all over it and get the people to actually pay you to advertise for you?  In my mind, I can see right through this crap.  If Harley couldn't see this recession (that's what the government calls it, it's actually a depression...just ask anyone who has lost their homes, jobs and everything else they worked their whole lives for) coming, then who's really to blame for their financial woes?  Did they fall asleep and not realize that boom times can't and won't last forever?
I had to laugh because Harley's statement that they may have to relocate reminded me of tactics our government uses all the time.  When they've wasted all the money, the first thing they cut is education and senior services, because those are things that people will be the most upset about.  They never talk about cutting the waste (although maybe there really is none, right?).  Harley is using the same ploy.  Gee, NO ONE wants to see Harley move out of Milwaukee...it's a tradition.  So maybe they can get the workers to give a little more blood and maybe they can get the taxpayers to dig a little deeper because, after all, it's really not Harley's fault is it?  I wonder if any of their executives are losing their homes or shopping at Aldi's?

The truth of the matter is that if you make a good product and sell it at a fair price, people will buy it.  Your profits may suffer a little in bad times, but you will have a loyal customer base to sustain you...and you should be prepared for those times because they don’t happen overnight and if you want to stay in business you have to keep an eye on stuff like that.  Harley should know this better than anyone.  They've been through this more than once.  Maybe by changing their bikes EVERY YEAR trying to attract the yuppies and such they've alienated their core customers, or maybe they just got greedy and prices themselves out of reach of too many customers.  Anyway, in closing, my opinion is let 'em leave...if that's what they really want.

One part of the entire thing that I don't see mentioned by the MoCo mismanagement team is just who is responsible in a modern corporation for making certain the company is properly positioned and financed, to not only weather an inevitable economic downturn, but to do the forward planning on products and facilities necessary to remain viable.  I may not be a CEO type, or a Harvard educated economist, but I do believe I can answer that question.  It is NOT the hourly workforce or the low level salaried grunts who have that responsibility, it's the greedy jerks in the executive suites and the boardroom.  And yet 99.9% of the sacrifice is always forced on those who have absolutely no control over those issues.  The folks who just took all that money over the years but didn't do their jobs continue to get the big pay packages or big retirement packages, and at worst might lose some incentive payments based on current financials.  I seriously doubt any of those folks will be shopping at Aldi's or WalMart in either the near or distant future, or be living in an old car or a tent in a park.  In the meantime, those who just did the real work of the corporation are given no-win choices like give up the pay and benefit improvements they've busted their butt for over the years, accept work rule changes that increase their workload and throw out any gains made to improve quality of life, or see their job shipped to Mexico, India, China, or maybe down to some southern farm community where at least initially the people will be willing to work for less pay, less benefits, and with no union representation (otherwise known as the Japan Inc. method).  Those things might keep the stockholders happy for awhile, at least long enough for the current mismanagers to sock away their fortunes before the final crash, but they won't fix the real causes of the problem.  I don't care if you have free slave labor in your factories, if you don't make a quality product that large numbers of people want, at a price they can afford, your cheap labor won't have any work to perform either.


Jerry

[yellowhog]

Very well said...

[tennisman]

INEVITABLE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN

Key words...especially in a unnecessary product like motorcycles - bikes are not one of the items under the big three: food, clothing, and shelter.  So they, like fancy golf clubs, fishing boats, and other "luxury" items will suffer more when the belt gets tightened.  What HD is doing is what ANY business has to do - so if you work there, expect it.  Life isn't fair and ya gotta take what you get, overcome adversity, and survive.  Belly-aching and finger-pointing is wasted effort.

My opinion.

T-man

[gordy]

Go ahead and leave, it will be the last Harley I will have to buy.  A Beemer in the garage?

[sadunbar]

Go ahead and leave, it will be the last Harley I will have to buy.  A Beemer in the garage?

I'm holding out for a Ducati bagger!!   

[CVORick]

Go ahead and leave, it will be the last Harley I will have to buy.  A Beemer in the garage?

A nice Concept Six Touring model...

[HD Rider]

Hate to see this happen, but the way it looks, this warning is not good.  Other companies that have sent warnings like this have ended up getting concessions, tax breaks, etc. and ended up leaving anyway.  I hope the company can find a position of stability and live on for many years.  Enjoy the ride!

[CK]

I friend just pointed me to this article about H-D considering moving the Milwaukee plant.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/top-stocks/blog.aspx?post=1789378&_blg=1,1789378

[sugarbear20]

Just read this    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100804/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_milwaukee_breakup

[nidan]

The end of an era .. damn shame

[CVOJOE]

If not off-shore, or Mexico, maybe down Kentucky, Missippi, or Carolinas and no doubt they'll be looking to get away from union labor force. Sad situation.
 

[moscooter]

 
Getting away from union country is (exactly) what they need to do......although it may be too late given current economic activity and the Yomama administration and their planned end to tax cuts, etc.

Look at Detroit,  it's trashed now and union demands and unsustainable perks took GM and Chrysler right down the drain.......Milwaukee will survive if HD leaves,  but they should know where to point the finger for why it happened.

[grc]

Multimillion dollar pay and perks up the wazoo for the executives are perfectly acceptable, but decent pay and benefits for the working stiff is somehow causing the downfall of America?  I don't think so.  The middle class worker created the economy that was the envy of the world, and the privileged few are destroying it quite rapidly thanks to the "greed is good" philosophy and the morons in Washington who let it happen.

H-D management is looking out strictly for H-D management.  Just like at York, if they can intimidate the folks in Milwaukee into giving up everything they've worked for over the past 30 years then management can just pat themselves on the back as they increase their own pay and benefits.  And don't forget, their ultimatums at York and now in Milwaukee also included targeting the local politicians, as in give us all kinds of abatements and other goodies or we'll leave your economy high and dry.  So not only are the union workers getting the shaft, the local taxpayers who have to make up the difference will also get to grab their ankles.  Harley has a history of expecting others to fix their self induced problems.  Look at the 1980's for instance.  Can't build a competitive product, so talk the government into slapping import duties on the much better bikes from overseas.  Didn't help the quality of the bikes, but it cost those of us who bought bikes from other companies that actually had a clue a lot of extra money.

As far as I'm concerned they can take their greedy no quality butts over to China.  And not just manufacturing but the whole corporation.  That way they could save on the shipping costs for all the cheap Chinese parts, and they would have a huge domestic market that is used to getting junk for products.  Should be a perfect match.


Jerry