Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[cvobiker]

I can't believe this case would even make it to the courts....


http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/16/4126504/contentious-motorcycle-accident.html

[dayne66]

...how 'bout no airbags

[grandpadoc]

I have a friend that bought a used late model FLH with CVO tins that didn't have ABS. I guess the dealer took it in on trade and "didn't notice" and initially refused to take the bike back. It got settled, but not without a lot of b.s. from the dealer. My bike has a alarm icon on the speedo, but was never equiped with one.  Doc

[T-Hawk]

While I'll never be able to claim I've read my owners manual 100% word for word... I do remember reading about the fact that some of the functions depicted in the many descriptions of the equipment, may not be included/installed with my particular bike.

After 12,000 miles... you had better know your ride... I'll go as far as to say after 100 miles even.

Sounds like a 'rookie' error in brake application... especially if he paniced and released the rear brake, after the rear had come out of alignment with the direction of travel (most likely).

It's sad that there were serious injuries involved with the accident... but this sounds more like operater error, and not manufacture defect.

The smallest Harley I know of weighs in at or a bit over 600lbs... not my choice of First bike.  Learn to ride before you step up to a different weight class... worked well for me.

[grc]

I can't believe this case would even make it to the courts....


http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/16/4126504/contentious-motorcycle-accident.html

Unfortunately our legal system doesn't recognize common sense, so we get tons of stupid lawsuits filed every year that clog the system and waste tons of money.  If you think this particular case is bad, I could tell you about many many more from my years in the auto industry that make this one look reasonable.  It's this sort of thing that causes all those stupid warning labels to be plastered all over our new vehicles and other consumer products, and the equally stupid warnings in every other paragraph in owner manuals.  Sadly, no one seems to think they are responsible for learning how to use anything properly, but they think the manufacturer's should be able to forsee all the stupid stuff folks could ever do with their products.

If you buy the logic these folks are trying to pawn off, namely that because there is an ABS light (nonfunctional) made into the instrument face it made them think they had ABS, then I suggest everyone get out their flashlights and check out all the items on their instrument clusters in their cars and trucks and sue over every one of them that is for an optional system that isn't installed on their particular vehicle.  We could clog up the courts for the next 50 years with this BS alone.  It has been standard procedure for decades to include optional system indicator lights in all clusters so that we didn't need to have dozens of different clusters.  If the system wasn't installed, the light didn't operate at key on or at any other time.  If the customer actually read the manual, they would know that.  Our legal system doesn't require customers to read the instructions, however.

Sadly, we all wind up paying for these frivolous lawsuits in the prices we pay for products.  Unfortunately, we can't seem to legislate individual responsibility or minimum intelligence requirements for the operation of potentially dangerous products.  I'll bet this particular case will be settled for a pile of dollars, just like many other similar cases, and the costs will just be passed along to the rest of us.  It's the American way.


Jerry

[2018_FLTRXSE]

You ever notice the "smarter" they make vehicles, the "dumber" the operators become? 

[GregKhougaz]

     They keep trying to make vehicles "idiot proof" but they keep allowing idiots to drive.  The article states the case is at the closing argument stage so we should have a result soon.....     Let's stay tuned. 

[grayghost731]

You ever notice the "smarter" they make vehicles, the "dumber" the operators become? 

I do NOTICE 

[2018_FLTRXSE]

     They keep trying to make vehicles "idiot proof" but they keep allowing idiots to drive.  The article states the case is at the closing argument stage so we should have a result soon.....     Let's stay tuned. 

No such thing as idiot proof.. the idiots are too smart.... (They all have degrees in BS)

[Midnight Rider]

Like the man says, "You can't fix stoopid".

The only point I read that might make some difference is whether the salesperson actually told the guy that the bike had ABS brakes.  That would likely be hard to prove, but I would not be surprised in the least to know that a salesperson at any given HD dealership had no clue how the bike was actually equipped.

Still no excuse for the owner not to know, regardless, and the whole "it's got an ABS light (even though it never actually lit up)" is absurd.  I guess it never dawned on the guy to actually TEST the ABS system on the bike to see how it felt when activated.

The sad part is that the woman is f'd up for the rest of her life.  No matter what, that's bad.

[JCZ]

     They keep trying to make vehicles "idiot proof" but they keep allowing idiots to drive.  The article states the case is at the closing argument stage so we should have a result soon.....     Let's stay tuned. 

Yer honor.......I object!  The statement submitted by counselor is non factual and irrelevant at this point.  I submit the factual statements of record:


"Judge Alan G. Perkins sent the jury into deliberations after the incendiary exchange, and it's now the panel's job to determine if Harley-Davidson of Sacramento was negligent in selling the Wilsons the bike and whether the Harley-Davidson Motor Co.'s product bore a design defect in the form of the "ABS" icon."

 

Just funnin with you Greg...bein an attorney and all.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Yer honor.......I object!  The statement submitted by counselor is non factual and irrelevant at this point.  I submit the factual statements of record:


"Judge Alan G. Perkins sent the jury into deliberations after the incendiary exchange, and it's now the panel's job to determine if Harley-Davidson of Sacramento was negligent in selling the Wilsons the bike and whether the Harley-Davidson Motor Co.'s product bore a design defect in the form of the "ABS" icon."

 

Just funnin with you Greg...bein an attorney and all.

How is the dealer negligent in selling the owner a bike?.... no one does door to door motorcycle sales!

AFAIK a potential customer walks in the door (or inquires on-line) and that opens the door for communication.

You sit on it, play touchy-feely with it, decide if you want it or not and make the best deal you can, with all the stuff you want and ride it home.... (or wait for paperwork to be done and prep)

[tazmun]

 I remember years ago some guy with and FLH got into an
accident, slid up the tank and lost his "personals".
He sued HD, because of the ignition switch took them out,
and he won!!!! From what I heard, he turned around and
bought another FLH! Go figure.

[Wild Card]

How is the dealer negligent in selling the owner a bike?....

The negligence refers to the presumption that the dealer made misleading statements about the bike coming equipped with ABS ("chicks love ABS, etc...). 

[GregKhougaz]

Agreed JC.  Never did personal injury and don't practice now.  This is not so much a case as a lottery.  With $millions at stake, the lawyer has not much to lose and a great deal to gain if he can sucker an ignorant jury into feeling sorry for the woman.  The boyfriend / rider is obviously 100% at fault.  Eager to see how it plays out...  

BTW, there is no "presumption" the dealer said anything.  That was the testimony of the boyfriend.

[JCZ]

How is the dealer negligent in selling the owner a bike?.... no one does door to door motorcycle sales!

AFAIK a potential customer walks in the door (or inquires on-line) and that opens the door for communication.

You sit on it, play touchy-feely with it, decide if you want it or not and make the best deal you can, with all the stuff you want and ride it home.... (or wait for paperwork to be done and prep)

You quoted my post.  So......your first question can be answered by your counselor (attorney of record) of which there are a number of them on this forum that will be happy to take your money to answer that question.

The rest of my post was in jest, poking fun at Greg for missing a detail in the article, since he's an attorney.  Just twisted humor but keep coming back.

[JCZ]

Agreed JC.  Never did personal injury and don't practice now.  This is not so much a case as a lottery.  With $millions at stake, the lawyer has not much to lose and a great deal to gain if he can sucker an ignorant jury into feeling sorry for the woman.  The boyfriend / rider is obviously 100% at fault.  Eager to see how it plays out...  

BTW, there is no "presumption" the dealer said anything.  That was the testimony of the boyfriend.

Right, but then isn't most civil suits?
 
I know you no longer practice....was just funnin with you.  Hope you were chuckling along with me.

Knowing what society's general opinion and views of motorcycles and motorcyclists, I'm thinking the dealership and the MoCo are going to pay........to the woman.  The rider/owner not so much.

Two days of closing arguments......I can't help but wonder how long the trial was.  Of course the jury is still out on this one but has me just a bit curious to.

[grandpadoc]

So if my bike has a alarm icon thingy on the speedo and it didn't come with a alarm system installed, when it gets stolen...I get a new bike from the MoCo. This should be interesting    Doc

[mjb765]

I remember years ago some guy with and FLH got into an
accident, slid up the tank and lost his "personals".
He sued HD, because of the ignition switch took them out,
and he won!!!! From what I heard, he turned around and
bought another FLH! Go figure.

At least it can't happen again!

[BUCKNUT GREG]

At least it can't happen again!

Nope ... But that would make Him and the whole drama a B***H 

[porthole]

I don't see how the defense attorney hopes to win by not winning the jury. Reading what was in the article I think would tend to turn people against him.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

I know common sense doesnt apply in a court of law.. but a court of law should not be a court of stupids.

The operator of a motorcycle is responsible for himself, as well as his passenger, not even considering being mindful of the idiot cagers who are engrosed in makeup, papers, electronic devices, etc....

Unless his sales documents indicate he bought a bike with ABS and he had a bike without, I hardly see the responsibility the dealer has beyond the sale.

With that, a Motorcyclist that rode a bike for 12,000 miles and never used the ABS prior?.... (And was using the REAR brake at time of the incident)

Sounds like an inexperienced rider without the basic riding skills... Locked up the rear by panicking and as a result, tossed his passenger into the pavement.

never mind.. thats common sense and skills of observation speaking.. noe of those apply in court.

And as for the guy who lost his equipment.... then went out ands bought the same bike?.... DUH

[cvobiker]

I remember years ago some guy with and FLH got into an
accident, slid up the tank and lost his "personals".
He sued HD, because of the ignition switch took them out,
and he won!!!! From what I heard, he turned around and
bought another FLH! Go figure.

did he buy a Pink one  

[BBNITRO]

does anyone take the blame for there own actions anymore always someone elses fault and lets sue thats crap as far as im concerned does not have to say hot on the outside of coffee cup for me to know that its hot

[JCZ]

does anyone take the blame for there own actions anymore always someone elses fault and lets sue thats crap as far as im concerned does not have to say hot on the outside of coffee cup for me to know that its hot

Nope......standard operating excuse....."it's always Gary's fault".   

[99c5pilot]

Damn attorneys contact these people and brain wash them that its their god given right to sue people or manufactures. I know people that have sued but only when an attorney contacted them and convinced them that they were somehow wronged.....

[JCZ]

This thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own. 

We don't have any facts other than what some newspaper writer penciled out in a couple of minutes to beat the presses.  Nobody set in the courtroom or in the jury box to hear the case yet nearly all the posts have arm chair tried the case, formed an opnion and handed down unsubstantiated claims.

How about letting the jury do their job?  Nawww......arm chair quarterbacking off a little newspaper article is much more entertaining.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

This thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own. 

We don't have any facts other than what some newspaper writer penciled out in a couple of minutes to beat the presses.  Nobody set in the courtroom or in the jury box to hear the case yet nearly all the posts have arm chair tried the case, formed an opnion and handed down unsubstantiated claims.

How about letting the jury do their job?  Nawww......arm chair quarterbacking off a little newspaper article is much more entertaining.

Its more fun this way and ... you can be positive there are no experienced motorcyclists on the jury.

[hogasm]

Lady spills hot coffee in her lap and sues McDonalds....coffee too hot

Man leaves seat of motorhome while driving down road to make a PPJ sandwich.....no warning sticker about leaving seat while underway

Woman sues gun shop owner after being shot for selling another woman, who was having an affair with first womans husband,.......

No wonder everything costs so much in the USA.....go to court in china.....end up missing

[99c5pilot]

Great post Hogasm and I agree with you! Too many frivoulus lawsuits that we spend our money on that a jury has turned down. We don't see those but the ones you list here somehow made it through a jury.

[grandpadoc]

After our Ohio mishap, there were lawyer packets delivered to the house before we even got home.  Doc 

[grc]

The problem as I see it is that the actual legal professionals, the lawyers and judges who should know better, don't police themselves.  Surf the TV cable channels all day long and you'll see constant advertising by the ambulance chasers and proponents of the "life is a lottery, let us help you collect your fair share (and ours)" types.  Suing those with deep pockets, or just threatening to do so to elicit hefty settlements, is very big business and a sort of blood sport in this country.  In many ways what these folks do is legalized extortion, since they take cases with the only intention being to get the companies involved to buy them off with a quick settlement rather than have to waste time, money, and resources to fight them.  If I as regular Joe were to use the same tactics that many of these folks use, I'd instantly run afoul of all sorts of local, state, and federal laws.  Somehow getting a JD instead of a BS or MA or PhD makes it possible to get away with all sorts of things that would land the rest of us in jail. 

Export lawyers, not manufacturing jobs!   Just a thought.


Jerry

[GregKhougaz]

       While I agree with Jerry about ambulance chasers, I contend he is missing the root of the problem.  Lawyers are ethically bound to represent the interests of their clients regardless of personal feelings.  If the law allows the claim and lawyer takes the case he must represent the client to the best of his or her ability.  The lawyer is in business.  He takes a case, especially a contingency matter, hoping to make money.  It is for the judge and jury, not a lawyer, to ultimately decide the merits of any particular case.  Blame the plaintiffs in this case and in nearly all cases like it.  No matter what the dealer said about ABS, no matter what the rider thought about ABS, he completely screwed up.  The ex girlfriend knows that.  She is responsible for her own lawsuit.  The lawyer merely facilitates it.  To blame the lawyer and not the plaintiff is like blaming wall street for the people who made loans they knew they could not afford then defaulted.  The root of the problem is a lack of personal responsibility and society's "victim" mentality.

Greg Khougaz

[mastergunnera8]

I got back into riding this year, after a 30 year hiatus and took a riders course. My ride has ABS and I know its turned on because it scared the crap out of me a few times. It does it usually when I am braking hard, heavy on the front brake (dependng on conditions), and I go over a bump...the front end chatters like crazy...Have to remember to keep the bike upright when under hard braking...wouldnrt want to know what happens if I was leaning and this happened...After the first time I went to a parking lot and practiced emergency braking...it takes some getting used to.

I had a dirt bike background and know about laterally moving the rear wheel with power/braking/surface conditions...this bike is way different...I am suprised the plaintiff isnt sueing the rider/ex-boyfriend..if course the dealer has deeper pockets most likely...

I am sure that the rider was not paying attention and got surprised ABS probably wouldnt have made a difference... I am intersted to know what she was wearing on her noggin also...

[cvobiker]

I am intersted to know what she was wearing on her noggin also...

Im curious about that too. Beenies are illegal in california, so if she was wearing one, she should be responsible for her own injures and if the case imagine the money her health insurance is out of... 

[Midnight Rider]

I started to use the McDonald's case with the hot coffee as a comparison to this one...until I actually read about the McDonalds case rather than just going on the opinion I formed from the sound bites on TV and the news of various sorts.  If you read the actual facts of the case, what the woman was actually asking for initially, what McDonalds offered her, and at what temperature McDonalds USED to serve their coffee, you gain a different perspective.

It seems, on the surface at least, that this ABS case is rediculous, but things are not always as they appear.  It appears that the dumb azz guy was not familiar enough with his own bike to react appropriately in a panic situation.

But it's more fun to speculate...

[grc]

I started to use the McDonald's case with the hot coffee as a comparison to this one...until I actually read about the McDonalds case rather than just going on the opinion I formed from the sound bites on TV and the news of various sorts.  If you read the actual facts of the case, what the woman was actually asking for initially, what McDonalds offered her, and at what temperature McDonalds USED to serve their coffee, you gain a different perspective.

It seems, on the surface at least, that this ABS case is rediculous, but things are not always as they appear.  It appears that the dumb azz guy was not familiar enough with his own bike to react appropriately in a panic situation.

But it's more fun to speculate...

These days it's what makes the world go 'round Terry.  Without mindless speculation devoid of factual data, many of the various and sundry blogs that litter the ether would dry up, huge chunks of the feedback on various "news" sites and places like YouTube would disappear, tons of publications and TV shows would cease to exist, etc.  Mindless speculation actually helps the economy, in that it keeps a lot of folks employed and a lot of other folks entertained.  As we continue our journey toward not actually producing anything of substance in this country, anything that provides jobs and entertainment is better than nothing.  

No matter how hot McDonald's served their coffee, btw, any idiot who sticks a coffee cup between their legs rather than in a real cup holder while driving doesn't need to look anywhere but the mirror when it comes time to assess blame.  Yes, 200+ degrees is a bit over the top, but of course the coffee maker at home runs at temps in the 180-200 degree range as well.  If they served you lukewarm coffee as a safety measure, how long would you continue to buy their coffee?  Who would she have sued if she dumped the coffee from her home coffee maker in her crotch, the folks from Mr. Coffee?  I still say, unless you specifically order iced coffee, anyone with an IQ over 50 should know that coffee is served hot.  And anyone riding a motorcycle should learn the basics of actually riding, including the proper way to brake.  If it hadn't been the ABS claim, how much do you want to bet that the client and the attorney wouldn't just find another "defect" to blame or another deep pocket to sue?  The passenger is screwed up through no fault of her own, and a typical jury will find her a very sympathetic plaintiff.  Suing her hubby/boyfriend for the millions her care might cost isn't likely to produce a great outcome for her, so no matter who is at fault the answer is to find some deep pockets to pay the bills.  Juries fall for this all the time, and like I said before the rest of us pay the price when we buy products from those with the deep pockets.  All so the guy who lost control through his own mistake can avoid the financial and emotional pain of admitting he f$%*ed up.  My question is, with more and more people refusing to accept responsibility for their own mistakes, and the legal system enabling them by shifting the burden to whoever has the deepest pockets, how long can we continue this way before this house of cards falls down as well?


Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

Not long, Jerry...

Just for the sake of discussion...the coffee maker in your home produces coffee in the 140-160 range.  But, you are pretty much drinking it right after the fact.  A drive through, and a POLICY, is a different matter. The woman probably did not deserve what she got...but that's not what she originally asked for either...20K is a long way from 600K +.  Lawyers got into the mix, and that changes everything.  I just Googled the stuff about the case, and got enlightened, to some extent...and I know from being severly burned myself, that certain temps increase the risk a lot.  But, I didn't sue anyone, because chit happens, and I learned something from it.

I'm not saying that it's right, by any means, to sue over chit like this.  Had I been burned by coffee, or wrecked someone's life by my own stupidity from not knowing how my own f'ing motorcycle worked, I'd chalk it up to my being a dim wit.  But the dim wits in the world don't know they're dim wits, and so what results is this kind of crap.  Solutions?  There are none.  Society, regardless, does not regress, until some catastophic event.

 

[iski]

Well, if the idiot Ezy Rydyr wreck guy had not been drinking & spilling his waaay too hot McDonalds coffee when he had the wreck on his bike with no ABS (even though there is no evidence, provided by Perry Mason, that ABS would have prevented said wreck) while his girlfriend illegally chatted on her cell phone distracting him by talking about a nail appointment, he might have noticed he was going too forking fast for his inability to effectively & safely ride a 2 wheeled motosickle, even though he had watched the movie Easy Rider 3 times.  McDonalds, the MoCo, the dealer, Peter Fonda, Perry Mason, the place he bought gas, his mother, and the guy standing on the side of the road that saw it all happen could be sued to oblivion, for not warning him that when you spill too hot coffee in your lap while riding a motosickle with no ABS even though you may think it has ABS but does not, you might still have a wreck if you do not keep your head out of your ass when riding it.  That also implicates his Proctologist...


Geez louise, let's blame everyone everywhere for anything & everything for all the stupid crap we do to our own selves...  



However, the thread is somewhat entertaining, I give it a 6 but the beat is a little hard to dance to.

[miker]

I have nothing to add to this thread....

[Twolanerider]

I have nothing to add to this thread....

Me either.

[grandpadoc]

OK, here it goes...In my experience I know in some cases (motorcycle accidents) the lawyers are in bed with the insurance companies, its all a big act.  Lou

[B.A.]

I remember years ago some guy with and FLH got into an
accident, slid up the tank and lost his "personals".
He sued HD, because of the ignition switch took them out,
and he won!!!! From what I heard, he turned around and
bought another FLH! Go figure.

Yeah.  If he had any balls he wudda bought an FLTR! 

[JCZ]

The results are in......the rider and passenger lost the suit.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/19/4133561/woman-hurt-in-2009-crash-loses.html   

[Midnight Rider]

The results are in......the rider and passenger lost the suit.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/19/4133561/woman-hurt-in-2009-crash-loses.html   

 

[2018_FLTRXSE]

YEP....

 

[GregKhougaz]

Once in awhile, the system works.

[cvobiker]

The results are in......the rider and passenger lost the suit.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/19/4133561/woman-hurt-in-2009-crash-loses.html   

Stupid once, stupid always,, she turned down a pre-trial offer of $900,000 from Harley,,,.. In this case she got exactly what she deserves... ' nada'.   But she will end up with Social Security ,,,, 

[grc]

Stupid once, stupid always,, she turned down a pre-trial offer of $900,000 from Harley,,,.. In this case she got exactly what she deserves... ' nada'.   But she will end up with Social Security ,,,, 

That's the lottery mentality our system has spawned. 

I feel sorry for her plight, since it wasn't her fault unless you count riding with a guy who can't control his motorcycle, but I'm very happy (and surprised) to see that at least one jury didn't fall for the sympathy deal and just hand over a bunch of OPM (other people's money) like so many others have done.  Maybe there is a little hope for the system after alll.


Jerry

[Twolanerider]

If they really got a $900k offer pre-trial have to wonder how much blame goes to a greedy counsel who should have strongly recommended accepting the offer.  That was take-the-money-and-run time.

[MAT]

If they really got a $900k offer pre-trial have to wonder how much blame goes to a greedy counsel who should have strongly recommended accepting the offer.  That was take-the-money-and-run time.

Absolutely Agree !

[Midnight Rider]

If they really got a $900k offer pre-trial have to wonder how much blame goes to a greedy counsel who should have strongly recommended accepting the offer.  That was take-the-money-and-run time.

Yea, pretty dumb...even though the lawyer would have gotten at least 300K of it, I would have snatched their arm off getting the money.

[harley56]

If they really got a $900k offer pre-trial have to wonder how much blame goes to a greedy counsel who should have strongly recommended accepting the offer.  That was take-the-money-and-run time.

Just to clarify.  Her counsel wanted $900K.  Harley and dealer declined the offer - good for them.

[Twolanerider]

Just to clarify.  Her counsel wanted $900K.  Harley and dealer declined the offer - good for them.

It seemed patently unlikely that Mother Harley would have made a nearly $1M settlement offer pre-trial given the circumstances described.  But that was what was stated earlier; and it's not like Harley has always been the smartest board in the shed.

[Hotrod50]

Lady spills hot coffee in her lap and sues McDonalds....coffee too hot

Man leaves seat of motorhome while driving down road to make a PPJ sandwich.....no warning sticker about leaving seat while underway

Woman sues gun shop owner after being shot for selling another woman, who was having an affair with first womans husband,.......

No wonder everything costs so much in the USA.....go to court in china.....end up missing

There's always more to the story.  In the case of the McDonald's hot coffee "frivolus" law suit, there were other factors.  The manufacturer of the machines had sent McDonald's numerous warnings that they were setting the temperature way to high.  Also the woman had serious injuries.  She had severe burns and had hundreds of thousands in numerous reconstructive surgery to her genitals.  It wasn't a simple spilled coffee case with no injury.  Not saying mother ship is at fault in this case, but there is always more to the story.   The abs light on my 09 FLTRSE3 has been on since my bike was new.  Dealer can't find anything wrong and resets it, but it always re-appears.   If I end up having a crash that is brake failure related, I'll ask some questions.

[grc]

There's always more to the story.  In the case of the McDonald's hot coffee "frivolus" law suit, there were other factors.  The manufacturer of the machines had sent McDonald's numerous warnings that they were setting the temperature way to high.  Also the woman had serious injuries.  She had severe burns and had hundreds of thousands in numerous reconstructive surgery to her genitals.  It wasn't a simple spilled coffee case with no injury.  Not saying mother ship is at fault in this case, but there is always more to the story.   The abs light on my 09 FLTRSE3 has been on since my bike was new.  Dealer can't find anything wrong and resets it, but it always re-appears.   If I end up having a crash that is brake failure related, I'll ask some questions.

Excuse me, but if you go back and read your comment as if you were one of the rest of us I hope you can understand why I'm making this post.  The time to ask some serious questions and demand action is NOW, not after you crash.  If the light is on the system is compromised by definition.  The fact your dealership is incompetent doesn't make it OK to just accept the BS answers and ride away with a defective braking system.  If you don't escalate this beyond those local idiots and you do wind up having a crash caused by the problem, you might have some explaining to do (assuming you survive that crash) right alongside that dealer and the MoCo when you get to court.  If you are aware of the problem and just continue to use the product, you are just as liable as the dealer and manufacturer for any loss or injury you suffer.


Jerry

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Excuse me, but if you go back and read your comment as if you were one of the rest of us I hope you can understand why I'm making this post.  The time to ask some serious questions and demand action is NOW, not after you crash.  If the light is on the system is compromised by definition.  The fact your dealership is incompetent doesn't make it OK to just accept the BS answers and ride away with a defective braking system.  If you don't escalate this beyond those local idiots and you do wind up having a crash caused by the problem, you might have some explaining to do (assuming you survive that crash) right alongside that dealer and the MoCo when you get to court.  If you are aware of the problem and just continue to use the product, you are just as liable as the dealer and manufacturer for any loss or injury you suffer.


Jerry

FYI.. took my dealer a couple attempts at fixing mine.... they eventually found a severed wire inside the insulation that was causing an intermittant open in the circuit...

Definetely have SOMEONE fix it... or you'll be asked the question: Sir, you saw the ABS light illuminated while riding... what did you do to correct the problem?

[DDavidson]

Lady spills hot coffee in her lap and sues McDonalds....coffee too hot

Part of the story I also heard was that McDonalds saves lots of cash each day by having their coffee set this hot.  Coffee supposedly lasts longer and they don't have to pore out old coffee to make fresh as often.  Sounds to me that a business decision was made to put people at risk to make money. (Was it the gas tanks on Pintos or Vegas that the manufacturer decided it was cheaper to pay lawsuits instead of fixing the problem of gas tanks exploding in rear-end collisions. Used to have people crying about businesses using the courts to cover their asses when consumers were being injured or killed.)

A jury of our peers decided the case of where the grandson who drove his car to the parking space where his passenger grandmother spilled the coffee. The jury deciding the lawsuit was better than the grandson going into McDonalds and shooting the manager. We don't get to shoot people we don't like because we are a civil society with courts and laws.

Sounds like some are saying that we don't need lawyers because we can trust the citizens, insurance companies and businesses to always do right by us.

A lawsuit allows a party to legally get factual information from another party. This allowed the plaintiff to get all the information about the ABS from Harley. (Or do we just suppose they are a bunch of good ole boys that will supply us everything if we just call their 800 number and politely ask for it.) 

I've been on three jury trials, one criminal and two civil and have also sued. I have full respect for our judicial system, including judges and lawyers.

Cases don't always turn out the way I like but I accept it because it's a good process. And I hate it when politicians pull the wool over the public's eyes with lawsuit stories like "Man steals motorcycle, crashes, sues owner." These suits were filed but were kicked out by judges as being frivolous. The politicians would have you believe these cases went to court and all lawsuits are scrupulous and we need to change the constitution because we have ambulance chasing lawyers running amuck.

I also hear people make statements like "Hit me, I'll sue and own your ass!" Don't believe that statement. Be lucky if you get your medical, work losses and property costs reimbursed. Pain and suffering, and future medical expenses are a luxury and hard to win. (At least in California)

In California you have to go to arbitration before the courts and there are conditions set for court fees and lawyer costs for the person who loses in court versus taking an agreement in arbitration.

So in the ABS case the loser most likely pays for the court fees and Harley's legal fees if they disagreed with an arbitration settlement and went to court.

[HUBBARD]

A lawsuit allows a party to legally get factual information from another party.  

I've been on three jury trials, one criminal and two civil and have also sued. I have full respect for our judicial system, including judges and lawyers.

I also hear people make statements like "Hit me, I'll sue and own your ass!" Don't believe that statement. Be lucky if you get your medical, work losses and property costs reimbursed. Pain and suffering, and future medical expenses are a luxury and hard to win. (At least in California)

Not to take your statements out of context DDAVIDSON, but you would be singing a much different tune, were you familiar with the Judicial System in West Virginia.  Research it.  Later--HUBBARD

[Midnight Rider]

For all of it's faults, it's still better than being somewhere else.  We live in a great country, despite it's warts.

[Boxman88]

Their is finally a jury that will not just pay out because the feel bad for someone. HD did nothing wrong. Accidents do happen but it's the the manufacture or dealers fault. Good job Jury in Sacramento.

[grayghost731]

For all of it's faults, it's still better than being somewhere else.  We live in a great country, despite it's warts.

Thats a FACT